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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (3 Viewers)

Bracie Smathers said:
How many complete games has Jimmy had in his career?  

One.

How many deep throws did he attempt in his lone complete NFL game?

Three.

How many of those three deep throws did he connect?

ZERO.

And they were all off target where the WR had no chance.

In his other game that he didn't finish because he got injured on the one big hit that he took, he actually completed the one deep ball that he attempted but the WR had broken completely free of the DB and Jimmy had no pressure and was able to step up into the throw and wasn't rushed.

His deep ball accuracy SUCKS.  I don't need your permission to say so and it is his PRE-DRAFT SCOUTING REPORT that I didn't read before I made my own observation.

Also, the Patriots are a dink-and-dunk passing attack but they use that to set up the deep ball and Tom Brady leads the league in throwing the deep ball.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-best-quarterbacks-on-each-route-type-in-2016/


 


Guess who was the runner-up on throwing and CONNECTING on GO routes?

The 'other' Super Bowl QB, Matt Ryan.

The best QBs in the NFL who were successful throwing and CONNECTING, i.e. deep ball accuracy, played in the SB.  So I consider deep ball accuracy to be very important for any NFL QB.
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lol ... so Garappolo missed badly on all 3 of his long ball attempts ... and his 4th one that was completed doesn't count because the WR was open and there was no pass rush. 

You think Brady has been accurate with the deep ball? You obviously don't watch Patriots football.

You chose to look at 2016 because it fits your argument. How about 2014 when he won a Super Bowl? His long ball accuracy was 28% ...well below most (NFL avg 33.6%). I'm sure if I chose to look closer I would find this was the case for most of his career ... other than maybe the Randy Moss seasons.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2491902-aaron-rodgers-big-ben-orjay-cutler-ranking-the-nfls-best-deep-passers

Deep Passing Stats: The Elite


Quarterback


Att


Comp


Yards


TD


INT


Comp %


Yards/Att


Tom Brady


136


38


1238


7


5


27.9%


9.1


Drew Brees


143


55


2049


21


6


38.5%


14.3


Peyton Manning


148


64


2238


19


7


43.2%


15.1


Aaron Rodgers


95


49


1814


13


3


51.6%


19.1


Ben Roethlisberger


153


56


1819


15


9


36.6%


11.9


NFL Average (16 games)


133


45


1540


11.4


8.9


33.6%


11.6


Deep Passing Stats: The Young Guns


Quarterback


Att


Comp


Yards


TD


INT


Comp%


Yards/Att


Andy Dalton


133


42


1581


14


14


31.6%


11.9


Colin Kaepernick


131


44


1388


9


6


33.6%


10.6


Andrew Luck


152


51


1815


16


8


33.6%


11.9


Cam Newton


124


31


1031


10


6


25.0%


8.3


Ryan Tannehill


119


27


933


3


10


22.7%


7.8


Russell Wilson


121


49


1694


11


8


40.5%


14.0



Deep Passing Stats: The Veterans

Quarterback Comp%

Jay Cutler 36.5%

Joe Flacco 24.8%

Eli Manning 32.3%

Carson Palmer 31.4%

Philip Rivers 40.5%

Tony Romo 38.2%

Matt Ryan 37.7%

Alex Smith 25.8%

Matthew Stafford 31.1%

(Quote Football Outsiders Game Charting Project)

 
Bossman said:
lol ... so Garappolo missed badly on all 3 of his long ball attempts ... and his 4th one that was completed doesn't count because the WR was open and there was no pass rush. 
Click to expand...
Garoppolo's deep ball accuracy sucks.  He came in with questions about his deep ball accuracy and hasn't improved.

You felt compelled go back to 2014 season stats and cherry pick them to say Tom Brady isn't accurate with his deep ball?

 LOL.    

 
Here's one from 5 years ago that covered the 3 previous years.


Rank


Player


Current Team


Deep Comp


Deep Att


Deep Drops


Deep Comp%


Deep Acc%


1


Drew Brees


NO


101


206


10


49.0%


53.9%


2


Michael Vick


PHI


51


120


9


42.5%


50.0%


3


Vince Young


BUF


38


93


8


40.9%


49.5%


4


David Garrard


MIA


51


115


3


44.3%


47.0%


5


Eli Manning


NYG


102


248


14


41.1%


46.8%


6


Andy Dalton


CIN


28


60


0


46.7%


46.7%


7


Aaron Rodgers


GB


79


200


14


39.5%


46.5%


8


Matt Schaub


HOU


58


136


5


42.6%


46.3%


9


Matt Moore


MIA


40


106


9


37.7%


46.2%


10


Tony Romo


DAL


56


128


3


43.8%


46.1%

Just looking back at past years Brady seems to be a constant at having a low percentage for throwing deep.  I don't think it has much to do with cherry picking as it is just a fact.

 
So it's ridiculous to think Garoppolo could become a franchise QB or that he may fetch a first round pick in a trade this offseason, but it's ok to make a definitive statement about his skill set based on four NFL regular season passes?

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Just looking back at past years Brady seems to be a constant at having a low percentage for throwing deep.  I don't think it has much to do with cherry picking as it is just a fact.
Click to expand...
At past years did you skip over the most recent? Outside of 2007 they never had a deep threat. Brady was the best passer last year, especially deep. Chris Hogan led the league in yards per catch.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Garoppolo's deep ball accuracy sucks.  He came in with questions about his deep ball accuracy and hasn't improved.

You felt compelled go back to 2014 season stats and cherry pick them to say Tom Brady isn't accurate with his deep ball?

 LOL.    
Click to expand...
One of us is cherry picking.

From my post: 

You chose to look at 2016 because it fits your argument. How about 2014 when he won a Super Bowl? His long ball accuracy was 28% ...well below most (NFL avg 33.6%). I'm sure if I chose to look closer I would find this was the case for most of his career ... other than maybe the Randy Moss season

Here is a list of deep ball accuracy by QB from the 5 year span of 2008-2013 seasons:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--N5OloNPU--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/198inctjf4zbyjpg.jpg

Brady and your Matt Ryan are 23rd and 24th on this list.

Good thing their team GM's didn't put a lot of weight in "deep ball accuracy" when assessing their QB needs.

Kaepernick, Shaub, and Glennon are neer the top of the list though. ... and Geno Smith lol.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Run It Up said:
At past years did you skip over the most recent? Outside of 2007 they never had a deep threat. Brady was the best passer last year, especially deep. Chris Hogan led the league in yards per catch.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying that in a lot of years his deep ball stats are not impressive.  It seems more often than not he does not have good stats in that category.  I know Brady is great and he's proven that.  I also know that he's never had many deep threats on the team and their system relies more on short passes.  None of this negates the fact that his deep ball stats are poor and that he's still a great QB despite it.  He doesn't need any homers defending him.

 
With all the vitriol some folks who are Patriots haters toss out in this thread, I wonder how they would be responding if we were talking about Jimmy G being on the Steelers or Saints.

 
Spike said:
With all the vitriol some folks who are Patriots haters toss out in this thread, I wonder how they would be responding if we were talking about Jimmy G being on the Steelers or Saints.
Click to expand...
If the Steeler front office thought JG was remotely good enough to be Bens replacement, they would be trying to keep him at this point if Bens career.  :shrug:

 
-OZ- said:
We're off subject but Ben has only 3 seasons, of 13, where he's played 16 games.  Dude takes a beating. 
Click to expand...
He does... and he was talking about retirement.  That may have been a veiled attempt at asking for more money but... I imagine the Steelers know his long term plans.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Yet the fact remains: when age/wear hits an NFL player its very sudden.
Click to expand...
Agreed.  Brady is defying the odds right now...  I suspect NE wouldn't look to move JG if he had 2 years left on his rookie deal.   But Brady isn't any "40 year old QB".  He is the face of their franchise; won 2 of the last 3 Superbowls and just proved he can still run that offense better than anyone else.   I don't think two more years of high level play are out of the question.

For reference: Flutie retired at 43. Testaverde and Moon retired at 44.  George Blanda retired at 48 and could still kick FGs.  Brady hasn't taken a beating; 

 
DropKick said:
He does... and he was talking about retirement.  That may have been a veiled attempt at asking for more money but... I imagine the Steelers know his long term plans.
Click to expand...
I think Ben's talk of retirement was more a jab at his inept coaching staff and a plea to ownership to do something about it.

It came on the heels of a crushing playoff loss to NE where his coaches had no clue how to game plan for ... and failed to make any in game adjustments. Coach is a great motivator but not much of an X's and O's guy (a cheerleader as Terry Bradshaw puts it).

Also, fueled by shenanigans by AB in the locker room the week before. Coaches allowing that behavior without consequence. It made the team seem very unprofessional / undisciplined compared to the team that beat their brains in (NE).

All that seemed to put Ben in a bad place psychologically. 

I don't think PIT took his threats to retire seriously. Hasn't he done this before?

I don't think they would pursue a replacement (Garoppolo) unless Bens retirement became official.

(edit to add) ... maybe draft a rookie with Ben's status in doubt ... but not a vet with only one year left on his contract. Ben doesn't retire and they are right were the Pats are with Garoppolo.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bossman said:
It came on the heels of a crushing playoff loss to NE where his coaches had no clue how to game plan for ... and failed to make any in game adjustments. Coach is a great motivator but not much of an X's and O's guy (a cheerleader as Terry Bradshaw puts it).

Also, fueled by shenanigans by AB in the locker room the week before. Coaches allowing that behavior without consequence. It made the team seem very unprofessional / undisciplined compared to the team that beat their brains in (NE).

All that seemed to put Ben in a bad place psychologically. 
Click to expand...


Losing tends to put any competitor in a bad place psychologically.  A lot of times you get divisions where there's only one team and the other teams are just terrible.  This is because its really hard to have TWO high quality teams in the same division because once one of them get the upper hand by a little bit, the temptation is there for the other team to blow it all up and start over (which starts a cycle of destruction and losing).  

If Belichick had gone to the NFC, the Steelers probably would have gone to 3-4 more super bowls and Roethlisberger wouldn't feel the need to pressure anyone with retirement talk.

 
Bossman said:
 ...

(edit to add) ... maybe draft a rookie with Ben's status in doubt ... but not a vet with only one year left on his contract. Ben doesn't retire and they are right were the Pats are with Garoppolo.
Click to expand...
Highly doubt he meant the Steelers should trade for jimmy, just that if they had jimmy they probably wouldn't trade him away. 

Agree that the Steelers should draft a QB, probably late in the draft.  If local guy nate Peterman was available late, he'd be worthwhile. 

 
-OZ- said:
Highly doubt he meant the Steelers should trade for jimmy, just that if they had jimmy they probably wouldn't trade him away. 

Agree that the Steelers should draft a QB, probably late in the draft.  If local guy nate Peterman was available late, he'd be worthwhile. 
Click to expand...
:thumbup:

 
-OZ- said:
Highly doubt he meant the Steelers should trade for jimmy, just that if they had jimmy they probably wouldn't trade him away. 

Agree that the Steelers should draft a QB, probably late in the draft.  If local guy nate Peterman was available late, he'd be worthwhile. 
Click to expand...
Also that the slamming of the team looking to get premium assets for Jimmy (the Patriots) would be different if it was the Steelers or Saints (or any comparable team).  The hatred for the Patriots is, in my mind, coloring the opinions of some in here.

 
Spike said:
With all the vitriol some folks who are Patriots haters toss out in this thread, I wonder how they would be responding if we were talking about Jimmy G being on the Steelers or Saints.
Click to expand...
I know I'd be saying that JG isn't worth a 1 and a 4.

 
Spike said:
Also that the slamming of the team looking to get premium assets for Jimmy (the Patriots) would be different if it was the Steelers or Saints (or any comparable team).  The hatred for the Patriots is, in my mind, coloring the opinions of some in here.
Click to expand...
But to be fair we really did have to go through almost the same motions (two 1sts) during the Rohan Davey days.  So in this vein maybe its a bit more of a cry-wolf scenario.

 
Spike said:
Also that the slamming of the team looking to get premium assets for Jimmy (the Patriots) would be different if it was the Steelers or Saints (or any comparable team).  The hatred for the Patriots is, in my mind, coloring the opinions of some in here.
Click to expand...
For some of us, it's less hatred than it is thinking jimmy will be less successful any place other than the Patriots, or at least any team that is in the market for a qb. 

 
Spike said:
Nobody ANYWHERE thought Davey was worth 2 1st round picks.  Not even his mother.
Click to expand...
You are lucky you missed it.  It was supposed to be a 1st (per the Patriot media sources) and then the forum threads ran the idea to more then just a 1st, which eventually lead to the joke of two 1sts.

 
Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter  2m2 minutes ago

In a move that will have a ripple effect on all QB-needy teams, Patriots are not expected to trade QB Jimmy Garoppolo, per league sources.
Click to expand...
Well this was fun.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Not expected to trade him.........because nobody is paying through the nose
Click to expand...
No way dude, you must be a Patriot hater.  According to Patriot homer logic you just got burned because you told the truth.  LOL.  Tom Brady leads the league throwing deep and Matt Ryan but it means nothing, lol.  You say nobody is going to pay through the nose, lets see what these 'smart' Patriot homers come up with to say they burned you.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
No way dude, you must be a Patriot hater.  According to Patriot homer logic you just got burned because you told the truth.  LOL.  Tom Brady leads the league throwing deep and Matt Ryan but it means nothing, lol.  You say nobody is going to pay through the nose, lets see what these 'smart' Patriot homers come up with to say they burned you.  
Click to expand...
"LOL"

 
We're back baby!

The Boston Herald's Jeff Howe insists a Jimmy Garoppolo trade is "still in play" despite Wednesday reports the Patriots aren't expected to deal him.

The Pats leaking word they don't intend to trade Garoppolo only strengthens their position and could have been a leverage-aimed move. "Let's not pretend the Pats are hanging up the phone when teams call," Howe wrote. Howe believes New England would be "happy" to keep Garoppolo behind 39-year-old Tom Brady, but "they'd also be happy if a team met their trade demands." Garoppolo's trade-market price would almost certainly involve a first-round pick and more.
Click to expand...
 
 
I will usually side with the local reporters over the national ones. National guys (Schefter, Werder, etc.) are the ones saying JG is off the market. Local guys are saying otherwise (Howe, Curran, etc.).

 
Dr. Octopus said:
We're back baby!

Howe believes New England would be "happy" to keep Garoppolo behind 39-year-old Tom Brady, but "they'd also be happy if a team met their trade demands." Garoppolo's trade-market price would almost certainly involve a first-round pick and more.
Click to expand...
It's such a relief that the Patriots will be happy.  

 
I am officially sitting back and enjoying this...this could go in like five different directions and you can make a case for all of them (some more than others)...due to that I am going into "in Bill we trust" mode and will simply trust that whatever they do was the smart decision for them...this should be extremely entertaining...

 
Potential elite starting QBs are a rare find in the NFL, (note the word "potential"). Having said that, I'm happy to hear the news today about JG from the NEP perspective. Great insurance for a Tom Brady injury or sudden cliff dive. Holding onto him is absolutely the right move.

 
As a Pats fan, I wish JG had 4 more years on his contract so they could keep him.

I just don't see any way JG signs a new deal unless he is starting somewhere.

He will be 26 this year ... why would he sign on as a backup for 4 more years ... so he can finally become a starter at 30 years old?

Won't happen. Pats need to trade him or they get nothing for him next year. (not gonna tag a backup for $22m)

 
When push comes to shove at the draft, I'm willing to bet the Patriots move JG no-matter-what.  Whether they get overpaid, market value, or underpaid.

They will want the pick and have Jacoby sitting right there.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
When push comes to shove at the draft, I'm willing to bet the Patriots move JG no-matter-what.  Whether they get overpaid, market value, or underpaid.

They will want the pick and have Jacoby sitting right there.
Click to expand...
:yes: there will come a point where a player they want more than jimmy is there and the other team prefers a qb with some experience. 

I don't think it will come down to a "move no matter what" deal but they'll get decent enough value.  

 
BigSteelThrill said:
When push comes to shove at the draft, I'm willing to bet the Patriots move JG no-matter-what.  Whether they get overpaid, market value, or underpaid.

They will want the pick and have Jacoby sitting right there.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

... and I think that because of the drought of quality QB's available, the price paid will be on the higher side ... but it wouldn't shock me if the Pats took two 2nd rd picks or a 2nd and 3rd.

I could see CLE giving up their 2018 1st for JG, keeping both their #1 and #12 picks this year.  They would have quite a nice foundation of talent to build around.

 
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