What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Rick Caruso for Mayor of Los Angeles (1 Viewer)

No, Americans are just overly bloodthirsty. We have overly excessive punishments and don’t give a crap about rehabilitation. Our criminal justice system is completely screwed up. 
 

So what do you think an appropriate punishment would be?


Gotta believe you did not see the video of this crime if you are making these comments...here it is...I'm sure you would be totally fine with this if it was done to your family.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/george-gascon-walks-back-claim-about-sheriffs-involvement-in-teens-case/

 
No, Americans are just overly bloodthirsty. We have overly excessive punishments and don’t give a crap about rehabilitation. Our criminal justice system is completely screwed up. 
 

So what do you think an appropriate punishment would be?
I generally agree with your point of view on this topic, especially when it comes to underage offenders.  It seems to me, though, that this is one of those exceptional cases where the defender poses too much danger to society to let him back on the streets in a matter of months.  I don't want some kid's life ruined because he shoplifted some electronics or sold some weed.  This is different, and at least for me, crosses a line that warrants a few years away from the rest of us. 

Just saying that as somebody who is not a "lock 'em up and throw away the key" type.  Prisons are over-used, but they do serve a purpose . . . 

 
One thing that has always bothered me about the way people view crimes is that we are too focused on results instead of behavior.

Drunk drivers get off super easy. Drunk drivers that get in accidents get off relatively easy if nobody got hurt. Injure or kill somebody and things change quite a bit. 

Why? That is just pure dumb luck. 

Get behind the wheel at .28 and drive up the off ramp, yet injure nobody. 

Get behind the wheel at .08 and hit a pedestrian that is jaywalking. 

One of these behaviors is so much worse, yet would receive a much lighter sentence. 

 
One thing that has always bothered me about the way people view crimes is that we are too focused on results instead of behavior.

Drunk drivers get off super easy. Drunk drivers that get in accidents get off relatively easy if nobody got hurt. Injure or kill somebody and things change quite a bit. 

Why? That is just pure dumb luck. 

Get behind the wheel at .28 and drive up the off ramp, yet injure nobody. 

Get behind the wheel at .08 and hit a pedestrian that is jaywalking. 

One of these behaviors is so much worse, yet would receive a much lighter sentence. 
This, plus intent.

Considering the case mentioned above, I haven't dug into the details, although it sounds like the kid intentionally drove into the pedestrians.  If I knew nothing at all about it, I would suggest the punishment should be wildly different for 1) kid takes mom's/neighbor's/uncle's car for a joyride* and accidentally hits someone, and 2) kid legit steals* a car and intentionally hits someone.

* Yes, I know it's a fine line between "joyride" and "legit steals".

 
I generally agree with your point of view on this topic, especially when it comes to underage offenders.  It seems to me, though, that this is one of those exceptional cases where the defender poses too much danger to society to let him back on the streets in a matter of months.  I don't want some kid's life ruined because he shoplifted some electronics or sold some weed.  This is different, and at least for me, crosses a line that warrants a few years away from the rest of us. 

Just saying that as somebody who is not a "lock 'em up and throw away the key" type.  Prisons are over-used, but they do serve a purpose . . . 


Fair enough. Maybe he deserves a longer sentence than I posted above. You may be right and I'm wrong.

But, like you, I just hate to throw away a 16 year old kid. And if we send this kid to prison, he's almost certainly lost. Because our prisons have no interest in rehabilitation.

 
It's called a strict liability crime and acts as a general deterrent to committing the crime in the first place. 
I don't think it acts as a general deterrent at all because very few people think about the unintended consequences. 

"Dude. We shouldn't steal this car because if we get into an accident and kill somebody we will serve time" is far less likely to be said than "If we get caught stealing this car we probably won't even spend a night in jail"

If we wanted to deter crime we would put less emphasis on luck and more emphasis on behavior. 

 
I don't think it acts as a general deterrent at all because very few people think about the unintended consequences. 

"Dude. We shouldn't steal this car because if we get into an accident and kill somebody we will serve time" is far less likely to be said than "If we get caught stealing this car we probably won't even spend a night in jail"

If we wanted to deter crime we would put less emphasis on luck and more emphasis on behavior. 
I guess. I'm not so sure about that. Part of punishment upon tragic event is restitution to the victim and retribution for society. That's how I look at it, but finer minds than mine have disagreed. 

 
I guess. I'm not so sure about that. Part of punishment upon tragic event is restitution to the victim and retribution for society. That's how I look at it, but finer minds than mine have disagreed. 
This is another one of these issues in which I can’t stand the existing alternatives: either I’m for giving the police and courts tons of power and not worry about injustice or inequalities in the system, or I’m for letting violent criminals run rampant in the streets.

There has got to be a way to liberalize some of these laws while keeping the bad guys locked up. 

 
I guess. I'm not so sure about that. Part of punishment upon tragic event is restitution to the victim and retribution for society. That's how I look at it, but finer minds than mine have disagreed. 
I guess the counter to the bolded is that locking John Doe away really doesn't do either of those things.  I'm with @parasaurolophus on this in that the behavior is the issue rather than the luck of the outcome.

 
I think this view makes the most logical sense but I think the problem is that it can contribute to outcomes that seem unjust.
I'm assuming you mean the punishments would seem unjust?  If so, I'd argue that will happen regardless, as long as some folks believe punishments should be based on outcome while others believe punishments should be based on behavior (and to some degree, intent).  To use para's example, quoted below, some of see the outcome as unjust, while others would see the opposite.

Get behind the wheel at .28 and drive up the off ramp, yet injure nobody. 

Get behind the wheel at .08 and hit a pedestrian that is jaywalking. 

One of these behaviors is so much worse, yet would receive a much lighter sentence. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top