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RB Trey Sermon, IND (1 Viewer)

massraider said:
Oh Great Supreme Being, please let the "player is not bad, this is a power struggle between coach and GM" conspiracy theory become a thing. 
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Sermon is toast in San Fran if you need to read that, I have the upmost confidence he will never be their RB1 on the totem pole his entire rookie contract. 

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I was eluding to this in the game thread and think @Grigs Allmoon might have not understood what i was implying. I was actually saying Kyle is hanging himself doing this but to your point, yes something is being told to Ownership when you want to play the 6th rounder but the team traded up to fill the same position in the 3rd round and that was after a number of other names were already on the roster. RB is a major part of Shanahan's offense, can't emphasize it enough but something is playing out here and I hate to be this way but I tend ot side with Lynch who I think has done a tremendous job of drafting with input from Shanahan. They went to a Super Bowl together but since then things are not working out so well. 

I enjoy Grigs posts so I wanted to invite him into the conversation and clear up my thoughts from the game thread. Also it was Sunday and I was sipping/drinking and didn't want to try and explain it. 

Cheers!
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I don't think it's all that complicated.  RB was obviously a priority for SF in the draft and it looks like they hedged by taking Mitchell in the 6th in case Sermon did not impress, or, possibly, they took Mitchell because they felt he was too good to pass up at this point in the draft.  There is precedence with Shanahan(s) - see 2012 draft where Kirk Cousins was drafted in the 4th round after RGIII was drafted #2 overall.

 
Coaches will play the best players and the players that have the right competitive mindset. I love Sermon's talent but the fact remains he (if you believe the reports) came to camp over the summer thinking he would walk into a significant role. He never earned snaps and when other backs stepped in (Mitchell), they did nothing but produce.

I have Sermon in my main league and will hold for next year, but he's strictly a dart throw at this point. 

Mostert is likely gone, Mitchell has earned the lead back role, Wilson is a wildcard, and Hasty is a COP back, so if you have the room deep on your bench, Sermon is worth an add, as even though his chances of playing a major role right now look scant, the talent ahead of him is neither deeply entrenched nor insurmountable from a talent lens, so Sermon is a classic hold.

 
I've cut Sermon every place I own him in redraft and have zero regrets and no intention of trying to pick him and he's available in most leagues.

He's not available in any dynasty leagues and I took him with pick 1.8  of an FFPC draft and have not cut him, yet. I'm not sure what trades I'll be able do do in the off-season but way things look right now he'll be the second player in my history of playing dynasty I'll spend a first round pick on that won't see year two on my roster. The other guy was Johnathan Franklin and he only got cut because of career ending injury.

 
themeistersinger said:
Any interest in Sermon if Mitchell is out this week?
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No. He's a zero on passing downs and sounds to me like his usage is mainly going to be giving breathers to Wilson. He won't hit double digits in PPR unless he gets at least one TD and/or Wilson gets knocked out early. If Wilson holds up and the over under was 5 PPR points for Sermon I'd take the under.

And I don't think Mitchell will be out long. But if you think that's a chance then I do think Sermon is worth sitting on.

 
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Shanahan explains why Sermon isn't involved in 49ers' offense

When the 49ers moved up in the third round of the 2021 NFL Draft to select Ohio State running back Trey Sermon, many had visions of the powerful back gashing defenses as a key cog in coach Kyle Shanahan's rushing attack during his rookie season.

Through 10 weeks, that has not been the case. Sermon has rushed just 31 times for 135 yards and one touchdown this season. He has been a healthy scratch twice and has not registered a carry since Week 5.

Sermon was passed by sixth-round pick Elijah Mitchell in camp and has not been able to move up the depth chart this season. During his Wednesday press conference, Shanahan offered an update on where Sermon's development stands.

“Yeah, you guys have asked that a lot and right now, it's nothing against Trey," Shanahan said when asked what he needed to see out of the rookie for him to get more snaps."Trey had an opportunity when guys got hurt and I thought he got better in each game with that. But he didn't do enough for us to put him ahead of Elijah or Jeff. And so it's pretty much as simple as that, like if Jeff wasn't out there or Elijah wasn't, he would have taken one of those roles. 

"When it came to third downs, we always started out with [RB] Raheem [Mostert] then it went to Hasty. And now we've gone with Juice. Not always wanting to put a rookie in a third-down role, so he had an opportunity when there was injuries, but those guys have come back and we still have those guys ahead of him.”

Mitchell sustained a finger fracture during the 49ers' Week 10 win over the Los Angeles Rams, but Shanahan is optimistic the rookie will be able to play Sunday against the Jacksonville Jaguars. Mitchell took over as the 49ers' lead back after Raheem Mostert suffered a season-ending knee injury in Week 1. Mithcell has rushed for 560 yards and three touchdowns this season.

Wilson Jr. suffered a meniscus injury in May and opened the season on the PUP list. He was activated ahead of the 49ers' Week 9 loss to the Arizona Cardinals.

The 49ers haven't received a big contribution from their top draft picks this season. Quarterback Trey Lance remains behind Jimmy Garoppolo on the depth chart, while second-round pick Aaron Banks has found himself as a healthy scratch on most Sundays as has third-round pick Ambry Thomas.

For Sermon, it appears he still has quite the uphill climb to become a factor in the 49ers' backfield this season.
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for the love of god can we please shutdown any/all  SF rb threads they're just so meaningless, pointless, and frivolous.

I mean, pick player a.no player b. oh wait player c is in now. there goes player d for 100 yards. back to player a.oh he's hurt on the first carry.hows player d? he's ok. great. put him in.

like abbott and costello who's on first. shees you'd think you people would learn by now. just stop with any SF player..

for a cup of coffee it was Lance lance lance..now it's jimmy g.  then sermon.then 13 other guys. just stop

 
Tanner9919 said:
for the love of god can we please shutdown any/all  SF rb threads they're just so meaningless, pointless, and frivolous.

I mean, pick player a.no player b. oh wait player c is in now. there goes player d for 100 yards. back to player a.oh he's hurt on the first carry.hows player d? he's ok. great. put him in.

like abbott and costello who's on first. shees you'd think you people would learn by now. just stop with any SF player..

for a cup of coffee it was Lance lance lance..now it's jimmy g.  then sermon.then 13 other guys. just stop
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While completely ingrained that narrative is demonstrably false  There were no Shanahanigins.  Mitchell seized the job and hasn't looked back, we are all just late on picking up that fact.  Injury is the only issue to be concerned with.

 
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Chaka said:
While completely ingrained that narrative is demonstrably. There were no Shanahanigins.  Mitchell seized the job and hasn't looked back, we are all just late on picking up that fact.  Injury is the only issue to be concerned with.
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For this season, sure. Dynasty-wise I'd say Mitchell is still a pretty risky investment. They invested in Sermon. Sermon's got physicality & looked pretty good in college. I feel like he's going to get every chance to improve in the areas he needs to in order to get on the field next year. 

I wouldn't be shocked to see a Sermon/Mitchell split next year. 

 
Tanner9919 said:
for the love of god can we please shutdown any/all  SF rb threads they're just so meaningless, pointless, and frivolous.

I mean, pick player a.no player b. oh wait player c is in now. there goes player d for 100 yards. back to player a.oh he's hurt on the first carry.hows player d? he's ok. great. put him in.

like abbott and costello who's on first. shees you'd think you people would learn by now. just stop with any SF player..

for a cup of coffee it was Lance lance lance..now it's jimmy g.  then sermon.then 13 other guys. just stop
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I still won't trade you Mitchell.

 
Anybody else considering cutting bait on Sermon?

I loved him in college.  Thought he looked decent in limited action last season in the NFL.

But Shanny hates him and he's buried on the depth chart....kinda wish they would cut him so he could get an opportunity to go elsewhere.  I have no idea why the Niners would draft a RB with a style that doesn't match Shannahan's very specific offense.

 
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TripItUp said:
Anybody else considering cutting bait on Sermon?

I loved him in college.  Thought he looked decent in limited action last season in the NFL.

Buty Shanny hates him and he's buried on the depth chart....kinda wish they would cut him so he could get an opportunity to go elsewhere.  I have no idea why the Niners would draft a RB with a style that doesn't match Shannahan's very specific offense.
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I feel blessed to have traded my only share of him for a 2023 2nd right before the FFPC draft. I have no idea what the other owner sees in him but I smash accepted, even though I drafted Sermon with a 1.8 pick in 2020. (I know what I paid for him last year doesn’t matter in terms of what I get for him this year. Just saying I don’t know the last time I traded away a 1st round rookie pick for a loss so quickly in my years playing dynasty). 
I don’t think you could even get a 3rd for him now that the 9ers drafted yet another rookie RB. 

 
IMO, I wouldn't cut yet.  (Depends on who else you have).  I don't think he's had a decent chance yet.  Plus Frisco is almost as notorious as NE for having RB's come out of nowhere to perform well. Too many FF'ers only want the immediate gratification.  I've had lots of players over the years who fail to impress in year 1 but then started to impress in year 2 or 3.  If I feel strong enough about a player to draft him, I feel good enough to hang on until I see him for a couple years.  

 
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TripItUp said:
Anybody else considering cutting bait on Sermon?

I loved him in college.  Thought he looked decent in limited action last season in the NFL.

Buty Shanny hates him and he's buried on the depth chart....kinda wish they would cut him so he could get an opportunity to go elsewhere.  I have no idea why the Niners would draft a RB with a style that doesn't match Shannahan's very specific offense.
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Nah.  The right play with Shanny RBs is to buy the cheapest one at a price close to zero, then flip at an ideal time.

 
TripItUp said:
Anybody else considering cutting bait on Sermon?

I loved him in college.  Thought he looked decent in limited action last season in the NFL.

Buty Shanny hates him and he's buried on the depth chart....kinda wish they would cut him so he could get an opportunity to go elsewhere.  I have no idea why the Niners would draft a RB with a style that doesn't match Shannahan's very specific offense.
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Sermon is starting to feel like a guy who got hot at the right time in his college career (3 gms late season stretch in 2020; 70/636/4) to get a Day 2 contract, but became persona non-grata awfully fast.  Played 51 ST snaps last year…that’s probably his path to making the team.

Writing is on the wall, but he could get cut this TC and latch on elsewhere, D’Onta Foreman style

 
He’s been a dud, no question. Did not arrive to camp last year with the right attitude and did not impress when on the field. Niners drafted another back with some ability. 
 

Nonetheless, Mitchell does not profile as a workhorse and Wilson is a baseline level player. Still worth a hold at this point, as that backfield has enough undefined roles for Sermon to be relevant. 
 

 
Ack88 said:
He’s been a dud, no question. Did not arrive to camp last year with the right attitude and did not impress when on the field. Niners drafted another back with some ability. 
 

Nonetheless, Mitchell does not profile as a workhorse and Wilson is a baseline level player. Still worth a hold at this point, as that backfield has enough undefined roles for Sermon to be relevant. 
 
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Ty Davis-Price was also added to the fold this year. 
 

I don’t have any of them rostered but, as always, there is value to be had at the RB position in SF for FF. Who will find the Golden Ticket this year? 

Edit: just saw you mentioned that they drafted a back. Somehow missed that the first time round.

 
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Disappointing first season, but way too early to cut bait.  Wish I’d left him on my taxi though. Will probably need a change of scenery. 

 
49ers coach Kyle Shanahan said second-year RB Trey Sermon “has done everything he can” and is “as yolked up as he can be” headed into 2022.

He also noted that Sermon applied several lessons from his rookie year. It's not much, but it's some sprinkling of optimism for a player who was mostly buried in fantasy leagues after the 49ers drafted Tyrion Davis-Price in the third round. Sermon is probably still a better candidate for a change of scenery than to ever top the 49ers backfield chart this season. This is a big training camp for the second-year back. 

SOURCE: David Lombardi on Twitter

Jul 26, 2022, 3:27 PM ET
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First positive Sermon comments from Shanny ever...a step in the right direction.

 
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joey said:
I don’t think you could even get a 3rd for him now that the 9ers drafted yet another rookie RB.
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joey, meet me. I just coughed up Pierre Strong (before he began practicing and James White retired) for him. I initiated the move. Strong had been my 3.02 in the rookie draft based on athletic profile. I thought I was making out just dandy when I got Sermon for him. I just assumed Strong Jr. would go the way of so many Belichick backs, which meant that he'd be locked in a committee. He still may be locked in a committee if they don't trade Harris, but there's an awful lot of smoke around that fire, too.

Bottom line is that at least I was proactive about it. :) LOL.

Let's see what happens tonight. I've heard Mitchell either wasn't practicing or playing. This is according to one reputable site I read. So you've got Sermon, Tyrion Davis-Price, and Jeff Wilson as the three backs likely to get carries.
 
Day 12 recap: Trey Sermon shows out during the final day of training camp

Running backs

Trey Sermon had yet another standout practice. Looked very impressive on a couple of reps where they ran a toss to the outside with him in the backfield. One, in particular, was designed to the left, but Sermon made a decisive cut to work back to the right side and navigated traffic to bust a big gain up the right hash.
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Sermon also got the majority of the work with the first team today, particularly during red zone and move the ball drills. Sermon looks much more comfortable in the offense, and that is being reflected in his continued progress as camp has gone on.
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I cut him in my 14 team dynasty league this offseason and I drafted him at 1.10 last year. He was promptly picked up by another team.

I am giving up on the niners backfield in dynasty, i think they are a waste of roster spots.
 
MTskibum said:
I cut him in my 14 team dynasty league this offseason and I drafted him at 1.10 last year. He was promptly picked up by another team.

I am giving up on the niners backfield in dynasty, i think they are a waste of roster spots.
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Seems very premature to me. He probably will never be a multi-year starter but given that it's the 49ers, there is a strong chance he gets a cluster of games here and there where he gets the lead role.
 

49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan said Trey Sermon is "doing a great job" at training camp and "has improved on so many things from last year."​

Shanahan in a radio interview also complimented big-back rookie Tyron Davis-Price, adding "he's still a rookie" who needs to learn the team's offense. The positive assessment of Sermon, who fell out of favor with the Niners' coaching staff in 2021, is notable after Shanahan in late July said Sermon is "as yolked up as he can be" headed into 2022. Any San Francisco running back who stays in the coaching staff's good graces could be in line for a decent workload, as fantasy managers have found out time and again in recent seasons. Sermon should not be written off as a late-round flier in redraft formats. Elijah Mitchell remains of the favorite to start 2022 as the team's primary ball carrier.
RELATED:
SOURCE: Dave Richard on Twitter
Aug 12, 2022, 10:36 AM ET
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NBC Sports Bay Area's Matt Maiocco believes second-year RB Trey Sermon is on the roster bubble headed into the final preseason game.​

Maiocco thinks that if Sermon wasn't a third-round pick last season, he'd be on the outside looking in at a roster spot. But that draft capital might be the only thing that saves his job. Sermon is believed to be competing for one spot with JaMycal Hasty and undrafted rookie Jordan Mason. Sermon has looked bad again this preseason.
SOURCE: NBC Sports Bay Area
Aug 24, 2022, 2:23 PM ET
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At this point I'm going to be disheartened if he remains in SF this year. Shanahan has no clue how to use him and seems to be forcing a square peg into a round hole. It's just not going to work. I'm hoping Sermon gets cut and picked up by ANY team that will use him correctly. By that I mean scheme him to his strengths.
 
massraider said:
Spectacular back to back posts, @Faust
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12 days is a very long time during NFL training camps. Anyone could find themselves in the coaches doghouse for the slightest of infractions. Having already served time in his coaches dirt box last year Sermon is clearly on a very short leash.

That being said, Sermon is still on my radar and I'm still considering selecting him with one of my last picks in three days.
 
BobbyLayne said:
Traded up to draft him

Such a weird thing
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I never felt like Sermon's skills were a match for the SF offense, but, like you say, they moved up to draft him, so it reasons that they either believed Sermon would transition to an outside zone scheme, or they had plans to adapt their offense to his strengths. It obviously was not the latter, and I find it curious that they scouted Sermon and concluded that he could fit their scheme. As @Ruffrodys05 observed, it is like trying to force "a square peg into a round hole".
I still believe Sermon can find some success in the NFL in the right system.
 
socrates said:
BobbyLayne said:
Traded up to draft him

Such a weird thing
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I never felt like Sermon's skills were a match for the SF offense, but, like you say, they moved up to draft him, so it reasons that they either believed Sermon would transition to an outside zone scheme, or they had plans to adapt their offense to his strengths. It obviously was not the latter, and I find it curious that they scouted Sermon and concluded that he could fit their scheme. As @Ruffrodys05 observed, it is like trying to force "a square peg into a round hole".
I still believe Sermon can find some success in the NFL in the right system.
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Either John Lynch or Kyle Shanahan kinda sucks at scouting RBs to be honest. Since their arrival, they gave a big FA contract to McKinnon, a good sized FA contract to Tevin Coleman, "pounded the table" for Joe Williams, spent a 3rd on Sermon (a predictable reach at the time, and especially odd since Michael Carter was there and a great scheme fit) and a 3rd on Davis-Price (who nobody had as a day 2 pick) meanwhile the 2 most productive RBs in that stretch were a 6th round rookie (Mitchell) and a practice squad level FA (Mostert)

I personally think Sermon is exactly who he looked like at OSU, a guy with decent size speed, who looked good (not as good as Dobbins) running through giant holes. He doesn't add much, as a pass catcher, or have big play ability. He always profiled as a backup in my opinion.
 
travdogg said:
socrates said:
BobbyLayne said:
Traded up to draft him

Such a weird thing
Click to expand...
I never felt like Sermon's skills were a match for the SF offense, but, like you say, they moved up to draft him, so it reasons that they either believed Sermon would transition to an outside zone scheme, or they had plans to adapt their offense to his strengths. It obviously was not the latter, and I find it curious that they scouted Sermon and concluded that he could fit their scheme. As @Ruffrodys05 observed, it is like trying to force "a square peg into a round hole".
I still believe Sermon can find some success in the NFL in the right system.
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Either John Lynch or Kyle Shanahan kinda sucks at scouting RBs to be honest. Since their arrival, they gave a big FA contract to McKinnon, a good sized FA contract to Tevin Coleman, "pounded the table" for Joe Williams, spent a 3rd on Sermon (a predictable reach at the time, and especially odd since Michael Carter was there and a great scheme fit) and a 3rd on Davis-Price (who nobody had as a day 2 pick) meanwhile the 2 most productive RBs in that stretch were a 6th round rookie (Mitchell) and a practice squad level FA (Mostert)

I personally think Sermon is exactly who he looked like at OSU, a guy with decent size speed, who looked good (not as good as Dobbins) running through giant holes. He doesn't add much, as a pass catcher, or have big play ability. He always profiled as a backup in my opinion.
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Matt Waldsman’s favorite RB of 2021 (38:00), 2nd favorite of the last 3 years (2019-21) behind only JK Dobbins
 
BobbyLayne said:
travdogg said:
socrates said:
BobbyLayne said:
Traded up to draft him

Such a weird thing
Click to expand...
I never felt like Sermon's skills were a match for the SF offense, but, like you say, they moved up to draft him, so it reasons that they either believed Sermon would transition to an outside zone scheme, or they had plans to adapt their offense to his strengths. It obviously was not the latter, and I find it curious that they scouted Sermon and concluded that he could fit their scheme. As @Ruffrodys05 observed, it is like trying to force "a square peg into a round hole".
I still believe Sermon can find some success in the NFL in the right system.
Click to expand...
Either John Lynch or Kyle Shanahan kinda sucks at scouting RBs to be honest. Since their arrival, they gave a big FA contract to McKinnon, a good sized FA contract to Tevin Coleman, "pounded the table" for Joe Williams, spent a 3rd on Sermon (a predictable reach at the time, and especially odd since Michael Carter was there and a great scheme fit) and a 3rd on Davis-Price (who nobody had as a day 2 pick) meanwhile the 2 most productive RBs in that stretch were a 6th round rookie (Mitchell) and a practice squad level FA (Mostert)

I personally think Sermon is exactly who he looked like at OSU, a guy with decent size speed, who looked good (not as good as Dobbins) running through giant holes. He doesn't add much, as a pass catcher, or have big play ability. He always profiled as a backup in my opinion.
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Matt Waldsman’s favorite RB of 2021 (38:00), 2nd favorite of the last 3 years (2019-21) behind only JK Dobbins
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Interesting, I didn't have Sermon as a top-5 RB in his class, and had Dobbins 5th in his. I had Javonte and Jacobs as my top-2 during that stretch, for comparisons sake.
 
socrates said:
BobbyLayne said:
Matt Waldsman’s favorite RB of 2021 (38:00), 2nd favorite of the last 3 years (2019-21) behind only JK Dobbins
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In fairness, we all miss on some prospects, but that was an embarrassingly bad take.
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I'm going to back Waldman on this. Sermon showed all of the traits of being a solid pro RB. His college tape is amazing. SF is the wrong scheme for him, well documented outside of SF beatwriters. He could very well go somewhere else and flourish.
 
TripItUp said:
I'm going to back Waldman on this. Sermon showed all of the traits of being a solid pro RB. His college tape is amazing. SF is the wrong scheme for him, well documented outside of SF beatwriters. He could very well go somewhere else and flourish.
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Sermon should have NEVER been ranked ahead of Najee Harris, Travis Etienne or Javonte Williams. Never.
 
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