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yep still a couple weeks away, either way moss isnt going anywhere imo
That is correct. According to the pinned thread at the top of the forum...February 29 - Start of Free Agency and Trading period
I would be pretty shocked if the Pats signed Moss, unless it was for a very cap friendly contract and it was for less than market value. Signing a player at Moss' age (and price tag) isn't the Pat's MO.
Thats been the sentiment for most of the year, and as far as I know, nothing has changed in recent weeks. Publicly, Moss is smiling and saying he wants to stay, and IIRC, has even expressed that he'd be fine if they franchise him.
They've softened that stance for players they believe are elite. They've paid at or very close to market for top tier talent.
David, you seem to know a lot about the cap and I am trying to learn as much as possible, so I have a question for you in regards to this. To make the math easy, if Moss were to sign a 3 year contract that paid a sign on bonus of 10 million and 4 mill each year after (12 total in base), would that be any different as far as cap ramifications go in regards to NE than if he signed a 5 year contract also with a 10 million sign on bonus, first three years also at a base of 4 million, but the 4th and 5th years escalate to say 15 million a year each?. When the Pats cut him after that third year (they would have to or restructure), don't they get hit with some of that cap money from year 4 and year 5? I guess my point is, why not sign a "realistic" contract that will actually be in tact from start to finish?
The longer the contract, the longer the team can extend the signing bonus . . . to a certain extent even if the player leaves.For example, if Moss were to sign a 3 year deal with 15 million in a signing bonus (I could care less about his base salary), the Pats would be able to take a $5 million signing bonus each year for 3 years (plus whatever his salary was each year).If they gave him the same bonus but he signed a 5 year deal, they could extend that over 5 years on paper, so initially they could take a $3 million per year cap hit until Moss was cut. So they would pay less now.A realistic situation is probably in the middle where they have 3 "cheaper salary years" followed by a somewhat inflated year and a REALLY expensive 5th year that he would never see. If they kept him for 4 years and then released him they could still space the hit over 5 seasons. (The final season cap hit for signing bonus can be split over two seasons.)There are also rules that state what percentage of your contract can be in the form of a bonus, how much you can get paid percentage wise each year, and what the escalation would be across the contract. So teams could not sign a player to a 5 year deal that paid the league minimum the first 4 years and 80% of the contract was all in 5th year salary.I don't know what the specs are on those rules though, so I can't elaborate on details of those rules.
That's not a free agent on a roster, that's an unemployed player.
The NFL contracts run through the last day of Feb so an impending free agent is under contract until then, unles he is released by the team. This is what happened in Carolina and Miami.
what he saidnote-impending and "free" of a contract
Who do you think is more important to the Patriots. Assante Samuel or Randy Moss? If I'm the Pats, I'm taggin Samuel. Good CB > Good WR
Good CB < Great WR. The Patriots were a very good team without Moss. They are a great team with Moss. I take Moss over Samuel in a heartbeat........
1) The Pats CANNOT tag Samuel again as they made a deal with him last year that prevented them from hitting him with it again for 2008.2) The Pats offense increased their scoring outpoint by over 200 points from 06 to 07 . . . based mainly on adding Moss. Even with Asante, they gave up 37 more points in 07 than 06.3) Without Samuel, do you really think the net difference in points allowed would come close to what the net difference in points scored would be if they did not have Moss back?
The Pats can't tag Samuel; it was part of the agreement he made with the team last year when he signed the tender. Same situation holds in Chicago where the Bears can't tag Lance Briggs.Snotbubbles said:
There's an article about the Pats trying to make a real effort to re-sign Samuel in today's Boston Globe. I still have a hard time seieng how they can afford both Asante and Moss, but who knows . . .
Between Brady re-doing his deal, releasing Colvin, Stallworth and a few others; and the $11-$12mm they already have projected under the cap, they can pretty easily get both guys signed for big-time contracts. It'll hurt their flexibility in 2009-2010 potentially; but not for this season.
I am undecided on what whill happen with Colvin. I know he has a big cap number ($7.6 million) and they would save $5.8 million against the cap by cutting him.However, as has been discussed for the past few weeks, the Patirots Achilles' heel is said to be their LB corps, and with Seau and Bruschi aging (or worse retiring) and no real LB depth, I'm not sure that they would want to let Colvin go as quickly as I first thought they would.Colvin, FWIW, has voiced that he will not redo his deal unless it works for him (and not just the team). He also has stated that he wants fair market value, so I don't see him taking much of a discount.I also am not really sure about his health status or prognosis for next year, so that would also factor in to the mix.There has been some speculation that Zach Thomas could have NE on speed dial, but IIRC Miami has used a 4-3 and he is not familiar with the 3-4 that the Pats like to run. But he certainly meets the other profile (older and experienced) that BB likes to see in targeting LB help.
I agree. I would be very surprised to see NE pony up the $$$ it will take to keep Moss. He proved himself to be the best WR in football this year and he is going to want that kind of money. Philly would be a good fit for him as long as McNabb is the QB.
For what it's worth. Zach Thomas was on Moving the Chains on Sirius Radio NFL Channel today with Pat Kirwan and some guy filling in for Tim Ryan. He stated that he preferred to play in a 3-4 defense rather than a 4-3. He went out of his way to deflect any questions concerning teams that may be interested in him, and he in them. The 2 teams he was specifically asked about, and that he has supposedly been linked to in the press, are New England and Dallas. He also went out of his way to complement the new Miami brain trust and how his release was handled.
In many instances I might agree with you, but certainly not here.The Patriots seem to be able to stick many unheard of CBs in there and have them perform admirably, but it was adding WRs that transformed this team from a good team to one of the best ever, particularly Moss.I mean, did anyone ever see Welker doubled all year? Even ONE TIME? I can't recall ever seeing it, because as soon as someone doubled him up to stop those 7 yard outs and ins that were bleeding them, they'd just give up the 50 yarder to Moss instead.
Yes Welker was doubled teamed some last year, but the double usually came from a linebacker.
Wow, I'm surprised the thread took this long to finally have someone hit the nail on the head.He's not a Reid-type player, not that I put Moss in the same "distraction" category as T.O., but I don't see Andy EVER taking a risk on a possible malcontent.
He did once with the guy you actually named in your post. Why wouldn't he do it again (especially considering the first time got him to the superbowl).
You do realize that the Patriots won three Super Bowls this decade before adding all of these WRs, right? If you want to call those teams merely "good teams," more power to you, although I would agree that the '01 Patriots were just good, but IMO, you can't call a team that didn't win a championship one of the best ever, so while the '07 Patriots may have put up eye-popping numbers with Moss and co., they didn't win a title. Without him, they did...three times.
Because it destroyed team chemistry and infuriated the fans during the fallout. Because it divided the locker room (which by the way has never recovered). And, most of all, because Reid and his staff have made it quite clear that they don't believe the WR position is one that requires/warrants monster dollars or focus.Again, I'll keep saying this, Moss will be tagged if they don't come to terms on a deal. Why anyone would think the Patriots would make him a lowball offer is beyond me.
Even if Moss is not franchised by the 21st deadline, there is a chance that Moss could be re-signed. However, due to league rules Moss can't officially be re-signed until the new NFL season starts (IIRC, 2/29).
Unofficially, I am hearing that the Pats are expected to franchise Moss tomorrow. And I am also hearing that NE is trying really, really hard to keep Samuel (basically asking him what would it take to keep him).Entering the numbers into my salary cap supercomputer, I suppose it is feasible that the Pats could payout $18+ million a year combined for both Moss and Samuel (but certainly that has not been the Patriots style). I still wouldn't hold my breath expecting Samuel to stick around.
Makes perfect sense. Then they can negotiate a long term deal with him knowing that he's not going anywhere regardless of how those negotiations go.
Moss looks like a priest lined up next to his two sons.
Howard Eskin begs to differ with you...I'm paraphrasing, but he said the the rumors of Lito being asked to shop himself is 100%, absolutely, no-doubt-in-my-mind, FALSE.I would laugh hard if the Iggles somehow found a way to get moss and he turned into TO Jr. That was some fun times for sure...situps in his driveway and all...Jason Wood said:
I have no horse in the race, John Clayton says it's happened, Howard Eskin says it hasn't. I will tell you quite emphatically (as I'm sure you already know), Eskin is about as plugged in as you or I but thinks he's totally connected. He's been more wrong than right about every major Philly sports move forever. He said "NO WAY" to TO, he said "NO WAY THEY'LL TRADE IVERSON" literally weeks before they did, etc...Again, I don't know if the Lito rumors are true or not, just that the rumor is out there (and Eskin saying otherwise doesn't convince me one way or another).
