Man In The Box
Footballguy
This is true, unfortunately. I think the last time a player won the MVP on a non-playoff team was way back in the early 1970’s.
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QB Russell Wilson, PIT (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Moonshine
Footballguy
The Seahawks also don't have the Eagles OL. LAR may just match up better with the Seahawks, which is why they held Wilson to his second worst performance of the season earlier this year. Looking at recent opponents might not be the best metric.
Or, the Seahawks hadn't quite gelled and the Rams were firing on all cylinders when they met up earlier in the season. Now the Seahawks are hot, so looking at the first time they played may not be a wise comparison.
Hard to really say either way, but my suspicion is Wilson will be closer to his floor than his ceiling this week. I'll start him, but am tempering expectations. I'll be more than happy to eat crow if I'm wrong.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
They are hot on offense, which is what is relevant to the prospects of starting Wilson this week. Using one of my typical scoring leagues as a data source, in the 5-2 start, Wilson averaged 26.7 ppg; in the 3-3 stretch since then, he is averaging 30 ppg.
After starting 5-2 start, the Seahawks are 3-3 since. That is hot?
Moonshine
Footballguy
After starting 5-2 start, the Seahawks are 3-3 since. That is hot?
JWB picked up my intention. I could have phrased it better, but for fantasy purposes their offense has been on a tear recently, especially Wilson.
The General
Footballguy
The Seattle defense has just fallen apart, they will be giving up points. Seattle has no RB's and Wilson runs well, has decent WR's and TE to throw to. It's the perfect storm for QB points.
IN the same boat...when AR went down I went out and made a deal for RW and I think you have to continue to roll with him, although you have to think AR wants to throw the ball all over the yard, and show the NFL just what it was missing. Goff should be slinging the ball around this weekend too so I have to think RW might be just doing the same.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
The Rams should be able to do things on offense. If Wagner and/or Wright are out on top of the other injuries then why not. I wouldn't be super happy starting him because it's still crazy in that stadium but this defense is definitely much lesser version of previous ones Goff has faced.
dnurk
Footballguy
Welp, we Wilson owners had to know it wasn’t sustainable all year but it sure did come at a bad time. LAR line just schemed him perfectly yesterday and destroyed him. They’re going to need to figure something out with this OL before next year. No QB can take the punishment he has had this year and survive it.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Now what? Wilson ranked in the top 3 this week on most boards. Do you trust him and / or SEA to rebound @ a fired up Cowboy team and ZEKE sustaining drives and running the clock?
Dallas more forgiving than the LAR. Expect better results vs. last week.
Also getting a couple LBs back. My biggest fear with Dallas is their potential for time of possession and clock killing. Getting some defensive reinforcements back will help.
All that said, I keep tinkering with the thought of benching for Foles. In the end, I think Wilson stays in my lineup. There's just too much potential there for him to win you a championship all by himself.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Yeah, my thoughts exactly about clock killing drives, but it could also be a shootout and quick scores too?
Who else would you start if you had anybody to choose from? Superman, Brady, Keenum, Foles, Brees, Stafford, Dak, Big Ben... See what I mean? Given a choice of 32 QB's to start this week who would you pick?
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Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
A frustrated Wilson owner from last week just dropped him to go with Brees. We had Wentz, now Big Ben, and looking at picking up Wilson. Crazy.
Gotta go Wilson, right? Gotta believe in a bounce back and knowing LAR D is that good, and DAL is only average. Only concern is DAL running the clock with Zeke. Yet, one never can predict game flow and game script.
Gotta go Wilson, right? Gotta believe in a bounce back and knowing LAR D is that good, and DAL is only average. Only concern is DAL running the clock with Zeke. Yet, one never can predict game flow and game script.
Moonshine
Footballguy
Gotta go with Wilson.
La'el Collins and Tyron Smith are questionable (Collins more likely to play, Smith less likely to play), and even if they both play the OL will be at far less than 100%. Even with Zeke back, the ground game won't be quite as dominant as expected, especially with Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright back for Seattle. TOP should be pretty even, so I don't have too many worries about Dallas being able to grind out the clock and keeping Wilson off the field.
tkrull
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Deciding between Big Ben and Wilson. Talked with several SEA homers last night and they think the team is imploding in several areas. All I really care about is how will Wilson perform fantasy wise? Loosing Antonio Brown makes me lean Wilson > Big Ben.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m so off of this bandwagon that it sickens me to have ever been on it.
Dud at home against a division rival? Unacceptable. Total choke job down the stretch for the whole team.
serves me right for putting my faith in any Seahawks.
Dud at home against a division rival? Unacceptable. Total choke job down the stretch for the whole team.
serves me right for putting my faith in any Seahawks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree that Seattle quit and is imploding.
Sure, Ben lost AB. Ok, he’s still got two fantastic receivers in MBryant & JuJu, and he’s got a RB who can take it to the house on any given screen.
Plus unlike Seattle Roethlisburger has
1. An OL that gives him time to make more than 1/2 a read before pressure &
2. An excellent run game to keep the defense off balance.
The former is important, but the latter is key to success on offense.
Seahawks can’t protect Wilson, and they have no running game to speak of. Defenses have been spying Wilson to limit the damage with his legs, including chasing him down on the roll-outs. IMO that’s the single biggest factor in the abuse they took from the Rams - all Wilson had left was the roll-out and they took that away. If Dallas didn’t go to school on that, they don’t belong in the NFL.
BR is also facing the worst pass defense in the NFL in a game the Steelers need to win. To me that more than compensates for BR’s road splits.
I would suggest you’re overthinking this one. Personally I’d make Roethlisburger my pony and it would be a quick decision.
but that’s all just like, my opinions, maaaaaaan.
dnurk
Footballguy
Wilson is the #1 scoring QB in our league by a decent amount. He’s had 2 down weeks and both were vs LAR. Yes teams know he is the only offensive weapon..they’ve known that all year. He simply is a nightmare to defend and is 90 percent of their offense. I’ll take that risk knowing he can easily put up big points in a heartbeat. Starting him with confidence.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
There’s a big difference between box score watching & on-field performance.
Wilson didn’t just have a bad game - he had an historically bad game at home.
and his team appears to have quit on him.
I wish you good luck. I have a hard time seeing him as a top option. I put my faith into him last week & posted many of the same things you just did. And I got bounced from the playoffs as a result, so I’m a bit jaded.
by the way - he was god-awful against the Jags too - he only salvaged his day when the Jags had the game well in hand and let off the gas.
At least weather isn’t a concern. The cowboys pass rush should be though.
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Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Nice analysis. And I may just keep Big Ben plugged in... I sense they are juiced up and ticked off from the bitter loss to NE. Yes, they have Bell and the two very capable WR 2/3 and perhaps Jesse James will get a redemption score. Big Ben is in now, and I'll be looking at Wilson this morning trying to get a feel. You're correct - SEA is imploding on sooo many fronts and Russell can only do so much.I agree that Seattle quit and is imploding.
Sure, Ben lost AB. Ok, he’s still got two fantastic receivers in MBryant & JuJu, and he’s got a RB who can take it to the house on any given screen.
Plus unlike Seattle Roethlisburger has
1. An OL that gives him time to make more than 1/2 a read before pressure &
2. An excellent run game to keep the defense off balance.
The former is important, but the latter is key to success on offense.
Seahawks can’t protect Wilson, and they have no running game to speak of. Defenses have been spying Wilson to limit the damage with his legs, including chasing him down on the roll-outs. IMO that’s the single biggest factor in the abuse they took from the Rams - all Wilson had left was the roll-out and they took that away. If Dallas didn’t go to school on that, they don’t belong in the NFL.
BR is also facing the worst pass defense in the NFL in a game the Steelers need to win. To me that more than compensates for BR’s road splits.
I would suggest you’re overthinking this one. Personally I’d make Roethlisburger my pony and it would be a quick decision.
but that’s all just like, my opinions, maaaaaaan.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s the crux of it.
i am not a Wilson hater (though definitely bitter) - dude earned my respect long ago, and certainly this season.
But that team’s about out of the bubble gum & spit that was holding it together.
And since you’ve got a very good option in Big Ben against a bad pass D, it makes it a much easier decision.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
When I analyze all the potential stats the rushing yards give Wilson a slight edge and a chance for a rush TD, however, ZEKE could very well perform similar to Gurley and DE's could very easily t off on Wilson for 5-6 sacks too! Like you said, teams key on this roll out and escapability to make that ad libbed last moment throw, almost "desperation like" that has worked some. With Big Ben we kinda know what we're gonna get and the being on the road concept balances itself out because they must win and they will. Plus, the pass D really sucks in HOU now. I'd like to see 300 yards and 3 scores out of Ben. I'm not asking too much, am I?
I see many have Wilson plugged in being the #1 QB in fantasy up to last week, but now is now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s my feeling too - perfect example of past performance not being a guarantee of future success.
Watching Wilson against JAX then LAR, it’s looking more like a trend.
And even in some (many) of his big scoring games, he struggled mightily, then it took a Herculurian effort from wilson to stage a comeback. Mostly in the 2nd half.
if that effort isn’t there, or if it’s too difficult a hill to overcome, he’s toast & so are his fantasy owners.
i just feel like his comeback schtick’s getting old & defenses are getting hip to it.
Points are great - and yeah, he was the #1 QB. Wentz was good all year too but I don’t see anyone rolling him out this week.
Maybe i’m off base, but like I said - you’ve got a great alternative so why take the risk?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lmao - he was terrible. If not for 2 gift turnovers by the Cowboys in their own red zone, Wilson has a sub 100 yard, 0 TD game.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Your reference above wasn’t about Wilson, it was about his team “quitting” on him.
Perhaps I misunderstood. Who specifically did this quitting?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
In Seattle it was the Seahawks quitting on themselves and Wilson against the Rams.
and nothing, not one thing has changed about that.
Last week, the Seahawks got rolled at home. How does the game against the Cowboys have anything to to with my quote about their truly gutless choke job last week?
Hooper31
Footballguy
You suggested that his team quitting on him was justification to bench him moving forward. That didn’t happen. If anything his team stood up and showed why you shouldn’t question the heart of a champion.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It was.
he sucked.
2 TDs, sure - gift ones. He was 3-and-out all game.
did you watch the game? He was a 18 point QB who should have been a 6 point QB.
and in context I said he should be benched if you have better options - specifically Roethlisberger.
And I’m 99.999% sure Big Ben will have a much better performance.
i stand firmly that Wilson was not a great start this week. And he proved that by not being a great QB in fantasy this week.
Garapalo & Bortles were both better.
So yeah - question the heart of a champion because the Seahawks only won because the Cowboys sucked more this week.
Seattle is garbage right now.
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Hooper31
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off even when there is no pressure. Route running is useless on that team. You can't finish the route before he has turned his back on the D and started spinning around like a top. Jimmy is useless in this backyard football. Only quick little WR have any value. Keep Wilson contained is the book on him right now until he starts playing QB again.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed. They didn’t address the OL in The off-season. They scrapped together some guys & then when the mediocre guys got hurt they’re just bubble gum & spit.
a good friend of mine up in Seattle has been apoplectic about the lack of pass protection & run game for 2 ears. Eddie Lacy is a disaster of a signing, and Wilson spends his games running for fear life.
I think Russell Wilson is a much better QB than he looks, but he’ll never be as good as he could be until the team protects him.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
There is no other QB in the league that can do what he does and not gotten killed.
Very few QBs I’d trade him for, probably none with the way the OL has been the last couple of years.
Hooper31
Footballguy
I disagree with you here too, but only in the sense that he’s a better “typical” quarterback than he looks.
To be clear, I’m not one to defend Wilson. I was defending the team. They certainly didn’t quit last week.
Wilson is far from a prototypical quarterback. The knowledgeable writers that cover him weekly are starting to comment more and more. He misses obvious throws far too often and creates his own sacks when his tackles do their job well. Wilson has some major flaws in his game that are showing up more often. I don’t disagree that he’s a unique talent making it tough to judge his performances compared to others. Overall I’m glad he our QB in Seattle, but he’s far from perfect.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Weird. I distinctly remember having a discussion with you following last season where I said that Wilson has been on a down slide ever since his fantastic rookie season. You disagreed and said he was one of the up and coming/top QBs in the league. I referenced 2016 as his worst statistical performance of his young career. You defended him again referencing most of those INTs came from one game (you wanted to do one of those, "take away that one game" moves).
Maybe I'm thinking of someone else with the name Hooper.
regardless, Wilson is a conundrum and he makes up for his lacking from a physical/size standpoint with his smarts and athleticism. Which one of those tends to be less effective with age and with defenses figuring you out. I just think some people can plan better for him than others. Seems like a captain obvious statement, but Wilson isn't one of those QBs who can beat you even if you throw everything you have at him (Brady, Peyton Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc)
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