Restaurant Talk - Modern Rules Of Dining (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Offshoot of the "Restaurants are expensive" thread.

And for sure, this is not for fast food or fast casual. This is an article on what industry experts (in the UK) think is acceptable for traditional restaurants.

How to eat now: 16 rules of modern dining – from dress codes to dogs

A restaurant visit should be a joy, but arguments over queues, booking deposits and cakeage can ruin the experience. Industry insiders explain what is and isn’t acceptable

www.theguardian.com

Dress Codes?
Dogs Allowed?
Adults ordering from kids menu?
Cost for cancelling reservation less than 24 hours out.
No Cell Phones?
90 minute table limit?
and more

Do you agree with the voting?

Any particular topics?

 

[3 hour lunch]

Few restaurants are in the position to turn away money, but I would love to see some sort of dress code enforced at higher end places. Rarely happens. People make so little of an effort these days.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Few restaurants are in the position to turn away money, but I would love to see some sort of dress code enforced at higher end places. Rarely happens. People make so little of an effort these days.

This is an interesting one.

There is the classic scene in Sopranos where Tony tells the guy to take his hat off as they stopped selling hot dogs here a while back.

My friend was the Executive Chef at Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill in Ceasar's Palace and they had a strict no hat rule. They asked one of the people in our party one time to remove his hat and he thought they were joking. They were not.

I asked my friend, "If Jay Z walks in here wearing a hat, you ask him to take it off?" He said yes.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There is the classic scene in Sopranos where Tony tells the guy to take his hat off as they stopped selling hot dogs here a while back.

I instantly thought of that scene. I do feel like an "angry old man" sometimes, because the wearing hats at a restaurant really does bother me and makes me think the offender is classless. With that said. I'm not approaching the person to ask them to remove it, as that's not my place as a customer and not an owner.

 

[General Malaise]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I will unapologetically bring my dog to a dog-friendly establishment and think you're over exagerating how this experience typically goes. If you got bit at a restaurant by a dog, that's a problem and I hope you took it up with the dog's owner and the restaurant.

There's nothing wrong with bringing a well behaved dog to a dog-friendly restaurant. Those of us that vacation by car with our dogs would much rather bring them to the table than leave the dog in the car.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I wouldn't bring my dog out to a restaurant (with the exception of outside dining tables where it's allowed, perhaps) but if the restaurant allows it, then you being so up in arms kind of makes you the "jagoff". No one is making you dine there.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I have yet to meet a dog owner who thinks their dog is anything but well behaved. In my experience, many owners underestimate their mutts ability to go jeckyl and hyde.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I wouldn't bring my dog out to a restaurant (with the exception of outside dining tables where it's allowed, perhaps) but if the restaurant allows it, then you being so up in arms kind of makes the "jagoff". No one is making you dine there.

Agreed and I wont. I have a strong dislike of dogs in businesses but especially food/drink places. Nasty.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I wouldn't bring my dog out to a restaurant (with the exception of outside dining tables where it's allowed, perhaps) but if the restaurant allows it, then you being so up in arms kind of makes the "jagoff". No one is making you dine there.

Agreed and I wont. I have a strong dislike of dogs in businesses but especially food/drink places. Nasty.

probably because of all the times you've been bitten in restaurants and had dogs slobber on your food.

 

[3 hour lunch]

Few restaurants are in the position to turn away money, but I would love to see some sort of dress code enforced at higher end places. Rarely happens. People make so little of an effort these days.

This is an interesting one.

There is the classic scene in Sopranos where Tony tells the guy to take his hat off as they stopped selling hot dogs here a while back.

My friend was the Executive Chef at Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill in Ceasar's Palace and they had a strict no hat rule. They asked one of the people in our party one time to remove his hat and he thought they were joking. They were not.

I asked my friend, "If Jay Z walks in here wearing a hat, you ask him to take it off?" He said yes.

I ate at Mesa Grill years ago, it was great. I think I am probably in the minority in my opinion, and Vegas is particularly difficult I’m sure. For some reason going into a nice steakhouse seeing someone in athletic shorts and a t shirt just irks me. For me it sort of mirrors society’s laziness as a whole.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I wouldn't bring my dog out to a restaurant (with the exception of outside dining tables where it's allowed, perhaps) but if the restaurant allows it, then you being so up in arms kind of makes the "jagoff". No one is making you dine there.

Agreed and I wont. I have a strong dislike of dogs in businesses but especially food/drink places. Nasty.

probably because of all the times you've been bitten in restaurants and had dogs slobber on your food.

And tripped over them and the leashes, and had them sidle up to me as if I cared about them, and yelped or barked when they saw a nemesis. Lots of reasons to not appreciate dogs in food/drink establishments.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

 

[mr. furley]

Few restaurants are in the position to turn away money, but I would love to see some sort of dress code enforced at higher end places. Rarely happens. People make so little of an effort these days.

there's a high end restaurant in the town we vacation every year. up until last year they enforced a "jackets for men", etc. policy. i never bring slacks and a jacket on vacation so we just passed the place by.

last year they removed dress code restrictions so we went. got dressed up as nice as we could (wife and kids in dresses - i wore jeans and a button down). we were easily the nicest dressed people in the place by a longshot. felt really weird surrounded by old wood, white linen, a wall of expensive wine bottles, etc. wearing jeans knowing that the year before men inside were wearing suits & ties, but even weirder seeing guys in basketball jerseys, cargo shorts and flip flops looking like they just rolled out from under a bridge in the same space.

i'm not a suit & tie guy, but getting dressed up for dinner feels special and i get the place of these types of joints. so weird seeing one of them have to completely drop their standard to keep the lights on.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One of my favorite restaurants in the world is Galatoire's in New Orleans. They have a pretty strict dress code. Collared shirts and pants. And jackets for men after 5. https://www.galatoires.com/faq

It sounds grumpy old man I know but I like it. They do have a whole rack of jackets available if you need one.

I do agree though it's a fine line.

 

[Dezbelief]

I will say all dogs bite, it's only a matter of what circumstances cause them to bite.

 

[Scoresman]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

Have you ever been to someone’s house to eat and they had a dog or another pet? Did you give them the same spiel and call them jag offs for having the audacity to serve you a meal in the presence of a pet?

 

[Joe Schmo]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

Have you ever been to someone’s house to eat and they had a dog or another pet? Did you give them the same spiel and call them jag offs for having the audacity to serve you a meal in the presence of a pet?

Good question and yes, while at my brother's place recently I made him put his dog in another room while I was there because the dog thought it was ok to sniff around me the whole time I was eating. It was obnoxious and irritating.

 

[Joe Schmo]

But his dog is well behaved.

 

[Peggy]

I think there is a difference between formal dinning and casual although the article doesn't distinguish.

Dress Code:
Formal - business casual, no shorts, tank tops or ball caps. Button shirt, levis acceptable if good quality no holes
Casual - Anything besides no shirt, no shoes no service unless you're on the beach

Dogs:
No to both. Although as a dog person I wouldn't mind for casual dinning.

Kids Menu:
Kids only for both.

Cost for Cancellations:
No for both, stuff happens.

Cell phone:
Yes for both. Formal should be on silent whether required or not. If you have to take a call get up and step out of the dinning area.

90 Minute Table Limit
No for both.

Birthday Cake:
Formal: No
Casual: Yes

 

[massraider]

i'm not a suit & tie guy, but getting dressed up for dinner feels special and i get the place of these types of joints. so weird seeing one of them have to completely drop their standard to keep the lights on.

Look at it as keeping up with the times.

Assume this is a wealthier clientle. Fact is THEY don't wanna wear jackets. These are older Gen X people, they are used to casual Friday. And certainly not on vacation. In Aspen, during the summer, you see billionaires dressed like absolute bums at sushi and steak joints. Spending $600 a head.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think there is a difference between formal dinning and casual although the article doesn't distinguish.

Sure it does. It's clear they are talking about higher end restaurants or some of the issues they discuss wouldn't be considered issues (most notably, children being allowed).

 

[Chemical X]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

Have you ever been to someone’s house to eat and they had a dog or another pet? Did you give them the same spiel and call them jag offs for having the audacity to serve you a meal in the presence of a pet?

Good question and yes, while at my brother's place recently I made him put his dog in another room while I was there because the dog thought it was ok to sniff around me the whole time I was eating. It was obnoxious and irritating.

I hope your brother threw your meal out and sent you home. I would never put my dog in another room if you came to my house. It's his house, he lives there. You are the guest. But, i don't want this to be about dogs......i feel the same way about kids. With things as costly as they are and trips out to eat less frequent and more for a special occasion, i don't want to go somewhere with young kids. I have yet to meet a parent who thinks their kid is anything but well behaved. In my experience, many parents underestimate their kids ability to go jeckyl and hyde. No, banging your spoon on the table like you are a drummer for 45 minutes is not cute.

 

[Joe Bryant]

On the dress code and general etiquette topic, I think this article is good. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23962742/etiquette-history-emily-post-manners-respect

 

[Joe Schmo]

ditto on the kids

 

[Peggy]

I think there is a difference between formal dinning and casual although the article doesn't distinguish.

Sure it does. It's clear they are talking about higher end restaurants or some of the issues they discuss wouldn't be considered issues (most notably, children being allowed).

The main photo is at a low end pizza joint.

 

[Chemical X]

Dress Codes? - No, but stay classy.
Dogs Allowed? I am open, but laws will mostly govern.
Adults ordering from kids menu? Allowed
Cost for cancelling reservation less than 24 hours out. - If not rebooked.
No Cell Phones? - No rule......but go silent.
90 minute table limit? - If this is a rule, i am not dining there.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

Have you ever been to someone’s house to eat and they had a dog or another pet? Did you give them the same spiel and call them jag offs for having the audacity to serve you a meal in the presence of a pet?

Good question and yes, while at my brother's place recently I made him put his dog in another room while I was there because the dog thought it was ok to sniff around me the whole time I was eating. It was obnoxious and irritating.

I hope your brother threw your meal out and sent you home. I would never put my dog in another room if you came to my house. It's his house, he lives there. You are the guest. But, i don't want this to be about dogs......i feel the same way about kids. With things as costly as they are and trips out to eat less frequent and more for a special occasion, i don't want to go somewhere with young kids. I have yet to meet a parent who thinks their kid is anything but well behaved. In my experience, many parents underestimate their kids ability to go jeckyl and hyde. No, banging your spoon on the table like you are a drummer for 45 minutes is not cute.

Keep in mind it was the dog that was being a nuisance to me, the guest. The dog was released on her own recognizance once we were done eating and she had full run of the place, including on my lap at times.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think there is a difference between formal dinning and casual although the article doesn't distinguish.

Sure it does. It's clear they are talking about higher end restaurants or some of the issues they discuss wouldn't be considered issues (most notably, children being allowed).

The main photo is at a low end pizza joint.

yeah, so? I mean I can read the actual article and draw conclusions. Not everything has to be spelled out - context can help.

 

[Mister CIA]

Obligatory. You know what this is before clicking on the link.

The Sopranos - Take your hat off

The Sopranos christmas gift ideas:The Sopranos Family Cookbook: As Compiled by Artie Bucco - https://amzn.to/34sw99B (SALE!!)The Sopranos Official Logo T-Shi...

www.youtube.com

EDIT: I forgot the forum software display's a thumbnail. Spoiler alert: it's the Sorpranos.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Yeah, what's the deal with not being able to order off the kids menu?

 

[culdeus]

Big NO!!! to dogs in a restaurant! I've left pubs that allowed them and I certainly don't want poochie wandering around slobbering all over the place and shedding his fur into my food. People who bring dogs to restaurants are ignorant, entitled jagoffs in my book. Whats that? your little poochie never bit any one before?!? I guess I'm the first then.

I wouldn't bring my dog out to a restaurant (with the exception of outside dining tables where it's allowed, perhaps) but if the restaurant allows it, then you being so up in arms kind of makes you the "jagoff". No one is making you dine there.

This is ********. You can be seated and some guy hauls in his labradoodle. Can I walk the check?

 

[Joe Bryant]

But not to derail, for restaurants, I think the decision is interesting.

It does seem a little easier as it's usually pretty clear if dogs are welcome or not.

So if prefer not to have dogs allowed, you know what you're getting into.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yeah, what's the deal with not being able to order off the kids menu?

According to the article the children menu is an incentive for families and is a loss leader (to some extent). If everyone ordered off the children's menu the restaurant would lose money.

 

[belljr]

Outside patio type dining that's "known" dog friendly, sure

Some rando dog in a restaurant no

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yeah, what's the deal with not being able to order off the kids menu?

From the article in the OP:

Should adults be allowed to eat from the children’s menu?​

Small appetite? Saving money? Just fancy chicken nuggets? There are numerous reasons why an adult might order the kids’ menu, and the panel struggled to think of justifiable reasons to stop them.

Important caveat: children’s menus are priced as a subsidised inducement to parents and their spending power. Restaurants would go broke if large numbers did this. “Personally, I wouldn’t,” says KS. “If you want a light meal, there are other dishes you can choose.”

“I’m torn,” says Armitage. “Imagine if you had a party of 15 in a pub and they all ordered the kids’ menu. That would be awful.”

Verdict 5:1, it’s allowable. Just don’t come crying to mummy and daddy when your local restaurant folds.

 

[Peggy]

One new thing I noticed at a recent business casual company gathering is that more and more of the younger folks are working in tennis shoes.

I guess that's ok if they're new and clean? I like to wear levis which look more formal with nice shoes. I wouldn't do levis and tennis shoes.

 

[Chemical X]

Dogs belong outside or in Your house so they can smell up and fur up your sofa and bed, not my food.

Have you ever been to someone’s house to eat and they had a dog or another pet? Did you give them the same spiel and call them jag offs for having the audacity to serve you a meal in the presence of a pet?

Good question and yes, while at my brother's place recently I made him put his dog in another room while I was there because the dog thought it was ok to sniff around me the whole time I was eating. It was obnoxious and irritating.

I hope your brother threw your meal out and sent you home. I would never put my dog in another room if you came to my house. It's his house, he lives there. You are the guest. But, i don't want this to be about dogs......i feel the same way about kids. With things as costly as they are and trips out to eat less frequent and more for a special occasion, i don't want to go somewhere with young kids. I have yet to meet a parent who thinks their kid is anything but well behaved. In my experience, many parents underestimate their kids ability to go jeckyl and hyde. No, banging your spoon on the table like you are a drummer for 45 minutes is not cute.

Keep in mind it was the dog that was being a nuisance to me, the guest. The dog was released on her own recognizance once we were done eating and she had full run of the place, including on my lap at times.

i might allow this. I'll check the tape.

 

[Wildcat]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

That wouldn't work for me. Our dog would just bark the whole time. Maybe if it's a short time it would be ok. But, our dog is a part of our family and I would let my guest know ahead of time that we have a dog. Basic hospitality works both ways. If they don't like kids, I lock them up too?

 

[Joe Schmo]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

That wouldn't work for me. Our dog would just bark the whole time. Maybe if it's a short time it would be ok. But, our dog is a part of our family and I would let my guest know ahead of time that we have a dog. Basic hospitality works both ways. If they don't like kids, I lock them up too?

This is also true which is why my girlfriend won't go to my brother's with me. They know she doesn't like dogs pressing up on her so she stays home instead. For me, it's when I'm eating that it's a bother.

 

[Chemical X]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

So, i am known to not have kids and I really am not a fan of kids. If i come to visit and am not comfortable or enthralled with your child, what is the play? Hospitality or the guest suffers?
I am of the ilk that a dog is part of the family. Dogs are not kids........I know this, both can be hyper annoying to those that don't have or like.

 

[Joe Bryant]

That wouldn't work for me. Our dog would just bark the whole time. Maybe if it's a short time it would be ok. But, our dog is a part of our family and I would let my guest know ahead of time that we have a dog.

Yes. Talking before would be the right decision then you can both make a decision on what's expected.

Basic hospitality works both ways.

I disagree. It's not an equal two way street thing. I think "Etiquette" and good manners work both ways.

But Hospitality is mostly on the host. The guests should act reasonably. But there is much more effort required by the host. It's the essence of hospitality that it's a serving thing. Not equal.

 

[Wildcat]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

That wouldn't work for me. Our dog would just bark the whole time. Maybe if it's a short time it would be ok. But, our dog is a part of our family and I would let my guest know ahead of time that we have a dog. Basic hospitality works both ways. If they don't like kids, I lock them up too?

This is also true which is why my girlfriend won't go to my brother's with me. They know she doesn't like dogs pressing up on her so she stays home instead. For me, it's when I'm eating that it's a bother.

We don't allow our dog to bother us while we are eating. We've trained him that way.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

They should open a chain called Doggo Kiddo. Every customer has to bring in a minimum of one dog or kid.

 

[Joe Schmo]

They should open a chain called Doggo Kiddo. Every customer has to bring in a minimum of one dog or kid.

And then we lock the door!

 

[AAABatteries]

Ultimately, I don't really care about any of these - to me, restaurants can do whatever they want and I can choose to either go or not go.

But to play along...

• Dress Codes? - Fine with it at top end places
• Dogs Allowed? Don't care - doesn't bother me either way as long as they don't bother me
• Adults ordering from kids menu? Allow - always thought this one was stupid. Also, I don't like charging for folks sharing a meal. Why force me to eat/order more than I want?
• Cost for cancelling reservation less than 24 hours out. - Don't care
• No Cell Phones? - Not a necessary rule, IMO - have a rule about being loud/obnoxious - I don't care if you talk on your phone or to the people you are with as long as you aren't disrupting me.
• 90 minute table limit? - Torn on this one. Ideally folks don't spend a lot of time after they are done just tying up a table. Don't necessarily like a 90 minute rule though. Maybe say there's a time limit after your last order?
• Should restaurants turn the music down? Yes, I don't go out to eat to listen to music, I'm there to eat and almost always to share a meal with family/friends and want to spend time talking

 

[Wildcat]

That wouldn't work for me. Our dog would just bark the whole time. Maybe if it's a short time it would be ok. But, our dog is a part of our family and I would let my guest know ahead of time that we have a dog.

Yes. Talking before would be the right decision then you can both make a decision on what's expected.

Basic hospitality works both ways.

I disagree. It's not an equal two way street thing. I think "Etiquette" and good manners work both ways.

But Hospitality is mostly on the host. The guests should act reasonably. But there is much more effort required by the host. It's the essence of hospitality that it's a serving thing. Not equal.

I said basic hospitality works both ways, meaning, a guest also has a responsibility to act appropriately and be in-tune with the host's environment (asking if they need to remove shoes, etc.) . But, I agree with you that hospitality is far more on the host.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The dogs are interesting.

I definitely put my dog in another room if the guest in my house is not comfortable with dogs. It's not about me. It's about my guest. That's basic hospitality.

So, i am known to not have kids and I really am not a fan of kids. If i come to visit and am not comfortable or enthralled with your child, what is the play? Hospitality or the guest suffers?
I am of the ilk that a dog is part of the family. Dogs are not kids........I know this, both can be hyper annoying to those that don't have or like.

As you said, dogs are not humans so it's a tough analogy.

Like most things, it's a balance. And how much effort / cost it takes to remove the thing the guest doesn't like. And how much "suffering" the guest actually endures.

 

[General Malaise]

I have yet to meet a dog owner who thinks their dog is anything but well behaved. In my experience, many owners underestimate their mutts ability to go jeckyl and hyde.

Can you describe your experience where a dog bit you in a restaurant? Curious how that played out. That would have an impact on me for sure. Sucks that happened to you.