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Tiger Woods (1 Viewer)

Doug B said:
Spootch said:
I don't like it either, but it's never going to change. He has the best record of any active golfer by a wide margin and will be remembered as the best or second best player in history. The extra coverage is going to continue until he retires, regardless of how he performs.
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Was trying to see if there was anything about Jack Nicklaus' career and TV coverage that might be instructive here.

Nicklaus won two majors in 1980, and then had a 2nd-place major finish in each of 1981, 1982, and 1983 -- with three more major top 10s scattered in their as well. He was just above average (18th-31th place) in all 1984 majors, and then finished 6th at the 1985 Masters. So ... when he won the Masters in 1986 -- which was kind of treated as some huge out of nowhere comeback -- Nicklaus had actually remained totally relevant at major tournaments between his 1980s major victories.

Between 1987 and 1998, Jack had three more Masters top 10s (his last one at age 58!), but was fading away in the other majors. His last major tournament in which he made the cur and finished all four rounds was in the 2000 Masters , at age 60.

Seems like it took a long while for Nicklaus to gradually fade off the golf scene. And his decline started at later age than Tiger's. Seems like what Tiger Woods is going through is close to unprecedented for a player of his caliber.
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Greatest individual collapse in the history of sports.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Who are the best golfers in Tiger's "generation"? Does Mickelson count? I don't know that the last 25 years of a golfer's career are entirely irrelevant to evaluating the greatest of a generation (or of his time).
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I started off, before researching, with the question: "Was there as a time when Nicklaus was getting more coverage than his game warranted?" Not really about the talent of respective generations or anything.

Anyway, I had expected to find a period of time with Jack's TV coverage that was similar to what Tiger's going through now. As I researched it, though, I found that Jack actually was credibly relevant (at least in the Masters) for a really long time ... much longer than I had thought. And I thought that was interesting to contrast with Tiger Woods current struggles and TV coverage. That's all.

 
I like the Tiger coverage

It's good to see when he hits a good one. It's fun to see when he hits a bad one and watch the crow eaten in here. :shrug:

 
He's only 12 strokes off the lead. Why are people counting him out? :confused:

If they all drop 6 strokes and he makes up 6 strokes, he's right there on Sunday afternoon. :shrug:

 
He's got seven holes left. I know it would be a long shot for him to make up five shots but it's a bit premature for all the analysts to be declaring he missed the cut already. Odd.

 
Doug B said:
Spootch said:
I don't like it either, but it's never going to change. He has the best record of any active golfer by a wide margin and will be remembered as the best or second best player in history. The extra coverage is going to continue until he retires, regardless of how he performs.
Click to expand...
Was trying to see if there was anything about Jack Nicklaus' career and TV coverage that might be instructive here.

Nicklaus won two majors in 1980, and then had a 2nd-place major finish in each of 1981, 1982, and 1983 -- with three more major top 10s scattered in their as well. He was just above average (18th-31th place) in all 1984 majors, and then finished 6th at the 1985 Masters. So ... when he won the Masters in 1986 -- which was kind of treated as some huge out of nowhere comeback -- Nicklaus had actually remained totally relevant at major tournaments between his 1980s major victories.

Between 1987 and 1998, Jack had three more Masters top 10s (his last one at age 58!), but was fading away in the other majors. His last major tournament in which he made the cur and finished all four rounds was in the 2000 Masters , at age 60.

Seems like it took a long while for Nicklaus to gradually fade off the golf scene. And his decline started at later age than Tiger's. Seems like what Tiger Woods is going through is close to unprecedented for a player of his caliber.
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There are basically no, at most one, players of his caliber, so there's not a whole lot of data here.

 
Tiger must be so pissed right now, has to wait around to complete his round and miss the cut. Woke up early to go out in this wind and now sits around for hours to just play out the string. Giving the conditions, it is not like it will be valuable holes of tourney golf for him to have under his belt. Amanda Dufner better load up on the lube.

 
Tiger's going to be 254th in the world when the new rankings come out next week. He's taking a spot away from a golfer who actually might be able to compete.

 
The below sounds a lot like what Finless said... 6 years ago. :coffee:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/the-new-norm--tiger-woods-misses-the-cut-at-the-british-open-190710338.html

The new normal: Tiger Woods misses the cut at the British Open
Jay Hart By Jay Hart
10 hours ago
Devil Ball Golf

After shooting a 4-over 76 in Round 1 of the British Open, Tiger Woods explained why he still had a chance, despite being 11 strokes back:
"I'm so far back and the leaderboard is so bunched that in order for me to get in there by Sunday, I'm going to have to have the conditions tough and then obviously put together some really solid rounds. If you shoot some good, solid rounds in tough conditions like that, players can move up the board, and hopefully I'm one of them."

Friday gave him exactly what he wanted – heavy rain followed by blustery winds. Aaaaand … Tiger went 1-over before play was suspended.

Saturday also gave him exactly what he wanted – wind gusting more than 25 mph. Aaaaand … Tiger went 2-over for a second-round 75 – 7-over for the tournament.

Now, for the second straight major, Woods missed the cut by a mile. Seven strokes at St. Andrews, backing up his 11-stroke deficit at last month's U.S. Open.

We're talking about strokes short of the cut here, not the lead.

This is where we're at now in the demise of the greatest player of the 21st century. It's gotten so bad we're past the Schadenfreude stage, with the nanny-nanny boo-boos replaced by cringes.

Cringe-worthy is the perfect descriptor of Woods' game these days. He can barely hit a fairway (59 percent this week), struggles to hit a green in regulation (23 of 36) and can't knock down putts.

On 18, staring down a short birdie putt of about 5 feet, Tiger pushed it right in what amounts to a microcosm of his entire game.

The old Tiger knocked those down every time. Like every single time.

"I'm just not scoring. Every opportunity I have to make a key putt or hit an iron shot in there stiff with a short iron and get some momentum going, I haven't done that," he said after his round in one of his more honest moments. "I haven't gotten anything out of my rounds. I'll hit good shots, I'll string together some good shots and good holes and put myself in position to make a run, and I don't do it."

He's as bad now as he used to be good. Like him or not, that stinks, because however you feel about Tiger, he was always good theater. Was. And his chase of Jack Nicklaus' record 18 majors, whether he ever got there or not, was a chase worth watching. Was.

There's really no question anymore that he won't get there. That's fine. But let's not go so far as to characterize his game now as Willie Mays manning centerfield in a Mets uniform. Tiger may be past his prime, but he's only 39, hardly a time for him to hang it up.

The push for that comes from without – from us. More precisely, from those who think just because he's no longer the player he was means he should no longer try, lest he tarnish the shine on a once-brilliant career.

Blah blah blah.

No, this wasn't the ending we foresaw nearly 20 years ago when a 21-year-old lapped the field at Augusta. And it is stunning that the downfall of Tiger Woods, the most mentally tough athlete this side of Michael Jordan, is coming from between the ears. But it's the ending we're getting, and we were never guaranteed anything else.

There's still fight in Tiger, which is why he continues to try to convince everyone, maybe even himself, that he's got a shot. On some weekends down the road, he will, no doubt about that. Some, just not most.

"Keep going. Keep going forward," he said Saturday. "I play in a couple weeks in D.C., so looking forward to playing the Quicken Loans, and hopefully win that event so I can get into a place that I know very well."

A place he used to know well. He hasn't been there in two years.

Everything's different now. He's no longer the player to beat, not the intimidator he once was, the red shirt on Sundays (if he even gets there) not meaning what it used to. Other than the 14 majors on his résumé and the few hundred million in the bank, he's just another player in the field.

It's time to get used to that. Time to be OK with it.
 
Wooderson said:
ghostguy123 said:
Daywalker said:
If a guy wins player of the year in 2013 can you take credit for saying he was done in 2009?
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yes
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I'm going to go with no.
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Depends how you define "done".

We still won't know for several more years or longer whether or not he is "done", but predicting he would be done back in 2009 and seeing what we have seen, well, it was a rather good prediction to this point.

I still don't think he is "done", and that he certainly has a chance and plenty of time to put together more good golf, but in the past 5-6 years he has been rather horrific as a whole, much worse than pretty much anyone thought he would be, even people who said he was "done" probably.

 
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Lots of amateurs in the hunt at The Open. Maybe Tiger can get special permission to revert to amateur status. He doesn't need the money.

 
There was a great line in an ESPN piece over the weekend. "He may have done this to himself, chasing the myth of a perfect swing." I just will never understand someone who was widely considered as the best ever completely tearing down and rebuilding his swing over and over. He just can't help but tinker. Now he hits his irons fat, can't control the distance on his wedges. He was talking about "taking a look at the spin rates" after his round yesterday as to explain his issues. He needs to just hit the thing, try to get it close and make as many putts as he can. He has gone Paul Stankowski on us. Why risk changing the swing when you're already the best when the risk is losing everything? Get rid of this high tech guy he's with now and go back to basics. You don't hear any other pro talking the way he talks after the round with all the technical jargon.

 
Willie Neslon said:
There was a great line in an ESPN piece over the weekend. "He may have done this to himself, chasing the myth of a perfect swing." I just will never understand someone who was widely considered as the best ever completely tearing down and rebuilding his swing over and over. He just can't help but tinker. Now he hits his irons fat, can't control the distance on his wedges. He was talking about "taking a look at the spin rates" after his round yesterday as to explain his issues. He needs to just hit the thing, try to get it close and make as many putts as he can. He has gone Paul Stankowski on us. Why risk changing the swing when you're already the best when the risk is losing everything? Get rid of this high tech guy he's with now and go back to basics. You don't hear any other pro talking the way he talks after the round with all the technical jargon.
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I think Azinger summed it up by saying, "everyone wanted to swing the club like Tiger except Tiger."

 
Willie Neslon said:
There was a great line in an ESPN piece over the weekend. "He may have done this to himself, chasing the myth of a perfect swing." I just will never understand someone who was widely considered as the best ever completely tearing down and rebuilding his swing over and over. He just can't help but tinker. Now he hits his irons fat, can't control the distance on his wedges. He was talking about "taking a look at the spin rates" after his round yesterday as to explain his issues. He needs to just hit the thing, try to get it close and make as many putts as he can. He has gone Paul Stankowski on us. Why risk changing the swing when you're already the best when the risk is losing everything? Get rid of this high tech guy he's with now and go back to basics. You don't hear any other pro talking the way he talks after the round with all the technical jargon.
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This is spot on. I thought that comment about looking at spin rates was pretty odd too. If you're playing near perfect golf and want a minor tweak or two, maybe you look at stuff like that. He's hitting it like a regular Joe at a local course; his problems are a whole lot bigger than spin rates. He needs a reset, needs to look at the big picture and get comfortable again. It's like he's a crazy old scientist sitting in his lab so consumed with cracking the code of the most perfect swing of all time that he's letting his career pass him by. He sounds obsessed about the wrong things.

 
I'm guessing decision makers at Nike have discussed what this means for their brand. I'm sure they expected a gradual slide into elder statesman role but duffing near the bottom while still in his 40s was probably not in the marketing strategy memo.

 
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Otis said:
Doug B said:
Was trying to see if there was anything about Jack Nicklaus' career and TV coverage that might be instructive here ...
Click to expand...
There are basically no, at most one, players of his caliber, so there's not a whole lot of data here.
Click to expand...
That depends on two things: (a) evaluating majors vs. non-majors, and (b) height of peak vs. sustained excellence.

One could also credibly say that Tiger's personal best was the best any pro golfer has ever played. In the next breath, the same person could say that Jack Nicklaus had a more accomplished career than Tiger Woods has had to date, measured by career Top 10s in majors..

 
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