push the tush play - horrible (Philly Fans Cling Desperately to Rugby Play In It's Final Year) (1 Viewer)

[styleride85]

Seems like it is only a couple people in this thread really upset about it, mainly that Desert Power guy. Most people posting lately seem okay with it, as the "it's not football" and "it's going to cause injuries" arguments seem to have been put to rest.

I still see zero reason it is more dangerous than other plays, and it actually seems safer than most. Again, it seems odd that no one brought it up the hundreds of times it's been done to rb's and wr's over the last 20 years.

 

[Rubi]

I'm 99% o.k. with it.
I'll be 100% o.k. with it when they change the name to "Push The Tush"

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The focus on this particular play is masking the real issue — offensive lineman shouldn’t be able to push a runner forward. Whether on the goalline or in the open field. That’s just stupid, regardless of where it happens.

But this happens all over the field, both ways. It's not unique to this specific play. Lineman push RBs constantly, defenders push in the backs of their own defenders who squared up with a runner, all the time. It doesn't make send to outlaw it in one specific instance and not all the others...which, by the way, very often contain an element of one of the biggest risk factors...momentum

I’ve agreed with this sentiment multiple times in the past 24 hours, in this thread. Really not sure why it needs to keep being repeated.

 

[unckeyherb]

As an Eagles fan that has seen every one of these plays run by that offense I’ll say this. 9 out of 10 times, Jalen has already crossed the line of scrimmage/goal line by the time the linemen and RBs start pushing him. The guy can squat the equivalent of two Dlinemen. He doesn’t need the help, frankly.

That being said I don’t really care, if it bothers you that much figure out how to stop it.

 

[styleride85]

As an Eagles fan that has seen every one of these plays run by that offense I’ll say this. 9 out of 10 times, Jalen has already crossed the line of scrimmage/goal line by the time the linemen and RBs start pushing him. The guy can squat the equivalent of two Dlinemen. He doesn’t need the help, frankly.

That being said I don’t really care, if it bothers you that much figure out how to stop it.

good posting. The pushing usually does very little to aid him, and everyone was fine with Brady and other QB's sneaking. The outrage is ridiculous.

 

[Desert_Power]

North Dakota has this awful play too apparently.

 

[mike9289]

I wouldn't be upset if they ban all pushing of the ball carrier. Having said that, having a WR fighting for a first down 9 yards down the field and an OL guy sprinting down to try to shove him forward seems different than this Eagle play. Don't know why, but it just does.

 

[styleride85]

I wouldn't be upset if they ban all pushing of the ball carrier. Having said that, having a WR fighting for a first down 9 yards down the field and an OL guy sprinting down to try to shove him forward seems different than this Eagle play. Don't know why, but it just does.

It does seem different. That WR play seems far more dangerous.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It was an illegal play. I have no idea why the NFL made it legal and really don’t care why.

It was too difficult to legislate, so they changed the rule to allow pushing but not pulling (which I guess is much easier to spot).

It’s pretty hard to understand why one of those is easy to spot but the other isn’t. But hey, I’m not an NFL ref!

I was a pretty regular pain point for controversy (See: USC vs Notre Dame). Regularly a point for controversy, difficult for refs to get on the same page and call it similar to each other, a judgement call that was difficult to enforce consistently in a pile with bodies everywhere. I'm surprised people don't remember.

I think it's like making when they made PI reviewable. It sounds like a good idea when something annoying is happening right in front of you (though again, I don't think there's any reason to be annoyed by this) but you quickly realize the fix is worse than the problem.

 

[rockaction]

I think it's like making when they made PI reviewable.

I don't know if you don't remember, but the refs basically had a sit-down strike regarding that penalty and were never disciplined by the NFL for it, which is about as inexcusable a work stoppage as I've ever seen. That had nothing to do with an impossibility to enforce, only a lack of will regarding its enforcement.

That was a joke in execution and not a bad idea at all. That was a collective bargaining by the refs that violated any labor law you might think of. Just awful.

 

[eighsse2]

I think it's like making when they made PI reviewable.

I don't know if you don't remember, but the refs basically had a sit-down strike regarding that penalty and were never disciplined by the NFL for it, which is about as inexcusable a work stoppage as I've ever seen. That had nothing to do with an impossibility to enforce, only a lack of will regarding its enforcement.

That was a joke in execution and not a bad idea at all. That was a collective bargaining by the refs that violated any labor law you might think of. Just awful.

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

 

[rockaction]

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

In 2019, the NFL instituted replay for obvious DPI calls. They had a replay system whereby officials could look at the play in retrospect and throw a flag. But the refs refused to call defensive pass interference on anybody the whole time the rule was in order. Even on flagranatly obvious plays, they refused to overturn themselves to the point the broadcasters were commenting really heavily about it. Not one. The whole year.

That's a fact.

My opinion (that I and many hold) is not that It went down as a "failure" in "implementation," but everybody knew it was a result of something to the effect of a sit-down strike by the officials. It was obvious to anybody with two eyes and an inkling for statistical likelihood. Since the NFL was coming off an unsuccessful labor dispute only a year or so eariler, the refs challenged the NFL and the NFL backed down, revoking the rule in 2020.

And there, eighsse2, is the history lesson.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can’t believe we’re seriously still talking about this.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

In 2019, the NFL instituted replay for obvious DPI calls. They had a replay system whereby officials could look at the play in retrospect and throw a flag. But the refs refused to call defensive pass interference on anybody the whole time the rule was in order. Even on flagranatly obvious plays, they refused to overturn themselves to the point the broadcasters were commenting really heavily about it. Not one. The whole year.

That's a fact.

My opinion (that I and many hold) is that It went down as a "failure" in implementation, but everybody knew it was a result of something to the effect of a sit-down strike by the officials. It was obvious to anybody with two eyes and an inkling for statistical likelihood. Since the NFL was coming off an unsuccessful labor dispute only a year or so eariler, the refs challenged the NFL and the NFL backed down, revoking the rule in 2020.

And there, eighsse2, is the history lesson.

That was in direct response to the egregious non-call in the Saints playoff game, right?

 

[rockaction]

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

In 2019, the NFL instituted replay for obvious DPI calls. They had a replay system whereby officials could look at the play in retrospect and throw a flag. But the refs refused to call defensive pass interference on anybody the whole time the rule was in order. Even on flagranatly obvious plays, they refused to overturn themselves to the point the broadcasters were commenting really heavily about it. Not one. The whole year.

That's a fact.

My opinion (that I and many hold) is that It went down as a "failure" in implementation, but everybody knew it was a result of something to the effect of a sit-down strike by the officials. It was obvious to anybody with two eyes and an inkling for statistical likelihood. Since the NFL was coming off an unsuccessful labor dispute only a year or so eariler, the refs challenged the NFL and the NFL backed down, revoking the rule in 2020.

And there, eighsse2, is the history lesson.

That was in direct response to the egregious non-call in the Saints playoff game, right?

Yes, exactly. This was because of the Saints game and the outcry in its aftermath.

 

[rockaction]

I can’t believe we’re seriously still talking about this.

Tush push or DPI? We're totes junkies about this stuff. Nothing surprises me, really.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

In 2019, the NFL instituted replay for obvious DPI calls. They had a replay system whereby officials could look at the play in retrospect and throw a flag. But the refs refused to call defensive pass interference on anybody the whole time the rule was in order. Even on flagranatly obvious plays, they refused to overturn themselves to the point the broadcasters were commenting really heavily about it. Not one. The whole year.

That's a fact.

My opinion (that I and many hold) is that It went down as a "failure" in implementation, but everybody knew it was a result of something to the effect of a sit-down strike by the officials. It was obvious to anybody with two eyes and an inkling for statistical likelihood. Since the NFL was coming off an unsuccessful labor dispute only a year or so eariler, the refs challenged the NFL and the NFL backed down, revoking the rule in 2020.

And there, eighsse2, is the history lesson.

That was in direct response to the egregious non-call in the Saints playoff game, right?

Yes, exactly. This was because of the Saints game and the outcry in its aftermath.

They needed to implement a 3rd party review system. Like how they go to NY for reviewable calls that have been challenged.

Letting the refs police themselves for PI was just dumb.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can’t believe we’re seriously still talking about this.

Tush push or DPI? We're totes junkies about this stuff. Nothing surprises me, really.

tush push.

If ya don’t like it, find a way to stop it. I see no difference between the tush push & a QB sneak in terms of competitiveness. It’s not against the rules, so why have a 500 page topic about it?

 

[eighsse2]

I wasn't aware of whatever you're referring to. What did the refs do, or refuse to do as the case may be? Sorry for straying off topic, just curious about this.

In 2019, the NFL instituted replay for obvious DPI calls. They had a replay system whereby officials could look at the play in retrospect and throw a flag. But the refs refused to call defensive pass interference on anybody the whole time the rule was in order. Even on flagranatly obvious plays, they refused to overturn themselves to the point the broadcasters were commenting really heavily about it. Not one. The whole year.

That's a fact.

My opinion (that I and many hold) is not that It went down as a "failure" in "implementation," but everybody knew it was a result of something to the effect of a sit-down strike by the officials. It was obvious to anybody with two eyes and an inkling for statistical likelihood. Since the NFL was coming off an unsuccessful labor dispute only a year or so eariler, the refs challenged the NFL and the NFL backed down, revoking the rule in 2020.

And there, eighsse2, is the history lesson.

Oh, okay, I get you now. I do remember reviewable PI, actually I didn't even realize that wasn't still in effect. It did seem like kind of a dumb idea, given that PI is one of the tougher "judgment calls" in the game. Overreaction to the Saints screwjob.

 

[rockaction]

If ya don’t like it, find a way to stop it.

That's really irrelevant. What's relevant is if that play is within the spirit of the rules and the spirit of football.

You can stop a receiver from juking you by tackling them, but that would be against the rules. Why? Because it's not in the spirit of football to tackle a guy without the ball. I mean, I could always say "just avoid him if you can't get open," but that would seem silly.

I happen to be among those who think it's more akin to a rugby scrum than a football play.

 

[rockaction]

I mean, we draw up rules all the time when it seems that something is interfering with how the game should be played. If it gives offenses a distinct advantage, then there will be calls for a rule against it.

It's no more arbitrary than saying the defense can't make contact with the receiver five yards beyond the ball because that gives defenses an unfair advantage over the offense. Thus it would be when addressing a play like the tush push.

Not to mention that there have been rules in place before that prevent this very type of behavior. Push/pull rules involving blockers have been in place in football for quite some time, on and off, so this shouldn't surprise anybody that this is a topic of discussion.

My two cents.

 

[styleride85]

That's really irrelevant. What's relevant is if that play is within the spirit of the rules and the spirit of football.

Since when do you decide what the spirit of football and rules are? The ones that ACTUALLY create the rules and "what football is", agree it's okay and have it as a legal play.

Also, this isn't 'akin to rugby scrum' in the slightest. Clearly you don't watch or follow Rugby, it's nothing like this. This is 100% closer to a qb sneak (a football play, in the spirit of football) than it is to any rugby play. Jeez, people will make up just about any reason (injuries, rugby-like) to disagree with this even when these points get shot down.

 

[pollardsvision]

I can’t believe we’re seriously still talking about this.

Tush push or DPI? We're totes junkies about this stuff. Nothing surprises me, really.

tush push.

If ya don’t like it, find a way to stop it. I see no difference between the tush push & a QB sneak in terms of competitiveness. It’s not against the rules, so why have a 500 page topic about it?

Clearly, others do see a difference, thus the 500 pages.
I haven't discussed it because I have no idea whether it's right or wrong or in the "spirit of the rules". All above my paygrade.

The NFL seems to celebrate with this stupid, bush league play so it doesn't matter.

Every time I time is see that stupid play, it somehow makes me hate the Eagles even more. I don't like that because I love Jalen. Frankly, it disappoints me that a young man with his great character would participate in this. As @unckeyherb pointed out, Jalen doesn't need the help.

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

 

[ghostguy123]

Huh?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

So now it’s bad karma?

lmao I can’t with y’all.

 

[FarFromHome]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

It’s truly the Seinfeld of threads.

“What’s the deal with this perfectly legal play that everybody hates?”

 

[GoBirds]

Best play in football.

 

[JohnnyU]

Best play in football.

No, that would be the hook and lateral, often colloquially called the hook and ladder play. I'm also fond of the flea flicker. You never see the hook and ladder play anymore.

 

[Da Guru]

North Dakota has this awful play too apparently.

I saw it a couple times yesterday on college football.

MSU had a third and short and put a tackle at fullback about a yard behind the QB and he shoved the QB forward.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

how do you stop it though?

Make it illegal for an offensive player to push a ball carrier forward.

That's the rule in high school.

I thought that was a rule in the NFL. I must be mistaken.

 

[Da Guru]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

It’s truly the Seinfeld of threads.

“What’s the deal with this perfectly legal play that everybody hates?”

Horse collar and clotheslines tackles were legal forever. DBs used to be able to chuck the WRs all the way down the field when ball was not in the air. Now it is only in first 5 yards. Kickoff rules have changed.

The game and rules evolve. Maybe it stays who knows.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Best play in football.

No, that would be the hook and lateral, often colloquially called the hook and ladder play. I'm also fond of the flea flicker. You never see the hook and ladder play anymore.

I’m partial to the double reverse, myself.

It’s truly one of the rarest plays (because it never works) but you wouldn’t know that listening to people who somehow get paid to call plays.

They’re extremely fond of calling a single reverse a double, and if vexes me greatly.

I think I’ve seen one actual double reverse in the last 20 years. I’ve heard PBP guys mistakenly call single reverses double about 2 dozen times.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

North Dakota has this awful play too apparently.

I saw it a couple times yesterday on college football.

MSU had a third and short and put a tackle at fullback about a yard behind the QB and he shoved the QB forward.

And good for them, I say.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

It’s truly the Seinfeld of threads.

“What’s the deal with this perfectly legal play that everybody hates?”

Horse collar and clotheslines tackles were legal forever. DBs used to be able to chuck the WRs all the way down the field when ball was not in the air. Now it is only in first 5 yards. Kickoff rules have changed.

The game and rules evolve. Maybe it stays who knows.

Yes, but those plays are extremely dangerous to the players - horse collars were outlawed because dudes kept breaking legs/tearing knees.

The abuse of the WR was getting a ton of guys hurt (although I miss the mid-air push-out days very much).

There’s nothing about the push the pile play that remotely qualifies to be mentioned with those other two. Kinda false equivalence-ish here.

 

[Da Guru]

North Dakota has this awful play too apparently.

I saw it a couple times yesterday on college football.

MSU had a third and short and put a tackle at fullback about a yard behind the QB and he shoved the QB forward.

And good for them, I say.

Not a fan of it but unless it is ruled illegal why not? I saw a Michigan game last year where Corum was stopped at the 4 and 2 lineman shoved him into the EZ..one guy was holding him up.

It has been going on for a few years before the Eagles started using it.

 

[Da Guru]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

It’s truly the Seinfeld of threads.

“What’s the deal with this perfectly legal play that everybody hates?”

Horse collar and clotheslines tackles were legal forever. DBs used to be able to chuck the WRs all the way down the field when ball was not in the air. Now it is only in first 5 yards. Kickoff rules have changed.

The game and rules evolve. Maybe it stays who knows.

Yes, but those plays are extremely dangerous to the players - horse collars were outlawed because dudes kept breaking legs/tearing knees.

The abuse of the WR was getting a ton of guys hurt (although I miss the mid-air push-out days very much).

There’s nothing about the push the pile play that remotely qualifies to be mentioned with those other two. Kinda false equivalence-ish here.

Agree but rules change. If there is uproar ands goes to the committee again. You never know.

WR rules were changed to open the passing game up more, not for any safety reason.

As long as it is legal go for it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This has the feel of thread about nothing that's never gonna end. Ha ha

It’s truly the Seinfeld of threads.

“What’s the deal with this perfectly legal play that everybody hates?”

Horse collar and clotheslines tackles were legal forever. DBs used to be able to chuck the WRs all the way down the field when ball was not in the air. Now it is only in first 5 yards. Kickoff rules have changed.

The game and rules evolve. Maybe it stays who knows.

Yes, but those plays are extremely dangerous to the players - horse collars were outlawed because dudes kept breaking legs/tearing knees.

The abuse of the WR was getting a ton of guys hurt (although I miss the mid-air push-out days very much).

There’s nothing about the push the pile play that remotely qualifies to be mentioned with those other two. Kinda false equivalence-ish here.

Agree but rules change. If there is uproar ands goes to the committee again. You never know.

WR rules were changed to open the passing game up more, not for any safety reason.

As long as it is legal go for it.

But there’s no uproar.

Unless you’re counting this topic, which I’m pretty sure the NFL isn’t.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

one guy was holding him up.

They should call it the “weekend at Bernie’s” play.

 

[pollardsvision]

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

So now it’s bad karma?

lmao I can’t with y’all.

Everybody has their opinion and this thread will go 500 pages because some people think it's a smart, wonderful play, and others find it bush league and distasteful.

I can't help the way I feel.

For you pro-tush push fellas, did you applaud Alex Rodriguez yelling "I got it" on the way to third base causing the third baseman to back off and let the ball fall to the ground?

It worked right? Did you think that was brilliant and awesome?

The anti-tush push folks view this the same way

 

[Kuz]

Seems like it is only a couple people in this thread really upset about it, mainly that Desert Power guy. Most people posting lately seem okay with it, as the "it's not football" and "it's going to cause injuries" arguments seem to have been put to rest.

I still see zero reason it is more dangerous than other plays, and it actually seems safer than most. Again, it seems odd that no one brought it up the hundreds of times it's been done to rb's and wr's over the last 20 years.

Im

As an Eagles fan that has seen every one of these plays run by that offense I’ll say this. 9 out of 10 times, Jalen has already crossed the line of scrimmage/goal line by the time the linemen and RBs start pushing him. The guy can squat the equivalent of two Dlinemen. He doesn’t need the help, frankly.

That being said I don’t really care, if it bothers you that much figure out how to stop it.

Thank you.. Perfectly well said

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

For you pro-tush push fellas, did you applaud Alex Rodriguez yelling "I got it" on the way to third base causing the third baseman to back off and let the ball fall to the ground?

I can’t really speak for that crowd, because I’m not part of it. I’m more of a “push play neutral“ kind of guy. It’s a legal play, and the onus is on the defense to stop it. otherwise I don’t have strong opinions about it one way or another. I see it is very much in the same genre of play as the quarterback sneak.

It worked right? Did you think that was brilliant and awesome?

The anti-tush push folks view this the same way

It’s an interesting question. I’m not sure it’s an adequate analogy to the push the pile play, but as a huge baseball fan, I will say that while I can’t stand Alex Rodriguez, players have been doing stuff like that for literally a century. Is it bush league? Maybe a little… But it’s a little league to let another player yelling something interfere with making the defensive play.

To bring it back to the push the pile play, I don’t see how it’s bush league at all. Is the quarterback sneak bush league as well? They’re basically doing the same thing. Every once in a while, the defense makes a stop.

If opponents don’t like the play, they should probably try harder to stop it.

 

[eighsse2]

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

So now it’s bad karma?

lmao I can’t with y’all.

Everybody has their opinion and this thread will go 500 pages because some people think it's a smart, wonderful play, and others find it bush league and distasteful.

I can't help the way I feel.

For you pro-tush push fellas, did you applaud Alex Rodriguez yelling "I got it" on the way to third base causing the third baseman to back off and let the ball fall to the ground?

It worked right? Did you think that was brilliant and awesome?

The anti-tush push folks view this the same way

I did not know about that Alex Rodriguez trick, but that is hilarious and clever. As long as there wasn't a rule against it.

 

[Kuz]

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

So now it’s bad karma?

lmao I can’t with y’all.

Everybody has their opinion and this thread will go 500 pages because some people think it's a smart, wonderful play, and others find it bush league and distasteful.

I can't help the way I feel.

For you pro-tush push fellas, did you applaud Alex Rodriguez yelling "I got it" on the way to third base causing the third baseman to back off and let the ball fall to the ground?

It worked right? Did you think that was brilliant and awesome?

The anti-tush push folks view this the same way

I did not know about that Alex Rodriguez trick, but that is hilarious and clever. As long as there wasn't a rule against it.

How are these remotelt

 

[Snotbubbles]

The Colts tried the tush-push last week. Didn't work for them.

 

[dutch]

The tush-push is the true essence of football, imo. The point of the game is to gain ground down the field and cross the goal line and you do so by pushing the line to gain down the field in ten yard increments. The offensive team has four plays for every ten yard increment in which to continually push that line. Push, push, push...first down. Sometimes the team bites off chunks of territory in one play, other times they just need a sliver of ground so they opt to push forward to keep the drive alive. The defense has a say in stopping the forward momentum they just haven't figured it out yet, at least against the Eagles. Two high safeties as a base dee are all the rage these days to stop the deep ball, well now someone has to devise a wall strategy to push back against the push.

 

[JohnnyU]

Kind of reminds me of a game I used to play with a friend when I was 9 years old when we didn't have anyone available for a game. I would take the ball and run it like a bulldozer, with my buddy trying to tackle me. We would mark a distance of 20 steps for a first down. This was especially fun if it was raining and muddy.

 

[FarFromHome]

Tebow is the perfect QB for this play. Bring back tim!!!!

 

[Snotbubbles]

"You know, when you get old in life things get taken from you. I mean that's...part of life. But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. You find out life’s this game of inches. So is football. Because in either game, life or football, the margin for error is so small -- I mean one-half a step too late, or too early, and you don’t quite make it. One-half second too slow, too fast, you don’t quite catch it.

The inches we need are everywhere around us.

They’re in every break of the game, every minute, every second.

On this team, we fight for that inch. On this team, we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch, because we know when we add up all those inches that’s gonna make the ****in' difference between winning and losing! Between livin' and dyin'!

I’ll tell you this: In any fight, it’s the guy who’s willing to die who’s gonna win that inch. And I know if I’m gonna have any life anymore, it’s because I’m still willin' to fight and die for that inch. Because that’s what livin' is! The six inches in front of your face!!

Now I can’t make you do it. You got to look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes! Now I think you’re gonna see a guy who will go that inch with you. You're gonna see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team because he knows, when it comes down to it, you’re gonna do the same for him!

That’s a team, gentleman!

And, either we heal, now, as a team, or we will die as individuals.

That’s football guys.

That's all it is.

Now, what are you gonna do?"

- Tony D'Amato, Head Coach Miami Sharks

 

[styleride85]

I believe in karma. If Jalen held a press-conference denouncing the tush-push forever, the Eagles would win 6 straight Super Bowls.

So now it’s bad karma?

lmao I can’t with y’all.

Everybody has their opinion and this thread will go 500 pages because some people think it's a smart, wonderful play, and others find it bush league and distasteful.

I can't help the way I feel.

For you pro-tush push fellas, did you applaud Alex Rodriguez yelling "I got it" on the way to third base causing the third baseman to back off and let the ball fall to the ground?

It worked right? Did you think that was brilliant and awesome?

The anti-tush push folks view this the same way

I did not know about that Alex Rodriguez trick, but that is hilarious and clever. As long as there wasn't a rule against it.

How are these remotelt

I'll finish your sentence...

How are these remotely the same thing!??!??!