What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

***Official "The Last Dance" The MJ/Chicago Bulls Dynasty 10 Part Mini-Series Thread*** (3 Viewers)

otb_lifer said:
... and promptly lost to Dirk and the no-names in the '11 Finals. 

in SIX games, mind you  :lmao:

>>> Before the season started, Westgate gave the Mavericks +2,000 odds to win the championship.

It’s almost laughable to picture a group with one All-Star go the distance in today’s league <<<

full article

... that doesn't happen to MJ. 

:coffee:
Click to expand...
How about the time Jordan lost back to back East finals to a bunch of 6’8 scrubs who would be playing their careers in Serbia if they were around in today’s game? 
 

You realize just because he went 6-0 in the finals that doesn’t mean he only played 6 playoff series yes?

 
Capella said:
How about the time Jordan lost back to back East finals to a bunch of 6’8 scrubs who would be playing their careers in Serbia if they were around in today’s game? 
 

You realize just because he went 6-0 in the finals that doesn’t mean he only played 6 playoff series yes?
Click to expand...
:lmao:

... and Montana got crushed in playoff losses to the Jints twice - guess his 4-0 record in the Super Bowl is rendered moot by this rationale  :lmao:

 
Capella said:
I don’t care at all. I love both and think they’re 1a and 1b and could argue both sides. But Lebron is definitely in some of your heads. 
Click to expand...
It's a 10 part documentary about Michael Jordan and the 97-98 Bulls team. The fact that you are in here arguing about LeBron shows who is in who's head, IMO. 

 
Lebron in the 80's/90's would not have been the lane driving 3-point machine of today. He would have been a low-post player because that's how players his size were coached. He wouldn't have spent his time learning to dribble and shoot from the outside. While it's not a great comparison, lots of people put ridiculous expectations on Len Bias when Boston drafted him, because he was so physically gifted.  For his position, he had what was considered great range because he could elevate high enough on his jumpers that they couldn't be blocked unless a 7 footer was guarding him.  My contention about Bias (I've mentioned in other places here that I went to his 'rival' HS and saw him play from his senior year there through all 4 years at Maryland) was that he wasn't good at putting the ball on the floor, something one has to do to drive to the hoop. Working on that skill was not enough of a priority to him,  in my estimation, because that wasn't a skill he needed.  In the same vein, Lebron could very well have been an improved Adrian Dantley, who caused matchup problems because he could use his size against smaller defenders, and his quickness against bigger ones.  To me, in the 80's and 90's, the big men that shot from the perimeter did so because they knew opposing big men wouldn't go out on the perimeter.

Whether he's physically gifted enough to do both well doesn't matter(though I dont' think it takes much 'talent' to run full steam at someone smaller); the way the game was coached and played at the time would have had him develop a different skill set, and due to his God-given talents, he would have been able to thrive, though probably not dominate like he does in his era.

:2cents:

 
Capella said:
I’m just responding to people bro 
Click to expand...
And it's worth noting that LeBron was first mentioned in this thread on page 1 by a poster who basically took the "no matter what LeBron does, he will never be as great as Mike!" stance.

 
Ghost Rider said:
And it's worth noting that LeBron was first mentioned in this thread on page 1 by a poster who basically took the "no matter what LeBron does, he will never be as great as Mike!" stance.
Click to expand...
I somehow am not seeing Cappy's reply to me. But it looks like he makes the same point as Ghost Rider above. Fair enough. At least the LeBron fans seem to be taking this documentary better than the Detroit fans. 

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Why is everyone so hung up on LeBron in a Jordan thread?
Click to expand...
It's what we do though GB.

It's why the political forum's pro Trump thread has so many people who don't support Trump in it. It's just life.

But especially with Sports we do this. 

It's Manning or Brady? That's fun. 

But what really gets fun is the different eras. Brady or Montana? Brady or Staubach? Brady or Unitas? That gets really complicated.

Jordan vs James is a great example of how this works too.

The physicality is a big difference. 

 
Lebron is the better role model.  I believe the next few episodes will show that. 
 

Other than that, I don’t see an area where Lebron is better than Jordan, unless we are just talking about his freak body type.

But to me, that’s just another check in the box for Jordan.  
 

I love Bron, and have always said that he has the potential to be the best player of all time.  I think he will end up coming just short, and that’s because he wasn’t as mentally tough as MJ.  That’s been proven a few times in his career.

MJ did as much as he possibly could.  Lebron has underachieved a bit. 

 
Lol at eight straight trips to the finals being underachieving. Unreal. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Although Jerry Krause did a good job of signing some free agent role players, his drafting during the dynasty years was, overall, pretty bad.  (Kukoc was the year before the first championship so I'm not counting him.)

The first round picks: Mark Randall (bust), Byron Houston (bust), Corie Blount (ended up decent but not for the Bulls), Dickey Simpkins (bust), Jason Caffey (decent pick, I guess), Travis Knight (he ended up a decent rebounder (IIRC) but the Bulls never signed him), Keith Booth (bust), Corey Benjamin (bust).

(Disclosure: my "bust" declarations are just from memory.  Memory could be faulty.)

 
Juxtatarot said:
Although Jerry Krause did a good job of signing some free agent role players, his drafting during the dynasty years was, overall, pretty bad.  (Kukoc was the year before the first championship so I'm not counting him.)

The first round picks: Mark Randall (bust), Byron Houston (bust), Corie Blount (ended up decent but not for the Bulls), Dickey Simpkins (bust), Jason Caffey (decent pick, I guess), Travis Knight (he ended up a decent rebounder (IIRC) but the Bulls never signed him), Keith Booth (bust), Corey Benjamin (bust).

(Disclosure: my "bust" declarations are just from memory.  Memory could be faulty.)
Click to expand...
I mean, the highest they picked in that stretch was #20.  So while that's certainly not a bullet point for his resume, those were more or less the expected outcomes from those picks.

 
thecatch said:
I mean, the highest they picked in that stretch was #20.  So while that's certainly not a bullet point for his resume, those were more or less the expected outcomes from those picks.
Click to expand...
Yes, I should have mentioned the lateness of the picks.  It certainly gets dicey late first round.  Still, though, my guess is that group is below average even when considering draft position.

 
Interesting that there were 3 Detroit Pistons Bad Boys that eventually got rings with Chicago. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
Although Jerry Krause did a good job of signing some free agent role players, his drafting during the dynasty years was, overall, pretty bad.  (Kukoc was the year before the first championship so I'm not counting him.)

The first round picks: Mark Randall (bust), Byron Houston (bust), Corie Blount (ended up decent but not for the Bulls), Dickey Simpkins (bust), Jason Caffey (decent pick, I guess), Travis Knight (he ended up a decent rebounder (IIRC) but the Bulls never signed him), Keith Booth (bust), Corey Benjamin (bust).

(Disclosure: my "bust" declarations are just from memory.  Memory could be faulty.)
Click to expand...
Krause traded for Granville Waiters.

 
Capella said:
I mean comparing finals records while simultaneously ignoring how one guy got there 3 more times is extremely ridiculous. 
Click to expand...
True, but it's a much lower "greatness rating" for getting to the final game/series and losing than there is winning. It's not like losing is 50% as good as winning. It's more like 10-15% as good. I'm a Bills fan. Those 4 Super Bowl losses are very low on most NFL fans' "greatness rating."

May not be fair, but it is what it is. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alex P Keaton said:
Yeah.  He had some pretty steep competition for those 9 finals trips.  It’s basically like Brady winning the AFC East against guys like Butt Fumble every year.  
Click to expand...
Yes, that’s always the excuse, as if the 1993 New York Knicks were history’s greatest team that never won a title or something. Please. 

 
Who were the great teams Jordan beat in the East? The Knicks with one hall of famer? The Indiana Pacers? You can’t say Lebron had it easy while pretending Jordan was going through a murderer’s row. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Capella said:
Who were the great teams Jordan beat in the East? The Knicks with one hall of famer? The Indiana Pacers? You can’t say Lebron had it easy while pretending Jordan was going through a murderer’s row. 
Click to expand...
Why don't you list the teams he went through in the overpowered West. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
GROOT said:
Why don't you list the teams he went through in the West
Click to expand...
The 91 Lakers were a 3 seed, undoubtedly still a great team but Magic wasn’t 1985 Magic anymore. 

92 Blazers were a 51-win 4 seed   :shrug:  

93 Suns were one of the best teams to never win a title for sure  

96 Sonics were a great team and so were the Jazz. 
 

Lebron beat maybe one of the greatest teams ever in the Warriors, and lost to the Spurs twice and those absolutely ridiculous warriors teams three times (!!!) while undermanned. Jordan never ever ever faced a team anywhere as good as those Warrior teams but I am excited for somebody to tell me the Rik Smits/Reggie Miller Pacers were a real bear  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Capella said:
The 91 Lakers were a 3 seed, undoubtedly still a great team but Magic wasn’t 1985 Magic anymore. 

92 Blazers were a 51-win 4 seed   :shrug:  

93 Suns were one of the best teams to never win a title for sure  

96 Sonics were a great team and so were the Jazz. 
 

Lebron beat maybe one of the greatest teams ever in the Warriors, and lost to the Spurs twice and those absolutely ridiculous warriors teams three times (!!!) while undermanned. Jordan never ever ever faced a team anywhere as good as those Warrior teams but I am excited for somebody to tell me the Rik Smits/Reggie Miller Pacers were a real bear  
Click to expand...
You forget one thing. If hand-checking was legal the Warriors wouldn't be as successful as they were. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
GROOT said:
You forget one thing. If hand-checking was legal the Warriors wouldn't be as successful as they were. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
Click to expand...
They may not have been as successful but I’m just speaking to the completion Lebron faced. 
 

42. Grew up watching Jordan’s prime. 

 
Synthesizer said:
Jordan just underachieved earlier in the playoffs, losing in the first round 3 times.  Something Lebron has never done.
Click to expand...
It's crazy to think that Jordan either missed the playoffs or lost in the 1st round in five of his 15 NBA seasons (14 1/2 if you want to consider 1994-1995 an abridged season).

Capella said:
Who were the great teams Jordan beat in the East? The Knicks with one hall of famer? The Indiana Pacers? You can’t say Lebron had it easy while pretending Jordan was going through a murderer’s row. 
Click to expand...
Let's also not forget how good those teams around Jordan were.

Consider that when he retired to play baseball, the Bulls in 1993-1994 still won 55 games and were (allegedly) a bad call away from making it to the conference finals.  Meanwhile, every team LeBron leaves turns to absolute #### when he leaves (both times he left Cleveland, they became one of the worst teams in the league, and Miami has won one playoff series in five years since he left there). 

 
encaitar said:
LeBron does not get star treatment on calls.  If you honestly believe this, then you either haven't watched the NBA in the last 10 years or you are a straight up LeBron hater.  He gets hacked on more drives without a call than anyone in the league since Shaq was a dominant force.

Sure, he #####es a lot.... practically a necessity in today's game(one of the reasons I like 90s ball more), but he definitely doesn't get the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Again, I say this as a HUGE Jordan fanboy.  Hell, I own 3 pairs of Jordan golf spikes(not even gonna count the sneakers).
Click to expand...
Clearly you are a Lebron Fanboy or just don't want to admit how bad the Officiating is today or how many of these games are completely fixed by the NBA. And he shouldn't get Half the calls because he flops. Please tell me you didn't type this with a straight face and this is a troll job. 

 
DJackson10 said:
MJ doesn't even have to guard Lebron Physically. The physiological warfare with MJ would get anyone out of their game. I remember when the Bulls vs Lebron played a similar stye and Lebron went to the league like a little ##### and cried about it. He complained Noah taunted him and then said he went "too far" after the game. No one ever knows what Noah said but it probably wasn't anything close to what MJ would say. Nothing was off limits with him. 
Click to expand...
And to add to this and why Lebron gets special treatment. In the same series or the year after the Bulls played incredible physical against James and Company almost toeing the line of what is legal or not but well within the bylaws of todays rules. After that Lebron and MIA went to the league and threw a #####fit. The next game within the first 5 mins of the game both Deng and Butler were in foul trouble for some very obvious favoritism calls and tick tacky calls. I've watched guys get gang mugged at one end of the floor in the paint going to the basket and no call and seconds later the whistles can't blow fast enough for a guy barely Touching Lebron or one of his teammates. 

 
Capella said:
The 91 Lakers were a 3 seed, undoubtedly still a great team but Magic wasn’t 1985 Magic anymore. 

92 Blazers were a 51-win 4 seed   :shrug:  

93 Suns were one of the best teams to never win a title for sure  

96 Sonics were a great team and so were the Jazz. 
 

Lebron beat maybe one of the greatest teams ever in the Warriors, and lost to the Spurs twice and those absolutely ridiculous warriors teams three times (!!!) while undermanned. Jordan never ever ever faced a team anywhere as good as those Warrior teams but I am excited for somebody to tell me the Rik Smits/Reggie Miller Pacers were a real bear  
Click to expand...
Wait - LeBron was undermanned with Kyrie and Love?

 
Ghost Rider said:
It's crazy to think that Jordan either missed the playoffs or lost in the 1st round in five of his 15 NBA seasons (14 1/2 if you want to consider 1994-1995 an abridged season).

Let's also not forget how good those teams around Jordan were.

Consider that when he retired to play baseball, the Bulls in 1993-1994 still won 55 games and were (allegedly) a bad call away from making it to the conference finals.  Meanwhile, every team LeBron leaves turns to absolute #### when he leaves (both times he left Cleveland, they became one of the worst teams in the league, and Miami has won one playoff series in five years since he left there). 
Click to expand...
Fair points.   Also a reminder of how bad LeBron the GM is.

 
Aaron Rudnicki said:
Why is everyone so hung up on LeBron in a Jordan thread?
Click to expand...
The Lebron fans just can't admit MJ was better. When MJ struggled to win he didn't run off and form some super team or ##### and complain about it. He went in the Gym and was determined to get stronger. MJ has a competitive fire and assassins' mentality about him. Ask any real basketball fan if you need a final shot in a Game 7 of the NBA finals who's taking it if you can Choose between MJ and LeBron? I think most would choose MJ. Want to know why there's no Kobe/MJ who's better? They were compared to one another for awhile but Kobe emulated MJ's game more then Lebron and had that same competitive mentality as MJ. When the going got Tough MJ and Kobe stood tall. When it got tough for Lebron he left for Mia to play with his friends and put a whole circus on TV before telling everyone he was signing with the team everyone and their grandmother knew he was signing with. Then there's the loyalty factor in all of this. MJ and Kobe were both loyal to their teams. Lebron never tried to work things out with Clevland from day 1. He's just ##### publicly about it. Lebron like many players today are mercenaries for higher. Zero loyalty 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

krista4
In this thread I rank my favorite Beatles songs: 204-1.
138 139 140
Replies
7K
Views
196K
Pip's Invitation
Pip's Invitation
Couch Potato
Couch Potato 2012 Dynasty Rankings
4 5 6
Replies
293
Views
34K
Spin
Spin
Mark Wimer
  • Locked
2011 Injury Thread - Skill position players
Replies
49
Views
9K
Mark Wimer
Mark Wimer

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top