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So how do we get out of this mess? (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
Yes it will. I suspect by a lot of us. 

There are a group of people here who would love for the PSF to be taken away. They are the same people who deliberately attempt to sabotage all serious discussion, hoping to create chaos that will make Joe so sick and tired of the whole back and forth that he pulls the plug. They appear to be close to their goal. 
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And why do you think the want it taken away?

And who are they?

If you are making an accusation you should give your reason as to why and who.

 
Summer Wheat said:
And why do you think the want it taken away?

And who are they?

If you are making an accusation you should give your reason as to why and who.
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No thank you. Not interested in naming names. I’ve said my piece. Obviously several people disagree. Rather strenuously in fact, which is telling. 

 
Stealthycat said:
Joe I lived in Cabot, I drive by several times a week .... our area is piled with trash on the roads ... people like you and me might not trash but even with fines, many people DO

if we can't stop them from doing that - if we can't keep cigarette smokers from the simplest of things like tossing cig butt's out the window .... simple simple things .... we have zero hope of stopping racist thoughts, hate, discrimination, crimes, envy, jealousy and all the things like that which are killing out nation
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I'm saying by and large, we changed how we view littering. It's not gone. But we changed it. 

I think we can do better in other areas. 

But honestly, what's the alternative? Just say we're doomed? I'm not buying that. 

 
Da Guru said:
The PSF reminds me a a fresh spring lake that has been slowly polluted over time. Now the water is so toxic and been poisoned for so long that it can`t ever be clean again.

The same people start the same type of threads over and over again with everyone knowing what the end result will be.  There is no serious dicussion here anymore.  It is my side is right and your side is wrong.  You can flip that back and forth and add in subtle trolling and there you have the PSF.  To be honest suprised JB has kept it this long as he was going to shut it down a couple of times awhile back.
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Good description of what has happened to this forum 

 
Summer Wheat said:
:confused:   That happens enough.  But I was asking Timmy.
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It’s a good enough answer. I don’t have much to add, except that some people just like to cause chaos whatever the outcome. The claim that “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” has, for some, it’s own level of amused satisfaction; no other reason is necessary. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s a good enough answer. I don’t have much to add, except that some people just like to cause chaos whatever the outcome. The claim that “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” has, for some, it’s own level of amused satisfaction; no other reason is necessary. 
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Still not understanding the "we" part as all sides are bickering non-stop and seem to enjoy it.

If it is crashed it won`t be because of that at all. 

 It has been in decline for some time now from all sides and views. It is not up to us if Joe decides it is just not worth it anymore.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I'm saying by and large, we changed how we view littering. It's not gone. But we changed it. 

I think we can do better in other areas. 

But honestly, what's the alternative? Just say we're doomed? I'm not buying that. 
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the OP suggested boycott media, Time for term limits, Enough with the activism, END IDENTITY POLITICS

I don't disagree with the above but they cannot happen until American's themselves change in their hearts, right ? 

isn't the Fed Govt really just a reflection of the soul of America ?  the lying, cheating, manipulating, money hungry, selfish politicians .... they are us, are they not ? that's what American's are in secret, behind closed doors

like I said, its easy to stop littering ... its hard to stop being a liar, stop being selfish, stop being hateful ...... and we can't even get people to stop the easy things

unless we get the people to chance, they'll never get the hard things addressed 

 
timschochet said:
It’s a good enough answer. I don’t have much to add, except that some people just like to cause chaos whatever the outcome. The claim that “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” has, for some, it’s own level of amused satisfaction; no other reason is necessary. 
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I honestly don't feel anyone feels that way.

But then again, you accused the Jan 6th folks of all being murderers so I'm not surprised you might think the worst of everyone.

 
timschochet said:
It’s a good enough answer. I don’t have much to add, except that some people just like to cause chaos whatever the outcome. The claim that “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” has, for some, it’s own level of amused satisfaction; no other reason is necessary. 
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Everyone has their opinion and you're obviously entitled to yours. But the “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” is a total non factor in my opinion. I don't see any of that at all. 

And I know people like to frame this as one side doing all the damage.

I don't see it that way here. This forum can be terrible at times because of all sides. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Everyone has their opinion and you're obviously entitled to yours. But the “Footballguys had a political forum and we crashed it” is a total non factor in my opinion. I don't see any of that at all. 

And I know people like to frame this as one side doing all the damage.

I don't see it that way here. This forum can be terrible at times because of all sides. 
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There have been some bizarre statements made by Tim in the past, but this one ranks very high if not at the top.  One of the most absurd things I have read here.

 
Da Guru said:
There have been some bizarre statements made by Tim in the past, but this one ranks very high if not at the top.  One of the most absurd things I have read here.
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Maybe...but there will definitely be some blaming and possible bragging if this place goes away.  Easy to move past and ignore it...but most certainly some will be doing so.

 
Da Guru said:
There have been some bizarre statements made by Tim in the past, but this one ranks very high if not at the top.  One of the most absurd things I have read here.
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I differ with Tim on lots of things but I don't think he's an outlier on this.

I think there are some people who mistake challenging the majority opinion as trying to crash the forum. 

 
And to be clear, I'd much rather people be cool to each other and dial the snark and condescension back and for us to have better discussions. 

 
sho nuff said:
Maybe...but there will definitely be some blaming and possible bragging if this place goes away.  Easy to move past and ignore it...but most certainly some will be doing so.
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Maybe but that is not even near my thought process.  Where would this celebration take place? Would not be here.

 
Da Guru said:
Maybe but that is not even near my thought process.  Where would this celebration take place? Would not be here.
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Id guess a few comments here or there in the FFA as a response to a post that has nothing to do with it.  Something along the lines of "yeah, well you and your buddies got the Politics forum shut down" type of thing.  Definitely some gloating on another board I would guess.  Don't know...haven't even been over there in over a year.

 
sho nuff said:
Id guess a few comments here or there in the FFA as a response to a post that has nothing to do with it.  Something along the lines of "yeah, well you and your buddies got the Politics forum shut down" type of thing.  Definitely some gloating on another board I would guess.  Don't know...haven't even been over there in over a year.
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You’re speculating about something that might happen somewhere you claim you haven’t visited in over a year?  Quite odd 

 
sho nuff said:
Id guess a few comments here or there in the FFA as a response to a post that has nothing to do with it.  Something along the lines of "yeah, well you and your buddies got the Politics forum shut down" type of thing.  Definitely some gloating on another board I would guess.  Don't know...haven't even been over there in over a year.
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So who are you accusing?  If you refuse to name posters at least say what side is doing this.  
 

This and Tim’s post seem poisonous to me.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
So who are you accusing?  If you refuse to name posters at least say what side is doing this.  
 

This and Tim’s post seem poisonous to me.  
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Im not accusing anyone.

I did not claim people are doing it...Im guessing people would.  Who?  Don't know.  Its my opinion of what would happen.  But not a reason not to shut it down...its easy to deal with and ignore.

 
sho nuff said:
Im not accusing anyone.

I did not claim people are doing it...Im guessing people would.  Who?  Don't know.  Its my opinion of what would happen.  But not a reason not to shut it down...its easy to deal with and ignore.
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So just speculation that there are bad actors that cause the problems?  Can you please cut the  :pokey:  going forward?

 
sho nuff said:
Id guess a few comments here or there in the FFA as a response to a post that has nothing to do with it.  Something along the lines of "yeah, well you and your buddies got the Politics forum shut down" type of thing.  Definitely some gloating on another board I would guess.  Don't know...haven't even been over there in over a year.
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This whole thing started because Joe the owner wondered if the PSF was worth the trouble. Not us.

I think he meant from everyone as he has said that many times in the past.

Some people start threads here just to get responses and a rise out of others. That really does not happen in the Shark Pool and FFA.

 
knowledge dropper said:
So just speculation that there are bad actors that cause the problems?  Can you please cut the  :pokey:  going forward?
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I didn't say cause the problems.  But speculation that some would take joy in it...yeah.

  It was about the point tim made (even if I don't agree with all of what he said).  

As Ive said...still not a reason to keep this place around because its easy to move past such posts.  

 
Da Guru said:
This whole thing started because Joe the owner wondered if the PSF was worth the trouble. Not us.

I think he meant from everyone as he has said that many times in the past.

Some people start threads here just to get responses and a rise out of others. That really does not happen in the Shark Pool and FFA.
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I get that...but there is plenty of snark in those places.  Now if this place goes away, posters from here will go somewhere.  And some...Im guessing...won't be able to help themselves and will still get snarky in a response to people in the FFA.  I don't think that is all that controversial of a guess.  Its going to happen.  Someone is going to let their thoughts about someone from here affect something they post elsewhere.  I don't think its a big thing...but Im surprised anyone would think that some of the adversarial behavior from here would not seep into other conversations.

 
sho nuff said:
I get that...but there is plenty of snark in those places.  Now if this place goes away, posters from here will go somewhere.  And some...Im guessing...won't be able to help themselves and will still get snarky in a response to people in the FFA.  I don't think that is all that controversial of a guess.  Its going to happen.  Someone is going to let their thoughts about someone from here affect something they post elsewhere.  I don't think its a big thing...but Im surprised anyone would think that some of the adversarial behavior from here would not seep into other conversations.
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Everybody will stay and just talk about football. Those who don`t are not their target audience anyway.

I think everyone here found FBGs and joined because of FF talk, football talk in general, and The Shark Pool. Not for political debates.

 
Da Guru said:
Everybody will stay and just talk about football. Those who don`t are not their target audience anyway.

I think everyone here found FBGs and joined because of FF talk, football talk in general, and The Shark Pool. Not for political debates.
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I agree thats how people found it.  But how many participate in here also do so in the other forums now?

 
Joe Bryant said:
I differ with Tim on lots of things but I don't think he's an outlier on this.

I think there are some people who mistake challenging the majority opinion as trying to crash the forum. 
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Just to be clear: in terms of who is posting, the majority opinion in this forum, IMO, is conservative. At least since Joe Biden took office. 

 
rustycolts said:
Sho likes to fish so he is aok in my book.
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Fishing for real...yes.  On here.  Nah.

Did just score a new fly rod (well...really old one).  Found amongst things from my grandmother when she passed in 2020 (not covid...just really old).  It was a fly rod my grandfather had put together long long long ago.  My uncle knew I loved trout fishing so he set it aside for me this summer and my step-mom got it to me while we were in Wisconsin visiting for Christmas.   Looks to be in great shape...probably 50s-60s time period we think.  Cool as I don't have a ton from that grandfather to have and pass down...plus a true vintage set up will be pretty cool to have.

 
sho nuff said:
Fishing for real...yes.  On here.  Nah.

Did just score a new fly rod (well...really old one).  Found amongst things from my grandmother when she passed in 2020 (not covid...just really old).  It was a fly rod my grandfather had put together long long long ago.  My uncle knew I loved trout fishing so he set it aside for me this summer and my step-mom got it to me while we were in Wisconsin visiting for Christmas.   Looks to be in great shape...probably 50s-60s time period we think.  Cool as I don't have a ton from that grandfather to have and pass down...plus a true vintage set up will be pretty cool to have.
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Man that is awesome hang onto it believe it or not could be worth a little something someday. Any old Flys? I use to love watching my grandfather make his flys.

 
rustycolts said:
Man that is awesome hang onto it believe it or not could be worth a little something someday. Any old Flys? I use to love watching my grandfather make his flys.
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Unfortunately no flys.

Definitely holding on to this...having a local shop check it out to try and date it better and let me know what condition its in and what all I would need to use it again.  

Ive actually not fly fished yet...so will be a learning experience as well.  Been wanting to try and the two guys I fish with...we are talking about taking a fishing trip out west to fly fish some.

 
I will stop talking about fishing. I know it's off topic just can't help myself. I personally gave up on fly fishing. I can barely talk and walk at the same time just not coordinated enough. I love to watch the guys down here fly fish for bass. Fly fisherman are for real. I'm just a wannabe when it comes to those guys.

 
timschochet said:
Just to be clear: in terms of who is posting, the majority opinion in this forum, IMO, is conservative. At least since Joe Biden took office. 
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So I'm clear, you're saying the majority of the people posting in our Political Forum are conservative since Joe Biden took office?

 
Joe Bryant said:
So I'm clear, you're saying the majority of the people posting in our Political Forum are conservative since Joe Biden took office?
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The majority of posts are conservative, IMO, yes. I have no idea about the majority of people. Obviously a few people can make a LOT of posts by themselves (I’m a clear example, LOL). 

 
timschochet said:
The majority of posts are conservative, IMO, yes. I have no idea about the majority of people. Obviously a few people can make a LOT of posts by themselves (I’m a clear example, LOL). 
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Thanks. Do you have anything objective to base this on or is it just a "feel" thing?

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. Do you have anything objective to base this on or is it just a "feel" thing?
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Well I’m here a lot, Joe. Way too much, most people would say. And I read a lot of these threads and in most of them, the conservative posts outweigh the liberal ones by significant amounts. 
But no that is just my impression. I haven’t gone around counting numbers of posts; I’m a nerd for sure, but not THAT much of a nerd. 

 
timschochet said:
Well I’m here a lot, Joe. Way too much, most people would say. And I read a lot of these threads and in most of them, the conservative posts outweigh the liberal ones by significant amounts. 
But no that is just my impression. I haven’t gone around counting numbers of posts; I’m a nerd for sure, but not THAT much of a nerd. 
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Thanks. I haven't really thought about it but I will say I haven't though this forum was dominated by conservative posts.

But you also think Matt Tiabbi is a radical leftist so I'm not sure how much I trust you on this already... ;)  

Joke. All good. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I haven't really thought about it but I will say I haven't though this forum was dominated by conservative posts.

But you also think Matt Tiabbi is a radical leftist so I'm not sure how much I trust you on this already... ;)  

Joke. All good. 
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Just a quick correction- I wouldn’t  say dominated. I would say significant majority. Little bit of a distinction but still. 
 

In any case I was responding to your earlier post about “majority of posts”. I’m not complaining- it wouldn’t matter to me if conservatives dominated this forum by 100-1. So long as everyone on all sides has the freedom to post, who cares? 

 
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Just saw Dave Ramsey trending on Twitter.  When I looked to see why, it appears he's being drug for adjusting his rental rates to market and being called out on his Christian faith for doing so.  I think this kind of thing ties in to the split today and part of why our divide is so vast. 

In this particular instance, nobody is accusing Ramsey of doing anything unfair, out of line with market, anything nefarious like that.  He's being called out, quite loudly, for simply saying as a landlord you can adjust your rents to market rate and not be out of line with your Christian faith.  

It's an odd leap for me to see large swaths taking.  I don't think most of his detractors are worried about his faith and how it relates to his capital market philosophy, I think they are hostile to both.  It's making capitalism or market based pricing and business practices to be somehow evil.  That idea and effort, in and of itself I find to be evil.

 
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ekbeats said:
So how in the hell do we bring this country together?
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How about we all refuse to be entrenched, narrow minded partisan hacks and instead be more open minded, compassionate, and empathetic for a few weeks and see how that goes?

 
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