The General
Footballguy
Well?
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SEEMS TIMELY>>>Which sport do refs impact the most? (1 Viewer)
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The General
Footballguy
Always! These guys suck!!Was there a call in the (on-going) IU/Michigan game that has prompted this?
The General
Footballguy
But, seriously it is a tough choice. I went Basketball since the ref can take players off the court or out of game with their terrible calls.
Football is very close however.
Baseball with the strike zone is obviously huge but there are so many pitches it feels like it balances out.
Football is very close however.
Baseball with the strike zone is obviously huge but there are so many pitches it feels like it balances out.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
It’s pretty easily soccer, IMO. With limited scoring and it being not uncommon for a red card or penalty kick to determine winners. Thankfully, with video replay they are getting most of those correct nowadays but it’s still the most influence a single ref has.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Football. Huge plays taken away by fantom penalties, or huge plays happen because an obvious penalty wasn't called.
When the refs do make an impact, the biggest individual impacts are football plays.
When the refs do make an impact, the biggest individual impacts are football plays.
The Dreaded Marco
Footballguy
This was my "other" vote too for the same reasons.
The General
Footballguy
Soccer is a good one. I don’t really watch it that much. The penalty in the box is probably the biggest call in sports.
Not sure about pretty easily however. In Basketball the refs have very similar influence and are constantly calling fouls that are 50/50. Pretty much every other possession there is a foul. Free points on touch fouls given after a handful of calls in period or half. Players can be taken off the floor for huge stretches of game, especially in the college game, after 2 of these calls.
NBA had refs, well a ref (sure it was just that one guy
) controlling the scoring in games for gamblers / mob.
The General
Footballguy
Football is close I think. The ability to remove players from the field is so big in Basketball though.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
The Netflix documentary on Tim Donaghy was an eye-opener on how subtle but influential a basketball ref can be in a game.
The refs can control momentum and game-planning with just a few whistles. For example, if a team is going on a heater, and you need them to slow down, call a travel or a palming, disrupt the rhythm. If a team's gameplan is to work in the post against a smaller lineup, and it proves to be effective, but you need it not to be, then you start calling charges and moving screens.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This is my choice as well. They can take players off the court (technical fouls), they can change how players are playing the game (foul trouble) and they can pretty much put points on the board (free throws). I think that the latter is what makes the difference.
massraider
Footballguy
Basketball all day long.
My brother watches what I consider an unhealthy amount of NBA. Watching games with him, he can tell me how a game might go because of the refs involved. He's done it to me personally at least 3 times.
My brother watches what I consider an unhealthy amount of NBA. Watching games with him, he can tell me how a game might go because of the refs involved. He's done it to me personally at least 3 times.
The General
Footballguy
Yep. I haven’t watched that documentary but listened to a great podcast that got into that.
College basketball in particular is dictated by refs an insane amount.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Basketball for reasons already stated plus basketball is less watched than football. When a bad call happens in football it is talked about non stop for a week. The biggest ones prompt possible rule changes. Heck, people have sued over them as silly as that is. Basketball might not even be a headline let alone discussed heavily. NFL at least has to look at making officiating better because of demand and optics, basketball doesn't have to give a crap, people move on in five minutes.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was going to vote baseball until I read the reasoning for basketball and it just makes much more sense. But still -- the balls/strikes thing in baseball, though. You can't tell me the Marlins win the '97 World Series without that ump calling Livan Hernandez's pitches that were eight feet out of the strike zone strikes in the NLCS that year. That was an abomination. I've never seen games so affected by the officiating as with a bad ball/strike ump.
Jayrod
Footballguy
As a guy who officiates football and basketball, basketball is easily the answer.
There is a ton of subjectivity to basketball officiating that it is nearly impossible to standardize and be consistent from ref to ref, game to game and even within the same game. I don't know a single official who would intentionally effect the outcome of a game, but simply by adopting certain philosophies a games outcome can be easily effected and it only takes 1 of the 3 officials to majorly change a game.
Football has some subjectivity, but nowhere near the frequency of basketball, plus there are 7 or 8 officials on a college or pro game and some penalties have input from 2 or 3 guys. Also, the referee could always overrule an official if they felt they needed to.
There is a ton of subjectivity to basketball officiating that it is nearly impossible to standardize and be consistent from ref to ref, game to game and even within the same game. I don't know a single official who would intentionally effect the outcome of a game, but simply by adopting certain philosophies a games outcome can be easily effected and it only takes 1 of the 3 officials to majorly change a game.
Football has some subjectivity, but nowhere near the frequency of basketball, plus there are 7 or 8 officials on a college or pro game and some penalties have input from 2 or 3 guys. Also, the referee could always overrule an official if they felt they needed to.
The General
Footballguy
I did think of that game, the last pitch in particular is so bad
It is such an outlier though for an ump to be that bad, if they are they will get canned or not be promoted. Whereas basketball and football refs can call fouls on pretty much every play that people could argue for either way.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
it seems like soccer is by far the easiest to control the outcome of a game because unlike other sports, a single play can determine the winner more often than not. You can call a game straight 99.9999% of the game and still effect the outcome where as in the other sports you have to be making "mistakes" far more often.
soccer is also noteriously one of the most corrupt sports on the planet with plenty of refs being bought off by the massive gambling syndicates. Thankfully technology has put a huge dent into this.
soccer is also noteriously one of the most corrupt sports on the planet with plenty of refs being bought off by the massive gambling syndicates. Thankfully technology has put a huge dent into this.
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
It's unwatchable at this point.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Officiating is definitely big in all sports. The format of the question makes this virtually impossible to answer imo. There are three sports listed and then “other”. In honesty—I’m not familiar with lots of sports—so I feel like the answer choice of “other” is probably the mathematically correct answer. It’s almost like taking a golf tournament with the worlds 100 top golfers and asking who will win: the #1 ranked golfer, the #2 ranked golfer, #3 ranked golfer, or the field. If I’m looking at just the 3 major sports he listed—I lean towards football or basketball. The reason why I picked these sports is because it is very arguable that there is a potential foul or violation on nearly every play in both of these sports. In basketball, there is always incidental contact and traveling can be called on sooo many possessions. In football, there is a lot of holding, incidental contact with facemasks, and illegal contact that could be called on virtually every play. In these two sports—it really is in the discretion of the refs to how they decide they want to officiate a game. Also—both of these games tend to involve big momentum shifts—and the calls that the refs make absolutely has an impact on momentum. Out of three listed—I‘d probably lean basketball—but that lean is very slight.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Ice Dancing 
the moops
Footballguy
Rain man'esque
Galileo
Footballguy
If we want to put judges/scorers into the same category as refs, then there is a whole slew of competitions influenced more the ones listed in the OP...gymnastics, diving, figure skating, etc...Ice Dancing
I voted basketball out of the options above.
Yup. The low scoring in soccer combined with the large percentage of goals on free kicks means that the refs have a huge impact. It makes the purists mad, but I would prefer rule changes to increase scoring and make it easier to score in open play such that a refs call has a lesser impact on the outcome.
The General
Footballguy
Don’t they review fouls now in soccer in the box and on those offside calls? Not really sure how their process works. NBA has added some cockamamy challenge rule which TBH I don’t really know the ins and outs but think it is pretty limited.
Soccer is very similar to Bball in terms of refs. All the issues with impacting game flow applies to both sports, but in Bball players can easily be removed from the court. Especially in College game, in first couple minutes of a half with some ticky tack 50/50 calls. When they come back they are significantly hampered on defense. I guess the yellow card is similar to this but they remain on the field.
Basketball additionally only has 5 people on the court so the star being taken off court is very significant.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Basketball games have so much scoring and fouls called that it evens out more times than not. Sure, occasionally foul trouble impacts star players but players seldom foul out. I’ve tried finding stats but I’d be willing to be money there’s more red cards than players fouling out on a per game basis.
It’s honestly not close - games being won by a single goal is so common and on occasion that goal directly results from a call or non-call. I’m so convinced that it’s soccer that you really should just have a debate about which sport is 2nd.*
*I may be forgetting some sport that isn’t as big or popular but of the biggest 5-6 sports I still say it’s not even remotely close
It’s honestly not close - games being won by a single goal is so common and on occasion that goal directly results from a call or non-call. I’m so convinced that it’s soccer that you really should just have a debate about which sport is 2nd.*
*I may be forgetting some sport that isn’t as big or popular but of the biggest 5-6 sports I still say it’s not even remotely close
The General
Footballguy
Here’s the thing though (it really should be College basketball - I watch much less NBA) a couple fouls on best player happens somewhat frequently. That player is now off court for rest of half or significant minutes. When they come back their defense is like 50% so they don’t get the third. They pick up the 4th foul early in second half and they sit again.
Like soccer these calls are often 50/50 calls, I’d say much more so in Bball but I don’t watch too much soccer. Charging / Blocking and reach-in fouls for instance are impossible to call ”correctly” but are called constantly throughout the game. Refs are in an impossible position TBH as they have to keep the game under control.
As to scoring it is relative when it‘s a close game. A couple points here or there is the ball game in Bball, same as an 1-0 game in soccer, and fouls in basketball are free points after 6 of these fouls.
I honestly think the sport people watch the most impacts their perception of this. First, most refs all kind of suck either by ineptness and that their job is by nature ****ty. Second, their job is really hard so it’s hard to do well.
They do review in some leagues/games. A lot happens outside the box and often it's subjective on when a foul begins relative to the box. Yes you can remain on the field for a yellow card, but if you get a second you come off and theirs no replacement. In some competitions yellow cards accumulate and you have to sit out the entire next game with a when you get a second. IMO a bad call in basketball might result in 2 points or 2-3% of the scoring where a bad call in soccer usually results in changing the scoring 33% to 100%.
The General
Footballguy
They call a lot of fouls in Basketball, there are lots of free throws, and almost every close game is very heavily impacted by free throws.
Soccer makes a compelling argument. Football does as well.
I agree. I just assumed that the bad calls resulting in points in BB even themselves out due to the sheer volume.
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
It cracks me up when people (usually refs) actually argue how "difficult" it is and that they are all just trying their hardest to do the right thing. Yeah right.
That is hilarious, to actually believe that. As if almost comparing them to pro athletes and/or being at some higher level. Including morally. Um, put your whistle back in your mouth.
That is hilarious, to actually believe that. As if almost comparing them to pro athletes and/or being at some higher level. Including morally. Um, put your whistle back in your mouth.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
What?
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
Refs tend to think their job is way harder than it is and a lot are biased or flat-out crooked. And they have way too much influence. They suck.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't think any of that is true.
The General
Footballguy
Not when it‘s my team. They always get all the bad calls
Jayrod
Footballguy
So you've never tried to do it?
Gutless if so. Until you've actually tried to do it and do it well at a high level, you don't know what you are talking about.
I've passed the CPA exam, stayed married for 22 years and have 2 teenage children. Being a good basketball ref is the most difficult thing I've ever attempted.
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
Curling
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
One thing I find interesting is in basketball there are 3 referees watching 10 players in a playing space that is under 5,000 square feet. In soccer, there is one referee, 22 players on a field that is over 80,000 square feet (with 2 off-field line judges watching for certain things.) Also, since soccer has far fewer time stops, the referee is constantly running, positioning himself end to end. In rugby, there are 30 players, one ref (plus 2 linos) on a field similar to soccer. Soccer fans piss and moan about refereeing as much as anyone, but I also think in soccer (and rugby) there is an understanding and acceptance that the referee is going to miss stuff, especially off the ball.
On a side note - I like the way rugby handles VAR better than soccer or any american sport. Here's a controversial yellow card decision from a big game yesterday between Ireland and France. The ref is mic'd up the whole time, so everyone watching (in the stadium and watching on television) can hear and see what he's seeing, what questions he's asking, etc. and everyone knows why he made the decision. There is almost never any push back from players on big call like this in rugby. This guy goes through the views and explains exactly why its a yellow but not red. https://youtu.be/Xu3EMy6iphM
Here's another video showing a referee going through a couple dangerous tackle calls with the VAR ref to reach a decision, with everyone listening in so its all very transparent. https://youtu.be/4XMJOmH8aEo
Zow
Footballguy
Reffing is very difficult.
The General
Footballguy
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
LMFAO @ gutless. Strap those stripes on buddy, it's super gnarly down in the trenches. Do you pull the flag out from your left side or right when you make those big decisions (opinions)?? Talk about courage!!
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
The amount of stamina it takes is mind-boggling. Plus, you need eyesight! Some even use foresight, to make things go their way.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
Bump
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
titusbramble
Footballguy
Change my vote to football. Signed Raiders fan who was rustled at the Eagles RT being allowed to false start on every down and who no longer has a clue as to what constitutes a catch
The General
Footballguy
Pat and Geno demanding a recount
The General
Footballguy
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