Jayrok
Footballguy
Sort of sums up the last couple of seasons. Wish they had kept Butker and let Gano and his salary walk back in August. Butker is money in Kansas City.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
JFS171
Footballguy
I have a feeling that's exactly what would have happened had the GM that drafted Butker not been fired. Then village idiot Marty Hurney actually thought someone was going to trade for Gano and his exorbitant salary. Come on ... so of course Butker ends up elsewhere.
The Bengals did the same thing with Jake Elliott, only he was a 5th rounder. Still, he's killing it in Philly while Cinci still has perennial meh kicker Randy Bullock.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Different defense when Luke is on the field. If we could just find a presence like that on the offensive side.
Faced the worst (statistically) pass defense in the NFL. Funchess just can't get open. Course there isn't much time for Cam to wait since he's got no protection.
Peppers #4 on the all time sack list. Awesome for him #HOF
Good win within the division.
Faced the worst (statistically) pass defense in the NFL. Funchess just can't get open. Course there isn't much time for Cam to wait since he's got no protection.
Peppers #4 on the all time sack list. Awesome for him #HOF
Good win within the division.
Cost $8.5mm for next year, so I guess this is a cap savvy move if they don't really want him around. Offense takes a big hit this year though
NCCommish
Footballguy
According to the official line this will allow them to get.more speed on the field. More chances for other receivers. They essentially said Kelvin was one dimensional and not fast enough. Funchess can play all the receiver positions and they can get more opportunities for CMC, Samuels and even Byrd when he comes back.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
if they said this, it means the front office is terrible. A big reliable receiver like Benjamin that can go deep and take coverage in the middle of the field opens up routes for everyone else. There is no way this offense in improved without him
Jayrok
Footballguy
Not sure how I feel about this one. A late third rounder and a (most likely insignificant) late 7th round pick for a guy who wins a lot of 50/50 balls.
Samuel is quick but he's no Ginn on the deep route. Funchess can't separate and often disappears in games. And he's going to be the #1 target drawing the #1 coverage? Good luck.
I guess what makes the most sense is they don't want to pay him what he'll ask for in 2019. Wish it were a second rounder, though.
Samuel is quick but he's no Ginn on the deep route. Funchess can't separate and often disappears in games. And he's going to be the #1 target drawing the #1 coverage? Good luck.
I guess what makes the most sense is they don't want to pay him what he'll ask for in 2019. Wish it were a second rounder, though.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I heard/read a lot of this last night from Charlotte beat writers, but the lack of Benjamin on the field wasn't the reason they were so efficient in 2015. I mean, Benjamin isn't some anchor that is preventing them from being in 2015 offensive form.
The line was better (and healthy) that year. Cam played with swag and confidence, and led that team. Stewart had a healthy productive season. Tolbert. Olsen was healthy. Ginn was catching deep balls, which opened up the whole field for Cam. I think a healthy Benjamin in 2015 would have only made the offense better. The offense hasn't been the same since the Denver game in early 2016 season when Cam got pummeled again.
Risky move, imo, trading away a big part of the offense when you are in good shape to win the division and go to the playoffs. We'll see how they respond.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Risky is an understatement. It makes no sense at all and disrupts the team especially with a crucial upcoming game. Plus it tells me that Hurney is settling in for the long haul. I mean did he even consult Riveria or Shula? Screw a third and saving 8million, we are fighting for the division. Its like Hurney did a complete 180 from his last stint. Instead of giving out long lucrative contracts he is shipping players out when they are productive.......midseason.
I know Jerry has done some great things in the community but man its time for him to sell the team
Last edited by a moderator:
JFS171
Footballguy
This definitely seems to be the party line, and it's an incredibly stupid one. "Oh Cam had his best season without Benjamin, so we get rid of him and we'll fix Cam!" The logical leap there is just astounding, but that's Hurney for you.
Today he goes on WFNZ and is quoted as saying they want to "clear out the box" to "allow the run game to flourish." Ok - so many problems with this.
1) Benjamin is the only downfield threat consistently on the field. Maybe Samuel can be that eventually. Maybe Byrd can fill a Ginn role, but I'm sure we all saw Funchess trying to run deep on Sunday, and it was a joke.
2) Benjamin is a pretty solid run blocker if I'm remembering correctly
3) The return wasn't so overwhelming as to justify punting on him right now
4) Shula isn't calling downfield strikes anyway. This isn't how you open up the box
5) Per Rapoport, Hurney talked to ONE team about trading Benjamin. ONE. Amateur hour over at Mint and Morehead.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Panthers are saying that they got rid of Benjamin to help the run game by opening up the box.
My guess is that they believe that Funchess gives them the same skill set as Benjamin. I believe they just re-signed recently released Bills WR Clay who is more of a deep threat.
There IS some logic there.
My biggest concern with the trade as a Bills fan is that, from what little I've found, Benjamin's run blocking doesn't sound too impressive. If you aren't much of a downfield threat and you aren't a good run blocker, then it certainly does allow the defense to crowd the box a bit more.
Of course, that's also somewhat dependent on offensive playcalling too. If you have a big bodied receiver with a wide catch radius and you run lots of intermediate slants and crosses towards the middle of the field, that forces the LBers and safeties to continue to occupy that part of the field (not really helpful to the Bills since Tyrod is short and has trouble throwing over the middle).
My guess is that they believe that Funchess gives them the same skill set as Benjamin. I believe they just re-signed recently released Bills WR Clay who is more of a deep threat.
There IS some logic there.
My biggest concern with the trade as a Bills fan is that, from what little I've found, Benjamin's run blocking doesn't sound too impressive. If you aren't much of a downfield threat and you aren't a good run blocker, then it certainly does allow the defense to crowd the box a bit more.
Of course, that's also somewhat dependent on offensive playcalling too. If you have a big bodied receiver with a wide catch radius and you run lots of intermediate slants and crosses towards the middle of the field, that forces the LBers and safeties to continue to occupy that part of the field (not really helpful to the Bills since Tyrod is short and has trouble throwing over the middle).
Last edited by a moderator:
pantherclub
Footballguy
I dont think its possible to hate the man more than I do right now. I mean seriously wtf is Richardson thinking letting this moron run the team. remember this is the idiot that traded UP to select a FCS qb and hoped to making him a WR and pretty much everyone acknowledge he wouldnt have been drafted in any round.
JFS171
Footballguy
Don't believe the party line about Benjamin not being a downfield threat. He's one of their best downfield weapons. He is light years better than Funchess, who cannot separate.
Shula is incompetent. I actually expect Benjamin gives Tyrod a lot of what he lost when Watkins was traded.
Also Kaelin Clay was a Panther who was traded to Buffalo before final cuts and then claimed when Buffalo tried to pass him through waivers a few weeks later.
JFS171
Footballguy
This isn't the move an "interim" guy makes. This is the move a moron makes - especially not doing any due diligence around the league to see what others would offer. NE, WAS, CLE were all looking for passing game weapons. Do your job. Make the phone calls.
I'm legitimately done with this team until Hurney is gone.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Yes, the logical leap there is astounding and so ridiculous.
All good points. The return is actually what I'm upset about the most. And the fact that Hurney only was in talks with one team... and McDermott no less... is infuriating. A 7th rounder? hey, no problem, friend! Happy to help.
And Shula...
Wish they'd trade him for a 7th rounder. I love CMC, but it doesn't look like he will hold up as an every down RB. 3rd down back and slot receiver would be the best fit with him, imo. I wish they'd draft a solid RB to replace Stewart and use CMC as that possession WR who can also carry the ball. Stop all the gadget plays that Shula is trying to run. Jet sweeps do not work well in the NFL, nor do slow developing shuttle passes. Get a Saquon Barkley and use CMC the way he (1) will flourish the most and (2) won't get worn down by pummeling linebackers every play.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I didn't like the Samuel pick in the draft. His fumble against the Bears was huge. He's tried a couple of deep routes and was swallowed up by the two defenders running right with him as they jumped to make a play on the ball. I dunno, I thought he was overrated in college and so far he hasn't done anything to change that.
RE: Funchess and Benjamin... I still don't understand why Cam (Shula?) does not (or did not with Benjamin) take advantage of the out routes. 6-7 yards and out with those two big guys is nearly unstoppable. Yet the ball usually is hurled 20+ yards down the field as Cam is being hurried. We need a first down.. I'd take my chances with Benjamin and Funchess on the out route every time. Gets the ball out of Cam's hands quicker. Sometimes he throws a good slant, but a well placed ball on the out route with a big bodied WR just seems like money.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I think the concern you should have with Benjamin is his motivation. He's a beast when he wants to be, but also doesn't mind showing up for camp and having to lose a lot of weight. He's been good at getting back into shape for the regular season, but he'll only get older and will have to try harder. Game shape is one thing, but guys should be in good condition before camp starts.
Now he is playing in a city where it is cold from October/November through the playoffs. Cold in early spring. Will he want to put in the work? Good luck.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Great point. The one benefit the Bills have is that next year is only guaranteed for injury. This Bills organization has made it very clear that players either buy in or they're gone. Beane and McDermott apparently have reason to believe that he'll buy in and work hard. If he doesn't, they can always cut him with no financial damage. Only time will tell.
I agree a lot with the second part.
On the first, I just find it really hard to give a rookie too much blame for mistakes. Hunt fumbled on his first NFL carry. That pitch to Samuel was awful. Now, because they have both Samuel and CMC, Samuel has to develop much more as a receiver than he was probably expected to.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with you that it's hard to lay blame on a rookie. And I don't mean to do that. I hope I'm wrong, and as a fan, I hope he turns into the best WR on the team. I just didn't like the second round pick spent on him.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Lol, if you want to get the defenders off the line stop throwing it to McCaffery 20 times a game. He’s like the new Landry. Thankfully I sold Newton the only place I had him. They are completely clueless and their draft was awful.
3 better reasons
1. We'll have a higher draft pick in 2018
2. Winning is overrated
3. One less contract for hurney to screw up
stratocatter
Footballguy
This year has been out of whack from the start. When you decide to revamp your offense schematically and personnel wise at the same time your QB is on the sidelines almost until the games start, tough to expect much if you are the realistic type.
I'm not that upset about Benjamin. We weren't going to the Super Bowl this year with him. We can not go without him. And we got something for him. So... meh. Don't really care. Interested in seeing how it works without him.
What we need is for our QB to get with the program on finding what's open and taking what is there and lord knows what we do for run blocking. I see guys getting beat at the LOS consistently. That is not winning football. Fixing those things is bigger than making up a perceived loss in production due to losing a non dominant WR.
And we got more for Benjamin than we had to pay for Olsen, so that's sort of a win if you look at it it that way ha ha.
I'm not that upset about Benjamin. We weren't going to the Super Bowl this year with him. We can not go without him. And we got something for him. So... meh. Don't really care. Interested in seeing how it works without him.
What we need is for our QB to get with the program on finding what's open and taking what is there and lord knows what we do for run blocking. I see guys getting beat at the LOS consistently. That is not winning football. Fixing those things is bigger than making up a perceived loss in production due to losing a non dominant WR.
And we got more for Benjamin than we had to pay for Olsen, so that's sort of a win if you look at it it that way ha ha.
simey
Footballguy
Steve Smith gave his point of view on the trade.
"Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess are identical people, and so that means they can't move the ball down the field," Smith said. "When you talk about this team and what they did and how they did it, it's by moving the ball down the field. Chunk plays. With Ted Ginn Jr. gone, they don't have those chunk plays. When Greg Olsen gets hurt, they don't have that chunk play."
"When you look at it from a business standpoint, there are routes that those two guys can't run," Smith said of Funchess and Benjamin. "When you've got the same two guys doing the exact same thing, that means you have a limited offense. That means your route tree is limited. That means that you become predictable."
"So really, they decided to get rid of one. So, who do you pick? Do you get rid of the guy that's cheaper and has more upside? Or do you keep a guy who's going to cost $8.2 million, and I don't want to say he's hit the ceiling, but you know there's not much for room for him to based on his lack of fast-switch."
"Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess are identical people, and so that means they can't move the ball down the field," Smith said. "When you talk about this team and what they did and how they did it, it's by moving the ball down the field. Chunk plays. With Ted Ginn Jr. gone, they don't have those chunk plays. When Greg Olsen gets hurt, they don't have that chunk play."
"When you look at it from a business standpoint, there are routes that those two guys can't run," Smith said of Funchess and Benjamin. "When you've got the same two guys doing the exact same thing, that means you have a limited offense. That means your route tree is limited. That means that you become predictable."
"So really, they decided to get rid of one. So, who do you pick? Do you get rid of the guy that's cheaper and has more upside? Or do you keep a guy who's going to cost $8.2 million, and I don't want to say he's hit the ceiling, but you know there's not much for room for him to based on his lack of fast-switch."
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
^he is also good friends with hurney.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Doesn't really invalidate those points. I think we all said they were basically the same guy when Funch was drafted. Difference being Funchess can play every position WR wise while Benji seemed more limited.
pantherclub
Footballguy
i know you are joking but would that honestly surprise you if Richardson and Hurney brought him back?
pantherclub
Footballguy
stratocatter
Footballguy
Man, J Stew. That pass in Chicago, this ####. And he looks horrible when he doesn't drop it.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
This is one creative offense
Jayrok
Footballguy
It was a good win. I'm curious if we can hang with NO in the dome, though. It would be a huge lift if Olsen was back in this offense with Funchess now the only big target outside.
Glad J. Jones dropped that TD pass. Don't see that often.
And wouldn't mind seeing CAP on the field more to spell Stewart, who looks like he's on his last legs... and they look pretty wobbly. He's played awful the last few games.
Hind sight and all that, yeah.. but we could have drafted Alvin Kamara with one of our 2 second round picks last spring.
Glad J. Jones dropped that TD pass. Don't see that often.
And wouldn't mind seeing CAP on the field more to spell Stewart, who looks like he's on his last legs... and they look pretty wobbly. He's played awful the last few games.
Hind sight and all that, yeah.. but we could have drafted Alvin Kamara with one of our 2 second round picks last spring.
simey
Footballguy
Dickson is a big body, but they just don't seem to target him much except for in that one game. I guess he is blocking more due to the OL woes. I think if McCaffrey was playing for NO, he would be doing the same thing as Kamara, and doing it just as well.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Sure, but I'm not saying draft Kamara over McCaffrey. I'm just saying we could have both. Heck, I wouldn't mind having Corey Clement in the back field, and he wasn't even drafted.
People can say what they want about CMC, but I love the guy. Some of the best hands this conference has seen.
Edit: And that wasn't a knock on Dickson. He's done well at TE. I'm saying Funchess is the only big target on the outside since Benji is gone. Dickson is fine, but Olsen would have more opportunities across the middle.
Last edited by a moderator:
simey
Footballguy
I liked the reaction from Cam and the offensive guys when they got mad when the FG unit was being sent out on 4th and 1 around Atlanta's 31 yard line. Rivera didn't appreciate the behavior, but he did change his mind. Cam had been running all over Atlanta, and there was a good chance he could get that 1 yard.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I would have loved to see Kamara and CMC here. Was really hoping we would pick Kamara from the outset.
NCCommish
Footballguy
On Dickinson. I am.ssuming he is stuck blocking because Lord knows we need the help there.
On Stewart I think it's time to call it. When athletes hit the end it's like falling off a cliff. And a look at Stews numbers show he has pulled a Wile E Coyote. Absolutely abysmal. You can not make the we need more speed argument against Benjamin while keeping Stew on the field. He seemingly has no burst left at all. Slow to hit holes and no threat of breaking away if he does find daylight. More CAP and CMC way less Stew.
On Stewart I think it's time to call it. When athletes hit the end it's like falling off a cliff. And a look at Stews numbers show he has pulled a Wile E Coyote. Absolutely abysmal. You can not make the we need more speed argument against Benjamin while keeping Stew on the field. He seemingly has no burst left at all. Slow to hit holes and no threat of breaking away if he does find daylight. More CAP and CMC way less Stew.
NCCommish
Footballguy
So the Defense is now #1. Hopefully they can keep that level of play going.
I think the most interesting stat for me from the game had to do with Funchess. Almost half of his yards came after the catch. That bodes well for his switch in position.
The Panthers insisting Stew is still Stew was probably the worst thing to come out of the game. He clearly isn't. A failure to recognize that is a failure to adjust and I fear it will cost us.
I think the most interesting stat for me from the game had to do with Funchess. Almost half of his yards came after the catch. That bodes well for his switch in position.
The Panthers insisting Stew is still Stew was probably the worst thing to come out of the game. He clearly isn't. A failure to recognize that is a failure to adjust and I fear it will cost us.
simey
Footballguy
Hopefully the coaching staff will remind themselves this is a business. You put the player on the field that gives you the best chance to win. Stewart has slowed down, and it doesn't make sense for him to be leading the pack anymore. CAP and McCaffrey need to be given more chances. The season is half over, and it is apparent that Stewart's 10 years of playing RB has taken its toll on his body. He can be useful on the sideline coaching up the other backs, and to fill in now and then. Maybe they will make some adjustments after the bye. Who knows.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
