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Potential NFL competitive integrity issue brought to light in Rams @ Saints game (2 Viewers)

Let's maybe start with learning the difference between win probability and a "computer model".
I do know the difference Ok? How about I could care less about “win probability.” You cannot be 100% certain of any “probable outcome” due to human element. Blown calls happen every game. This one was bad—maybe the worst ever but they still could have won and life goes on ya know?

 
I do know the difference Ok? How about I could care less about “win probability.” You cannot be 100% certain of any “probable outcome” due to human element. Blown calls happen every game. This one was bad—maybe the worst ever but they still could have won and life goes on ya know?
Of course it does.

The question is how does the league fix it so there isn't a next time.

 
Of course it does.

The question is how does the league fix it so there isn't a next time.
Unless we have super computers referee the game, there will be a next time and a time after that. Human element which I believe Ben Watson eloquently and accurately stated it. But sure, I’m all for improving. I don’t want to ever see a play like that happen again. And as I’ve said before, I like the saints and feel really bad for their fans on this board but I can’t believe with the state of the country, that a game played and officiated by imperfect poeple  has become a pressing, national issue. That’s absurd.

ETA: wasn’t there once a discussion to just have a computer calls balls and strikes in baseball? But I believe it was shot down because no one really wants to go THAT far to remove human element. Have to take the good with the bad I guess....

 
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Unless we have super computers referee the game, there will be a next time and a time after that. Human element which I believe Ben Watson eloquently and accurately stated it. But sure, I’m all for improving. I don’t want to ever see a play like that happen again. And as I’ve said before, I like the saints and feel really bad for their fans on this board but I can’t believe with the state of the country, that a game played and officiated by imperfect poeple  has become a pressing, national issue. That’s absurd.

ETA: wasn’t there once a discussion to just have a computer calls balls and strikes in baseball? But I believe it was shot down because no one really wants to go THAT far to remove human element. Have to take the good with the bad I guess....
The talk of the automated strike zone definitely continues and actually increases every season it becomes more feasible.

Color me in the camp of doing what it takes to get the calls right.  I dont enjoy the human element of reffing the game when it comes to black and white calls.  Certain rulings lend themselves to subjectivity and human refs will always be necessary.  Certain calls are yes/no and I hate it when they are missed and not corrected.  Especially when those calls happen in game/season changing moments.  Whatever it takes to get it right is what I am in favor of.

 
 Not a congressman, a SENATOR for crying out loud. The blow hard actually had the nerve to thank government workers for working for free before getting to his main argument of the poor Saints fan base getting screwed. Unbelievable.
Senators and Representatives are both congressmen....sorry, pet peeve that I really don't understand at all.  

Carry on

 
I always think about before Instant replay all the bad calls that stayed bad calls.

But....the great teams still won the SB's.

 
treat88 said:
The question is how does the league fix it so there isn't a next time.
They can't. They won't. And there will be a "next time"... maybe even on Sunday.

Forget about it. Move on or stop watching... those are the options.

 
Tampa Bay Times columnist commiserates:

I’m not blaming the officiating crew for having their eyes painted on. I blame the system. And the system needs to be addressed before next season. There is too much money on the line. And then there is that trophy.

Baseball has replay. Even hockey has replay. Guys sit in command centers in New York and Toronto, respectively, and review reviewable plays and let officials on site know what went down. That’s what football needs. Not that it will do the Saints any good, but that’s what the NFL needs, otherwise it’s Jeffrey Maier times one hundred.

I mean, you bring in $9 billion you can’t have a guy watching a screen buzz the referee’s ear piece and let him know what his crew missed?

Yeah, those same guys watching the screens will probably also see holding on ever play, only because there is. Some kinks will need to be worked out, but you get the idea.

...

... this isn’t about people being people. It’s about a system that’s broken. And the NFL just rewarded it by ignoring it, nothing to see here, move along, enjoy the fan zone.

 
Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank:

"The NFL takes the integrity of the game very seriously," Blank said.

"That's the backbone of what we do. Every year, the competition committee looks at everything that took place in the previous year, and obviously this year will include the call that was missed in the conference championship game.

"They will look at making refinements to the rules, and I'm sure they will do something, although what that will be I'm not sure."

 
A Week Later, a Blown Call Is Still Topic A (New York Times)

At N.F.L. media nights, the biggest stars speak at podiums, and this year was no different. When the Los Angeles Rams took the floor, quarterback Jared Goff, running back Todd Gurley II and Coach Sean McVay drew big crowds.

But cornerback Nickell Robey-Coleman drew equally large crowds. A week ago, Robey-Coleman was a former undrafted free agent finishing his sixth season. Now, he needed media minders to keep reporters from digging too deeply into a play that may have altered the Super Bowl.

 
NE should file a protest right now in the event (when) the refs screw them.

Think about it...Saints get jobbed out of a SB appearance.  Imagine if the Rams win it all?  However, my guess is that no one will care as much as they should because of a NE loss.  That's just weird.

 
You and Doug B treating this as a walk-off win that got over turned aren't doing much for your credibility.


pretending that no call wouldn't have been the game clincher/ win for the Saints is turning a blind eye to logic  

spin away ..... but  this SB comes with an asterisk 

 
Roger Goodell's 'State of the NFL' press conference coming up at noon CDT.

There's usually some non-sports press at SB Media Week -- journalists who can flout the NFL and not care if they never get future access again. Though I know Goodell will give non-answers, it will be interesting to see if he can be made to squirm a bit.

 
Sean Payton is having his end-of-season press conference live right now.

Mike Triplett
@MikeTriplett

Sean Payton said as much as he hated having the postgame phone call with the NFL’s head of officials, Al Riveron, he credited Riveron for being great about the no-call. Payton hopes it can spur a rules change, like “loopholes” discovered in games have done in the past.
Link

 
Can someone tell Sean Payton no one cares about his 30 min press conference week of Super Bowl he isn’t in. 
It's the regular end-of-season press conference that most coaches do every year. Besides, he's surrounded by local media -- it's understood that people in other markets are less interested.

EDIT: Someone on Saintsreport posted that ALL NFL coaches are required to have these end-of-season press conferences. I know I've seen other coaches do them ... Belichick's seem to get attention most years. Therefore, there's no legit beef about Payton talking to the media today. If ESPN or other outlets choose to keep the No-Call issue alive for their own reasons, that's on those outlets and not on Payton. 

...

If any of you guys have the Radio.com app on your phones, you should listen in to WWL 870 AM out of New Orleans. It's the station on which the Saints' games are broadcast, but it's not 24-hour sports. News talk with local hosts all day, sports in the evenings. The runaway #1 AM station locally. Anyway, even during the day, during the local talk and the political shows ... the station has been using a montage of audio about the No-Call as their bumper "music" coming out of commercial breaks. I listen to the station about an hour a day while driving around -- the No-Call is still either the #1 or #2 topic on all programming -- even the non-sports content. I expect to hear more this afternoon.

 
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GoBirds, how did Payton's press conference get on your radar, anyway? Is ESPN carrying it or something?

If a national outlet has picked it up ... it IS news for better or worse. Even if it's non-impactful, no-consequence news, the fact that the No-Call keeps getting dredged up again and again and again ... that's a black eye for the league.

 
Kevin Seifert‏
@SeifertESPN

“Limited coaches’ challenges for incorrect judgment calls" with a penalty if initial call stands. A possible @NFL compromise on reviewing pass interference, via @AdamSchefter
Link

 
NFL likely to consider judgment challenge with penalty disincentive

As a possible solution to avoid the type of missed call that occurred in the NFC Championship Game, the NFL is expected to consider a plan that would allow limited coaches' challenges for incorrect judgment calls that also could include a penalty or time run off if the coach is wrong, per a league source.

It is a proposal designed to get those against allowing coaches' challenges of officials' judgment calls more supportive of the potential rule change. By creating a disincentive or penalty to even question a judgment call, it would be used rarely and wouldn't be abused -- at least that's the hope.

One source predicted the competition committee will figure out a way to get a rule like this passed, especially considering that it has the attention of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

...

Just like "what is a catch?" became a hot-button item last offseason, what coaches can challenges will be a hot-button item this offseason.

There will be other proposals the competition committee considers, but this one seems to have some traction, per a source.

 
GoBirds, how did Payton's press conference get on your radar, anyway? Is ESPN carrying it or something?

If a national outlet has picked it up ... it IS news for better or worse. Even if it's non-impactful, no-consequence news, the fact that the No-Call keeps getting dredged up again and again and again ... that's a black eye for the league.
Yep ESPN carried it. In Sean's Netflix and Ice Cream time which he mentioned he needs to watch the move Frozen my kids have......there's a song for him. 

 
Yep ESPN carried it. In Sean's Netflix and Ice Cream time which he mentioned he needs to watch the move Frozen my kids have......there's a song for him
Not likely, I don't think. I mean, Payton and everyone else who cares about the Saints will carry on and live life -- but no one in that category will ever forget.

 
I understand you position better now , but I don't think you can say the play was allowed by the ref... I think it was just an egregiously bad call.  Either way, I don't care to argue so I'll bow out of the thread.
Horrible. In fact first thing that came to my mind was that the game was fixed. I'm sure I'm not alone there.

 
It probably would have won them the game.  
The refs said it was Dallas ball and no clear recovery on a fumble to start the game that had 5 Eagles on the ball. There was a PI on Dallas Goedert that almost cost an Eagles TD but they scored anyway. Horrible calls happen. Saints got a bounty of calls go their way during the year they won the SB. On 2nd down the Drive before the bad call for the Saints they got away with a blatant Facemask between the 10 and EZ on Goff that should've reset the downs. LAR had to settle for a FG instead. But how quickly Saints fans forget about that. Maybe Saints players and coaches should've worried about being more prepared for the game rather then Dog Masks or what gets other teams motivated. The Saints got a lot of calls go their way that screwed the Eagles over but you don't hear them and their fans blaming the refs for losing. Yeah the call sucks but constant complaining about it makes you look like a dam sore loser. no better then Tom Brady not shaking the opposing QB's hands after he loses his SB to the NFC East. 

 
Gonna say I'm guilty of actually liking that Song thanks to my Friends kids.
I went two years of having to listen to it every day. It was my daughter’s favorite. It’s a great soundtrack. After 25000 times though it got old. Thankfully she got into Moana and then The Greatest Showman. But even better yet, she digs my heavy metal LOL!

 
The refs said it was Dallas ball and no clear recovery on a fumble to start the game that had 5 Eagles on the ball. There was a PI on Dallas Goedert that almost cost an Eagles TD but they scored anyway. Horrible calls happen. Saints got a bounty of calls go their way during the year they won the SB. On 2nd down the Drive before the bad call for the Saints they got away with a blatant Facemask between the 10 and EZ on Goff that should've reset the downs. LAR had to settle for a FG instead. But how quickly Saints fans forget about that. Maybe Saints players and coaches should've worried about being more prepared for the game rather then Dog Masks or what gets other teams motivated. The Saints got a lot of calls go their way that screwed the Eagles over but you don't hear them and their fans blaming the refs for losing. Yeah the call sucks but constant complaining about it makes you look like a dam sore loser. no better then Tom Brady not shaking the opposing QB's hands after he loses his SB to the NFC East
Ya, because THAT is what Brady is known for. I don't understand some of u guys, u got the SB win and yet u hear this classless crap like "we have FUN on our team" blah blah (have fun wathing the sb on tv Lane (u ****). Speaking of constant complaining let it go man, did Mahomes find Brady after the afccc, no, does anyone care no. U won the sb stop looking for reason to trash brady and enjoy the moment at the top u had. Above all make sure you have fun:)  

 
Nah we would've just moved on and not act like a bunch of babies. 
BS  :lol:    

:blows out: 

Not picking on you, DJ, but just in general, after reading 2 weeks' worth of comments, posts, etc. all over the place... if this whole ordeal has taught me one thing, it's that people are terrible at making analogies. :lmao:   OF COURSE missed calls are part of the game. Haven't heard one Saints fan arguing about any other missed calls in this game or previous ones (there were some, for both teams). OF COURSE there were plays that could've been called and executed differently. No different from any other game. IMO, what those arguments are doing, though, is willfully ignoring the fact that the Saints scored enough points against a TOUGH defense and held one of the top offenses to 20 points and were in a position to ice the game in the waning moments, which was completely part of the game plan (OK not the dropped screen pass on first down that cost them ~20 seconds of wind down, but still...). It's all you can ask of your team, especially against what most would agree was a top-4 team all year long. 

I think anyone saying "let it go" is either a) a troll, b) specifically anti-Saints for whatever personal/rivalry reasons, or c) just a casual fan with not enough interest to understand that other fans might be more emotionally invested than they are for their own team. As a rather passionate fan of my team, I honestly can't understand people saying they wouldn't be upset if this happened to their team. I am not one that gets upset at games, because as I've always said, "I've got to get up and go to work the next day, win or lose," But this one gutted me. Last year broke my heart, but this one absolutely pissed me off, because it was taken out of our hands. Instead of no-call, if Brees threw a pick there or got sacked and fumbled, or if we attemped a FG and missed it, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would be another year of  heartbreak. This wasn't that. This was a feeling of having our OPPORTUNITY yanked away. And sure, we got the ball in OT. I can't speak for everyone, but I honestly didn't feel like we were going to win once the no-call took place. I was on tilt. I cannot imagine how it affected the players, but I can't doubt that it took some wind out of their sails too. For me, that's the crux of the whole argument. Yeah, I know, you're supposed to rise above difficult situations like that. But it's easy to say that from the outside looking in when it wasn't your team that it happened to. That argument loses with me, because you're arguing something that wasn't supposed to happen in the first place. (insert terrible analogy here)

Take the Falcons, our most bitter rival. We have flung poo back and forth at each other for years. Lord knows we have given them so much grief over the 28-3 SB comeback, even still to this day; However, if this had happened to them, while I would probably rejoice a bit from a rivalry standpoint ("if it can't be us, PLEASE don't let it be them!"), I would also hope for a change that would keep this from happening to US in the future. 

The reasons this is still dominating the headlines even now, 2 weeks later, are a) because it riled up a passionate fanbase who already has a somewhat jaded history with the current NFL administration, b) every sports and even non-sports media outlet has and continues to talk about it since it happened, which only fuels the fire, and c) the league (Roger) was silent on this for so long. I think if Roger had yesterday's press conference the Monday after the game, this would have died down already. Handling difficult issues is clearly not his strong suit. But it doesn't matter. He panders to the owners and the money, and that's all that really matters. It will die down eventually. A rule may get changed, or it may not, who knows. But I can assure you the fans of the Saints won't ever "just let this go." IMO, the only thing that will ever somewhat make up for this is making it to another SB, and I honestly don't know if that will ever happen again in my lifetime. We know we are on the back end of our "window" with Brees aging. This was the best team we've ever had. We got lucky breaks along the way. All that has to be in place to make it to the SB, for ANY team. This was our year. We all knew it. THAT is why the fanbase is pissed off and will remain that way. 

 
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Nah we would've just moved on and not act like a bunch of babies. 
This city would have moved on?  We are talking about Philadelphia (one of the most passionate fanbases)?  You’re kidding yourself if you believe that.  This would be the dominant topic in the city for the next year.  I honestly don’t know how people can fault Saints fans because nobody is in their shoes. 

ETA - disagreeing is one thing but calling them babies seems out of line given that we are less than 2 weeks removed from the biggest blown call in recent memory.

 
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Is the suggestion that MLB would change the outcome of the game the next day and award the "home run"? Has that ever happened before?
Don't know if the OP had a specific remedy in mind. IMHO, if something like that really happened in an MLB playoff game (esp a series clincher), MLB brass calls in from up on high and overrules the inexplicable call of the on-field umpire.

There is precedent in MLB, though, in going back and replaying a portion of a game. Baseball's a very different animal from football, obviously. I don't think hardly anyone expected the NFC Championship game to actually be replayed. The point of the OP is simply to illustrate the magnitude of the missed call.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
This city would have moved on?  We are talking about Philadelphia (one of the most passionate fanbases)?  You’re kidding yourself if you believe that.  This would be the dominant topic in the city for the next year.  I honestly don’t know how people can fault Saints fans because nobody is in their shoes. 

ETA - disagreeing is one thing but calling them babies seems out of line given that we are less than 2 weeks removed from the biggest blown call in recent memory.
Simple saying there was blown calls on both sides. I linked to at least 3 missed calls the refs had on the Saints. Was the call bad? Yeah it was but lets not pretend the Saints and their fans are innocent in all of this mocking others teams and all. I really don't feel sorry they got a raw deal here. Only sorry the league has such inept officiating. 

Also I think they'd be more tamed since we just won the SB last year. You'd have the air heads on radio making fuss about it for sure but I think the majority after a week would've moved on. 

 
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