QB Jameis Winston, NO (2 Viewers)

[voiceofunreason]

Keep telling yourself that. Facts are facts and the fact is, Fitzpatrick is putting up better stats with the same guys. So you can talk all you want about your guy but he's not even better than a 36 year old journeyman with a team loaded at skill position players.

Matt Flynn is the packers single game td record holder. A lot of people on here questioned if it was Rogers or the system. Less dramatic but similar thing going on here. But you clearly hate the guy and it’s clouding your judgement and I’m pretty sure you know this already. 

What this really shows is that when Winston takes over he probably has the best receiving core in the league and most are very young. Great time to buy in dynasty.

 

[Capella]

How many times do you have to be told not to feed the troll?

 

new year, same me 

 

[cockroach]

Look, I'll leave the thread.

Go.

 

[rockaction]

Go.

Break from the FFA to get your concern about the board on, cockroach?  

 

[joeschmo]

What kind of league are you talking about? Not an abrupt tone, but just curious. Is it a 2QB league or are you talking QB1 and QB2 status because you might have fallen out of the top twelve in a standard-standard league? 

Right now, I'm in a super flex league with another flex with 16 teams, so every QB is pretty much taken. You're holding. If you're in a twelve team 2 QB league, you might think of dropping him for Dalton or Carr. It depends on the makeup of your league so much, though. What's your roster like? And keep in mind I'm no expert, which is why I don't work here and just comment, but I'd need to know league dynamics, etc.  

In a 12-team 2 QB league, Dalton and Carr are almost always rostered.  And probably Allen, Bradford etc etc.  So Jameis is tough to drop in those leagues.

 

[rockaction]

In a 12-team 2 QB league, Dalton and Carr are almost always rostered.  And probably Allen, Bradford etc etc.  So Jameis is tough to drop in those leagues.

Yeah, I know. I have him in Superflex and I can't drop. I was trying to gauge his league, that's all.   

 

[Grahamburn]

if Fitz keeps up this streak, you cannot yank him. You have to roll with him until he fizzles out.

True, of course.  400+, 4-5 TDs, and a victory every week.  No way you can pull him if that continues...

 

[DJackson10]

That is a bleak future. The best move the Bucs can make is to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft and grab Drew Lock. They blew it by listening to no clue Brooks and no clue Lovie. Then, stuck with this guy, the following year here comes Wentz and Goff and all the Bucs could do is try and convince themselves that they made a great pick. They could have tanked another year which is what I would have done. Both are way better QBs. Now here comes Drew Lock and possibly a few others and some other team will get him, possibly division rival New Orleans. The O is loaded and that is the only reason this guy is putting up #s. As soon as you screw up and pay him millions, you won't be able to afford to pay the rest. He's not capable of getting the ball to ham & egger skill position guys.

I'm one person who hates when teams tank because I think it's a weak copout to get the best pick possible rather then trying to fix in house situations first. Tanking should be the very last thing a team tries to do. However I agree with you on a lot of this. I'm not a TB fan but I saw Winston play FSU and never got the hype. His last two yrs at FSU he led the nation in first half INT's thrown. His defense bailed him out more then once in games over those two yrs. I'm a Florida fan but I always did appreciate talent when I saw it. I was jealous FSU had Dalvin Cook and really wanted my Eagles to take him. Back to Winston his SR year he threw like 4 picks in the 1st half to the Florida defense which despite not being good at QB defensively they were one of the best teams nationally. It was kind of a muggy rainy day this game and had Florida had any competent QB play and a Kicker (This was the last game I believe before they took a chance on Eddie Pinero) Florida wins and FSU doesn't make it to the title game that year most likely. 

Winston has a lot of issues. Saw one game late where he forgot where the RB was suppose to be when he handed it off. He misses high routinely (Which is why having WR's like Mike Evans and a TE like Howard are key for him) which can lead to INT's at the NFL. I've also heard the dude is dumb as a rock. Add that with his legal issues and well you got a bad situation on your hands. Unless you have a stout defense to cover up with Winston's slow starts or he gets started faster there's gonna be issues. TB was better off taking Cooper, Williams, Gurley, Beasley or Schreff there. I don't know Winston's contract status but maybe a trade this offseason or draft to accumulate picks is in the worth while. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm one person who hates when teams tank because I think it's a weak copout to get the best pick possible rather then trying to fix in house situations first. Tanking should be the very last thing a team tries to do. However I agree with you on a lot of this.

They have a funny way of tanking, if that's what they're doing.

 

[Grahamburn]

 I've also heard the dude is dumb as a rock.

TB was better off taking Cooper, Williams, Gurley, Beasley or Schreff there. I don't know Winston's contract status but maybe a trade this offseason or draft to accumulate picks is in the worth while. 

Riveting stuff.  I also think they should have taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of trading the 18th pick to Chicago.  Or maybe they should have gone after Aaron Rodgers with the 5th pick in 2005 instead of Cadillac Williams?  Then we wouldn't be in this Jameis mess at all!

 

[DJackson10]

Riveting stuff.  I also think they should have taken Dan Marino in 1983 instead of trading the 18th pick to Chicago.  Or maybe they should have gone after Aaron Rodgers with the 5th pick in 2005 instead of Cadillac Williams?  Then we wouldn't be in this Jameis mess at all!

I mean I shouldn't talk my team drafted a guy who was more interested in fighting fires with Smokey the Bear but still. All teams make mistakes, however the last 5-7 yrs for me in sports especially football and basketball I've been very gun shy on guys the media and fans and scouts have hyped up only to be right about them not making a mark at the next level or maybe not being as good as many think. I mean my buddy who went to FSU didn't see the hype with Winston either. Basically said he was lucky he was in the ACC and that he had a defense that was able to minimize mistakes. His defense either only allowed 3pts or got a TO for him if he turned it over early in the game. it wasn't until the 2nd half of games people saw the Winston the media and scouts were swinging off his nuts about. 

 

[Chaka]

From pro football focus: 

with Jameis Winston generating the highest percentage of positively-graded throws among all quarterbacks

What does this even mean? Is there a correlation between positively-graded throws and winning?

Who had the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Is it possible to have the highest percentage of positively-graded throws and the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Wouldn't the ratio of positively-graded throws to negatively-graded throws be a better measure of ability?

 

[the lone star]

Cowboys should look into a trade if they can. I don't trust Dak as a passer.

 

[lod001]

What does this even mean? Is there a correlation between positively-graded throws and winning?

Who had the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Is it possible to have the highest percentage of positively-graded throws and the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Wouldn't the ratio of positively-graded throws to negatively-graded throws be a better measure of ability?

Well, since all it did was generate loss after loss, I can tell you what it means. Jack ####.

 

[Capella]

What does this even mean? Is there a correlation between positively-graded throws and winning?

Who had the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Is it possible to have the highest percentage of positively-graded throws and the highest percentage of negatively-graded throws?

Wouldn't the ratio of positively-graded throws to negatively-graded throws be a better measure of ability?

You’ll have to ask them. I’m not privy to their metrics. I imagine highest percentage of highest graded throws makes it quite unlikely he has the highest percentage of lowest grades throws. That wouldn’t make a lot of sense. 

I’m guessing there is more of a correlation between having the very worst defense in the league and losing but that’s just me. 

 

[cockroach]

Well, since all it did was generate loss after loss, I can tell you what it means. Jack ####.

Is he supposed to play defense too?   They gave up the most yards in the league last year.

 

[rockaction]

Cross-post from another thread: I noticed he plays the Bears Week 4. You think mgmt. wants a rusty Winston against that front? He's sitting a game.  

 

[RushHour]

Cowboys should look into a trade if they can. I don't trust Dak as a passer.

LOL, Winston is way worse at everything QB related than Dak. 

 

[JohnnyU]

Owed 20 million next season

 

[Chaka]

You’ll have to ask them. I’m not privy to their metrics. I imagine highest percentage of highest graded throws makes it quite unlikely he has the highest percentage of lowest grades throws. That wouldn’t make a lot of sense. 

I’m guessing there is more of a correlation between having the very worst defense in the league and losing but that’s just me. 

Sure it would it all depends on what the percentages are.  50% could lead both positively-graded and negatively-graded throws. And if there are additional categories, e.g. neutrally-graded throws, then it becomes even more possible.

Nolan Ryan led the majors in strikeouts and walks in the same season six times. In three of those seasons he also led the league in batters hit and in one of them he led the league in shutouts. But he never led the league in wins, mostly because as you said (paraphrasing) having a bad team around you probably correlates to losing.

Obligatory Nolan Ryan link.

 

[Capella]

Cross-post from another thread: I noticed he plays the Bears Week 4. You think mgmt. wants a rusty Winston against that front? He's sitting a game.  

Definitely not playing the Bears game. Fitz has two more at the very least. 

 

[rockaction]

Definitely not playing the Bears game. Fitz has two more at the very least. 

The Bears look really tough up front right now. And in the secondary. Amukamara jumped a Wilson throw on Monday that was sick, and while the Bears fans on the board were complaining about the other corner -- Fuller, I believe, he had coverage all night. Took an incredible catch and throw to beat them. Bucs have their offensive work cut out for them.

 

[Faust]

The Tampa Bay Times' Rick Stroud wrote it "seems unlikely" Jameis Winston starts this week against the Bears.

Winston is eligible to return from his three-game suspension, but it does not appear as if a starting job is waiting for him following Ryan Fitzpatrick's hot start. "Jameis is a member of our team and anxious to get him back," coach Dirk Koetter said after the game on Monday night. "And I know Jameis, whatever role he ends up in, I know Jameis will embrace that role and give it everything he's got." The last line tells the story, and that tale is one in which Fitzpatrick remains the starter for at least another week. It would be a surprise if that is not confirmed on Tuesday.

Source: Tampa Bay Times 

Sep 25 - 9:35 AM

 

[Frostillicus]

I, for one, am not giving up on him.  He seems like a bonehead in like, a social kind of way maybe, but you can't argue with his numbers so far in his career.  You can't do that well and not be a student of the game.  I still think it's more likely he becomes a star than he flames out.

 

[Capella]

I, for one, am not giving up on him.  He seems like a bonehead in like, a social kind of way maybe, but you can't argue with his numbers so far in his career.  You can't do that well and not be a student of the game.  I still think it's more likely he becomes a star than he flames out.

Yes. I feel gross defending him when you think about the off the field stuff but he was quite good last year and should tear it up with these weapons when he hits the field this year. I’m pretty certain it will be week 6 after the bye. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Yes. I feel gross defending him when you think about the off the field stuff but he was quite good last year and should tear it up with these weapons when he hits the field this year. I’m pretty certain it will be week 6 after the bye. 

I agree.  The Bears could kill Fitz this weekend.  I think Winston is a QB1 the rest of the year.  Trying to figure out when to pull the trigger.  Picked him up last week but dropped him for Aaron Jones.  My 96 team league has 8 copies of him available so I think I can wait until Sunday of week 5 and pick him up.

 

[TZMarkie]

I agree.  The Bears could kill Fitz this weekend.  I think Winston is a QB1 the rest of the year. 

I started Fitzpatrick in 3 of 3 redraft leagues this week, and I am extremely nervous going forward.  In 2 I have Russell Wilson, but in the 3rd (coincidentally my biggest $$$ league) I have Fitzpatrick and ONLY Fitzpatrick.

I am very seriously debating picking up Baker Mayfield (Yeah I got balls) and also snagging Winston to go on the bench.

It wouldn't shock me in the slightest, if Fitzpatrick gets pulled at halftime this week and they roll out Winston. (cue the onslaught of pissed Fitzpatrick owners on this board if that happens)

 My finger is hovering over the trigger as we speak in my league. (truly open waiver wire where we can make moves at any time)

My one week roller coaster of Fitzmagic was fun, but I think the coaster is making the last turn and is about to stop.

TZM

 

[BassNBrew]

I think people are forgetting that he was QB#5 down the stretch last year on a ppg basis.  By going ppg, Wentz and Rodgers were still in front of him so injuries aren't swaying the numbers in his favor.  Due to the piss poor year the Bucs had, I thinking people are forgetting how good his fantasy stats were.  He was also injured during some of his mid-year starts so his year long total and ppg stats are artificially skewed down.

 

[Hilts]

I don't see any way Fitzpatrick stays remotely this hot, but until he cools off the team really has no choice but to keep playing him while Winston rides the bench. 

 

[BigJonE300]

I am so torn right now.  I'm in a 16-team PPR league with a roster cap of 2-QBs.  We have a practice squad to deal with bye weeks, injuries and suspensions which has allowed me to carry both Winston and Fitz.  Now that Winson has been reinstated I have to cut one of them loose.  This is excruciating, I couldn't cut it as an NFL GM/coach.  Fitz should be starting in my opinion.

 

[BassNBrew]

I am so torn right now.  I'm in a 16-team PPR league with a roster cap of 2-QBs.  We have a practice squad to deal with bye weeks, injuries and suspensions which has allowed me to carry both Winston and Fitz.  Now that Winson has been reinstated I have to cut one of them loose.  This is excruciating, I couldn't cut it as an NFL GM/coach.  Fitz should be starting in my opinion.

Who is your other QB?

 

[BigJonE300]

Who is your other QB?

Doh, I swear I had him mentioned.  Wentz is my other QB.

 

[TZMarkie]

 Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's  post after mine.

 I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer).  As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense. 

 I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB.  He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.

I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.

Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate) 

 TZM

 

[habsfan]

 Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's  post after mine.

 I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer).  As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense. 

 I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB.  He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.

I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.

Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate) 

 TZM

I picked him and Trubisky up this morning to replace JimmyG and Tyrod because, why not? I think it's sound logic they go back to Winston at some point due to a combination of who Fitz generally is and the decisions they have to make. Fantasy wise Winston has been good to great but he has shown some "true colours" of his own at times that he needs to get past. I'm not convinced he hasn't reached that "he is who he is" apex of his development...

 

[NeverEnough]

 Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's  post after mine.

 I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer).  As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense. 

 I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB.  He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.

I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.

Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate) 

 TZM

2 of the 3 INTs were not his fault, though...

 

[JuniorNB]

I can't imagine them going away from Fitzpatrick at the moment. Despite the three interceptions in week three, he's still leading the best offense in the league. If it were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers coming back from suspension, sure you sit Fitz down. But for an average-at-best guy like Winston? Why would you mess with the success they're having?

 

[Interseptopus]

  He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week.

can you elaborate? what constituted a meltdown?

Was it the part where two of his INTs were not his fault?

Or was it the part where he lead his team back down 3 scores to give them a chance to win?

I guess I was watching a different game than you. I didnt see a meltdown. unless all you're doing is looking at the box score 

 

[Grahamburn]

I think people are forgetting that he was QB#5 down the stretch last year on a ppg basis.  By going ppg, Wentz and Rodgers were still in front of him so injuries aren't swaying the numbers in his favor.  Due to the piss poor year the Bucs had, I thinking people are forgetting how good his fantasy stats were.  He was also injured during some of his mid-year starts so his year long total and ppg stats are artificially skewed down.

People struggle to separate the off field and on field with him.  He's not a good guy.  At least he wasn't as recently as 2016.  However, his numbers have been quite good taking everything into consideration.

I'm not advocating benching Fitzpatrick.  I think he's earned the right to continue to start.  The Bucs could have never dreamed of their season beginning this way.  Everyone had them buried at 0-3.

I just wonder if Jameis could have done the same thing with these weapons, improved protection, the play caller change, and a defense that has actually managed to get a few stops these first 3 games.

 

[GoBirds]

can you elaborate? what constituted a meltdown?

Was it the part where two of his INTs were not his fault?

Or was it the part where he lead his team back down 3 scores to give them a chance to win?

I guess I was watching a different game than you. I didnt see a meltdown. unless all you're doing is looking at the box score 

The pick 6 in his own territory was awful. We've seen this movie with the Bills, Jets, and whoever else he played for.........if you want to cap out at 7-9 9-7 range he's your guy. 

 

[Grahamburn]

The pick 6 in his own territory was awful. We've seen this movie with the Bills, Jets, and whoever else he played for.........if you want to cap out at 7-9 9-7 range he's your guy. 

It was a brutal first half.  The pick 6 and the one he threw over Evans were his fault.   It was zone and Evans sat down like he was supposed to.  Fitz didn't read the coverage properly.  He also took a sack in field goal range.  I guess you can't blame him for the tipped ball, but he still tried to gunslinger sidearm it around a 300 pound DE. 

He brought them back, but much of their deficit was because of his first half play.  That and Conte being a pansy.

 

[Interseptopus]

The pick 6 in his own territory was awful. We've seen this movie with the Bills, Jets, and whoever else he played for.........if you want to cap out at 7-9 9-7 range he's your guy. 

Yes, it was pretty bad, but does that constitute a melt down? That's quite the over-reaction IMO

 

[BassNBrew]

2 of the 3 INTs were not his fault, though...

Big Fitz fan here, but he was in meltdown mode.

https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-edmunds-makes-first-career-int

https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-dupree-s-pick-six

And while the other was batted as I recall, you don't throw straight into a DLineman's extended arm.

 

[BassNBrew]

Yes, it was pretty bad, but does that constitute a melt down? That's quite the over-reaction IMO

I think it does.  Halftime came at the right time for him.  Very impressive second half.

Doesn't matter, Mack is going to break him in half the way the line played and Winston will be mopping up the pieces.

 

[Grahamburn]

Big Fitz fan here, but he was in meltdown mode.

https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-edmunds-makes-first-career-int

https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-dupree-s-pick-six

And while the other was batted as I recall, you don't throw straight into a DLineman's extended arm.

The pressure of being in the national spotlight and on MNF at the same time got to him in that first half in my opinion.  He looked nervous to me.

 

[tangfoot]

I can't imagine them going away from Fitzpatrick at the moment. Despite the three interceptions in week three, he's still leading the best offense in the league. If it were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers coming back from suspension, sure you sit Fitz down. But for an average-at-best guy like Winston? Why would you mess with the success they're having?

Let's go hypothetical for a moment here.  If Winston's suspension was only two games and Fitz throws 3 interceptions in full tilt mode on Monday Night Football, does Tampa Bay make the switch at halftime?

I think they would have.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

2 of the 3 INTs were not his fault, though...

People keep saying that but the one he threw side-armed into the pass rusher's arms that was tipped could be argued to be his fault and I tend to think the overthrow of Evans was also his fault. So I could easily say 2 of the 3 or 3 of 3 were his fault.

 

[tangfoot]

I'm not convinced he hasn't reached that "he is who he is" apex of his development...

But for an average-at-best guy like Winston?

He's finished as QB12, QB11 and would have been QB8 if you prorate his 13 games in 2017 out to 16.

I get that he's not sexy, and he's more than a bit of an #######.  But he's been productive and valuable in fantasy.

 

[JuniorNB]

He's finished as QB12, QB11 and would have been QB8 if you prorate his 13 games in 2017 out to 16.

I get that he's not sexy, and he's more than a bit of an #######.  But he's been productive and valuable in fantasy.

I'm talking NFL, not fantasy.  Just a middle of the pack guy. That's my point. Why would you bench one of the hottest QBs in the league for someone who's never been more than average?  I'm not saying that Fitz will keep it up or that Winston won't take(and deserve) the job back at some point. But Fitz is playing better on this three game run than Winston ever has.  Why change? 

 

[habsfan]

He's finished as QB12, QB11 and would have been QB8 if you prorate his 13 games in 2017 out to 16.

I get that he's not sexy, and he's more than a bit of an #######.  But he's been productive and valuable in fantasy.

Absolutely agree. I'm just saying that through the lens as "real football" being a leading indicator of fantasy football, he's at the tipping point of becoming a "journeyman" himself.

 

[Interseptopus]

I think it does.  Halftime came at the right time for him.  Very impressive second half.

Doesn't matter, Mack is going to break him in half the way the line played and Winston will be mopping up the pieces.

FTR I do believe Winston comes in at some point, I just was surprised people felt that Fitzpatrick had a bad game last week... he over came adversity and looked pretty solid in that second half. A lot of QBs have done the same.