Thailand cave rescue (1 Viewer)

[Doug B]

In all seriousness it looks like they need to do whatever they can to make the cave as habitable as possible for a possible 4 month duration with the hope of getting them out sooner.

Four months worth of food was brought to the team on Tuesday. Their pantry is stocked at the least. 

 

[ragincajun]

That’s great.  Have you seen anything as far as sanitation needs yet?  I would think besides food / water that would be the next need?

 

[Doug B]

That’s great.  Have you seen anything as far as sanitation needs yet?  I would think besides food / water that would be the next need?

Nope. But people can be mighty resourceful if they have to be.

 

[Doug B]

There was discussion upthread about the number of divers on the scene. Here are some numbers:

An additional 30 SEALs arrived on site Thursday to reinforce rescue operations, according to Captain Supachai Thanasarnsakorn, deputy chief of the Thai Navy SEALs. They join the 80 already involved in the rescue operation comprising active, reserve and former SEALs.

That's 110 current or former Thai SEALs, not counting various volunteer divers from other countries (I've seen references to British, Australian, and an expat Belgian diver).

 

[Doug B]

From the link in my previous post -- boring into the rock HAD already actually begun, but:

[Chiang Rai governor Narongsak] Osottanakorn said that teams on the surface were no longer drilling into the rock to create new shafts, but are focusing efforts on finding existing chimneys.

"We are no longer digging -- we will find a way that can give us access (without digging) direct to the area where the boys are," he said.

 

[Doug B]

Even more from that same link, for those who were wondering about international coordination and the U.S.'s role:

International rescue effort

Thailand may be leading the search to free 12 boys and their coach from a cave in the country's north, but many other countries are contributing assistance.

Australia -- Australian police divers are taking part in rescue efforts and helping with planning.

China -- Six rescue specialists from NGO Beijing Peaceland Foundation are assisting Thai divers.

Israel -- Israel's Maxtech Networks is providing radio and communication equipment.

Laos and Myanmar -- Thailand's neighboring countries each sent rescue workers and divers.

UK -- Two UK divers were first to discover the boys, earning one a commendation from the British Cave Rescue Council.

US -- US Indo-Pacific Command (PACOM) sent 30 military personnel, including divers.

 

[Scoresman]

What do you do to occupy your time as a kid in a pitch black environment for this long a period of time.  Thinking about that raises my own anxiety.  

 

[El Floppo]

These two links are also good for getting the lay of the land. El Floppo's is especially good because it shows an overhead layout and can be cross-referenced with the horizontal maps shown at the other links.

Thanks Db... The thing that caught my eye were the scale diagram sections cut through parts of the cave... That one with the two tiny circle looks particularly horrific. I also wasn't clear on that they meant by "ledge" where the kids are hiding out. It really appears to be a ledge and not just higher ground up the cave. Terrifying to think if more water comes in there.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I almost get a panic attack just reading and looking at those charts.

Much more than almost for me.  I can't look at it without squirming.

 

[Short Corner]

What do you do to occupy your time as a kid in a pitch black environment for this long a period of time.  Thinking about that raises my own anxiety.  

 

[grateful zed]

They could be stuck there for FOUR months?!?

playboys and beer.

 

[dgreen]

What do you do to occupy your time as a kid in a pitch black environment for this long a period of time.  Thinking about that raises my own anxiety.  

I've been wondering if they ever reached the point of accepting their death prior to the first diver showing up. Then they must have been so excited to be rescued. Then they learn that they may have to live there for four months. Quite a swing of emotions.

 

[ragincajun]

Nope. But people can be mighty resourceful if they have to be.

Agreed however I can see the environment deteriorating quickly to becoming very hazardous from a disease / waste standpoint.

 

[Doug B]

Thanks Db... The thing that caught my eye were the scale diagram sections cut through parts of the cave... That one with the two tiny circle looks particularly horrific. I also wasn't clear on that they meant by "ledge" where the kids are hiding out. It really appears to be a ledge and not just higher ground up the cave. Terrifying to think if more water comes in there.

Yep, those cross-section images were pretty harrowing. The two tiny circles were presumably the areas that the kids had crawled through when the cave was drier.

Regarding that ledge and water rising: while I can't find a cite, I would bet that flotation devices have been brought to team.

One thing I didn't learn until today is that some of the Thai SEALs have been staying in the cave around the clock to keep the boys company, aside from the scuba lessons and all that. Hats off to those guys.

 

[Mario Kart]

Wonder if it would be in any way possible to seal the cave entrance up while running an air supply through the seal and then pumping all of the water out.

I haven't seen a photo/video of the entrance or anything like that... but what about constructing a dry dock, of sorts, similar to what you mentioned?

 

[Doug B]

I haven't seen a photo/video of the entrance or anything like that... but what about constructing a dry dock, of sorts, similar to what you mentioned?

If I'm following you right:

The cave is not a closed system -- they pump water out, water keeps coming in. Several sources of the incoming water have been identified, and some -- but not all --  of them have been blocked. Theoretically, if every crevice and wormhole could be plugged, something like a dry dock could perhaps be executed.

Right now, the hope is to get enough water out so that the need to dive is minimized or maybe even eliminated. I haven't seen where anyone has treated complete drainage as a realistic possibility. 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Right now, the hope is to get enough water out so that the need to dive is minimized or maybe even eliminated. I haven't seen where anyone has treated complete drainage as a realistic possibility. 

You wouldn't want to do that anyway, unless you wanted to risk collapsing part of the mountain.

I drill holes in the ground for a living, through many different types of soils & rock. I don't know the geotechnical conditions of this particular site, but there are transition zones between soils classifications. Those transition zones are the areas where natural groundwater passes through. You pump those dry, and the shelves fall into (and sometimes through) one another creating sink holes and other nasty effects.

And given that these folks are half a mile below the vertical surface, there are probably a million entrances for stormwater to enter. You can maybe pump that down some, but you have to be careful how fast you do it.

Terrain also comes into play. Trying to get equipment into a spot to drill new shafts isn't the easiest on a mountain.

 

[Doug B]

Slight setback, but some positive news, too:

Operation commander Narongsak Osatanakorn said overzealous volunteers working on their own arrived on site and began pumping water into the ground, forcing it back into the partially flooded Tham Luang Nang Non cave in northern Thailand. 

"They may have some belief that their techniques are effective for groundwater drainage, but anything that is not in the plan must be discussed with us first," Narongsak told Thai media. "We are racing against water (that is) flowing into the cave although we have plugged its channels."

The volunteers were corrected, and Poonsak Woongsatngiem, an official from Thailand’s interior ministry, told the Guardian that the water had been reduced by 40 percent in the past few days, clearing a 1-mile stretch of cave the boys would need to cross. The boys are about 2.5 miles from the cave entrance.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

This is just a crazy situation. Really pulling for these kids and all of the responders. Come on Mother Nature. Easy on the rain. 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

 

awful situation, but hoping for the best

 

[grateful zed]

is there a live feed?

where is geraldo?

 

[timschochet]

This story horrified me and fascinates me at the same time.  

 

[stbugs]

Because he was the adult in charge who led a group of 12 year old kids into an inescapable cave of death?  Maybe I'm being extreme?  

Based on that cave layout, I have no clue WTF they are doing in there. The small passageways seem to remind you of those crazy cave movies where people squeeze through and this was a soccer team and coach? Makes no sense to me. 

 

[Henry Ford]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

 

[El Floppo]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

Well #### :(

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

How are these kids supposed to survive this???

 

[SwampDawg]

Based on that cave layout, I have no clue WTF they are doing in there. The small passageways seem to remind you of those crazy cave movies where people squeeze through and this was a soccer team and coach? Makes no sense to me. 

I was having the same thought.

 

[El Floppo]

I was having the same thought.

My guess is that the narrow part is less daunting in normal conditions- squeeze through a little bit and get into tall caves again. If it was a known thing, I could see trying it. Maybe they got caught past that point when the flooding happened, pushing them farther back

 

[Da Guru]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

Bless that man.  That had to be an agonizing death. A trained SEAL knowing he is out of air..probably lasted at least a minute or two knowing his fate.

 

[ex-ghost]

My guess is that the narrow part is less daunting in normal conditions- squeeze through a little bit and get into tall caves again. If it was a known thing, I could see trying it. Maybe they got caught past that point when the flooding happened, pushing them farther back

Fat Man's Squeeze

 

[Nick Vermeil]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

Damn. 

 

[Henry Ford]

How are these kids supposed to survive this???

That’s why they’re talking about leaving them there for months. 

 

[ragincajun]

If anyone has been to Ruby falls in Chattanooga there is a section of cave where the guy that found the falls crawled through.  It was around 18” tall.  You walk along side the section and you are just amazed at how he could have done that for a few hundred feet.  Now miles holy crap.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Based on that cave layout, I have no clue WTF they are doing in there. The small passageways seem to remind you of those crazy cave movies where people squeeze through and this was a soccer team and coach? Makes no sense to me. 

I don't know for sure the logistics of how it all went down, but they retreated some distance once the cave started flooding to get to higher ground.  I'm not sure if they squeezed through the small sections before or after they started running from the water.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

That’s why they’re talking about leaving them there for months. 

This is so crazy. I haven’t followed closely so I am wondering how the hell they even got there. 

What are they going to do; somehow swim months of supplies to them and hope for the best?

 

[Fat Nick]

...Seriously.  I know others have posted it, but this is my absolute worst nightmare.  Confined space deep underground and water.  I used to have dreams about falling into a drain pipe where the pipe gets narrower and narrower and the water fills it in.  

I can't even imagine what it's got to be like for those kids, and those rescue divers are a special breed.  I have no idea how somebody could do that kind of work voluntarily.  

I'm 1/2 Thai, and I was talking with some of my cousins on FB.  They're very worried in the local news (as they are here) about the rain.  I'm not sure if anybody has seen Thai monsoons.  My Dad calls it "Elephant Chasing Rain," because the drops are huge.  It's the heaviest rain I've ever seen.  I imagine just the groundwater runoff into the smallest crack turns into a stream at those depths.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I found this video that illustrates some of the kinds of diving that are involved in this sort of thing.  It's not this specific cave, but it gives you a good idea of why it's so treacherous:

Link

Here's another.  The real fun starts around 5:30 or so.

 

[ChiefD]

I found this video that illustrates some of the kinds of diving that are involved in this sort of thing.  It's not this specific cave, but it gives you a good idea of why it's so treacherous:

Link

Here's another.  The real fun starts around 5:30 or so.

Good Lord.

 

[rockaction]

I don't even want to click the diving links. I'd be scared just watching them. 

Man, this whole thing stinks.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

I found this video that illustrates some of the kinds of diving that are involved in this sort of thing.  It's not this specific cave, but it gives you a good idea of why it's so treacherous:

Link

Here's another.  The real fun starts around 5:30 or so.

Yeah, not for me.

I can't even fathom what the first person to head through such a small opening is thinking - "Yeah, I'll just follow this narrow passage, and hope I don't get stuck..."

I wouldn't do it, even if it was dry.  

 

[El Floppo]

That’s why they’re talking about leaving them there for months. 

they've been saying this, and I've kind of shrugged it off assuming they'd be able to get the kids out regardless.

having a world-class seal trained in this kind of stuff die puts it in much clearer perspective. hoping they don't tell those kids this bit of news.

 

[Da Guru]

I found this video that illustrates some of the kinds of diving that are involved in this sort of thing.  It's not this specific cave, but it gives you a good idea of why it's so treacherous:

Link

Here's another.  The real fun starts around 5:30 or so.

OMG..I can`t even watch that. I would freak out. Just not get why anyone would do a dive like that.

 

[Pipes]

...Seriously.  I know others have posted it, but this is my absolute worst nightmare.  Confined space deep underground and water.  I used to have dreams about falling into a drain pipe where the pipe gets narrower and narrower and the water fills it in.  

I can't even imagine what it's got to be like for those kids, and those rescue divers are a special breed.  I have no idea how somebody could do that kind of work voluntarily.  

I'm 1/2 Thai, and I was talking with some of my cousins on FB.  They're very worried in the local news (as they are here) about the rain.  I'm not sure if anybody has seen Thai monsoons.  My Dad calls it "Elephant Chasing Rain," because the drops are huge.  It's the heaviest rain I've ever seen.  I imagine just the groundwater runoff into the smallest crack turns into a stream at those depths.  

Agreed.  I'd be begging for them to send down a loaded gun so I could eat a bullet.  Seriously I'd lose my damn mind. 

 

[rockaction]

Elon Musk to send engineers, per CNN

 

[Doug B]

This is so crazy. I haven’t followed closely so I am wondering how the hell they even got there. 

What are they going to do; somehow swim months of supplies to them and hope for the best?

Four months worth of food were swum in within 18 hours of finding the team. Getting supplies in takes nerve and determination, but has not proven to be nearly the biggest problem.

 

[Da Guru]

...Seriously.  I know others have posted it, but this is my absolute worst nightmare.  Confined space deep underground and water.  I used to have dreams about falling into a drain pipe where the pipe gets narrower and narrower and the water fills it in.  

I can't even imagine what it's got to be like for those kids, and those rescue divers are a special breed.  I have no idea how somebody could do that kind of work voluntarily.  

I'm 1/2 Thai, and I was talking with some of my cousins on FB.  They're very worried in the local news (as they are here) about the rain.  I'm not sure if anybody has seen Thai monsoons.  My Dad calls it "Elephant Chasing Rain," because the drops are huge.  It's the heaviest rain I've ever seen.  I imagine just the groundwater runoff into the smallest crack turns into a stream at those depths.  

You will like this video.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIoXN-7FjM

 

[Doug B]

For anyone catching up on this event, here is a good Vox article that sums up everything up until about 16 hours ago (before the Thai diver perished). Lays out the methods of rescue really well.

Meanwhile, CNN posted this almost two hours ago:

Chiang Rai, Thailand (CNN) - Pressure is mounting on Thai authorities to bring forward a rescue plan for 12 boys and their coach trapped deep inside a flooded cave in northern Thailand, after the death of a former navy diver and a drop in oxygen levels underground.

Officials initially thought they could keep the boys and their coach in the cave where they are trapped for up to four months, until waters dropped sufficiently for them to be able to walk out.

But the death of a rescue team member, and the realization that oxygen levels have fallen to potentially dangerous levels, appears to have forced a reassessment of the situation.

Thai Navy SEAL chief Rear Adm. Aphakorn Yoo-kongkaew said oxygen levels in the cave had dropped to 15%, a level that one Thai medic said posed a serious risk of hypoxia, the same condition that causes altitude sickness. It was too dangerous to leave the boys much longer, Yoo-kongkaew said, despite the risks involved in attempting to bring them out.

"We can no longer wait for all conditions (to be ready) because of the oppressive situation," he told journalists Friday.

 

[Doug B]

Oxygen levels in the cave had fallen nearly 30 percent, as mentioned upthread.

 

[Doug B]

A Thai Navy SEAL has died during the efforts.  Ran out of oxygen while placing tanks along the path. 

Bless that man.  That had to be an agonizing death. A trained SEAL knowing he is out of air..probably lasted at least a minute or two knowing his fate.

RIP to Suman Kunan. He possessed courage few will ever summon. And to his last breath, he fulfilled his mission -- he had completed laying out the tanks and was on his return leg.

 

[Fat Nick]

You will like this video.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIoXN-7FjM

Dude.  F that.  WHY would you ever crawl into that?  I'd never crawl into a space where I couldn't turn myself 180 degrees around.  Nope.  No way.  I got anxious just looking at the picture near the end of how he got stuck.