ourmanflint
Footballguy
I think it's RGIII. I smell serious dysfunction in the coach/QB relationship. Did you see Gruden's face coming off the field after the concussion? He looks like he hates the guy.
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Official Robert Griffin III - RGIII RG3 (2 Viewers)
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MattFancy
Footballguy
I thought I was the only one that noticed Gruden had a bit of a smirk on his face then. It certainly looks like Gruden has set up RG3 to fail so far this preseason.
MattFancy
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Last night may have been RG3's swan song.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
It's hard to read the defense when your OL is getting pushed back into you right off the snap.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/8/20/9185611/robert-griffin-iii-washington-jay-gruden-preseason-injury-offensive-line
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Shutout
Footballguy
That might be conspiracy theory but I also might be willing to buy it. I don't watch a lot of the Redskins but it seemed to me when that game started, the Lions knew those plays better than the Redskins did and they just crashed on him relentlessly. Then McCoy and Cousins comes in and it its like both teams act completely different.
Obviously, could just be the difference between the talent of the 1st and 2nd stringers on each team
BUT
we all know the story on RG III and I think if you're a coach that really is trying to rebuild a player and keep him healthy and restore his confidence, I think you might just say "RG III IS our QB but we are going to start one of the other guys tonight because we want to nail down our backup spot and Detroit is a great test for that." That way, he's out of harms way, you give their rookie o-lineman some valuable time without putting RG in harms way and you DO get a chance to see if McCoy or Cousins is your better backup plan.
The way they are going about it now, it's like looking at Wes Welker and all those concussions and saying "Let's game plan to send Wes on nothing but crossing patterns across the LBers and safeties next game...all game...every play.
The joke will eventually be on Gruden though because he has nothing better than what a healthy and confident RG III could do and he will lose his job.
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(HULK)
(Smash)
I'm done making excuses for the guy. He can't execute.
Did the first time line play awful last night? Yup. Did RG do anything to read the blitzes pre-snap? Nope. Did he get so jittery that he fumbled without being touched and then got injured? Yup.
We wasted 3 first rounders and a 2nd on this guy. He'll never work out. I'm ready to move on.
Warpig
Footballguy
Exactly. It's hard to support the guy if he's not smart enough to audible into a quick pass or something. Coach be damned! If I see the defense salivating with the blitz, I'm audibling, going to shotgun, and throwing a slant or screen. I'm concerned with my health before I am the game plan...especially if the play called is ignorant.
But RGIII isn't smart enough to get out of his own way. He's done. And Gruden should be done too.
Shutout
Footballguy
I agree with you guys but what you are suggesting is that he goes against the coaches orders and if he does that Gruden benches him with cause and he's done. It is a bit of a no-win. You guys probably know better than I do because you follow the Redskins closer but does the local fanbase ever cry out asking how come Gruden runs this offense the way they do? Do they not call for more quick hits or shotgun or max protect or anything different?
It seems to me every time I watch the Redskins they come out with about as little protection for a QB as any team I can remember.
Swing 51
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Blitzes? First sack was a straight up bull rush. Only one of those hits was a blitz (levy), and he got the ball out.
I just finished watching the first half and can now easily understand where the conspiracy theory comes from. Don't think any QB would have had a chance on those first 4 series. I can't recall the last time I watched a QB have this little time from snap to release. It did indeed almost look like the two lines conspired. How any objective observer can conclude anything about Griffin being bad or improved from these 4 series, is beyond me.
The 'audible' argument above is funny. Surely you must also apply those to, say, Brady and Manning when they get under pressure. So what audibles would you have called? Dump-offs? On most plays Griffin doesn't have time for a check-down. It also is unlikely to change the outcome, unless he gives his RB time to move further out of the pocket - and by then he is hit or sacked already. Or maybe you would audible to run plays? When staring at 9 in the box? Griffin does the right thing an NFL QB should do - he trusts his line to hold up long enough to let a play develop. Anything else would rightfully be deemed immature.
On a very different note - anyone else notice Griffin's demeanor after succumbing to each pressure? Quite a novel sight from him....almost like he expected to get beat up. Last year he was all petulant when he got sacked. This game he seems almost Brady-esque in the patience with which he takes the beating. Bizarre.
EDIT: Now that I have gone through the whole thing, I wonder if any of the Cousins' fans here actually watched the game. What did you see that made you like him so much? Cause it's pretty clear he was operating in practically the opposite circumstances. On most throws probably has 2x-3x the average time from snap to release.
The 'audible' argument above is funny. Surely you must also apply those to, say, Brady and Manning when they get under pressure. So what audibles would you have called? Dump-offs? On most plays Griffin doesn't have time for a check-down. It also is unlikely to change the outcome, unless he gives his RB time to move further out of the pocket - and by then he is hit or sacked already. Or maybe you would audible to run plays? When staring at 9 in the box? Griffin does the right thing an NFL QB should do - he trusts his line to hold up long enough to let a play develop. Anything else would rightfully be deemed immature.
On a very different note - anyone else notice Griffin's demeanor after succumbing to each pressure? Quite a novel sight from him....almost like he expected to get beat up. Last year he was all petulant when he got sacked. This game he seems almost Brady-esque in the patience with which he takes the beating. Bizarre.
EDIT: Now that I have gone through the whole thing, I wonder if any of the Cousins' fans here actually watched the game. What did you see that made you like him so much? Cause it's pretty clear he was operating in practically the opposite circumstances. On most throws probably has 2x-3x the average time from snap to release.
He's also going to get killed against a starting defense without significantly improved line play.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Not one QB in the league could have played well behind the 1st team OL last night. Pressure was getting to Griffin on some plays before WRs got off the line.
It was disgustingly bad. The offensieve line is going to get every QB killed this year.
GoBirds
Footballguy
That #1 pick on the OL is a turnstile. RG3 is still a joke, the play he got hurt on was all his fault. Love that the Skins are wasting another year with him and Gruden.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Coaches don't want a QB to stick with the called play no matter what. At least good coaches don't. They call the best play they think will work in a given situation and then want the QB to decide if that play will work against the D in front of him. It's up to the QB to read the D and make adjustments. If he can not make those reads and make adjustments then he is not a good QB.
Shutout
Footballguy
Well, you did say "a good coach".
Again, this is a bit tongue in cheek with me because I'm not standing on a soap box crying conspiracy but I know there are things you can do that helps your QB if you really want to and whether it is lack of ability or lack of want to, the Redskins don't seem to keen on doing those things for RG III.
I'm not apologizing for him or his shortcomings. I'm just participating in the conversation that some others have talked about this situation. Last night was bad. You have to think anybody who is worth having a job in the NFL as a coach simply MUST be aware and do something to make It better.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Scherff has not looked good and I'm a bit surprised. He's a very talented lineman. I'm hoping he's learning quickly because I hate to see my Iowa boys struggle in the NFL. I'm confident he'll be OK since most Iowa OL do well in the pros.
lod01
Footballguy
This.
How do you derive conclusions about Griffin from what we saw on the first four series? Brady and Manning would have done no better and likely gotten hurt earlier. I am also not apologizing for Griffin's shortcomings - just pointing to the obvious.
Griffin may not be a good QB, but watching this game did a lot to resurrect the notion that Gruden must either be completely inept as a coach, or is hell-bent on chasing Griffin out of town at all costs (and also believes he would get to stay and draft)
I know, I know, quite a conclusion to derive from half a pre-season game, but this is how inexplicable things looked. Or you can go with the theory of teammates sabotage.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I hope he's hell bent on chasing him out of town. He wouldn't be the first coach to want to do it.
Trade griffin to jets for like a 5th rounder and Bryce petty and end this ridiculous mess.
matuski
Footballguy
dschuler
Footballguy
The fanbase blamed Shanahan when RG III struggled with him. Some have wisened up and have come to the conclusion that RG III isn't going to work. Others just blame the next coach. But anyone who can't read a basic defense that a casual sports fan that will never be an elite quarterback. It's hilarious to just sit back and watch theShutout said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Poor dude is a deer in headlights. Its over for him
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
You get an A+ on this. Fact is both shanny and gruden have done a reasonable job with the other 50 players. But the combo of griffin and the owner is uncoachable.The fanbase blamed Shanahan when RG III struggled with him. Some have wisened up and have come to the conclusion that RG III isn't going to work. Others just blame the next coach. But anyone who can't read a basic defense that a casual sports fan that will never be an elite quarterback. It's hilarious to just sit back and watch theShutout said:
Really? Independent of RG3, I think both did/have done horrible jobs. Everything about this franchise is dysfunctional. I blame every single person in this melodrama, starting at the top with Snyder. I only hope McLoughlan can clean it up before the stink gets all over him as well.You get an A+ on this. Fact is both shanny and gruden have done a reasonable job with the other 50 players. But the combo of griffin and the owner is uncoachable.The fanbase blamed Shanahan when RG III struggled with him. Some have wisened up and have come to the conclusion that RG III isn't going to work. Others just blame the next coach. But anyone who can't read a basic defense that a casual sports fan that will never be an elite quarterback. It's hilarious to just sit back and watch theShutout said:
trader jake
Footballguy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
You're better off. Convinced he's done. At WAS or anywhere else. That's why I dropped him.
Faust
MVP
Robert Griffin III returns, expected to start vs. Ravens:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000515001/article/robert-griffin-iii-returns-expected-to-start-vs-ravens
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000515001/article/robert-griffin-iii-returns-expected-to-start-vs-ravens
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
It's not just the owner. It's not just griffin. It's the combo of the owner saying Griffin is his only guy. My guess is most coaches could deal with rg3 by benching him until he improved, which has been attenpted by 2 coaches. But if the owner puts him back in there, which it's obvious he did by the announcement in February (really, what coach would ever name a starter that wasn't performing well in February???) then it's uncooachable. Griffin has no reason to get better. He can stink and still have the starting job.
It's pretty clear gruden is stuck between a rock and a hard place and is struggling to deal with it. Maybe he signed up for that when he took the job. Probably did because he was the way to make Griffin a pocket QB, which Griffin wants. The problem is he isn't a pocket QB.
Gruen looks like shanny, and Gibbs 2, and spurrier, and turner. Beaten down by ownership and hoping for a buyout so he can get the hell out of here.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
You obviously have never been on any fan forums before. Have you ever heard Bears fans talk about Cutler? Almost every team has fans that hate their QB except for maybe a handful.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I think Griffin gets it way worse. The media and fans in DC can't seem to stand the guy anymore. I've seen Redskin fan posting RG3 Memes on FB. For a guy the entire city and fanbase loved in 2012, there's pretty much the complete opposite feeling now. Just seems crazy.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Oh, come on. Give RGIII some credit, no one can compare to Ryan Leaf and is 3-year-old-like temper tantrums.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I'm local to DC, but not a Skins fan. And I feel for RG3. I don't think he has performed well over all, and I don't know if he can. He has also said some things that didn't help his cause.
But damn, folks do seem to hate the guy. People say he is mentally soft, physically soft, dumb, lacks leadership, too arrogant, too much of a diva, etc. Is he arrogant? Sure he is, but no worse than the next QB really. He is certainly not dumb in a real-world way - he does seem to repeat mistakes, but he's a bright guy. He's gotten beaten up badly and I'm not surprised he's a little gunshy at this point. People think his confidence is squashed, but every time he suggests he can turn it around, he gets napalmed. These latest quotes about being the best were not well-thought out in terms of their expected reception or the way it was phrased, but they are EXACTLY what you WANT your QB to be thinking. I know I can play. I know I can be great. We can do this - just need to put the pieces together. There were better ways to answer those questions no doubt, but if some other mediocre QB says them, the headlines aren't as bad as they were for RG3.
I don't think he's loafing. He's not really making poor choices off the field. He seems to be a responsible guy for the most part - just trying to do his thing. If 2012 hadn't happened, I don't think folks would be as vicious as they are right now - he's a victim of his own early success to some degree. After the rookie season, he was put on such a pedestal that he had a very long fall afterward. Such a fall that some seemed to take it personally.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
he hasn't punched his fiance in the face, deflated ball, killed a dude for disrespecting him, didn't run over anyone and kill them with his car or beat his kid bloody with a switch ...
so in that regard RGIII has been successful
but his QB play is in the 30-35 range of QB's who play in the NFL every year - and that's not worth the money they pay him or the quality of football the WAS team can put forth ( Cousins plays better )
so in that regard RGIII has been successful
but his QB play is in the 30-35 range of QB's who play in the NFL every year - and that's not worth the money they pay him or the quality of football the WAS team can put forth ( Cousins plays better )
