Tarvaris Jackson vs. JaMarcus Russell (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

The next 5 years for FANTASY purposes... not which guy you'd rather have QB your favorite NFL team.

I'm in the minority, but I think Jackson is primed for big things in the future, especially with Berrian in town now.

Russell has all the measurables, of course, but we haven't seen enough of him to draw any conclusions either way.

Thoughts?

 

[Blackjacks]

I would go with Russell and it wouldn't even be close. Russell is physically everything you want in a qb. He has the ideal height, speed, size (maybe alittle too big but you want a big strong guy who can take hits) and a rocket for an arm. Some question his desire to win but that's not what I saw out of him in college. I saw a guy who gave it his all and wanted the ball in his hands at the end of the game. I might doubt his intellegence alittle but I'm just basing that on the way he comes off. Jay Cutler doesn't come off to bright either but he does a good job on the field of football stuff. Russell will be a good to very good qb in 2-3 years and I think Jackson will be replaced in Minn. in the next 2.

 

[TheHosers]

The problem with Jackson is that Min is going to be a run first, defensive minded team for the next few years. With Taylor&ADP at RB and the dominant DL, they're not going to take a lot of chances airing the ball out and they should not be involved in many blowout losses where they have to pass-pass-pass to come back. I think they overpayed for Berrian as well. I like Rice a lot better than him as he already has the connection with Jackson from last year.

Russell, on the other hand, will have the reins taken off of him by next year and will be airing the ball out. They're building that Off to be an exciting big play threat. The short term challenges are that RunDMC, as well as the Oak Staff, will probably need a year to get acclimated on how best to utilize his skill set. And Oak has no WR's that are going to scare too many defenses. The Walker signing is looking more and more like a huge bust and they only have Carter & Curry to throw to now but I think they will be able to address that sooner rather than later. I also think Zach Miller is going to end up being a big time playmaker from the TE position.

Since your poll asks who for the next 5 years, I'd rather have Oak/Russell's potential than Min/Jackson's "play it safe and keep games close" mindset.

 

[mlball77]

I like Russell, and I'm assuming we're talking about FF here.

Russell has a higher ceiling, in my view, and does not play for a team that is built to be a very run heavy team like Jackson does. I guess what I'm saying is that Russell should have much more of an opportunity to compile stats than will Jackson.

 

[Raider Nation]

I would go with Russell and it wouldn't even be close. Russell is physically everything you want in a qb. He has the ideal height, speed, size (maybe alittle too big but you want a big strong guy who can take hits) and a rocket for an arm.

During the Warren Sapp interview on Sirius on Monday, after he was done criticizing the way things are done in Raider Land, he was asked about Russell. He paused for about five seconds, then gave his best Joey Lawrence "WHOA!". Said he's excited to see the things the kid is going to do in the league, and that he's never seen an arm like Russell's. "When he throws the ball, you can hear it."That, and Al Davis comparing Russell's skill set to John Elway is nice. But lots of guys (Ryan Leaf, for one) could throw the ball.

 

[Raider Nation]

I like Russell, and I'm assuming we're talking about FF here.

Yes, I'll edit my original post to make that clear.

 

[5Rings]

I would go with Russell and it wouldn't even be close. Russell is physically everything you want in a qb. He has the ideal height, speed, size (maybe alittle too big but you want a big strong guy who can take hits) and a rocket for an arm. Some question his desire to win but that's not what I saw out of him in college. I saw a guy who gave it his all and wanted the ball in his hands at the end of the game. I might doubt his intellegence alittle but I'm just basing that on the way he comes off. Jay Cutler doesn't come off to bright either but he does a good job on the field of football stuff. Russell will be a good to very good qb in 2-3 years and I think Jackson will be replaced in Minn. in the next 2.

 

[Raider Nation]

The problem with Jackson is that Min is going to be a run first, defensive minded team for the next few years.

Yes, Russell figures to throw the ball more times than Jackson.But because Minnesota is a run-first team, Jackson will have more opportunities for quality completions to Berrian and Rice for long touchdowns. He'll have plenty of chances to do so, and when he proves he can beat it routinely Peterson will become even more of a beast.

 

[Phlash]

Russell for sure. I was huge on Tarvaris Jackson coming out of college until I saw how he played against NFL defenses. He just seems lost at times. Russell on the other hand, proved solid in limited time - his first game starting was unsurprisingly poor, but in his second game he posted 23 completions on 31 attempts for 224 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, and a 90.2 quarterback rating, completing 74.2% of his passes. That's a pretty solid bounce back effort. His WRs are a joke this year but Berrian's are not much better. I'd expect Jamarcus to put up somewhere around an 80 quarterback rating this season, maybe 20 TDs, 15 INTs, 3200 yards, 62% completion. It would be a great second year and I can see it happening based on his raw skills.

 

[mlball77]

The problem with Jackson is that Min is going to be a run first, defensive minded team for the next few years.

Yes, Russell figures to throw the ball more times than Jackson.But because Minnesota is a run-first team, Jackson will have more opportunities for quality completions to Berrian and Rice for long touchdowns. He'll have plenty of chances to do so, and when he proves he can beat it routinely Peterson will become even more of a beast.

Fair point. Defenses focusing on Peterson should greatly help Jackson. I still just think he (Jackson) won't be called on to do enough to make his value greater than Russell's. I'd have to study the numbers more closely, but I think Jackson's yards per pass attempt would have to be far superior to Russell's to close the gap generated by attempts. Plus, and this is completely a guess, I think Russell/Oak may pass more in the redzone than will Jackson/Min... Since Min has such a great ground attack.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm actually shocked that as I type this 13 of 36 people voted for Jackson.

That's a pretty compelling argument for dynasty owners to be targeting Russell right now because he's grossly underrated if our poll is indicative of the wider fantasy community. Wow.

 

[Zoomanji]

I know they are both run-first teams. Neither have much at WR but Oak has a worse D

I don't think the run 1st argument applies and if you want to get down to it, Childress comes from Reid and that is a pass first offense.

Regardless, I think Russell has the better physical skills but Jackson has the better coaching and surrounding talent (if not now than sooner). I could see a slight edge either way. Personally if my fantasy is counting on either of these guys, I'm rebuilding or looking for a QB.

 

[cstu]

I'm actually shocked that as I type this 13 of 36 people voted for Jackson. That's a pretty compelling argument for dynasty owners to be targeting Russell right now because he's grossly underrated if our poll is indicative of the wider fantasy community. Wow.

 

[JayJay328]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.

That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

 

[mlball77]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

Very interesting stats with the passing attempts etc. It really helps to see the numbers laid out like that. I already knew Oak ran a good amount last year, as I saw them play several times. However, I did NOT at all realize the extent to which they ran the ball.I don’t know if Oak’s coaches will open up the air attack a bit more now with Russell starting at QB this year or not, but I’m inclined to think so, at least a little. Last year their QB situation was a bit of a mess, with McCown etc., so I think that may be a small part of the reason that they ran a lot. With Russell getting a camp under his belt and the addition of Javon Walker, I could see them passing a bit more… but the same argument can be made for Minnesota as well (Jackson developing further and the addition of Berrian).

 

[sholditch]

After watching the second Bears/Vikings game from last year, I am 100% sure that TJax will not be starting in 09. His fundamentals are so wonky and off that there is no way you could begin trying to fix them. It's either roll with a QB who plays like he's in 1-AA college, or find someone else. There's no fixing someone who is as wrong as he is in so many ways. I have my doubts about Russell as a QB, but no doubts about TJax: not an NFL QB.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm actually shocked that as I type this 13 of 36 people voted for Jackson. That's a pretty compelling argument for dynasty owners to be targeting Russell right now because he's grossly underrated if our poll is indicative of the wider fantasy community. Wow.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If Russell played anywhere but Oakland (or maybe KC), I'd say Russell in a rout.

As it is, I think the chances of FFB success are about even. Jackson doesn't have Russell's athletic upside and Russell seems like he's in a system that has no chance of developing him to his potential.

 

[gianmarco]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

I will also add that I think TJax is being underrated as well. I truly think both of these guys have potential to be top-notch fantasy producers. TJax is being written off WAY too early, IMO.

 

[sholditch]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

I will also add that I think TJax is being underrated as well. I truly think both of these guys have potential to be top-notch fantasy producers. TJax is being written off WAY too early, IMO.

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

 

[JayJay328]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.

That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

Very interesting stats with the passing attempts etc. It really helps to see the numbers laid out like that. I already knew Oak ran a good amount last year, as I saw them play several times. However, I did NOT at all realize the extent to which they ran the ball.I don’t know if Oak’s coaches will open up the air attack a bit more now with Russell starting at QB this year or not, but I’m inclined to think so, at least a little. Last year their QB situation was a bit of a mess, with McCown etc., so I think that may be a small part of the reason that they ran a lot. With Russell getting a camp under his belt and the addition of Javon Walker, I could see them passing a bit more… but the same argument can be made for Minnesota as well (Jackson developing further and the addition of Berrian).

I agree with what you have said but still think it comes down to coaching philosophy which in both cases is run first, pass second.

 

[gianmarco]

Oakland ran the ball 508 times last year while Minnesota ran it 494. Oak had 260 passing attempts with Minn. coming in at 249. Oak was 4-12 and Minn. finished 8-8. Until there is a coaching change there is no reason to expect major changes in either offensive philosophy. So please people stop with the Jamarcus will throw more B.S. because Minny is a run first team. Guess what? So is Oakland.That said, Jamarcus is my pick because he is the superior talent. At the end of the day I believe talent wins out.

I will also add that I think TJax is being underrated as well. I truly think both of these guys have potential to be top-notch fantasy producers. TJax is being written off WAY too early, IMO.

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wsouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

I have seen him play. And he's only been the starter for 1 year. Not everyone has a DA-like 1st year at QB. Let's not even talk about his WR options. We'll see what he does this year, I guess, then decide....

 

[SayWhat?]

I've been as big of a Tavaris hater as there is. That being said, he made noticable strides as last season progressed even though he was still prone to serious mistakes on weekly basis. He simply started to look more comfortable in the pocket and was making quicker decisions on a game-by-game basis as the year wore on. In leagues that emphasize rushing with 1pt/10yards or de-emphasize passing with less than 6pts per passing touchdown, Tavaris is a solid dynasty prospect and even a potentially solid QB2 this year in redrafts.

I'd still lean towards Russell in a dynasty due primarily because of his upside, but Jackson on a talented Vikings squad isn't far behind IMO.

 

[Polyethylene Bag]

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

Have you seen him play outside of Bears games? Vikings homer here that is expecting big things from Tarvaris this year. He's had some ugly games but seemed to be starting to put it together towards the end of last season.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

Have you seen him play outside of Bears games? Vikings homer here that is expecting big things from Tarvaris this year. He's had some ugly games but seemed to be starting to put it together towards the end of last season.

He had a 65% completion percentage over the last 7 games with 7 tds and 7 ints.

 

[massraider]

Just acquired them both in an auction, and paid about 3 times as much for JaMarcus ($56 versus $16). Now, Tarvaris entered the auction much later than JaMarcus, and auction numbers are different from league to league, but I like JaMarcus' talent a lot more. I think it is safe to say he has a stronger hold on the job than T. Jackson.

But Tarvaris has an up and coming team around him, and Russell is playing for Team Dysfunction. I could see someone preferring Tarvaris.

 

[sholditch]

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

Have you seen him play outside of Bears games? Vikings homer here that is expecting big things from Tarvaris this year. He's had some ugly games but seemed to be starting to put it together towards the end of last season.

Honestly no. I don't watch the Vikes and haven't watched any film, but the game I watched was in December, and he was just doing things that good QBs in the NFL don't do, like throwing across the field off his back foot while moving to his right, overthrowing guys, throwing straight into coverage. One of Vashers interceptions looked like a punt return. Maybe he was just having a really off day, but I stick by my statement that he won't be starting in 09. Honestly I would put him on a level with Alex Smith and Rex Grossman as far as overall talent and prospects for success. Smith is the only one out of that group I think has a chance of being a starter for much longer.

 

[49erBamBam52]

Where is the "Chris Weinke" voting button...

i take niether of them...

can i start a kicker in their place???

BAM

 

[gianmarco]

Have you seen him play? His release? Footwork? And this is after two years in the NFL. I can say this honestly as a Bears fan: I wouldn't trade Grossman for him. There, that's absolutely the most damning thing I can say.

Have you seen him play outside of Bears games? Vikings homer here that is expecting big things from Tarvaris this year. He's had some ugly games but seemed to be starting to put it together towards the end of last season.

Honestly no. I don't watch the Vikes and haven't watched any film, but the game I watched was in December, and he was just doing things that good QBs in the NFL don't do, like throwing across the field off his back foot while moving to his right, overthrowing guys, throwing straight into coverage. One of Vashers interceptions looked like a punt return. Maybe he was just having a really off day, but I stick by my statement that he won't be starting in 09. Honestly I would put him on a level with Alex Smith and Rex Grossman as far as overall talent and prospects for success. Smith is the only one out of that group I think has a chance of being a starter for much longer.

Sholditch, I usually like the things you post and you have great reasons for your thinking and valuable opinions, but I don't get this one at all. I can understand being turned off from the game you saw and downgrading TJax because of it, but surely you aren't so closed to his prospects because of only ONE game? While it's not as if he was turning heads, using one game to judge a player's talents without watching him more than that is a bit short-sighted, IMO. As an example, albeit exaggerated, what if the only game you saw of Adrian Peterson was his game vs. SF where he had a total of 3 yds on 14 carries? Would it be fair to judge his talent and ability based on that one game? I'm not saying you have to be a fan and I'm not saying you should be encouraged to try and own him because of what people are posting here, but at the same time I think you should realize that there may be more to him than what you saw in only one game of action. Just my $.02