Shooting In Mall In Columbia Maryland (2 Viewers)

[johnnycakes]

AK-47's for everyone

You can't even take 20 minutes off from being a complete #######?

You don't think the anti-gun people out there are within their rights for expressing their frustration with this? I mean....come on. We want to know what it will take for America to rethink its stance on gun control because if Sandy Hook didn't do it, we don't know what will. Forgive TG for expressing his emotions through irreverent choices. Guys like us are just....we're ####### tired of this ####. We've been tired of this ####. For decades. It's tragic and it sucks, but I for one am exhausted at typing out compassionate words of sorrow when these shootings happen every other week, with varying degrees of tragic horror. And yet we do nothing. Nothing.

To be fair....this could have been done with knives, rocks, metal folding chairs or frying pans......You prepared to legislate all those things away too?

Greatest argument ever.Link a single story - just one - where a person killed three people with a frying pan.

Would a pressure cooker due?

Don't you mean a bomb?

Same thing. The point is you can use common items to make weapons capable is mass killings.

We don't joke about pressure cookers in Boston anymore. Go ahead... throw one out in the trash sometime.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Is there a Medieval Times at that mall ?

No, that's down the road at Arundel Mills.

 

[Widbil83]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 1h

Investigators say gun found near suspected shooter at Columbia mall was a shotgun.

so much for the assault rifle ban.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Yeah, I am an attention whore and I have turned this thread into ####. Of course.

 

[DiStefano]

These incidents seem to be happening with greater frequency- not sure that's statistically true, but it sure feels like it...

I just did a quick search on mall stabbing, and we've had quite a few of these this year yes well. Doesn't seem you hear as much about those.Kitchen knives for everyone!

I definitely believe the 24hour news cycle, plus the country's insatiable appetite for all things gun related, particularly shootings, has pushed these stories national in far greater proportions than ever before. Plus every time a gun is discharged these days, it is a "mall shooting", instead of a "domestic dispute involving a gun in a public place". I blame the media, but even more than them, I blame the dumb herds of people who get glued to their TVs to find out every bit of info, right or wrong, immediately upon a gun shooting taking place.

The number of people killed in random mass shootings, while tragic to those individuals involved, is statistically insignificant in a nation of 310 million people. Far more people are killed by lightning strikes, it's probably about the same as people killed by dog attacks, less than 10% of those killed in bicycle accidents, about 1% of those killed in drownings, less than 10% of those killed by cars backing up, about 1% of pedestrians killed by cars, far less than 1% of those killed by binge drinking, etc. Those killed in mass shootings by unregistered guns is a fraction of that.

But because it touches a political hot button, the liberals (generally) jump all over it as if the world was coming to an end, and the conservatives (generally) rise to defend the status quo. Tempest in a teapot.

or cigarette smoking.

Yes, but I was primarily referring to things which could be considered accidental.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Well that depends on what history you want. Do you want actual history or NRA revisionist history? Please choose and I will try to answer.

As much as you dislike the NRA, they aren't always wrong.

 

[KCitons]

These incidents seem to be happening with greater frequency- not sure that's statistically true, but it sure feels like it...

I just did a quick search on mall stabbing, and we've had quite a few of these this year yes well. Doesn't seem you hear as much about those.Kitchen knives for everyone!

I definitely believe the 24hour news cycle, plus the country's insatiable appetite for all things gun related, particularly shootings, has pushed these stories national in far greater proportions than ever before. Plus every time a gun is discharged these days, it is a "mall shooting", instead of a "domestic dispute involving a gun in a public place". I blame the media, but even more than them, I blame the dumb herds of people who get glued to their TVs to find out every bit of info, right or wrong, immediately upon a gun shooting taking place.

The number of people killed in random mass shootings, while tragic to those individuals involved, is statistically insignificant in a nation of 310 million people. Far more people are killed by lightning strikes, it's probably about the same as people killed by dog attacks, less than 10% of those killed in bicycle accidents, about 1% of those killed in drownings, less than 10% of those killed by cars backing up, about 1% of pedestrians killed by cars, far less than 1% of those killed by binge drinking, etc. Those killed in mass shootings by unregistered guns is a fraction of that.

But because it touches a political hot button, the liberals (generally) jump all over it as if the world was coming to an end, and the conservatives (generally) rise to defend the status quo. Tempest in a teapot.

or cigarette smoking.

Yes, but I was primarily referring to things which could be considered accidental.

Sorry, shouldn't have quoted your statement. Just pointing out that the government has a multitude of other things that they could outlaw, that would save lives.

 

[DSP]

We need more guns, not less. It should be the law that every adult must carry

Hollywood created a vision of the wild west but in reality gun violence was very rare because everyone was strapped

The yahoos will not feel more powerful and inclined to shoot if everyone has a gun and can retaliate

The severe mentally ill will always find ways to hurt people so nothing can really be done about them except euthanize them

OK, this has to be shtick.

It is.

Nope. It makes perfect sense to anyone with basic understanding of human psychology

 

[simey]

Shooting appears to have taken place in Zumiez, a surf shop according to WBAL. Shooter came out of the back room.

Zumiez is a skate shop that sells skateboards, longboards, skate parts, clothes, etc. I was in a Zumiez last November. I had a longboard built for my nephew for Christmas. The employee that built it was very nice. I remember there was a great 90s mix of music playing in the store while I waited, and other employees kept coming over to see the progress on the board. It seemed like a happy and laid-back work atmosphere.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

There are a lot of sick people out there.

 

[RBM]

Small world to see this here. My son and I walked in to the macys about 10 steps when a deluge of people rushed our way saying shots had been heard. Didn't immediately believe them but after they pummeled eachother through the exit, I scooped the boy put of there.

Sounds like domestic issue went off in the food court and 3 dead.

I go to the mall roughly twice a year.

Holy crap that's scary.

People are ####ed man

 

[Dr Oadi]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 1h

Investigators say gun found near suspected shooter at Columbia mall was a shotgun.

so much for the assault rifle ban.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

There is no legitimate reason any civilian needs to possess a shotgun in the twenty first century.

 

[RBM]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 1h

Investigators say gun found near suspected shooter at Columbia mall was a shotgun.

so much for the assault rifle ban.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

There is no legitimate reason any civilian needs to possess a shotgun in the twenty first century.

Hunting?

 

[johnnycakes]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 1h

Investigators say gun found near suspected shooter at Columbia mall was a shotgun.

so much for the assault rifle ban.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

There is no legitimate reason any civilian needs to possess a shotgun in the twenty first century.

Disagree. Someone breaks into your home at night, a shotgun is your best friend.

 

[jon_mx]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 1h

Investigators say gun found near suspected shooter at Columbia mall was a shotgun.

so much for the assault rifle ban.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

There is no legitimate reason any civilian needs to possess a shotgun in the twenty first century.

Disagree. Someone breaks into your home at night, a shotgun is your best friend.

No one breaks in in the twenty-first century.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Names were released. Brianna Benlolo 21 asst mgr and Tyler Johnson 25.

 

[Ignoramus]

So is this a crime that took place at a store at a mall?

Or a mall shooting?

Different things.

Turns out it's a crime that took place at a Zumies.Nothing to do with another frying pan gun-related homicide.

 

[Courtjester]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:

600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,000 stroke

120,000 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

 

[Ignoramus]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,00 stroke

120,00 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of laws and stuff related to keeping known carcinogens out of our environment, preventing cancer and a huge effort to cure it. Why is it that with gun violence we should just lie back accept the notion that mass killings are inevitable and nothing we do will have any impact?

 

[Dr Oadi]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,00 stroke

120,00 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of laws and stuff related to keeping known carcinogens out of our environment, preventing cancer and a huge effort to cure it. Why is it that with gun violence we should just lie back accept the notion that mass killings are inevitable and nothing we do will have any impact?

It isnt that people lay back and accept it they would just rather cling to their guns than make America safer. Selfish.

 

[DiStefano]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,00 stroke

120,00 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of laws and stuff related to keeping known carcinogens out of our environment, preventing cancer and a huge effort to cure it. Why is it that with gun violence we should just lie back accept the notion that mass killings are inevitable and nothing we do will have any impact?

It isnt that people lay back and accept it they would just rather cling to their guns than make America safer. Selfish.

Right, and while we're about it, a number of people died in barbecue grill explosions this past year. We need to register all grills, and ban any grill with more than one burner. Those who object to this would rather cling to their grills than make people safer. Selfish.

 

[Courtjester]

Because the 82% of the people that are committing these murders are not going to be affected by any law that you attempt to pass--short of a complete ban and seizure of all weapons.

And again, you have 18% that lawfully owned their guns and killed someone, how is any law going to stop that?

It will just be easier to say, "John Smith killed Bob Smith with his ,32 because he was on the registry and seemed normal at his background check."

I get it, there is a problem and it is human nature to want to solve it, but when the proposed solution becomes more of a burden than the problem, it is not a solution at all.

Do I think we could make some subtle changes like you have to be 21 to purchase any gun? I think that is a good start. Should we focus our efforts on increasing funding to address mental illness? There you go. But just passing arbitrary laws to say WE DID SOMETHING, is not the right way to approach a problem

 

[[icon]]

AK-47's for everyone

Just picked up mine yesterday.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Why is it that with gun violence we should just lie back accept the notion that mass killings are inevitable and nothing we do will have any impact?

Because mass killings are inevitable and statistically insignificant and nothing that you suggest we do will have any impact in the grand scheme of things.

Even if you suggest something and manage to get it to pass, you will still not be happy the next time a mass killing takes place. Then you and people like you will then push for the next item on your agenda and so on and so forth...

 

[Ignoramus]

Is there a problem with people that should not have guns having guns?

If so, is there anything that can be done to address that problem?

 

[Ignoramus]

And for the record, I currently have three guns in my house. I am a former soldier with a few hundred hours on the range and I enjoy range shooting for fun and have guns for which their only purpose is self defense. In that vein, I understand, respect and appreciate the incredible, inheirent killing power that guns, unlike sautée pans, possess.

Maybe I'm alone in this observation, but I see a problem here and "whelp, there's nothing more we can do about it" is not a solution, IMO.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Maybe I'm alone in this observation, but I see a problem here and "whelp, there's nothing more we can do about it" is not a solution, IMO.

Why do you see a problem? The statistics are out there. Not only are the statistics much lower than other reasons people die, but violent crime has been going down for decades. Why is there suddenly a problem despite the fact that the statistics say otherwise?

 

[timschochet]

I dunno Court Jester, the fact is that nearly other country around the world that has private gun ownership has full registration, and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[MaxThreshold]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:

600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,000 stroke

120,000 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

This is such a great post.

 

[Ignoramus]

Maybe I'm alone in this observation, but I see a problem here and "whelp, there's nothing more we can do about it" is not a solution, IMO.

Why do you see a problem? The statistics are out there. Not only are the statistics much lower than other reasons people die, but violent crime has been going down for decades. Why is there suddenly a problem despite the fact that the statistics say otherwise?

So if you don't think there's a problem, which camp are you in? The "we have just the right amount of gun-related homicides" one, or the "we have too few gun-related homicides" one?

 

[timschochet]

Because the 82% of the people that are committing these murders are not going to be affected by any law that you attempt to pass--short of a complete ban and seizure of all weapons.

And again, you have 18% that lawfully owned their guns and killed someone, how is any law going to stop that?

It will just be easier to say, "John Smith killed Bob Smith with his ,32 because he was on the registry and seemed normal at his background check."

I get it, there is a problem and it is human nature to want to solve it, but when the proposed solution becomes more of a burden than the problem, it is not a solution at all.

Do I think we could make some subtle changes like you have to be 21 to purchase any gun? I think that is a good start. Should we focus our efforts on increasing funding to address mental illness? There you go. But just passing arbitrary laws to say WE DID SOMETHING, is not the right way to approach a problem

And again, this is simply not true. Ask almost any law enforcement official and they will tell you that full background checks and full registration WILL have a serious effect on reducing crime, because it will allow the police to isolate illegal activity. It's really a no brainer.

 

[timschochet]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Because the 82% of the people that are committing these murders are not going to be affected by any law that you attempt to pass--short of a complete ban and seizure of all weapons.

And again, you have 18% that lawfully owned their guns and killed someone, how is any law going to stop that?

It will just be easier to say, "John Smith killed Bob Smith with his ,32 because he was on the registry and seemed normal at his background check."

I get it, there is a problem and it is human nature to want to solve it, but when the proposed solution becomes more of a burden than the problem, it is not a solution at all.

Do I think we could make some subtle changes like you have to be 21 to purchase any gun? I think that is a good start. Should we focus our efforts on increasing funding to address mental illness? There you go. But just passing arbitrary laws to say WE DID SOMETHING, is not the right way to approach a problem

And again, this is simply not true. Ask almost any law enforcement official and they will tell you that full background checks and full registration WILL have a serious effect on reducing crime, because it will allow the police to isolate illegal activity. It's really a no brainer.

Yeah, cause they're not biased.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

How many Israeli policemen have you asked personally?

 

[StrikeS2k]

Maybe I'm alone in this observation, but I see a problem here and "whelp, there's nothing more we can do about it" is not a solution, IMO.

Why do you see a problem? The statistics are out there. Not only are the statistics much lower than other reasons people die, but violent crime has been going down for decades. Why is there suddenly a problem despite the fact that the statistics say otherwise?

So if you don't think there's a problem, which camp are you in? The "we have just the right amount of gun-related homicides" one, or the "we have too few gun-related homicides" one?

I didn't realize there were just two camps. That's like saying you're either Republican or Democrat. And I'm neither.

 

[KCitons]

Still wondering why we have to register our car in every state? Why would it be so impossible to register every gun? Attach fees, create jobs and let it pay for itself.

I can even build my own vehicle, as long as it meets requirements for road worthiness. But, I still have to register and license it in order to leave my driveway. Yet a person with skills (or a 3D printer) can make a gun and not be required to notify anyone.

 

[Ignoramus]

Maybe I'm alone in this observation, but I see a problem here and "whelp, there's nothing more we can do about it" is not a solution, IMO.

Why do you see a problem? The statistics are out there. Not only are the statistics much lower than other reasons people die, but violent crime has been going down for decades. Why is there suddenly a problem despite the fact that the statistics say otherwise?

So if you don't think there's a problem, which camp are you in? The "we have just the right amount of gun-related homicides" one, or the "we have too few gun-related homicides" one?

I didn't realize there were just two camps. That's like saying you're either Republican or Democrat. And I'm neither.

There's a third that says it's too high.

 

[timschochet]

So despite statistics that show violent crime is down across the board (at least our current administration tells us), everyone is all upset that this is some kind of new trend?

Not to sound harsh, but this is just like the media's coverage of the Shark Attacks in 2001. Every time a person was attacked, it was the top story on the news that night and people saw it as an epidemic. Yet, when all was said and done and the numbers tallied up, the numbers were no higher than they were the years before,

I think that (taking some of the more abhorrent crimes out of the mix Sandy Hook for example) these random shooting were 3-4 people are killed are not anything new and not some kind of trend, but just something the media latches on to and reports with screaming headlines to incite people and drive ratings.

Again just my .02.

Whether it's a new trend or not, there are ways to make it less likely, and we keep refusing to do them. One obvious means of reducing gun violence is to have background checks on all gun purchases and transfers without exception. Another way is to have universal registration of all firearms owned in this country.

I haven't participated much in the other gun control threads (maybe a post here or there), but I do not own a gun. Other than wanting a shotgun for home protection, just don't really see the need to own one. That being said in 2011 there were approximately 32,000 gun deaths--almost 20,000 of them were suicide, approximately 1,000 were accidents leaving about 11,000 total deaths (and approximately 750 of these were considered justifiable homicides). So the number is 10,000--let's put this in perspective:

600,000 people died of heart disease

575,000 died of cancer

440.000 preventable medical errors

130,000 stroke

120,000 car accidents

68,000 diabetes

50,000 flu

(if you want to play semantics, because this isn't included in the list, there were over 350,000 abortions performed by just Planned Parenthood alone last year)

It goes on to the point that homicide (and this includes frying pans) is not even in the top 15 causes of death in the US.

But yet, we are bombarded by the headlines that want to make us believe that guns are just killing people on every block, every minute of the day and this is just the worst thing ever. I know if you have a loved one touched by gun violence, it is a hard thing. I get that and I am not trying to make light of it, but in the big picture, more people die from Cancer in 10 days then are killed by guns all year

10 DAYS===why is this not the headline for every paper in country every night? Why doesn't every newscast start off with "Well another 1,200 people died today from cancer?"

And the answer is there is not an agenda that can be advanced by pointing this out and it doesn't get ratings. So all of you on here that are calling for every gun owner to come forward and register their guns--think about that for a minute. Assuming there are something like 250 million guns in this country (and that is probably a low number and is skewed because most owners have multiple guns), but honestly is asking 200 million people to come forward and register just because less than 1% of the population is impacted by something? And before someone says, "Well tell that to the mother of a kid killed by a gun-wielding maniac," I will feel bad for her, but I will also feel bad for the child that was killed by a lightning strike or a bee sting or a peanut allergy. All of which (like gun homicides) represent a statistically small number of the total deaths in this country and not worthy of a law that will impact 200 million people.

Let's say we put this great law in place ordering everyone to come forward and register, as the evidence presented in the other gun control thread pointed out, less than 18% of the total gun homicides were perpetrated by lawful gun owners. The other 82% were committed by people who had their guns illegally. So in theory, we are going to have 18% comply and the other 82% do just like they are doing now and ignore it. So what have we accomplished??

And don't even go down the road of then we would just really hammer these people when they are caught with illegal weapons because guess what? There is no room in the inn these days. Our jails are incredibly overcrowded and we are seeing a great push to release non-violent offenders as it is. Now we are going to further strain this system by incarcerating everyone who won't register their guns? It is not going to happen. Plus we have a huge backlash in this country over existing stop and frisk laws. Now we are going to further empower police to jail more minorities because they are caught with illegal weapons??

I am sad people are killed. But stricter gun control laws that impact law-abiding citizens are not the answer and as it has been pointed out over and over, would have had ZERO impact on the vast majority of the mass shootings we have seen recently.

This is such a great post.

I know you like it because it fits your political views. But while Court Jester is a fine writer, his post here is pretty nonsensical. We can't eliminate lung cancer in this country, but we can reduce it, and we have, by warning people about smoking. We can't eliminate gun violence in this country, but according to law enforcement we can reduce it dramatically, and we have chosen not to.

 

[Ignoramus]

Not that gun violence is a problem, but no matter what we do, there's no way to reduce it, Tim.

 

[timschochet]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

How many Israeli policemen have you asked personally?

Actually, a couple. But I've also read this in various places. The fact is, Strike, that almost every country around the world that has private gun ownership has full registration. And almost every law enforcement official here and internationally believes it to be a no brainer. You claim the police are biased. I agree with you. They are biased in the name of fighting crime. What is your bias?

 

[timschochet]

Not that gun violence is a problem, but no matter what we do, there's no way to reduce it, Tim.

The police say differently. Why not listen to them?

 

[Ignoramus]

Not that gun violence is a problem, but no matter what we do, there's no way to reduce it, Tim.

The police say differently. Why not listen to them?

THEYRE BIAS AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE!!!

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

They do?

First off Israel only has a 7.3% rate of gun possession (both legal and illegal)

Second, to receive a gun license, one technically needs to meet two sets of criteria. First, the basics: A gun owner must be a citizen or a permanent resident and speak some Hebrew. The person can’t be a minor and can’t have any physical or mental problems hindering him from operating a firearm. Second, one must show cause to carry a weapon, a privilege limited on paper to about a dozen categories of people whose work conditions are perilous enough to justify carrying a firearm.

Third, in 2000, there were approximately 400,000 legally owned firearms in Israel, the majority of them handguns, and the number of illegal weapons stood at about 150,000. (61.5% compliance) Ten years later, thanks largely to the new strictures, the ratio was reversed: 180,000 firearms were legally licensed, and more than 400,000 were illegally obtained, most of them assault rifles like the M-16 and the Galil, stolen from the Israel Defense Forces.

Score one for gun registration in Israel!!!

 

[timschochet]

Still wondering why we have to register our car in every state? Why would it be so impossible to register every gun? Attach fees, create jobs and let it pay for itself.

I can even build my own vehicle, as long as it meets requirements for road worthiness. But, I still have to register and license it in order to leave my driveway. Yet a person with skills (or a 3D printer) can make a gun and not be required to notify anyone.

It wouldn't be difficult at all.

All of these excuses- it would be too expensive, it wouldn't work, it wouldn't have any effect, etc., are completely contradicted by international example. The REAL reason that most NRA types don't want this is rarely stated, mostly because they're embarrassed to state it (except for a few extremists who have the guts to be honest now and then): that they're paranoid that registering guns will lead to their seizure and the imposition of a government dictatorship.

 

[timschochet]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

They do?

First off Israel only has a 7.3% rate of gun possession (both legal and illegal)

Second, to receive a gun license, one technically needs to meet two sets of criteria. First, the basics: A gun owner must be a citizen or a permanent resident and speak some Hebrew. The person can’t be a minor and can’t have any physical or mental problems hindering him from operating a firearm. Second, one must show cause to carry a weapon, a privilege limited on paper to about a dozen categories of people whose work conditions are perilous enough to justify carrying a firearm.

Third, in 2000, there were approximately 400,000 legally owned firearms in Israel, the majority of them handguns, and the number of illegal weapons stood at about 150,000. (61.5% compliance) Ten years later, thanks largely to the new strictures, the ratio was reversed: 180,000 firearms were legally licensed, and more than 400,000 were illegally obtained, most of them assault rifles like the M-16 and the Galil, stolen from the Israel Defense Forces.

Score one for gun registration in Israel!!!

What is your source for the bolded? Because it contradicts everything I've been reading and been told. If your source is legit (not from the NRA or pro gun sites, which I do NOT trust) then I will absolutely reassess what I have written about gun registration.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

How many Israeli policemen have you asked personally?

Actually, a couple. But I've also read this in various places. The fact is, Strike, that almost every country around the world that has private gun ownership has full registration. And almost every law enforcement official here and internationally believes it to be a no brainer. You claim the police are biased. I agree with you. They are biased in the name of fighting crime. What is your bias?

Tim,

I'm sick of your "every other country" bull####. We didn't come to America and found this great country to be LIKE other countries. We wanted to get the hell away from them. And I kind of wish we still had that attitude. If you want to be like Israel, f'ing move there. Or France. I don't care. And I don't care if they want to disarm their citizens. We were founded in direct opposition to that sort of rhetoric so it's not a very persuasive argument.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

They do?

First off Israel only has a 7.3% rate of gun possession (both legal and illegal)

Second, to receive a gun license, one technically needs to meet two sets of criteria. First, the basics: A gun owner must be a citizen or a permanent resident and speak some Hebrew. The person can’t be a minor and can’t have any physical or mental problems hindering him from operating a firearm. Second, one must show cause to carry a weapon, a privilege limited on paper to about a dozen categories of people whose work conditions are perilous enough to justify carrying a firearm.

Third, in 2000, there were approximately 400,000 legally owned firearms in Israel, the majority of them handguns, and the number of illegal weapons stood at about 150,000. (61.5% compliance) Ten years later, thanks largely to the new strictures, the ratio was reversed: 180,000 firearms were legally licensed, and more than 400,000 were illegally obtained, most of them assault rifles like the M-16 and the Galil, stolen from the Israel Defense Forces.

Score one for gun registration in Israel!!!

What is your source for the bolded? Because it contradicts everything I've been reading and been told. If your source is legit (not from the NRA or pro gun sites, which I do NOT trust) then I will absolutely reassess what I have written about gun registration.

No you won't. You'll just find another bs argument to supposedly support it, since you're incapable of forming your own.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Not that gun violence is a problem, but no matter what we do, there's no way to reduce it, Tim.

Mall was a gun-free zone - do you want to pass something to make it even more illegal to bring a gun there?

Weapon used was a shotgun - are you proposing to ban shotguns?

All I hear is a lot of whining about how nobody will accept your solutions. Perhaps if you were to propose something that had some weight that directly influences this event somebody might listen.

 

[timschochet]

Just checked- according to gunpolicy.org, the total number of guns privately owned in Israel is around 500,000, and the total number of guns registered in Israel is 400,000- 80%. So again, I'm questioning 5 Digit's information.

 

[timschochet]

Gun owners like to tout Israel as a society where everyone owns guns and there is very little gun violence. But ask any Israeli policeman, and they will tell you that the main reason for the lack of fun violence is that every gun is registered and a background check is performed on every purchase. Again, it's really a no brainer.

How many Israeli policemen have you asked personally?

Actually, a couple. But I've also read this in various places. The fact is, Strike, that almost every country around the world that has private gun ownership has full registration. And almost every law enforcement official here and internationally believes it to be a no brainer. You claim the police are biased. I agree with you. They are biased in the name of fighting crime. What is your bias?

Tim,

I'm sick of your "every other country" bull####. We didn't come to America and found this great country to be LIKE other countries. We wanted to get the hell away from them. And I kind of wish we still had that attitude. If you want to be like Israel, f'ing move there. Or France. I don't care. And I don't care if they want to disarm their citizens. We were founded in direct opposition to that sort of rhetoric so it's not a very persuasive argument.