The Great 2020 All Time Television Draft: The Simpsons is judged the greatest show of all time (3 Viewers)

[krista4]

71-90 lead actor and actress drama and drama show

By the way, I have the rankings from the other three of us, and while we are all closely aligned in the shows, we are not as close in lead actor and WAYYYYY different in lead actress.  Help us!

 

[Yo Mama]

By the way, I have the rankings from the other three of us, and while we are all closely aligned in the shows, we are not as close in lead actor and WAYYYYY different in lead actress.  Help us!

Ok cool - I’ll try to get you something tomorrow, maybe Wednesday worst case. 

 

[krista4]

Ok cool - I’ll try to get you something tomorrow, maybe Wednesday worst case. 

Not a rush!  Thanks for the help.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

By the way, I have the rankings from the other three of us, and while we are all closely aligned in the shows, we are not as close in lead actor and WAYYYYY different in lead actress.  Help us!

 

[Zow]

Can I ask for some help with both sci-fi and horror? If anyone wants to send a 1-16 (comments optional), I'd appreciate it. It's impossible to give a completely fair shake to the several shows I am unfamiliar with. I'll watch a little, but I'd appreciate other's opinions to balance my own.

I will try but don't wait for my input if you're ready.

 

[jwb]

I will try but don't wait for my input if you're ready.

Nope, not ready at all. Will be several days at best, more likely into next week, so anyone wanting to send a 1-16 is fine. No comments necessary.

 

[Gally]

Can I ask for some help with both sci-fi and horror? If anyone wants to send a 1-16 (comments optional), I'd appreciate it. It's impossible to give a completely fair shake to the several shows I am unfamiliar with. I'll watch a little, but I'd appreciate other's opinions to balance my own.

This is why I haven't thrown my hat into the judging ring.  Each category has a bunch of choices that I have never heard of so it would be impossible for me to judge.  Maybe if you send a DM to the teams of the shows that you haven't seen they can give you a bit of insight into why they think those shows are worthy and what made them good in their eyes.  Maybe they could also give you some direction onto which episodes you should watch to get a good feel for the show to focus your research a bit.  Just an idea.  

 

[AcerFC]

Yup 

Would love to judge, but not willing to if i have not watched shows in that category. Wouldnt be fair to the drafter imo

 

[Corporation]

By the way, I have the rankings from the other three of us, and while we are all closely aligned in the shows, we are not as close in lead actor and WAYYYYY different in lead actress.  Help us!

I can help if needed as well.

  14 hours ago, jwb said:
Can I ask for some help with both sci-fi and horror? If anyone wants to send a 1-16 (comments optional), I'd appreciate it. It's impossible to give a completely fair shake to the several shows I am unfamiliar with. I'll watch a little, but I'd appreciate other's opinions to balance my own.

I can help with sci-fi and horror if needed.  I checked to see if I had seen most of the horror show, and I have.  Wouldn't have thought GoT as a horror show so perhaps I need to see if there were posts that clarified it (I see the word Supernatural) behind the category so it would fit there.

 

[Gally]

I can help if needed as well.

I can help with sci-fi and horror if needed.  I checked to see if I had seen most of the horror show, and I have.  Wouldn't have thought GoT as a horror show so perhaps I need to see if there were posts that clarified it (I see the word Supernatural) behind the category so it would fit there.

Yes, the category is a hybrid of the two (Horror/Supernatural) so that both were eligible for the category.  Up to the judge to figure out how to rank them when comparing totally different feels.  

 

[AcerFC]

Yes, the category is a hybrid of the two (Horror/Supernatural) so that both were eligible for the category.  Up to the judge to figure out how to rank them when comparing totally different feels.  

well, there is one show that is both so that should be the obvious winner imo

 

[Gally]

well, there is one show that is both so that should be the obvious winner imo

I think there is more than one....but only one with Horror right in the title so that should be the obvious winner.

 

[Yo Mama]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings

Criteria

Combined rankings with @mphtrilogy @Corporation and @wikkidpissah.  Some pretty big variability between judges in the rankings, aside from the big characters at the top.

Notable exclusions that may have scored well include Claire Dunphy (Modern Family), Abby Bartlett (West Wing), Maxine Gray (Judging Amy) and my favorite undrafted, Ruth Langmore (Ozark).

The Bottom Tier

This turned out to be a pretty big tier since they either had consistently mid/low rankings or one judge who was much higher on a particular character than others.  It was hard to differentiate this grouping too much.  The characters either featured excellent individual performances within their shows and limited reach into pop culture, or more renowned in pop culture with less of an impact within their shows – not enough of both to move into the higher tiers.  Some may have fared better on FootballGals message boards and couldn’t break the glass ceiling of male dominated judging.

16 - Elka Ostrovsky (1 pts)

Played by Betty White on Hot in Cleveland - 1 Emmy nomination, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 1/1/1/6)

15 - Olena Tyrell (2 pts)

Played by Diana Rigg on Game of Trones - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 2/2/10/1)

14 - Dr. Cristina Yang (3 pts)

Played by Sandra Oh on Grey's Anatomy - 5 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 3/5/4/5)

13 - Samantha Jones (4 pts)

Played by Kim Cattrall on Sex and the City - 5 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 4/6/5/3)

*** Biggest faller in the rankings – was the 7th selection in this category ***

12 - Michonne (5 pts)

Played by Danai Gurira on The Walking Dead - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 8/4/7/2)

11 - Joan P Holloway Harris (6 pts)

Played by Christina Hendricks on Mad Men - 6 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 7/7/3/10)

10 - Berta (7 pts)

Played by Conchata Ferrell on Two and a Half Men - 2 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 6/3/6/15)

 

[Yo Mama]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings – Part 2

The Supporting All-Stars

All of these excellent characters could easily be seen as co-lead within their series.  Perfectly suited to have enough personality to complement the main characters’ story lines and complex enough to be frequently highlighted for their own.  Memorable both within their shows and in pop culture.

9 - Kim Wexler (8 pts)

Played by Rhea Seehorn on Better Call Saul - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 10/9/2/13)

8 - Kara Thrace (Starbuck) (9 pts)

Played by Katee Sackhoff on Battlestar Gallactica - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 5/11/12/7)

7 - Det. Shakima "Kima" Greggs (10 pts)

Played by Sonja Sohn on The Wire - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 9/8/8/11)

6 - Willow Rosenberg (11 pts)

Played by Alysson Hannigan on Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 13/12/9/4)

5 - Karen Walker (12 pts)

Played by Megan Mullally on Will & Grace - 8 Emmy nominations, with 2 wins

(Individual rankings - 12/13/11/9)

4 - Phoebe Buffay (13 pts)

Played by Lisa Kudrow on Friends - 6 Emmy nominations, with 1 win

(Individual rankings - 11/10/13/12)

*** Best bargain in the rankings – was the 9th selection in this category ***

 

[Yo Mama]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings – Part 3

The Super-Stars

Both had significant footprints within their shows and both came as breakthrough performances that made them future headliners and/or well known in pop culture.

3 - Daenerys Targaryen (14 pts)

Played by Emilia Clarke on Game of Thrones - 3 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 15/14/15/8)

2 - C. J. Cregg (15 pts)

Played by Allison Janney on The West Wing - 2 Emmy nominations, with 2 wins

(Individual rankings - 14/15/14/14)

 

[Yo Mama]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings – Part 4

The Supporting Queen

Unanimous top choice that deserves her own tier.  Julia Louis-Dreyfus will likely give us two different top rated performances in this draft, and had a third (Christine Campbell) who had some serious Emmy recognition and could have received a few points in that category too.  MVP actor for the TV draft in my opinion.

1 - Elaine Benes (16 pts)

Played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus on Seinfeld - 7 Emmy nominations, with 1 win

(Individual rankings - 16/16/16/16)

 

[Yo Mama]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Final Rankings

16 pts - Elaine Benes (#1)

15 pts - C. J. Cregg (#2)

14 pts - Daenerys Targaryen (#3)

13 pts - Phoebe Buffay (#4)

12 pts - Karen Walker (#5)

11 pts - Willow Rosenberg (#6)

10 pts - Det. Shakima "Kima" Greggs (#7)

9 pts - Kara Thrace (Starbuck) (#8)

8 pts - Kim Wexler (#9)

7 pts - Berta (#10)

6 pts - Joan P Holloway Harris (#11)

5 pts - Michonne (#12)

4 pts - Samantha Jones (#13)

3 pts - Dr. Cristina Yang (#14)

2 pts - Olena Tyrell (#15)

1 pts - Elka Ostrovsky (#16)

 

[Uruk-Hai]

9 - Kim Wexler (8 pts)

Played by Rhea Seehorn on Better Call Saul - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 10/9/2/13)

I can't claim to have watched every great show in the last 30 years, but I'll put Kim Wexler up against any character I have seen. How Rhea Seehorn hasn't even gotten an Emmy nomination is a complete mystery to me.

 

[KarmaPolice]

6 - Willow Rosenberg (11 pts)

Played by Alysson Hannigan on Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 13/12/9/4)

 A 4???  I want names!! 

Actually, pleasantly surprised by the final rankings despite taking her fairly early.  

 

[Mr. Mojo]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Final Rankings

16 pts - Elaine Benes (#1)

15 pts - C. J. Cregg (#2)

14 pts - Daenerys Targaryen (#3)

13 pts - Phoebe Buffay (#4)

12 pts - Karen Walker (#5)

11 pts - Willow Rosenberg (#6)

10 pts - Det. Shakima "Kima" Greggs (#7)

9 pts - Kara Thrace (Starbuck) (#8)

8 pts - Kim Wexler (#9)

7 pts - Berta (#10)

6 pts - Joan P Holloway Harris (#11)

5 pts - Michonne (#12)

4 pts - Samantha Jones (#13)

3 pts - Dr. Cristina Yang (#14)

2 pts - Olena Tyrell (#15)

1 pts - Elka Ostrovsky (#16)

Phoebe Buffay over Kim Wexler, Michonne and Olena Tyrell? 

My least favorite Friends character over 3 favorites from other shows.

Previously we have agreed a lot so this seems way off.

 

[Hov34]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings – Part 3

The Super-Stars

Both had significant footprints within their shows and both came as breakthrough performances that made them future headliners and/or well known in pop culture.

3 - Daenerys Targaryen (14 pts)

Played by Emilia Clarke on Game of Thrones - 3 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 15/14/15/8)

2 - C. J. Cregg (15 pts)

Played by Allison Janney on The West Wing - 2 Emmy nominations, with 2 wins

(Individual rankings - 14/15/14/14)

Emilia Clarke's "acting" should have disqualified her from the top 5.

 

[Hov34]

1991-2020 Supporting Woman Rankings

10 - Berta (7 pts)

Played by Conchata Ferrell on Two and a Half Men - 2 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 6/3/6/15)

What the actual ####?

 

[KarmaPolice]

yeah, I am pretty critical of GOT and my loves/hates of that show.   Dany was one of my least favorite characters, and Olena one of my favorites.  

I get the argument from a screen-time perspective, but for sure not a quality of that screen time or the quality of the character and acting.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Emilia Clarke's "acting" should have disqualified her from the top 5.

I was actually surprised by the 3 Emmy nominations listed.  

 

[Yo Mama]

Emilia Clarke's "acting" should have disqualified her from the top 5.

Yeah, but her pop culture footprint was huge. People were getting tattoos of her and naming their kids after her. 
 

That’s the challenge with the character rankings, weighing in the acting and awards recognition with pop culture relevance. 

 

[Yo Mama]

Phoebe Buffay over Kim Wexler, Michonne and Olena Tyrell? 

My least favorite Friends character over 3 favorites from other shows.

Previously we have agreed a lot so this seems way off.

I was on the lower end with my Phoebe rankings of the judges, but she was very prominent in her role with huge pop culture relevance - more so of both things for a longer period than any of those three. Also, I think she benefits from having consistent fairly high ratings from our judges and didn’t get dinged by a low outlier ranking like some others. 

 

[AcerFC]

yeah, phoebe is the suck. worst character on the show and not even close

 

[tuffnutt]

Phoebe Buffay over Kim Wexler, Michonne and Olena Tyrell? 

My least favorite Friends character over 3 favorites from other shows.

Previously we have agreed a lot so this seems way off.

So no one told you the rankings were going be this way? 

 

[Yo Mama]

yeah, phoebe is the suck. worst character on the show and not even close

And yet she still got 6 Emmy nominations and performed "one of the most iconic tunes of the 90s" per Comedy Central (Smelly Cat, which is now going to be stuck in your head it’s so well known).  
 

Can’t believe I’m defending Phoebe since shes not my favorite either. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

most of the stuff y'all are complaining about is the result of the lists i submitted

 

[Charlie Steiner]

yeah, I am pretty critical of GOT and my loves/hates of that show.   Dany was one of my least favorite characters, and Olena one of my favorites.  

I get the argument from a screen-time perspective, but for sure not a quality of that screen time or the quality of the character and acting.  

I think at some point, you have to look beyond the hardware and/or pop culture relevance and look at the character.  Olenna was brilliant from top to bottom.  Her actions until her death played a significant role in the direction of the events of the show (and while you can say that about other characters, we're talking about a widely acclaimed AND AWARDED show that her character was a mover and shaker of), she had some amazing dialogues and one-liners and was a boss from start to finish, using her last words to take one last shot at her enemy.  I still stand by having Diana Rigg's biggest early and late career roles as worthy additions to my team.

 

[mphtrilogy]

I held back my Kim vote as she was my pick, but she's 2nd in the category for me, but I am trying to balance that with the general vibe and I am sure I cost myself a few slots as I ranked her much lower to remove my choice bias... I do use Emmy wins/noms to review or nudge otherwise it's all personal.  That being said I love Willow and had her pretty high...

 

[AcerFC]

Karen Walker being higher than Kim Wexler is equally criminal

 

[AcerFC]

And yet she still got 6 Emmy nominations and performed "one of the most iconic tunes of the 90s" per Comedy Central (Smelly Cat, which is now going to be stuck in your head it’s so well known).  
 

Can’t believe I’m defending Phoebe since shes not my favorite either. 

Here is where using Emmy wins and nominations is tricky. Lisa Kudrow may have done a fantastic job acting as Phoebe but the character was awful

 

[Yo Mama]

I think at some point, you have to look beyond the hardware and/or pop culture relevance and look at the character.  Olenna was brilliant from top to bottom.  Her actions until her death played a significant role in the direction of the events of the show (and while you can say that about other characters, we're talking about a widely acclaimed AND AWARDED show that her character was a mover and shaker of), she had some amazing dialogues and one-liners and was a boss from start to finish, using her last words to take one last shot at her enemy.  I still stand by having Diana Rigg's biggest early and late career roles as worthy additions to my team.

She also only had 44 minutes of screen time over the course of the series.  And though she had some epic moments and quotes (some that turned into memes like a cat wearing her headdress saying “tell her it was me”), I’m not sure how many non-GOT viewers know much about that character.  She was an incredible character, but that was my reasoning for her lower ranking. 

 

[mphtrilogy]

Karen Walker being higher than Kim Wexler is equally criminal

2 emmy wins hard to ignore, I wish you had judged this one, my Kim pick would've done much better...

 

[Yo Mama]

I made a mistake posting results on a day nobody else was releasing rankings. Should have mixed them in with other rankings to take some of the spotlight off. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

most of the stuff y'all are complaining about is the result of the lists i submitted

You done gave Willow a 4? 

 

[krista4]

Here is where using Emmy wins and nominations is tricky. Lisa Kudrow may have done a fantastic job acting as Phoebe but the character was awful

I tried to make this point twice but have been chastised for it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I made a mistake posting results on a day nobody else was releasing rankings. Should have mixed them in with other rankings to take some of the spotlight off. 

Its all good.   I mean, unlike the teen movies, at least Phoebe and Dany were supporting females! 

 

[mphtrilogy]

I am interested to know how non-judges feel, should all Emmy/Noms and wins be ignored completely?

For me what else can you go on other than personal gut feel?  

Just wondering how folks feel as judging without reviewing any accolades seems very biased... that's just my two cents...

 

[AcerFC]

I am interested to know how non-judges feel, should all Emmy/Noms and wins be ignored completely?

For me what else can you go on other than personal gut feel?  

Just wondering how folks feel as judging without reviewing any accolades seems very biased... that's just my two cents...

Is this a character based draft or an acting draft

I want my character to be compared to other characters, not the actors/actresses that play them. The whole thing is subjective anyway as evidenced by Pheobe Buffay ranking that high

 

[AcerFC]

Looks like Cliff Huxtable will get a 1

 

[Yo Mama]

Wexler also would have gotten a few more points in the results, but she got a 2 rating from one of the judges  

. 

 

[mphtrilogy]

Wexler also would have gotten a few more points in the results, but she got a 2 rating from one of the judges  

. 

that's a tough one to swallow....

oh well no emmy wins or noms, lol

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am interested to know how non-judges feel, should all Emmy/Noms and wins be ignored completely?

For me what else can you go on other than personal gut feel?  

Just wondering how folks feel as judging without reviewing any accolades seems very biased... that's just my two cents...

I think we should come to expect that it is going to widely vary, and that is a function of both a category like character, and doing a draft without many rules on how we are defining these things.  

I honestly don't disagree much with the scores, its just hard when a couple I actually knew I really disliked as characters.  

We can't do much better than having multiple judges for as many categories as we can and taking an average. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

Here is where using Emmy wins and nominations is tricky. Lisa Kudrow may have done a fantastic job acting as Phoebe but the character was awful

pretty sure Lisa Kudrow would agree with you

 

[KarmaPolice]

Is this a character based draft or an acting draft

I want my character to be compared to other characters, not the actors/actresses that play them. The whole thing is subjective anyway as evidenced by Pheobe Buffay ranking that high

Honestly this is a great point.  Tim was specific all along that we are drafting characters.  While Emmys should factor in and give a clue on popularity or influence, it probably should be more of a tie breaker and not the main criteria.  

Emilia getting Emmy noms shouldn't matter as much as character arc, influence, prominence, quality, etc.  

 

[Yo Mama]

My thinking on Emmys in my rankings is just that they were a grounding point on how well recognized they were so not everything was just my personal opinion - trying to reduce my personal bias as much as possible. 
 

I called them out in the writeups as a reference point because I thought it was interesting, not because that was the basis for my rankings. 
 

Look at the amount of Emmy nominations in our bottom tier, for example. 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My thinking on Emmys in my rankings is just that they were a grounding point on how well recognized they were so not everything was just my personal opinion - trying to reduce my personal bias as much as possible. 
 

I called them out in the writeups as a reference point because I thought it was interesting, not because that was the basis for my rankings. 
 

Look at the amount of Emmy nominations in our bottom tier, for example. 

Yeah, my whining about Seehorn's lack of Emmys had nothing to do with the ranking.

I DID think the character was ranked too low, though.