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US Men's National Team (27 Viewers)
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
He had just missed a couple of guys on free kicks in previous games. He hits a nice, flat delivery with pace. I also think that despite the complaints I’ve heard tonight, he was the most effective MF in winning back the ball. He wasn’t breaking down the defense, but neither was anyone else.
El Floppo
Footballguy
My problem with him was passing the ball to Saydi over and over. So, I guess fair play to win the ball back. But as I said... At least he was trying to find that longer attacking ball... Where none of the other MFs were doing anything other than taking their first and subsequent touches backwards.
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
Been a while since we've had a creator up there. It's been the same big body brick feet types. Something has to give
Eta: a 9 doesn't have to hold the ball to be effective. The US folks seem to think its a prerequisite
El Floppo
Footballguy
Really not good
El Floppo
Footballguy
**** yeah. And use your hands too dammit
TLEF316
Footballguy
We can send out big sprinters like agyemang (no disrespect. Hes working his *** off and understands the assignment) and out-athlete Saudi Arabia.
Can't do that against better teams when they have elite champions league level center backs to break it up
Now....we may never beat those teams playing the "right" way either.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I said WIN and hold the ball. He's not doing it in the MF today- getting muscled and sped of the ball all night, why would it work better upfield?.
He needs to be facing and going at goal.. at least where I've seen him at his best.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Really really
El Floppo
Footballguy
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
Philosophical differences in guess...
More dangerous runs, dangerous through balls, etc instead of send it and hope agiuymeng/zardes/dike/haji can hold up and help create.
I dont see any angled runs or through balls. None. Easy to defend what the US is putting out now. Luna not a left mid which he is effectively playing now.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Renard. Too handsome to send off.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
If you want to play a false nine or holding striker, you better have one. The US does not. 4231 better have one or a dynamic creator/scorer.
It doesn't help that it appears poch will never have a full squad + time to work with that full squad to figure it out.
It doesn't help that it appears poch will never have a full squad + time to work with that full squad to figure it out.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I agree they need more diagonals... But that's not a product of who's up there- all those guys feed off that kind of run and ball. AG is at his best when the balls put into those kinds of spaces. But Other than a ball or two today, I haven't seen any US teams pump it up to a big target 9 in the middle of the field... Maybe ever. They work the ball wide and the forward tries to find the spots to get on the end of it in the box.
Lunas role... I feel confident saying is not the 9 making those runs or not. He was getting to beat to balls by Saudi players all night, and then getting muscles off the ball when he had it. He needs to be deeper going at goal with the ball at his feet..maybe a false 9 with somebody else up there, or maybe as a 10.
El Floppo
Footballguy
The thing about Ag... He shows flashes of being that guy. Uses his big body to get to and win the space and ball- best on diagonals, but also on shorter or more direct balls. But then isn't very clean with his touch, and inexplicably doesn't have that same mastery of using his body once he's won the ball.
A guy like Pepi might do really well here... Especially if his MF doesn't play everything square or back.
Again, despite my complaints about Seb, he was the only one other than Ream trying to hit balls long either on a switch or diagonal.
Swag, weah, dest, Jedi.. even musah.. all completely change what all of this looks like.. let alone CP.
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
I was hoping poch had thos different view...a fresh look at how players may fit into some kind of system. Any system. I've come away already with the realization its more of the same. I don't know if the Federally get there paws on folks or what but we have had hope before...
Klinsmann - no us ties, upheave the youth system, change the world
GGG - Up and coming MLS type, a real american, change the world
Poch - no ties to anything American, shake it up, do things his way....
Yet its been the same since after the US shocked the world in '94. Mediocre.
Many have mentioned it before... let's go back to American "kick ***" soccer. Quit trying to build from the back. Put our creative players in attacking positions. Put our athletes in back and stop the counters.
Something in the US upper elite gold bracket echelon needs to change. We aren't Spain, or Germany or even man city.
I get the feeling poch's hands are tied. It almost feels like the u14 club coach that's been told "you got the vest of the best. Absolute studs. But Johnny's dad is the ceo of the local hospital and he plays center mid. Oh yeah, Billy's mom is the head of the local realtors and he plays cb. Oh and Phillip's dad runs the largest AI hedge fund in the US. BTW he plays left wing. Shoot, I forgot to mention Diego's dad own 18 restaraunts in town. He plays keeper".
That's why im not coaching club anymore. Something is off with this team and I feel like I see the symptoms but don't know the cure.
Klinsmann - no us ties, upheave the youth system, change the world
GGG - Up and coming MLS type, a real american, change the world
Poch - no ties to anything American, shake it up, do things his way....
Yet its been the same since after the US shocked the world in '94. Mediocre.
Many have mentioned it before... let's go back to American "kick ***" soccer. Quit trying to build from the back. Put our creative players in attacking positions. Put our athletes in back and stop the counters.
Something in the US upper elite gold bracket echelon needs to change. We aren't Spain, or Germany or even man city.
I get the feeling poch's hands are tied. It almost feels like the u14 club coach that's been told "you got the vest of the best. Absolute studs. But Johnny's dad is the ceo of the local hospital and he plays center mid. Oh yeah, Billy's mom is the head of the local realtors and he plays cb. Oh and Phillip's dad runs the largest AI hedge fund in the US. BTW he plays left wing. Shoot, I forgot to mention Diego's dad own 18 restaraunts in town. He plays keeper".
That's why im not coaching club anymore. Something is off with this team and I feel like I see the symptoms but don't know the cure.
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SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
I'll leave it at this...
Richards? He's been great for the natty's. When he lived down here i could name 4 kids that regularly beat him 1v1. 1 is playing D3. 1 quit soccer all together to focus on theater (no joke), 1 quit soccer to kick American footballs, the 4th is my son and he just lost interest just prior to signing D1.
That's 4 kids better than Richards, just in our town, that just said "meh, I don't feel like playing".
Of course, they were all 14 at the time and he took his training to another level after moving away, but thats what we are getting at the national level. Me, the other parents, or even the kids weren't willing to pay the money, move to another city, travel all over with hotel expenses etc etc.., just to get a flash in the pan.
Richards? He's been great for the natty's. When he lived down here i could name 4 kids that regularly beat him 1v1. 1 is playing D3. 1 quit soccer all together to focus on theater (no joke), 1 quit soccer to kick American footballs, the 4th is my son and he just lost interest just prior to signing D1.
That's 4 kids better than Richards, just in our town, that just said "meh, I don't feel like playing".
Of course, they were all 14 at the time and he took his training to another level after moving away, but thats what we are getting at the national level. Me, the other parents, or even the kids weren't willing to pay the money, move to another city, travel all over with hotel expenses etc etc.., just to get a flash in the pan.
SpurrierisisGod
Footballguy
I coached a kid, let's call him pedro, that is 5x better than Luna. He cuts hair now... HE CUTS HAIR.
I tried to help him. Took him to camps. Picked him up at the trailer his family shares with another family 40 minutes away, full on chickens in the yard situation. to drive him to tournaments hours away so he could get seen. Got him connected with college coaches to go to their camps for free dur to hos situation. Only for him to blow out his knee senior year and watch the recruiting just stop. I've never seen free kicks like his before. Pure knuckle balls. And have video to back it up. Luna? Pedro would smoke him.
Natty's aren't getting the best of the best. They're getting the best of who can afford to get to the odp camps and the ecnl camps/tournaments
I tried to help him. Took him to camps. Picked him up at the trailer his family shares with another family 40 minutes away, full on chickens in the yard situation. to drive him to tournaments hours away so he could get seen. Got him connected with college coaches to go to their camps for free dur to hos situation. Only for him to blow out his knee senior year and watch the recruiting just stop. I've never seen free kicks like his before. Pure knuckle balls. And have video to back it up. Luna? Pedro would smoke him.
Natty's aren't getting the best of the best. They're getting the best of who can afford to get to the odp camps and the ecnl camps/tournaments
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The vast vast vast majority of Nats are going to come from two places. MLS academies (which are free) or dual Nats who grow up in a soccer environment better than ours.
The fact that the rest of our system is pay to play will have almost no effect on the tippy tippy tippy top of the pyramid. Yes, maybe there might be a very late bloomer who may have panned out into one of the 35 best players in the country but that is a very small part of the puzzle.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Big Pat is confounding. Many times he does so much of the hard work, and then after a good touch or two the ball just goes flying off his foot.
It is not that he has a bad touch, it is that is it so inconsistent. He brought a couple of balls down in traffic with guys hanging on his back and looked smooth but could not complete the play because before he could lay it off, he would lose control.
Downs is raw but my word does he look like he was cut out of a big strikers mold. That one run he made was so nice to watch him time it perfectly. Big, fast, seems like he can score at the club level. Now we just need to see if he can take the next step next season.
It is not that he has a bad touch, it is that is it so inconsistent. He brought a couple of balls down in traffic with guys hanging on his back and looked smooth but could not complete the play because before he could lay it off, he would lose control.
Downs is raw but my word does he look like he was cut out of a big strikers mold. That one run he made was so nice to watch him time it perfectly. Big, fast, seems like he can score at the club level. Now we just need to see if he can take the next step next season.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
The rest of the world caught up with the US in terms of training to be a superb athlete. I'm not sure that plan works anymore. But if it all goes to **** here, I'd be willing to try.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
We had a kid on our oldest's club team that had a free kick like I've never seen. Buried a free kick from mid field in double overtime to win the state title. Same thing, every ball knuckled but he could put it in the upper corner. As a defender he had 8 and 9 goals in college and I would guess 15 or them were on free kicks. He tried academy for a year but a two hour drive to train and then a two hour drive home is tough to be successful doing.
My youngest had no problem shutting down Sargent when he came out of hiding at IMG. IMO their were plenty of better players but they weren't on the MLS academy clubs so they didn't get the best coaching or opportunities and ended up college. I realize their have been changes since then, but our current USMNT age group is made up of players who emerged from that time period.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Just going on the record to be the first to say that my kid really, really blows at soccer. Just terrible. USSoccer is perpetrating no injustice upon him.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I would disagree with your assessment. He seems capable of starting for us.
McBokonon
Footballguy
And probably getting eliminated from qualifying.
El Floppo
Footballguy
So that happened at least.
El Floppo
Footballguy
It's a different era and all, but players who look great at lower levels don't always translate that play to higher levels. Young players who arent much at 14 can and do grow into much better, international level players. I've experienced and seen all of that first hand.
Granted I want part of an era involving extremely pay to play. We had a pretty clear route: club (town/local) > select team... District (there were 9 in my state) > State > Regional > National. Were there players who got overlooked because they couldn't afford to play on a club that got seen at the district level? Maybe. Probably for immigrant communities.
Granted I want part of an era involving extremely pay to play. We had a pretty clear route: club (town/local) > select team... District (there were 9 in my state) > State > Regional > National. Were there players who got overlooked because they couldn't afford to play on a club that got seen at the district level? Maybe. Probably for immigrant communities.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Don't forget about the awful ODP program...
bagger
Footballguy
On one hand agyemang looks like a baby giraffe learning to walk and then also uses his strength well.
Liked downs up top as well. Having some smaller technical players along with some really physical players is something that I think can work well. Need to create problems generally for other teams and think this accomplishes that.
I think we need to think much broader of how to create pressure through a variety of styles, technically, being physical, and some jackassery.
The more we can have a diverse set of players the better the TEAM will look rather than having the top 11 technical players who are individually better.
Liked downs up top as well. Having some smaller technical players along with some really physical players is something that I think can work well. Need to create problems generally for other teams and think this accomplishes that.
I think we need to think much broader of how to create pressure through a variety of styles, technically, being physical, and some jackassery.
The more we can have a diverse set of players the better the TEAM will look rather than having the top 11 technical players who are individually better.
El Floppo
Footballguy
That was just after my days... Iirc, replaced the state/regional part.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
We can all think of the 14 year olds who looked super skilled and who were in great training situations. Pynadath. Taitague. Alex Mendes. Xuxuh Hilton. Most of those play somewhere. Some had bad luck with injuries or whatever. But none of them got close to being a factor to make the senior national team.
I guess Lederman actually has gotten a senior call-up for Poland (but was not capped). I almost included him on the list.
B Maverick
Footballguy
I made it to the state tryout level held in the middle of CA (I grew up in SD) and had 20+ fields of games going on. And no one knew anyone so unless you were the highly flashy, you never got noticed. I could make the right run all day but if no one served....
It was such a worthless way to rank and find anyone.
Although I did see a young teen girl put a dent in a Lexus' windshield from a good 60 yards out. Probably the most impressive thing I saw there.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Andrew Carleton and Uly Llanez are others of this ilk.
I am not even sure Uly is in the sport any more at just 24, when he scored for the USMNT at 18 years old. Just bonkers when it is not injury related. Some players development curve just stops.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
At least Carleton got some solid minutes on January 6th.
El Floppo
Footballguy
And on the flip side is a guy like Peter Woodring, who I played club and district team
ball with for 5 years through high school. He couldn't sniff the state team in that time, let alone regional or national. Had 4 great college years, went to Europe, ended up playing bundie-ball for Hamburg amongst other teams.. got a few caps too, before playing early MLS.
encaitar
Footballguy
It's a numbers game IMO. There are similar stories for every other sport in the US about highly talented guys that didn't work out for whatever reason. Marcus Dupree is the first name I think(thanks to the ESPN stuff on him). Lenny Cooke was at one time as highly touted in high school as LeBron James. I don't think he ever played a game of NBA basketball(he did make summer leagues I believe).
The difference in those sports and soccer in the US? There are dozens of guys every year that are just as talented and losing out on them doesn't hurt the sport. For the USMNT? Gio was the most talented 18 year old we've ever seen in our program. Him being a bust? Kills us. If Albert and Sullivan are busts 6 years from now? We don't have a dozen other guys on their level to replace that. The top soccer nations do. If one of their highly talented players bust it hurts, but they move on to the next wonderkid. We don't have "the next wonderkid" if ours fails. The hope is that this is changing. I have yet to really see the change IMO.
The difference in those sports and soccer in the US? There are dozens of guys every year that are just as talented and losing out on them doesn't hurt the sport. For the USMNT? Gio was the most talented 18 year old we've ever seen in our program. Him being a bust? Kills us. If Albert and Sullivan are busts 6 years from now? We don't have a dozen other guys on their level to replace that. The top soccer nations do. If one of their highly talented players bust it hurts, but they move on to the next wonderkid. We don't have "the next wonderkid" if ours fails. The hope is that this is changing. I have yet to really see the change IMO.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
the gaps are also too great (which goes hand in hand with what you are saying).
Reyna (daddy), to Landon, to Pulisic, to Gio to Cavan/Mathis
There is too big a gap in years between our highest potential players. We got a bit lucky to find Dempsey who was a bit of a diamond in the rough as he was a relative unknown until the U20's.
We need a Pulisic/Gio level potential in 2+ players every year before we can get over the bust issues.
We have been papering the problem with dual nats but will that well run dry some day? Who knows.......
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I was kind of surprised how weak Saudi looked. With out paying attention to them before the tournament to much I kind of assumed they would be better than the US B team. But they looked like any generic Concacaf team.
When I looked them up I saw they are in a dog fight to qualify for the WC even with the expanded WC slots for Asia.
When I looked them up I saw they are in a dog fight to qualify for the WC even with the expanded WC slots for Asia.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Oh....the ultimate scam of a money grab. You kid was selected to represent the US in Italy. Ante up $2500 if he would like to accept representing his country . Nothing worse than sitting in Tuscaloosa in July watching midday soccer games. Heck, you even had to pay to tryout at the state level.
encaitar
Footballguy
Pretty much every US youth sport has become this now. Pay to play at almost every level, and how do you say no when your kid is so excited? Try having a kid play hockey.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Try tennis.Pretty much every US youth sport has become this now. Pay to play at almost every level, and how do you say no when your kid is so excited? Try having a kid play hockey.
In NYC shelling out $$ just to get on a court... No coaching or classes- just to use a court for an hour. (Id imagine ice time is similar) Then classes and private lessons are ridiculous. At least with soccer is just spend an hour when I got home juggling and doing those Kruyff moves over and over again in our driveway.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Pretty much every US youth sport has become this now. Pay to play at almost every level, and how do you say no when your kid is so excited? Try having a kid play hockey.
You are both correct from the cost standpoint.Try tennis.Pretty much every US youth sport has become this now. Pay to play at almost every level, and how do you say no when your kid is so excited? Try having a kid play hockey.
In NYC shelling out $$ just to get on a court... No coaching or classes- just to use a court for an hour. (Id imagine ice time is similar) Then classes and private lessons are ridiculous. At least with soccer is just spend an hour when I got home juggling and doing those Kruyff moves over and over again in our driveway.
ODP was the developed because coaches saw how successful college coaches were at scamming kids to come to and pay for their recruiting camps. Not even sure what Olympic had to do with anything. But man they were good at getting several hundred kids to show up with a $50 check to try out. Of course they needed a second tryout and another $50 check.
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