Succession on HBO (1 Viewer)

[Chaz McNulty]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

I do. Not because she loves Tom or anything but just because Tom was a way to stay tapped into the company.

I don't think this was even a consideration. Tom had pretty much shot her down when she was talking about rekindling the marriage. I think Greg could have been named the CEO and she still would have voted against Kendal or Roman. They spent 4 seasons showing Shiv's personality. How she treated her husband. How she always thought she was way smarter than everyone else. She even convinced herself that she would be the best one for the CEO position despite having zero corporate experience.

Shiv only agreed to back Kendal out of spite for Mattson. She allowed Mattson to use her as an insider spy, and then he was going to toss her away. She wanted to get back at him. But even revenge wasn't enough to allow her to have one of her brothers beat her.

All the characters were completely flawed, and the show did a good job of showing this.

 

[need2know]

Loved it. Amazing ending

 

[Ilov80s]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

I do. Not because she loves Tom or anything but just because Tom was a way to stay tapped into the company.

I don't think this was even a consideration. Tom had pretty much shot her down when she was talking about rekindling the marriage. I think Greg could have been named the CEO and she still would have voted against Kendal or Roman. They spent 4 seasons showing Shiv's personality. How she treated her husband. How she always thought she was way smarter than everyone else. She even convinced herself that she would be the best one for the CEO position despite having zero corporate experience.

Shiv only agreed to back Kendal out of spite for Mattson. She allowed Mattson to use her as an insider spy, and then he was going to toss her away. She wanted to get back at him. But even revenge wasn't enough to allow her to have one of her brothers beat her.

All the characters were completely flawed, and the show did a good job of showing this.

Sure Tom shot her down now. It will not be so easy to shoot her down when their child is born. She is carrying the ultimate trump card.

 

[dickey moe]

The Succession theme song/Lebron tweet was maybe the best thing the Ringer has done

Someone must've sampled the theme in a rap tune by now.

 

[Bozeman Bruiser]

Man, listening to some of the music/score videos linked here has got me feeling all sentimental. That led to watching some of the recommended/related videos.

Succession but it's a Romantic Comedy (TRAILER) | Tom and Greg

Music:1. Street Hassle - Lou Reedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ShtsBxyl842. Cape Cod Kwassa Kwassa - Vampire Weekendhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbEWIi...

www.youtube.com

I have a feeling I will be doing a rewatch sooner than later.

 

[Biff84]

I take Shiv’s decision as purely spite. If it’s not her, she was going to make sure it wasn’t either of them.

A good alternative ending would have been the kids finally working well together only to have one of the votes they assumed would be with them voting against them. Maybe the uncle saying that he saw their father’s evil in each of them and he didn’t want to see them keep power.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

There's plenty of non-clowns in the show. Most of the Board of Directors of Waystar were competent and successful businessmen (Frank, Karl, etc.). Geri was a fine counsellor. Lawrence, Sandy and Stewy were all about making the best business decisions. The PR team worked it.

Even Tom (and Gregg) while conniving and perhaps dim witted, at least knew how to play the game.

 

[Schmeabs]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

There's plenty of non-clowns in the show. Most of the Board of Directors of Waystar were competent and successful businessmen (Frank, Karl, etc.). Geri was a fine counsellor. Lawrence, Sandy and Stewy were all about making the best business decisions. The PR team worked it.

Even Tom (and Gregg) while conniving and perhaps dim witted, at least knew how to play the game.

Who is Gregg? Do you mean Greg?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

There's plenty of non-clowns in the show. Most of the Board of Directors of Waystar were competent and successful businessmen (Frank, Karl, etc.). Geri was a fine counsellor. Lawrence, Sandy and Stewy were all about making the best business decisions. The PR team worked it.

Even Tom (and Gregg) while conniving and perhaps dim witted, at least knew how to play the game.

Who is Gregg? Do you mean Greg?

You're really confused by an extra "g"?

 

[JohnnyU]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

Ok, they are all bad people.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

There's plenty of non-clowns in the show. Most of the Board of Directors of Waystar were competent and successful businessmen (Frank, Karl, etc.). Geri was a fine counsellor. Lawrence, Sandy and Stewy were all about making the best business decisions. The PR team worked it.

Even Tom (and Gregg) while conniving and perhaps dim witted, at least knew how to play the game.

I've got a lingering conviction that if you were a boar on the floor snorting for sausages to keep your job, you can't be a serious person. I believe that eliminates Tom, Greg and Karl from consideration.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

FYI, I know everyone is in love with the Wambsgans/triple play theory, but on Slate's sports podcast "Hang Up and Listen", Stefan Fatsis, after a brief biography of Bill Wambsganss, mentions that he emailed Frank Rich, Succession's executive producer, and Rich pretty definitively shot the whole thing down:

• The character names were all decided at the beginning of the show, before anyone had any idea of how it would end
• Armstrong and the other creative minds are all British, and don't follow baseball at all
• The name Wambsgans came from a friend of one of the writers

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Something else that occurred to me: On the one hand, we aren't supposed to relate at all to these ultrarich, spoiled incompetents. On the other, I think we all can relate to the idea that, in the presence of our family members, we revert back to our childhood roles. That was constantly happening to the siblings, often at the most inopportune times. And ultimately, it was what prevented them from ever being able to maintain a united front

 

[shuke]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

 

[Moonlight]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

 

[Ghost Rider]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

In fairness, Logan wasn't a clown. Neither is Mattson. Those guys might not be "good people," but they can get things done. Unlike the kids.

There's plenty of non-clowns in the show. Most of the Board of Directors of Waystar were competent and successful businessmen (Frank, Karl, etc.). Geri was a fine counsellor. Lawrence, Sandy and Stewy were all about making the best business decisions. The PR team worked it.

Even Tom (and Gregg) while conniving and perhaps dim witted, at least knew how to play the game.

I've got a lingering conviction that if you were a boar on the floor snorting for sausages to keep your job, you can't be a serious person. I believe that eliminates Tom, Greg and Karl from consideration.

The real problem was that they all gave half-hearted oinks, not the full-hearted ones Logan wanted.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

Yeah, Mattson and Logan are cut from the same cloth, and I imagine they both knew that. I'm sure Moonlight is talking about Tom, but that raises an interesting point in its own right. In a show called "Succession" where everybody is focused on who gets to be "it," it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

Edit: I get why we view it that way of course. Tom is a main character, and Mattson is a side character, so we tend to see Tom's outcome as more significant than Mattson's. But I absolutely love the fact that in a show that was obviously inspired by Shakespeare, they bring in a Fortinbras-like character to swoop in at the end and declare victory just as the main characters all lie on the stage defeated.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

Yeah, Mattson and Logan are cut from the same cloth, and I imagine they both knew that. I'm sure Moonlight is talking about Tom, but that raises an interesting point in its own right. In a show called "Succession" where everybody is focused on who gets to be "it," it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

Edit: I get why we view it that way of course. Tom is a main character, and Mattson is a side character, so we tend to see Tom's outcome as more significant than Mattson's. But I absolutely love the fact that in a show that was obviously inspired by Shakespeare, they bring in a Fortinbras-like character to swoop in at the end and declare victory just as the main characters all lie on the stage defeated.

I was sure right up until the end that Mattson was playing Tom and Shiv and would never actually hire either. But there was a bit of foreshadowing in a prior episode when Tom and Greg fired a huge group of employees over Zoom and then bragged about their skill in firing people to Mattson. At the lunch meeting, Mattson said something to Tom about having to cut deep when he takes over. One real world interpretation is that Tom and Greg will be the post-acquisition hatchet men and will then be pushed aside for an actual business executive to take over and run the company from there.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

Yeah, Mattson and Logan are cut from the same cloth, and I imagine they both knew that. I'm sure Moonlight is talking about Tom, but that raises an interesting point in its own right. In a show called "Succession" where everybody is focused on who gets to be "it," it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

Edit: I get why we view it that way of course. Tom is a main character, and Mattson is a side character, so we tend to see Tom's outcome as more significant than Mattson's. But I absolutely love the fact that in a show that was obviously inspired by Shakespeare, they bring in a Fortinbras-like character to swoop in at the end and declare victory just as the main characters all lie on the stage defeated.

You're the second person I've heard in as many days make the Fortinbras comparison. The whole point of the ending of Hamlet -- which I definitely missed when I read it in high school -- is that the Danes are so consumed by infighting that they are incapable of uniting against the outside danger from Norway. Sounds like a pretty good description of what happened in Succession (except that Mattson was from Sweden)

 

[Dr. Octopus]

it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

The only reason it’s hard to call Mattison a winner is this was the expected result all along really. It was only Logan’s death that made it a competition. Mattson was supposed to buy Waystar and the only difference was he paid a little more and went through a challenge.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

Yeah, Mattson and Logan are cut from the same cloth, and I imagine they both knew that. I'm sure Moonlight is talking about Tom, but that raises an interesting point in its own right. In a show called "Succession" where everybody is focused on who gets to be "it," it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

Edit: I get why we view it that way of course. Tom is a main character, and Mattson is a side character, so we tend to see Tom's outcome as more significant than Mattson's. But I absolutely love the fact that in a show that was obviously inspired by Shakespeare, they bring in a Fortinbras-like character to swoop in at the end and declare victory just as the main characters all lie on the stage defeated.

You're the second person I've heard in as many days make the Fortinbras comparison. The whole point of the ending of Hamlet -- which I definitely missed when I read it in high school -- is that the Danes are so consumed by infighting that they are incapable of uniting against the outside danger from Norway. Sounds like a pretty good description of what happened in Succession (except that Mattson was from Sweden)

Season 1 we all thought it was King Lear but in the end it was more Hamlet.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Have been thinking about two particular scenes for the past few days that really triggered an emotional response from me.

1. The three of them in their mum's kitchen. It not only made me laugh, but just smile at them getting along.
2. The side-discussion during the board vote. Kendall absolutely losing it, Roman taking a cheap shot about Ken's kids and Ken grabbing Roman's face in anger. It was heartbreaking.

Just incredible writing/acting.

Read elsewhere. The ultimate twist and the key in succeeding Logan was to be nothing like Logan

Not so sure about that. The reason Logan decided to sell to Mattson was precisely because he reminded him of himself

Yeah, Mattson and Logan are cut from the same cloth, and I imagine they both knew that. I'm sure Moonlight is talking about Tom, but that raises an interesting point in its own right. In a show called "Succession" where everybody is focused on who gets to be "it," it's interesting that most of us see Tom as "the winner" when really we should probably be viewing Mattson that way instead.

Edit: I get why we view it that way of course. Tom is a main character, and Mattson is a side character, so we tend to see Tom's outcome as more significant than Mattson's. But I absolutely love the fact that in a show that was obviously inspired by Shakespeare, they bring in a Fortinbras-like character to swoop in at the end and declare victory just as the main characters all lie on the stage defeated.

You're the second person I've heard in as many days make the Fortinbras comparison. The whole point of the ending of Hamlet -- which I definitely missed when I read it in high school -- is that the Danes are so consumed by infighting that they are incapable of uniting against the outside danger from Norway. Sounds like a pretty good description of what happened in Succession (except that Mattson was from Sweden)

Season 1 we all thought it was King Lear but in the end it was more Hamlet.

Well, in both cases King L's son-in-law did end up on top.

In general, I sense the writers never wanted the comparisons to be too direct. The Roys were like the Murdochs, and also the Redstones, and also the Trumps. The story was a little bit Lear, a little bit Hamlet, and a little bit Richard III. Mattson was Elon Musk and maybe also Daniel Ek

 

[Desert_Power]

Hadn't realized that Jesse Armstrong was the writer for one of the best Black Mirror episodes (Entire History of You) and a co-creator of Peep Show. Pretty cool.

 

[hagmania]

I don’t know if this is the best show I’ve ever seen, but I do feel like this may be the best season of tv I’ve seen. Really great.

Season 1 of Westworld is hard to beat imo, but Season 4 of Succession makes a pretty good case.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I am doing my first watch of this show. I am early into season 2.

I am enjoying it for the most part but I have no idea who I am suppose to root for in this show. Almost every single character is deplorable and unlikeable outside of Greg and so far he is too minor a character to have an effect.

I am very versed in watching shows that have characters who act horribly but through the writing I found a way to root for Walter White, or Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey or Ruth Langmore etc. I don't see any character that is going to have that effect on me in Succession.

The actor who plays Greg is so tall, it makes you realize how little Hollywood ever casts overly tall people that are not gimmick characters. James Cromwell is almost always the tallest actor in any room he is in and Greg towered over him in their scenes together in season 1.

 

[Desert_Power]

Prop Auction

 

[Desert_Power]

I am doing my first watch of this show. I am early into season 2.

I am enjoying it for the most part but I have no idea who I am suppose to root for in this show. Almost every single character is deplorable and unlikeable outside of Greg and so far he is too minor a character to have an effect.

I am very versed in watching shows that have characters who act horribly but through the writing I found a way to root for Walter White, or Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey or Ruth Langmore etc. I don't see any character that is going to have that effect on me in Succession.

The actor who plays Greg is so tall, it makes you realize how little Hollywood ever casts overly tall people that are not gimmick characters. James Cromwell is almost always the tallest actor in any room he is in and Greg towered over him in their scenes together in season 1.

Did you stay with it?

 

[NewlyRetired]

I am doing my first watch of this show. I am early into season 2.

I am enjoying it for the most part but I have no idea who I am suppose to root for in this show. Almost every single character is deplorable and unlikeable outside of Greg and so far he is too minor a character to have an effect.

I am very versed in watching shows that have characters who act horribly but through the writing I found a way to root for Walter White, or Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey or Ruth Langmore etc. I don't see any character that is going to have that effect on me in Succession.

The actor who plays Greg is so tall, it makes you realize how little Hollywood ever casts overly tall people that are not gimmick characters. James Cromwell is almost always the tallest actor in any room he is in and Greg towered over him in their scenes together in season 1.

Did you stay with it?

Yes I did. I completed the show. I enjoyed the over all story lines but I continued to struggle to identify or cheer for any character for the whole series.

 

[Eephus]

I continued to struggle to identify or cheer for any character for the whole series.

You passed the test and win a lifetime supply of Wonka bars.

 

[Desert_Power]

I continued to struggle to identify or cheer for any character for the whole series.

You passed the test and win a lifetime supply of Wonka bars.

What happened to the hat?

 

[TheAristocrat]

I watched and enjoyed the series as it came out but I think it might be time to binge watch it to see what I missed.

 

[dickey moe]

Tom is toast

LOL