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What to expect from Vereen when he returns (1 Viewer)

Okay for the sake of discussion, let's assume Vereen is/was being groomed for the Woodhead role. Giving him 100% of Woodhead's production AND 100% of his own production seems more than a little optimistic, no?

If he's *just* the new Woodhead, and can match Woodhead's production, then we're still talking about a RB3. In 3 seasons with the Patriots, Woodhead finished RB28, RB55, and RB25.

 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao:

Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1 ... Bolden was limited that week, listed as questionable.

Ridley had 9 touches, fumbling on his 9th, and didn't see another carry.
:lmao:

Let him go.... he's rolling.

 
We're really dissecting game logs now? Does anyone really question that Vereen's career high in carries, targets and receptions had a little something to do with Ridley's fumbles?

 
This was posted on the Pats website in July, two months before Ridley got benched for fumbling.

The Patriots have had quite a run of third-down backs since Bill Belichick ditched the Jets to take over in New England. Kevin Faulk, who joined the team as a third-round pick way back in 1999 when the team was still wearing royal blue uniforms and Pete Carroll was roaming the sidelines, was passed down to Belichick.

Faulk carved out a steady role with the team, only twice racking up more than 200 touches (2000 and 2003) and just four times piling up more than 100 touches (2000, 2003, 2007, 2008). He only racked up 1,000-plus yards twice (2000 and 2003) and mostly kept a balance between balls he caught and carried. After Faulk lost a step, Danny Woodhead fell into the Patriots’ lap after being cut by the Jets. He took over what Faulk started in 2007 and 2008 by racking up 342 touches over three seasons with 92 catches and 250 carries (the role of a running back as a pass catcher started to diminish as the Patriots began using more two tight end sets).

Now, Shane Vereen is set to take over the Faulk role. And if the original Faulk was version 1.0, Woodhead was 1.5 and Vereen is set to become 2.0. And that’s not just because Vereen is taller than his predecessors, though it certainly helps. Woodhead and Faulk were both listed at 5-foot-7 and 5/8 coming out of Chadron State and LSU, respectively. Vereen is more than two inches taller at 5-foot-10 and 1/4. He shares Woodhead and Faulk’s speed and wiggle out of the backfield, but he also offers more as a receiver. That wasn’t made more evident than in the Patriots’ divisional playoff game against the Texans when Vereen beat Barrett Ruud 33 yards down the sideline for a touchdown. NFL Films captured the moment perfectly.

After the play, Tom Brady heads over to running backs coach Ivan Fears and says, ”All week we go, ‘Patience, patience.’ There was no patience. He just ran!” Vereen explained himself the best he could, “I was too excited.” Brady wasn’t criticizing the second-year player, though, saying, “I don’t care. That was sweet.” That’s a classic exchange between two teammates after a big play, but it also shows that Josh McDaniels trusts Vereen to be running option routes split out wide at receiver. Vereen saw he had an eight-year veteran, who only ran a 4.75-second 40-yard dash before his rookie season, covering him. He knew he could beat him deep, so he went for it. Expect more of that in 2013.

In 2012, Woodhead was targeted 51 times to Vereen’s 19. Out of those targets, Woodhead ran 12 “receiver routes,” as categorized by Pro Football Focus, to Vereen’s six. Woodhead caught seven of those targets on receiver routes for 57 yards with 32 yards coming after the catch. Vereen caught four passes on his receiver routes for 80 yards and a touchdown with 49 yards after catch. In total, Vereen caught 15 of 19 passes thrown his way for 254 yards and three touchdowns. He had 207 yards after catch and just one drop.

Vereen may not offer the same kind of versatility as Aaron Hernandez, but he could be the prime beneficiary of the released tight end’s playing time. Belichick preaches putting the best 11 players on the field. That could mean seeing Stevan Ridley and Vereen play at the same time. Like having Hernandez on the field, Ridley and Vereen sharing the gridiron could cause headaches for opposing defensive coordinators. Vereen proved it isn’t wise to throw a linebacker on him against the Texans, but sticking an extra defensive back on the field may mean the Patriots will be running wild with either rushing option. With fewer two-wide receiver sets comes more targets for running backs in general. So, while Vereen had 62 carries to eight receptions in the regular season and Woodhead had 76 carries to 40 catches, expect Vereen’s carries-to-catches ratio to even out more like Faulk’s used to before Gronkowski and Hernandez came along.

Vereen will take on the role of the third-down back, but he’ll also be on the field as a second or third wideout and as a second running back. Even before the Hernandez situation unfolded, Vereen was expected to have a breakout role in 2013, taking over Woodhead’s role. But with another spot on the offense opened up, Vereen could have as much of an impact on the offense as Ridley or Danny Amendola.
 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao:

Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
:loco:

WTF are you even talking about??? Vereen's first of 7 catches came in the middle of the 1st Q.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330908002

At the end of that quarter, Ridley carried on 3 out of 4 plays.... evidently from the bench.

:mellow:
Up until that 9th carry, the fumble, Vereen was steadily involved. He was targeted four times in the passing game, catching two passes for 14 (1st down) and 9 yards (third down) and carrying one time for 7 yards. That's about 5 fantasy points in PPR through 1.5 quarters, on pace for 12-13 fantasy points. Toss in the chance big-play TDs, which he came through on, and any logical fantasy player can see why he had high RB2 projections IN THE PRESEASON by many.

 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao: Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
:loco:

WTF are you even talking about??? Vereen's first of 7 catches came in the middle of the 1st Q.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330908002

At the end of that quarter, Ridley carried on 3 out of 4 plays.... evidently from the bench.

:mellow:
At the time Ridley fumbled his way to the bench in the second quarter of week 1, Vereen had 1 carry and 2 receptions. Not sure what it is you're disagreeing with here.
 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao: Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
:loco:

WTF are you even talking about??? Vereen's first of 7 catches came in the middle of the 1st Q.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330908002

At the end of that quarter, Ridley carried on 3 out of 4 plays.... evidently from the bench.

:mellow:
At the time Ridley fumbled his way to the bench in the second quarter of week 1, Vereen had 1 carry and 2 receptions. Not sure what it is you're disagreeing with here.
I'm disputing the silly notion that Vereen "blew up" only because Ridley was benched. He would have been heavily involved regardless.

 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao: Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
:loco:

WTF are you even talking about??? Vereen's first of 7 catches came in the middle of the 1st Q.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330908002

At the end of that quarter, Ridley carried on 3 out of 4 plays.... evidently from the bench.

:mellow:
At the time Ridley fumbled his way to the bench in the second quarter of week 1, Vereen had 1 carry and 2 receptions. Not sure what it is you're disagreeing with here.
....So he was on pace for around 6 catches and 75 yards. And 4-6 carries for 30-40 yards even if Ridley stayed in the game. Looks like the 12 touch ballpark floor I was talking about — against a Bills D that ranks 7th in points allowed to opposing running backs.

And the fumbles are more common for Ridley than Vereen. Ridley's fumbled once every 73 touches, while Vereen has fumbled once on 106 touches.

So it's logical Vereen, if effective, puts a little dent into Ridley's workload. I mean, both average 4.5 yards/attempt on career. Yeah, Vereen's a smaller sample size. Either way, they're both talented backs that should see enough work to be weekly difference makers in fantasy. NE might begin to run more no-huddle offense as well as the newbies have gotten comfortable with Brady and vice versa.

In 2012, the Patriots led the league in percentage of no-huddle plays, running the ball on 50.85 percent of those plays. Woodhead took 27.5 percent of the running plays from the no-huddle. New England's had a bye week to get Vereen involved in practice and get everyone even more comfortable with more no-huddle.

 
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I like Vereen as an RB2 on his return, borderline RB1 in PPR leagues. I don't own him anywhere but I wish I did. The Patriots need playmakers. More than they did last year when Woodhead was the passing down back, and waaaaay more than they did in the Kevin Faulk days.

The whole "this guy is going to slot into that role" thinking is why people drafted Zach Sudfeld. How'd that work out? Good coaches fit the scheme to the players. Vereen has talent compared to the current pats skill guys and will get 12-15 touches, half of them receptions. What Woodhead is now doing in SD is the kind of value I see, not what other NE backs have had in the past.

 
Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.

ETA: the last play may have been even more impressive. And check out all the goal-line carries. :popcorn:

 
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Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.

ETA: the last play may have been even more impressive. And check out all the goal-line carries. :popcorn:
ya, He's got a little more high-end speed than Woodhead lol.

 
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Okay for the sake of discussion, let's assume Vereen is/was being groomed for the Woodhead role. Giving him 100% of Woodhead's production AND 100% of his own production seems more than a little optimistic, no?

If he's *just* the new Woodhead, and can match Woodhead's production, then we're still talking about a RB3. In 3 seasons with the Patriots, Woodhead finished RB28, RB55, and RB25.
It's more like the Woodhead role plus part of what Hernandez did. I think they were counting heavily on using Vereen as a X Factor type player much like they used Hernandez last year.

The real question is how big of an impact will he make right away and will he even play this week. The Pats of course are pretty quiet about it right now but with the Pats you expect no less. I personally think this is a watch and see week as to what his role will be out of the gate. Remember it is a tough matchup as well.

 
I personally think this is a watch and see week as to what his role will be out of the gate. Remember it is a tough matchup as well.
Agreed. I'm assuming most of us are in a position where we aren't counting on him this week. We've waited this long... one more week won't kill you. I'm actually glad they are playing a monster defense. I won't be tempted to start him, and we'll start to get clues about how they want to utilize him.

.

.

.

 
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In the interesting situation where I get to choose between Vereen, Harvin and a bunch of scrubs.

Heavily leaning Vereen.

 
After losing Martin, Mcfadden(although that was expected), and then James I just need him to be serviceable. I will take 7-12 points in any game (standard) and be very happy.

 
In the interesting situation where I get to choose between Vereen, Harvin and a bunch of scrubs.

Heavily leaning Vereen.
I wouldn't even consider Harvin over him considering the lack of playing time and the type of injury Harvin's coming off of.

I'm debating between K. Allen and Vereen in my flex...have Allen in there for now but it's very close for me....I think the prime time game might tip the scale for me...always like to watch my players in prime time if it's a coin flip...

 
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Everyone seems to assume that he'll be activated this week, but as of now he's still officially on IR. Does anyone know when they usually make the decision to move someone back on the active roster?

 
How about we use the only relevant data we have from THIS season... the way the team is currently constructed.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002

Vereen blows up. Bolden is a healthy scratch.

That's all you need to know. :shrug:
:lmao:

Bolden was out with a knee injury, and Vereen blew up after Ridley was benched for fumbling (had only 3 touches prior), but otherwise solid analysis.
:loco:

WTF are you even talking about??? Vereen's first of 7 catches came in the middle of the 1st Q.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330908002

At the end of that quarter, Ridley carried on 3 out of 4 plays.... evidently from the bench.

:mellow:
Up until that 9th carry, the fumble, Vereen was steadily involved. He was targeted four times in the passing game, catching two passes for 14 (1st down) and 9 yards (third down) and carrying one time for 7 yards. That's about 5 fantasy points in PPR through 1.5 quarters, on pace for 12-13 fantasy points. Toss in the chance big-play TDs, which he came through on, and any logical fantasy player can see why he had high RB2 projections IN THE PRESEASON by many.
I would think any logical fantasy player could realize that I've never disputed any of this. All I'm pointing out is the fact that the vast majority of his "blow up" from week 1 happened after the starting RB was benched. Up until that point the split was a 3:1 ratio in favor of Ridley. We have no way of knowing what would have happened if that didn't occur, we have no way of knowing what the split would have been in weeks 2-now if Vereen hadn't gotten hurt, and we have no way of knowing what the split is going to look like going forward. Just like it doesn't make sense to put a ton of emphasis on the splits from last season to try and predict things now, it also doesn't make sense to say "all you need to know is that Vereen blew up week 1 and Bolden was a healthy scratch" (when that's completely false to begin with).

I own Vereen, love his value as a solid floor RB with big upside if there is an injury/benching, but you need to know more than just what the stats were from week 1.

 
Everyone seems to assume that he'll be activated this week, but as of now he's still officially on IR. Does anyone know when they usually make the decision to move someone back on the active roster?
This is a good question.

Don't they have to do it at a certain time this week in order for him to play this weekend? Or can they Belliechek it all the way to gametime?

 
Everyone seems to assume that he'll be activated this week, but as of now he's still officially on IR. Does anyone know when they usually make the decision to move someone back on the active roster?
This is a good question.

Don't they have to do it at a certain time this week in order for him to play this weekend? Or can they Belliechek it all the way to gametime?
I posted this earlier. The Giants activated Brown on Thursday of last week. I do not know if that is the deadline to do so or not. I would imagine if Belicheck can keep that information "secret" until gametime, he will do so.

 
The Ravens activated an LB Saturday afternoon with a game on Sunday a few weeks ago. Was said the deadline for them to do it was Sat 4pm. Not sure if that stands when it's a Monday night game, but it might. Look for them to do it or not by Saturday.

 
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The Ravens activated an LB Saturday afternoon with a game on Sunday a few weeks ago. Was said the deadline for them to do it was Sat 4pm. Not sure if that stands when it's a Monday night game, but it might. Look for them to do it or not by Saturday.
That was Jameel McClain (who was on the PUP list). He was activated on 10/19 to practice, and played against Pitt the next day. It's a unique situation, b/c NFL teams can return a player to practice off the PUP list, then take 21 more days before they activate him to their 53-man roster, at which point they can go week-to-week about activating him for their game day active roster. Baltimore took all 3 steps in a 24 hour period. I can't find anything about 4pm on Saturday being the deadline (I'm not saying it isn't, I just can't find anything to confirm/refute that), nor can I find anything that indicates whether there is a different deadline for MNF.

 
They should be activating him soon. Saw this earlier today:

‏@ESPNFantasy 23m

Shane Vereen is back at practice and available in 29% of ESPN leagues.
He's been practicing since before their bye. He was eligible to return to practice then. Everything I can find says a player is ELIGIBLE to return to game-day active status after 8 weeks on IR-DTR, but nothing specifies if he can be left on IR-DTR for longer. So the fact that he is practicing doesn't really give any insight about when he will be activated.

 
I think he is the most explosive RB on the team, providing big play, homerun ability as a runner and a receiver. That said, its probably unrealistic to expect numbers close to week 1. I think an expectation of 12-15 carries and 4 receptions for 90+ total yards is not out of the realm of possibility.
Fewer carries than12-15 but maybe more than 4 receptions. Also, 20+ yards per catch is too high for a prediction but he does have big play potential.
I wasn't predicting 90 receiving yards; rather total yards. Hence "total yards."

 
Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.

ETA: the last play may have been even more impressive. And check out all the goal-line carries. :popcorn:
I actually didn't realize he was used at the goal line so much..I'm excited.

 
The main focus on this thread should be the fact that vereen will get woodheads carries, (this is entirely different team) i think it was stated back in an earlier post 800 yards and 8 tds. That is what i expect going forward for vereen at the minimum. Factor in the loss of hernandez and welker and hes gonna be a beast! Looks pretty simple to see that imo. :cool:

Last years info cannot be looked at whatsoever because of the loss of hernandez and woodhead. Furthermore, last years info helps only to show vereen will get his and then there is the fact he has fresh legs. Im starting him over Steven Jackson this week with confidence, as long as he is activated.

 
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The main focus on this thread should be the fact that vereen will get woodheads carries, (this is entirely different team) i think it was stated back in an earlier post 800 yards and 8 tds. That is what i expect going forward for vereen at the minimum. Factor in the loss of hernandez and welker and hes gonna be a beast! Looks pretty simple to see that imo. :cool:

Last years info cannot be looked at whatsoever because of the loss of hernandez and woodhead. Furthermore, last years info helps only to show vereen will get his and then there is the fact he has fresh legs. Im starting him over Steven Jackson this week with confidence, as long as he is activated.
Starting Vereen this week pending activation over Lamar Miller w/Stacy's bye. :hifive:

 
If there's no deadline for the activation of a player on IR then I don't think a lot of us will be playing him this week since the game is money

 
NE RBs report card from the Boston Globe.

RUNNING BACK: A-minus

None of the four running backs (including Vereen) is on course to make it to Hawaii this year. And they have only two individual 100-yard games so far Vereen with 101 yards in Week 1 against the Bills, and Stevan Ridley with 115 against the Steelers.

But as a group, the running backs have been the backbone of the team, and the running backs are having excellent individual seasons despite their opportunities getting split. The Patriots are 10th in rushing yards per game (129) and have cracked 130 as a team in six of nine games.

Ridley has 514 yards and six touchdowns in eight games, and is averaging a healthy 4.4 yards per carry as the primary rusher. He officially has only two fumbles (a third against Buffalo was overturned), but ball protection is still an issue, as his fumble against Pittsburgh demonstrated.

LeGarrette Blount has 312 yards and two touchdowns on 4.5 yards per carry and has been a sledgehammer in the fourth quarter. Brandon Bolden has filled in admirably for Vereen as the third-down back, providing solid pass protection. Fullback James Develin is holding his own as a lead blocker and special teams contributor.
 
jdoggydogg said:
Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.
Man he is fast.
Kind of drooling over here. I made it to 7-3 without having him for 9 weeks, now if he's going to go nuts again like that headed into fantasy playoffs... :moneybag:

 
jdoggydogg said:
Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.
Man he is fast.
Kind of drooling over here. I made it to 7-3 without having him for 9 weeks, now if he's going to go nuts again like that headed into fantasy playoffs... :moneybag:
Same here. I've had a rough year and could use Vereen almost immediately.

 
I'll preface this by saying, again, I own him and certainly think he's talented.

However, he really isn't exceptionally fast or explosive, and people seriously believe "not many" RBs would have made that play that some are drooling over? Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking by owners to me.

 
There are definitely a few. Charles and CJ too. But the list isn't very long. Just effortlessly catching the ball without breaking stride is harder than it looks.

 
Here's a nice 2012 highlight package.

All of it is good, but to see why some of us are drooling, check out the play at the 1:09 mark.

83 yards, untouched out of the backfield. Not many "running backs" are going to make that play. He's got special ability.

ETA: the last play may have been even more impressive. And check out all the goal-line carries. :popcorn:
I tell you one guy I know I've seen actually do that play - Darren Sproles.

Here's another, and I remember the game, the NFCC vs the Bears - Reggie Bush (young out of USC Reggie).

The last play also reminds me of Sproles.

I will also add that BB and Brady are also two of the few, a coach who will call that play and a QB who can make the pass.

 
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There's obviously no way of saying for sure, but I'd argue Charles, Chris Johnson, Reggie, McCoy, AP, Forte, Spiller, Murray, PT Cruiser, Sproles, Woodhead, Bernard, McFadden, Ellington, Martin, Donald Brown, Lamar Miller, Daryl Richardson, DWill, Tate, a healthy Foster/Rice/D. Wilson, and a bunch of less obvious guys like Helu, Starks, J. Bell, Quizz, Mathews, FJax, Stewart, Barner, Moreno, K. Davis, etc. would all have a good chance to make that play.

 
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