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QB Jameis Winston, NO


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1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

All their skill position guys, other than DeSean, are either on their rookie deals or signed to extensions. 

Right but when they come due, they will either lose them or franchise one. I'm talking Mike Evans, the OL, the TEs', Godwin, etc. Evans is gonna want to be paid and he perpetually bails out Winston. Although there was no one to bail out Winston on the throw that went right to the Bears defender yesterday.

See Seattle and the cast of bums that Wilson is working with. Once you pay the QB big $, you can't afford to protect him, keep all your best receivers AND build a solid D. You build a D or score gobs of points. You cannot do both. You put it on the QB to be the one to take you to wins. Some can do it. Rodgers, Brees, etc. Some can't. Hell, Flacco parlayed a powerhouse D in to a serious theft of $. Look what happened to them. One playoff appearance since. Haven't done #### since. Castoffs at WR currently while trying to continue building a strong D because he's really not very good. They can compete because they are continually building their D to compete but they are not winning SBs, which is the goal. This team has no D. Once you pay Winston huge $, you won't be able to compete for top of the line FAs.

It's the way the NFL is. Build a strong O with franchise QB & score lots of points or build a strong D with a ham & egger QB and win low scoring games.

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4 minutes ago, lod001 said:

It's the way the NFL is. Build a strong O with franchise QB & score lots of points or build a strong D with a ham & egger QB and win low scoring games.

Clearly they're miles away from building a strong D.  Mike Evans is signed through 2023.  O.J. Howard and Godwin are in their second year.  Ronald Jones is a rookie.  Obviously you don't agree, but it appears they've already made their decision on the direction they want to go with the QB.

All of this could change at the end of the season though. 

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5 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Clearly they're miles away from building a strong D.  Mike Evans is signed through 2023.  O.J. Howard and Godwin are in their second year.  Ronald Jones is a rookie.  Obviously you don't agree, but it appears they've already made their decision on the direction they want to go with the QB.

All of this could change at the end of the season though. 

Oh, I know what's gonna happen. It's the Bucs. They will foolishly deliver a ton of $ to Winston, have no $ left since they are paying Evans big $ as well. Backload it as much as possible. It will be on Winston to win games like Rodgers does. He of course, will not be able to do so. We've already seen that for 3 years now. The more points you gotta put up, the more mistakes you will end up making and that guy is king of mistakes. He's Favre level mistake prone with 1/100th (generously) Favre level skills.

Evans will want a raise in 2021 as well.

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17 hours ago, lod001 said:

Oh, I know what's gonna happen. It's the Bucs.

You act like we, as Bucs’ fans, aren’t aware of the high level of stupidity it takes to miss the playoffs for 10+ years. 

I just watched this team give up 6 TD passes to a guy who threw all of 7 TDs in the entirety of the 2017 season.

I just watched this team single block the best pass rusher in the NFL on 80% of the snaps. 

There doesn’t even seem to be a plan for one game. I can’t imagine there’s one for the future of the franchise. 

They’re still employing a defensive coordinator whose archaic scheme has given up 400+ yards in 19 of his 36 games.

The GM trades UP to draft kickers in the second round.

The head coach suggests everyone be fired in his post game press conferences. 

The entire organization is a mess. Jameis Winston is the least of their problems. 

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6 minutes ago, Capella said:

Incredibly weird thing for a coach to say. He sounds like a dead man walking and they are 2-2. 

Reading between the lines I get the impression he wants to continue starting Fitzpatrick and the Glazers have suggested otherwise.  He certainly didn't go to bat for Jameis at all with that comment. 

Also defended Mike Smith in suggesting the coaches didn't miss tackles, blow coverages, have communication breakdowns, etc.  He's about to lose this team and they're 2-2.

In my opinion the season didn't truly start until this road game in Atlanta and he sounds like he's given up.

Edited by Grahamburn
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Everybody’s been talking about TB as Winston vs. Fitz but the real question is how can you get sustained QB fantasy success from this disaster of a coaching staff.

See podcast on this site, very representative of TB media right now: 

http://www.joebucsfan.com/

I don’t know what the answer to this question is yet.  We’ll find out when I start Winston after the bye, but coaching is the only real question here, biggest fantasy risk, and the potential limiting factor. 

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22 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Reading between the lines I get the impression he wants to continue starting Fitzpatrick and the Glazers have suggested otherwise.  He certainly didn't go to bat for Jameis at all with that comment. 

Also defended Mike Smith in suggesting the coaches didn't miss tackles, blow coverages, have communication breakdowns, etc.  He's about to lose this team and they're 2-2.

In my opinion the season didn't truly start until this road game in Atlanta and he sounds like he's given up.

That’s an interesting perspective about the Glazers. Stroud has been saying all summer that they love Jameis. Makes sense. 

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

That’s an interesting perspective about the Glazers. Stroud has been saying all summer that they love Jameis. Makes sense. 

If Jameis was "his guy," wouldn't you go out of your way to make sure you say that?  As far back as the Winston/Mariota draft Jameis has never been Koetter's guy.  Then their weird interactions on Hard Knocks and the struggles that followed.  Then this year Koetter, understandably, was glowing about Fitzpatrick after those first two games.  Now this. 

Seems like he's probably going to get fired and the Glazers will hire someone who wants to work with Winston.

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4 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

If Jameis was "his guy," wouldn't you go out of your way to make sure you say that?  As far back as the Winston/Mariota draft Jameis has never been Koetter's guy.  Then their weird interactions on Hard Knocks and the struggles that followed.  Then this year Koetter, understandably, was glowing about Fitzpatrick after those first two games.  Now this. 

Seems like he's probably going to get fired and the Glazers will hire someone who wants to work with Winston.

Dirk sucks but god I can’t believe we are going to churn through another coach. 

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10 minutes ago, Capella said:

Dirk sucks but god I can’t believe we are going to churn through another coach. 

Dirk's offense works, clearly.  He'll befall the same fate as Tony Dungy though if he's unwilling to fire his buddy on the other side of the ball.  It's not like that defense has anyone returning to it after the bye who is going to help.

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Just now, Grahamburn said:

Dirk's offense works, clearly.  He'll befall the same fate as Tony Dungy though if he's unwilling to fire his buddy on the other side of the ball.  It's not like that defense has anyone returning to it after the bye who is going to help.

Maybe if he crawls to 8-8 and fires Smith he hangs in there again. I love his offense but I don’t think he is suited to be a HC. 

That said, firing him and just bringing in another loser to fire 3 years from now isn’t appealing either. 

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

Maybe if he crawls to 8-8 and fires Smith he hangs in there again. I love his offense but I don’t think he is suited to be a HC. 

That said, firing him and just bringing in another loser to fire 3 years from now isn’t appealing either. 

Tall order if that defense can't figure something out.  It took 3 historic QB performances for the team to even be 2-2.  Good luck, Jameis. 

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12 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Don’t know if I can start him over Ben but he should have a big week even if he has 4 TO’s. 

It’s bw Jameis vs atl and dalton vs Pitt for me.  Both tasty matchups.  If Dalton’s weapons weren’t dropping like flies lately it would be Dalton as a slam dunk but the john Ross/eifert/gio/Kraft injuries are making me pause.  

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9 minutes ago, rickyg said:

It’s bw Jameis vs atl and dalton vs Pitt for me.  Both tasty matchups.  If Dalton’s weapons weren’t dropping like flies lately it would be Dalton as a slam dunk but the john Ross/eifert/gio/Kraft injuries are making me pause.  

Actually I just looked up dalton’s History vs Pitt.  Not good.  They own him.  The way tenn owns bortles.  To the bench he goes and stating either Winston or mayfield 

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Not that it matters too much I guess but is this guy better than Fitz at all? I don't watch many Bucs games so not trying to be wise here but I don't get the mania by the head coach to shove Fitz out at the earliest possible opportunity, when he hadn't done a great deal wrong and was a big part of a 2-2 start. To me, at least statistically, they seem very similar, not seeing much difference between them, lots of TD passes and lots of turnovers and mistakes and still losing games regardless. Maybe Winston is more mobile? I guess in the end, they're both fantasy gold at the position whomever starts.

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6 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

Not that it matters too much I guess but is this guy better than Fitz at all? I don't watch many Bucs games so not trying to be wise here but I don't get the mania by the head coach to shove Fitz out at the earliest possible opportunity, when he hadn't done a great deal wrong and was a big part of a 2-2 start. To me, at least statistically, they seem very similar, not seeing much difference between them, lots of TD passes and lots of turnovers and mistakes and still losing games regardless. Maybe Winston is more mobile? I guess in the end, they're both fantasy gold at the position whomever starts.

Winston was drafted #1 overall 3 years ago. He's their franchise QB.

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Interesting play call at the end there. Running the ball down the middle of the field and heaving a lateral seemed like an odd play call, at best. They were on the twenty-three or so. That's a place from which you can flood the end zone a bit with some protection. I hope Winston didn't call his own number on that.  

Edited by rockaction
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36 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Interesting play call at the end there. Running the ball down the middle of the field and heaving a lateral seemed like an odd play call, at best. They were on the twenty-three or so. That's a place from which you can flood the end zone a bit with some protection. I hope Winston didn't call his own number on that.  

He didn’t. Practiced play. 

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7 minutes ago, Capella said:

He didn’t. Practiced play. 

Oh wow. That's interesting. I loved the announcers saying you couldn't advance a fumble anyway. Uh, guys, you can't advance a forward fumble, not laterals. That actually could have worked, then, if it was practiced but it looked pretty bad.  

Winston himself looked good. He's on our waiver wire in one league for some reason and I never would have thought he would be there.  

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5 hours ago, Capella said:

Played well yesterday. 3-4 bad throws but pretty good for first full game. Wish the defense wasn’t maybe the worst all-time, we’d have something here. 

Smitty finally gets the axe.

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4 hours ago, LionOfGosforth said:

Not that it matters too much I guess but is this guy better than Fitz at all?

Nope. He's a loser. Had 2 picks and it should have been 4 but the ATL D is as bad as the TB D, including inability to catch balls thrown right at them, which Winston did once. I mean it was right at the defender. Hit him in the chest because he can't catch.

 

4 hours ago, Skoo said:

Winston was drafted #1 overall 3 years ago. He's their franchise QB.

Only if they make a major mistake and retain him. Franchise QB's do not carry around 18-27 W/L records while piling up more turnovers than TDs. David Carr was draft #1 and thought to be a franchise QB. So were Jamarcus Russell and Sam Bradford. When they stink, that means you just made a huge mistake. Fitz would have won this game.

Fantasywise, any TB QB is fantasy gold.

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I am tempering my expectations bigly for week 7.  Cle D is very good vs qb.  They forced Brees, rivers, into modest games.  Only an that did anything of significance to them  Was Derek Carr.  Go figure.  But the other 5 QBs they have faced this year either had mediocre fantasy days or bad ones.  I think I will stream mayfield over him for the week. 

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Who would you rather have Goff or Winston ROS?

Goff is QB8 so far. Hes had 2 great games, 3 okay, and 1 stinker. Winston had 1 stinker (half actually), and one great game against a terrible defense. I think both will be top 10 QBs, so I'm possibly splitting hairs here.

I have a thought on this, do anyone else?

Edited by Dr. Dan
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24 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Who would you rather have Goff or Winston ROS?

Goff is QB8 so far. Hes had 2 great games, 3 okay, and 1 stinker. Winston had 1 stinker (half actually), and one great game against a terrible defense. I think both will be top 10 QBs, so I'm possibly splitting hairs here.

I have a thought on this, do anyone else?

Goff will get a steady 20 points every week but he isn't going to get in many shootouts.  He's finished in the top 12 QBs in only 2 of 6 weeks.

Winston has started 1 game and he was the top scoring QB.  The bucs have been in tons of shootouts.  4 of 5 games bucs QBs have thrown for over 390 yards.  He's already had his bye.  It will probably be a bumpy ride but everything is lined up for a top 5 performance ROS.

FF championships aren't won by playing it safe.

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19 hours ago, Capella said:

Finally. But unless the new guy is a magician I don’t see how it matters. The scheme is the scheme. 

We'll see.  Duffner just needs to be more aggressive. 

I've heard from posters on another board I frequent, who apparently have insider access to the agent of one of the players, that Smith had been approached by a well respected member of the defense about possibly making some changes and the player was told to go eff himself, basically.  For what it's worth.

 

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21 hours ago, rickyg said:

I am tempering my expectations bigly for week 7.  Cle D is very good vs qb.  They forced Brees, rivers, into modest games.  Only an that did anything of significance to them  Was Derek Carr.  Go figure.  But the other 5 QBs they have faced this year either had mediocre fantasy days or bad ones.  I think I will stream mayfield over him for the week. 

See a lot of "experts" just lumping Winston in as a top 5 QB this week and not looking at this matchup. CLE no pushover against the pass.

Game is in TB though. Debating Winston or Dalton (who faces KC who can get torched). Still leaning Winston...don't believe we see the ground game again.

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I feel silly bidding so much on this guy, but I swear my league is lethargic this year and guys are a week behind pickups. Either that or people just don't understand how much a top 5 QB can help you....

Needless to say, I landed him this morning. I will likely sit for Goff, as Cleveland has a pretty good defense. Unless someone here can talk me out of that. 

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27 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I feel silly bidding so much on this guy, but I swear my league is lethargic this year and guys are a week behind pickups. Either that or people just don't understand how much a top 5 QB can help you....

Needless to say, I landed him this morning. I will likely sit for Goff, as Cleveland has a pretty good defense. Unless someone here can talk me out of that. 

Glad you acquired him as well 

I’m starting with confidence vs. bRowns despite a good defense 

they are very beatable and Tampa high power d offense should beat them

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to QB Jameis Winston, NO

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