Snake Drafters - rules adjustments (1 Viewer)

[The Dude]

I don't mind the old school snake draft. Just wondering how leagues are dealing with top heavy first rounds? Playoff teams are coming in disproportionately high based on early picks.

And I respect you pro auction guys (which I am) but the answer I am not looking for is to convert to auction.

 

[Gally]

That type of stuff goes in streaks. Just because it may have happened last year (didn't seem that way in my leagues) doesn't mean it will happen this year. There is nothing really to change.

 

[TomServo]

The reversing snake draft evens it out a lot more. 1-10,10-1.10-1,1-10,1-10,etc.

 

[Soulfly3]

Playoff teams are coming in disproportionately high based on early picks.

How often does the "stacked" looking roster pan out?

 

[BobbyLayne]

3rd round reversal helps alleviate that, right?

I've won four titles in my main league. Draft order of those teams:

1. 2007 1st
2. 2013 9th
3. 2015 4th
4. 2023 2nd

Other Champs:

• 2022 2nd
• 2021 10th
• 2020 9th
• 2019 1st
• 2018 6th
• 2017 12th
• 2016 4th
• 2014 9th
• 2012 6th
• 2011 10th
• 2010 4th
• 2009 9th
• 2008 3rd
• 2006 6th
• 2005 7th

19 years 12 Teams:

1. 1st 2
2. 2nd 2
3. 3rd 1
4. 4th 3
5. 5th 0
6. 6th 3
7. 7th 1
8. 8th 0
9. 9th 4
10. 10th 2
11. 11th 0
12. 12th 1

5 from the first quarter, 6 from the second quarter, 5 from the third quarter, 3 from the last quarter.
8 from the first third, 4 from the middle third, 7 from the last third.
11 from the first half, 8 from the second half.

 

[The Dude]

3rd round reversal helps alleviate that, right?

That reads as possible sarcasm. Are you doing that in both leagues you noted?

 

[greenmountaingoat]

When I was obsessed about this topic a few years ago, it was based on value-above type analysis which showed very little drop-off during rounds 2 and 4-- compared to rounds 1and 3. The biggest drop off of course being round 1. But I found that I could still sort-of game the numbers through mid-round picks and see who fell to me to figure out which later round guys could make up for it.

I feel like I post this once a week but-- injuries, other types of luck and your waiver wire work will have a greater impact on the season than your draft so don't stress. Also, a good reason to stay out of redraft leagues for big money. I'd have a problem starting at a disadvantage if it was for $500.

3rd round reversal should in effect help balance the starting positions of the teams. There are a few articles out there. I did my own work on it but found that it was sort of a waste of time after the bullets started flying.

 

[BobbyLayne]

3rd round reversal helps alleviate that, right?

That reads as possible sarcasm. Are you doing that in both leagues you noted?

we don't do TRR in my main league, but I've played in leagues that do - I think it's an interesting twist



I don't really subscribe to the theory you have to land a particular draft pick to be a serious contender

we think we know which players are primed to breakout but we don't

I'm sure you've done that exercise where you look at your league's draft results after 2 or 3 weeks - massive dissonance

then at YE players always emerge to be league winners

in season management is ultimately the difference between good and great seasons

(plus the luck factor once the playoffs start but that's another thread....)

 

[cheese]

In the best ball world, this dynamic is proving to be extreme in a way we’ve never seen it. It’s such a crapshoot after pick6 that almost any combo you like on the back half of the board is possible for CMC owners to also get at the 2/3 in different drafts. So you end up playing the same team minus CMC (or Lamb etc).

In home leagues, I don’t see it being so dramatic for a couple reasons. People like RBs more in home leagues which will push Hall, Bijon, Gibbs closer to the top tier. Also, the nature of h2h and playoffs mean starting with a slightly “worse” team is just not that big of a deal.

Overall though, you want to pick top6 this season and it’s honestly not close in any kind of PPR format.

ETA- Even though I like 3RR, I don't know how much I would change just on the dynamics of 1 particular year. Last year, picking late seemed fine preseason and ended up fine. Next year might be right back to that.

 

[nittanylion]

IMHO, there is no need to tweak the standard snake format with 3rd Round Reversal in Leagues comprised of 12 Teams, or fewer.

...and although maybe not for this Thread, it's also M(very strong)HO that there's no suitably equitable way to distribute Players across a League larger than 12 Teams, other than an auction, unless those larger Leagues are Best Ball Format.

I've been competing in multiple Leagues in both the local and national spaces since 1994, almost always for a pretty decent amount of money, and performed pretty well out of every draft position from 1-12.

Ultimately, my optimal solution is to play in Leagues that prioritize high-quality Managers over everything else. Rulesets (starting lineups and scoring systems) can be tweaked in countless ways to accomodate League size. Can only find a half-dozen passionate, knowledgeable Managers? Go with a 6-Team League with large starting lineups and larger rosters. 8, 10, same thing.

Rules can accomdate any League size. Finding quality Owners is the toughest part, but a League comprised of such Owners solves many issues such as this through level of competition.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

I know you said no auction, but here's an auction concept for you anyway

An auction / snake hybrid, where the auction sets the draft order of the snake draft, rather than leaving it to pure chance.

First pick goes up for bid, where the bid is how much of your FAAB budget you're willing to sacrifice for the #1 spot. This format could include the 3rd round reversal, making the top pick less valuable (or even the end of round 1 more coveted), but my league has always done this based on a standard snake format.

Winning bid comes in, that person is locked in at the 1-spot, less their FAAB bid for the season, and will proceed to make the first selection. Keep on going down the line until you reach the point in the 1st round where no bids come forward. Skip that spot and move on to the bidding for the following spots, in case there are spots further down that are more coveted, even without knowing who will be available. Once you're done trying to coax FAAB bids for all the selections, you will then do a random draw to assign the open draft slots to the remaining players that didn't want to spend any FAAB to determine their draft slot. Proceed with the snake draft per usual from there.

My league generally seems to prefer the casual aspect of a snake draft over an auction, but this bidding concept to determine the draft order of the snake has been well received since its inception. No champion has ever elected to revert back to a luck of the draw snake. It at least gives teams some control to go after their top pick, while maintaining the ease of a snake draft.

 

[Zow]

In one of my bigger leagues we use some formula that is supposedly supposed to address the top heavy concerns. I forget what it's called but it goes something like this:

1.1 - 1.12 like normal

2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, 2.10, 2.11, 2.12, 2.1, 2.2,

3.10, 3.11, 3,12, 3.1, etc.

Or some similar type formula where it's not a traditional snake and nobody is really ever picking two in a row.

 

[The Dude]

I know you said no auction, but here's an auction concept for you anyway

An auction / snake hybrid, where the auction sets the draft order of the snake draft, rather than leaving it to pure chance.

First pick goes up for bid, where the bid is how much of your FAAB budget you're willing to sacrifice for the #1 spot. This format could include the 3rd round reversal, making the top pick less valuable (or even the end of round 1 more coveted), but my league has always done this based on a standard snake format.

Winning bid comes in, that person is locked in at the 1-spot, less their FAAB bid for the season, and will proceed to make the first selection. Keep on going down the line until you reach the point in the 1st round where no bids come forward. Skip that spot and move on to the bidding for the following spots, in case there are spots further down that are more coveted, even without knowing who will be available. Once you're done trying to coax FAAB bids for all the selections, you will then do a random draw to assign the open draft slots to the remaining players that didn't want to spend any FAAB to determine their draft slot. Proceed with the snake draft per usual from there.

My league generally seems to prefer the casual aspect of a snake draft over an auction, but this bidding concept to determine the draft order of the snake has been well received since its inception. No champion has ever elected to revert back to a luck of the draw snake. It at least gives teams some control to go after their top pick, while maintaining the ease of a snake draft.

I was thinking about an auction on draft spots but did not consider using FAAB - good idea.

Agree on the casual aspect and also the variation in process as most are auctions

 

[Gally]

I don't really subscribe to the theory you have to land a particular draft pick to be a serious contender

we think we know which players are primed to breakout but we don't

This is why I believe the snake draft is just fine. Unless the draft goes exactly as to how the players ultimately score there are always misses and unexpected hits that render the "fairness" of the draft style meaningless. The bolded is the most important part. Nobody knows these things. Draft your team and hope you did well then keep managing and pray schedule luck looks at you kindly. It's all a crapshoot anyway.

 

[Scoresman]

Hot Dog eating contest.

 

[rschroeder1]

The anecdotal evidence I can offer is that in a league entering its 22nd year, the first pick has not been a magic formula for playoff berths or championships. Rather, the seeming stability of mid round picks has produced the most playoff spots and championships. The last pick in the first round has actually been a pretty successful position to be in.

I understand the underpinning of auction drafts, but at the same time I have looked at the results of friends' auction drafts and seen people throw money hand over fist at the hyped players of the moment. Again, my experiences are anecdotal, but my observations have been that auction drafts are simply a different method of regulating the overall madness and uncertainty of fantasy football.