Dynasty & Redraft: QB Patrick ‘Showtime’ Mahomes II, Chiefs

[Don Hutson 1,831]

11 hours ago, miqws said:

If Mahomes has had prior history, then chances of surgery higher as it indicates inherent instability.

Mahomes' body language when the injury happened made me think this had happened to him before.

[Hot Sauce Guy 9,022]

2 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

Mahomes' body language when the injury happened made me think this had happened to him before.

While possible, I’m a little bit skeptical of this. 

i dislocated my shoulder several times - the first time the pain was incredible. That’s the look I thought I saw on Mahomes when his knee was out. 

When they popped it back in, I felt instantly better. Sore, but the pain went from a 9/10 to a 1/10. 

That’s how Mahomes looked to me walking off on the sideline, especially when he stopped using the trainer for assistance.

i don’t know if anything’s come out saying he’s done this before, but based only on my personal experience with dislocations, I didn’t see anything On Thursday to indicate that wasn’t the first time.  

 

 

 

[Don Hutson 1,831]

I'll probably try to pick up Matt Moore next week.  But his schedule is brutal.  And it'll be a tough fantasy playoff schedule for Mahomes if/when he does come back.

 

Week     Team     Ave Opp QB Fantasy Pts Rank

    8       Packers                26th

    9       Vikings                 21st

   10      Titans                   25th

   11      Chargers              24th

   12      Bye

   13      Raiders                10th

   14      Patriots                32nd

   15      Broncos               30th

   16      Bears                    28th

   17      Chargers              24th

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Don Hutson

[Cheese and Crackers 279]

9 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

While possible, I’m a little bit skeptical of this. 

i dislocated my shoulder several times - the first time the pain was incredible. That’s the look I thought I saw on Mahomes when his knee was out. 

When they popped it back in, I felt instantly better. Sore, but the pain went from a 9/10 to a 1/10. 

That’s how Mahomes looked to me walking off on the sideline, especially when he stopped using the trainer for assistance.

i don’t know if anything’s come out saying he’s done this before, but based only on my personal experience with dislocations, I didn’t see anything On Thursday to indicate that wasn’t the first time.  

 

 

 

I've dislocated (maybe subluxated is more accurate, since it doesn't move so far laterally that I can't get it back into place myself) my kneecaps more than once on each side.

Your description of the before and after pain matches my experience. After a few minutes to collect myself, I'm able to get up and finish the day.

The first time freaked me out, because I wasn't sure what had happened, and the pain was so intense that the brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.

The later occurrences, there's more of an "oh, crap, not this again"

[Hot Sauce Guy 9,022]

SPN's Adam Schefter reports Patrick Mahomes (knee) could return in three weeks "if not sooner."

Mahomes' much-anticipated MRI results were a "best-case scenario" for the Chiefs, who are expected to exercise "extreme caution" with the reigning MVP as he works back from a dislocated kneecap in addition to his pre-existing high-ankle sprain. While some had feared his injury Thursday night would be a season-ender, Schefter's ESPN colleague Chris Mortensen hears Mahomes is "week to week." In the meantime, expect Matt Moore to fill in at quarterback, at least until Chad Henne (ankle) is activated from injured reserve. Kyle Shurmur, currently on the team's practice squad, will likely be called on to back up Moore next week when the Chiefs host Green Bay on Sunday Night Football.

[kittenmittens 1,282]

Great news.  Still use extreme caution please.  This season isn't worth any risk of shortening a hall of fame career. 

[Hot Sauce Guy 9,022]

 

3 minutes ago, Cheese and Crackers said:

The later occurrences, there's more of an "oh, crap, not this again"

exactly - pop it back in and go on with your day. I never went back to the doctor, just had friends pop it in. 

eventually had surgery for it to tighten up the labrum, which had eventually torn. causing it to get looser & looser 

sounds like Mahomes merely stretched his ligaments so he indeed seems to have dodged the need for surgery. 

[Hot Sauce Guy 9,022]

2 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Great news.  Still use extreme caution please.  This season isn't worth any risk of shortening a hall of fame career. 

It’s truly the best possible news. better than I thought the best case scenario since he didn’t tear anything. Amazing. 

ah to be young again. I bump my arm & I’ve got a bruise for a month. 

[Football Jones 1,461]

3 weeks looks realistic now, but the question is how effective he'll be.

Still, it's great news.

[Faust 5,252]

 

Quote

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Patrick Mahomes (knee) is facing a 3-5 week absence.

Mahomes suffered a grim-looking knee injury in Thursday night's win over Denver, though his MRI revealed minimal damage outside of his dislocated knee cap. Per Rapoport, Mahomes "stretched" his ligaments, but nothing was torn. The possibility of surgery, even in the offseason, has yet to be discussed as Mahomes is confident he can return for either Week 11 against the Chargers (that will be a Monday night game in Mexico City) or after Kansas City's Week 12 bye. Matt Moore is tentatively expected to start in Mahomes' place, though Chad Henne (ankle) could be in that mix as well once he returns from injured reserve.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Oct 20, 2019, 9:40 AM ET

 

[Faust 5,252]

 

Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes may be the team’s undoing

[ChiefD 19,140]

Per Andy Reid's press conference today (I pulled this from Sports Radio 810's Facebook feed)

"it'd be a stretch" for Mahomes to play on Sunday against the Packers on Sunday Night Football at Arrowhead, but won't rule him out yet.

[Dizzy 803]

5 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

Per Andy Reid's press conference today (I pulled this from Sports Radio 810's Facebook feed)

"it'd be a stretch" for Mahomes to play on Sunday against the Packers on Sunday Night Football at Arrowhead, but won't rule him out yet.

ESPN reporting 3-6 weeks... Andy Reid reporting GTD-??? weeks

Clear as mud.

[ChiefD 19,140]

9 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

ESPN reporting 3-6 weeks... Andy Reid reporting GTD-??? weeks

Clear as mud.

Yep, pretty much. 

Nothing would surprise me with Mahomes. I seriously doubt he plays this week, but in two weeks? I wouldn't be shocked.

[Stinkin Ref 1,313]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:23 PM, Don Hutson said:

Mahomes' body language when the injury happened made me think this had happened to him before.

with Mahomes being possibly the most popular player in the most popular sport.....if it had happened to him before I think we would have heard about it by now.....in today's world somebody could probably find out what he had for breakfast super bowl sunday 2002.....let alone if he blew out his kneecap in college/high school/middle school/pop warner/3rd grade flag football at recess....

[Faust 5,252]

Patrick Mahomes 'progressing nicely' in knee rehab

[Faust 5,252]

Quote

Patrick Mahomes (knee) was limited in Wednesday's practice.

Nobody is expecting Mahomes to play against the Packers, but coach Andy Reid is leaving the door open, refusing to rule Mahomes out Sunday. Matt Moore is taking the "majority" of the first-team reps, and Kyle Shurmur has been promoted from the practice squad. Mahomes is expected to beat his 3-6 week recovery timeframe.

SOURCE: BJ Kissel on Twitter

Oct 23, 2019, 12:59 PM ET

 

 

[LawFitz 1,077]

10 minutes ago, Faust said:

Patrick Mahomes (knee) was limited in Wednesday's practice.

Nobody is expecting Mahomes to play against the Packers, but coach Andy Reid is leaving the door open, refusing to rule Mahomes out Sunday. Matt Moore is taking the "majority" of the first-team reps, and Kyle Shurmur has been promoted from the practice squad. Mahomes is expected to beat his 3-6 week recovery timeframe.

SOURCE: BJ Kissel on Twitter

Oct 23, 2019, 12:59 PM ET

Edited October 23, 2019 by LawFitz

[Gottabesweet 960]

I can't believe they'd even have him limited less than a week later.  Give the dude at least a week off the ankle/knee.

[I Am the Stig 106]

32 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Just a friendly reminder of what rushing a young QB back from injury can look like:

 

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/674163-official-robert-griffin-iii-rgiii-rg3/page/2/

[tricky92 496]

40 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Best post ever!! 

[LawFitz 1,077]

9 minutes ago, I Am the Stig said:

Just a friendly reminder of what rushing a young QB back from injury can look like:

 

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/674163-official-robert-griffin-iii-rgiii-rg3/page/2/

(Pretty sure) I won't be starting Mahomie this week regardless, and hope the Chiefs don't either. I'm excited because this is a strong indication that he is making significant progress in his rehab and that perhaps this knee injury may have simply been just a HUGE scare in the longer run. Even as a Raiders fan, I want to see this dude continue his career at his best. This year while I have him in redraft and beyond when I probably won't.

Appreciate the point about Griffin's knee injury, but there are some substantial differences.

a. Thankfully, Mahomes injury appears to have been WAY less severe. Griffin shredded every internal ligament, not just his ACL, if I recall correctly.

b. Griffin's game started with his legs + catching the NFL by storm with the read-option. Once the league caught up to the RO and he was forced to rely more on his arm and brain, rather than his quickness, he was cooked. Mahomes can run, but that is by far his last option on plays.

The key will be less related to Griffin's case comparison and more on whether the Chiefs can protect Mahomie in the pocket. They've absolutely sucked doing so this year - likely due in great part to Fisher's injury - and PM has suffered two significant injuries already as a result. I am way more concerned about that dynamic than anything else right now.

[Football Jones 1,461]

Does Reid actually think letting Mahomey "practice" will fool the Pack into gameplanning for him?

Andy, you clever sucker, LOL.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Football Jones

[Tool 1,588]

37 minutes ago, tricky92 said:

Best post ever!! 

I was going to say worst post ever 

[Gottabesweet 960]

What?

[Wrigley 3,446]

I’m guessing his floor is 0

[tricky92 496]

34 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

I’m guessing his floor is 0

He’s no Chase Edmonds.

[Stinkin Ref 1,313]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:25 PM, Stinkin Ref said:

I have absolutely nothing to base this on, (besides what my eye balls tell me)...but something tells me he will be back sooner than people think...I wouldn't be surprised if it in two weeks....Vikings game...

really bummed not to see him and Rodgers go head to head next Sunday night....was really looking forward to that one...

bump of my own post and I am not a doctor nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night......but just the way he was walking off the field and heading to the locker room had me thinking "if he really wanted too....it looks like he could go back in right now....he looks like he wants to play".....I have a feeling that sucker just popped out and they popped it back in and not much else to see here...this dude is still a baby and will heal quickly....let alone with the best people in the world and the best treatment around......let's face it, players in all sports are coming back quicker from injuries and surgeries than they ever have....people always want to put a label/timeline on things....."at least three weeks"....well every injury is different and players heal differently and respond to treatment differently.....as a fat 50 year old man I would milk this bad boy out for at least 2 months....but if they say "3 weeks" it really could mean only "2 weeks" depending on how someone responds....and then you look at it and we will be 10 days out when Sunday rolls around and who the hell knows....thats only 4 days short of 2 weeks....the thing is, the body doesn't have a calendar that it HAS to abide by.....it will heal on its own schedule.....if its 2 weeks and 6 days and the injury was supposed to take 3 weeks, does that mean you can't play because you are 1 day short of 3 weeks...?...."well no one day probably not a big deal"....well what about 2 days.....5 days.....7 days....

I doubt he plays....but I think it will be more because of optics because I bet if you ask Mahomes, he would say "let me play"....I get the whole "protect the player from themselves" thing....but they probably sit him as a precaution and for fear if they did let him play and he he got a hangnail.... people would say they brought him back too early and all they care about is winning and they don't care about the kid....but I do think it's realistic that he could play if he/they really wanted him too.....let's just say this....if Sunday night was the super bowl.....I bet he would be out there.... 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Stinkin Ref

[I Am the Stig 106]

2 hours ago, LawFitz said:

(Pretty sure) I won't be starting Mahomie this week regardless, and hope the Chiefs don't either. I'm excited because this is a strong indication that he is making significant progress in his rehab and that perhaps this knee injury may have simply been just a HUGE scare in the longer run. Even as a Raiders fan, I want to see this dude continue his career at his best. This year while I have him in redraft and beyond when I probably won't.

Appreciate the point about Griffin's knee injury, but there are some substantial differences.

a. Thankfully, Mahomes injury appears to have been WAY less severe. Griffin shredded every internal ligament, not just his ACL, if I recall correctly.

b. Griffin's game started with his legs + catching the NFL by storm with the read-option. Once the league caught up to the RO and he was forced to rely more on his arm and brain, rather than his quickness, he was cooked. Mahomes can run, but that is by far his last option on plays.

The key will be less related to Griffin's case comparison and more on whether the Chiefs can protect Mahomie in the pocket. They've absolutely sucked doing so this year - likely due in great part to Fisher's injury - and PM has suffered two significant injuries already as a result. I am way more concerned about that dynamic than anything else right now.

I’m aware that the injuries are different but that doesn’t change the mindset. Not one single doctor who has spoken on the type of injury has suggested nearly as aggressive a timeline for return. 
 

He is already a bit hobbled by his ankle injury and his knee won’t help with that at all. His legs are his first defense to protect himself on the field. His ego might be writing a check he can’t cash. The whole point with RGIII was that he came back before he was 100% and could play his game at 100%. 
 

I have no Mahomes stock but as a fan I’d rather see him shut it down for a couple of weeks and come back at near full strength. If you think of some of Mahomes’ greatest plays in his short career almost none of them came from him standing in the pocket. 

[LawFitz 1,077]

3 minutes ago, I Am the Stig said:

I’m aware that the injuries are different but that doesn’t change the mindset. Not one single doctor who has spoken on the type of injury has suggested nearly as aggressive a timeline for return. 
 

He is already a bit hobbled by his ankle injury and his knee won’t help with that at all. His legs are his first defense to protect himself on the field. His ego might be writing a check he can’t cash. The whole point with RGIII was that he came back before he was 100% and could play his game at 100%. 
 

I have no Mahomes stock but as a fan I’d rather see him shut it down for a couple of weeks and come back at near full strength. If you think of some of Mahomes’ greatest plays in his short career almost none of them came from him standing in the pocket. 

I'd also like to see him sit for a couple weeks. But am still very encouraged by this news overall. 

[lod001 5,406]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:59 AM, lod001 said:

Holding. While he's not Favre tough, he tough enough and competitive to come back and deal with it. 3 games max. My guess is 1.

Pretty confident that I nailed it.

[Stinkin Ref 1,313]

6 hours ago, lod001 said:

Pretty confident that I nailed it.

I called it as well saying back by Vikings game. Which seems like a given at this point.

[Don Hutson 1,831]

It's a nice week for us Mahomes owners who are streaming quarterbacks.  Bridgewater vs Arizona, Mason Rudolph vs Miami, and Tannehill vs Tampa Bay are all nice matchups.  I'm going to wait until Mahomes is officially out before I pick any other quarterback up.  Chiefs play Sunday night so maybe Rudolph is the best early week pickup since he plays Monday night and can be a fallback option if Mahomes becomes a true gametime decision.  Ryan Fitzpatrick is another Monday night option for the procrastinators.

[MAC_32 12,495]

20 hours ago, I Am the Stig said:

I’m aware that the injuries are different but that doesn’t change the mindset. Not one single doctor who has spoken on the type of injury has suggested nearly as aggressive a timeline for return. 
 

He is already a bit hobbled by his ankle injury and his knee won’t help with that at all. His legs are his first defense to protect himself on the field. His ego might be writing a check he can’t cash. The whole point with RGIII was that he came back before he was 100% and could play his game at 100%. 
 

I have no Mahomes stock but as a fan I’d rather see him shut it down for a couple of weeks and come back at near full strength. If you think of some of Mahomes’ greatest plays in his short career almost none of them came from him standing in the pocket. 

I hope these guys patting themselves on the back for 'calling it' bump my posts about this mocking me in February for saying how I was worried about nothing. Because that means nothing serious happened to him before he got surgery and we all can continue to watch him play football like it's never been played before. This is not about toughness. This is about risk assessment. If all relevant parties are comfortable with it in a few weeks then go try to win a lombardi with a QB operating at 80some%. In no world is the risk worth the potential reward before then though. 

[Faust 5,252]

Patrick Mahomes (knee) will practice again Thursday.

Mahomes isn't expected to suit up this Sunday, but he's at least been healthy enough to get out to practice in back-to-back days. "Pat looked like Pat," Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy said after Wednesday's practice. Matt Moore's target distribution with Mahomes' sidelined last week was as follows: Tyreek Hill (5), Travis Kelce (4), Demarcus Robinson (4), Damien Williams (2), Mecole Hardman (1), Blake Bell (1), Darrel Williams (1) and LeSean McCoy (1). Hill, Kelce and Shady are the only realistic solid fantasy options this week assuming Mahomes is ultimately sidelined.

SOURCE: Adam Teicher on Twitter.

Oct 24, 2019, 12:54 PM ET

[Faust 5,252]

Patrick Mahomes (knee) took the second-team reps in Thursday's practice.

That's up from the fourth-team on Wednesday. Speaking after Wednesday's practice, OC Eric Bieniemy said "Pat looked like Pat." Mahomes seemed to earn similar plaudits on Thursday. It is still highly unlikely that he starts Sunday night against the Packers, but the idea cannot be dismissed out of hand. This is unlikely to become a game-time decision type of situation. Friday should provide clarity.

SOURCE: Adam Teicher on Twitter

Oct 24, 2019, 2:47 PM ET

[Buck Bradcanon 1,436]

Brah.

[mbuehner 624]

1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

I hope these guys patting themselves on the back for 'calling it' bump my posts about this mocking me in February for saying how I was worried about nothing. Because that means nothing serious happened to him before he got surgery and we all can continue to watch him play football like it's never been played before.

Theres no reason to believe he needs surgery, now or in the offseason.

[MAC_32 12,495]

26 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

Theres no reason to believe he needs surgery, now or in the offseason.

This is the only opinion I've read that says surgery is not inevitable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-knee-injury-projected-recovery-timetable-as-explained-by-medical-expert/

And it still shares the same timeline as the other opinions out there in the most optimistic scenario - a return anytime before week 13 is a mistake.

[mbuehner 624]

12 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This is the only opinion I've read that says surgery is not inevitable.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-knee-injury-projected-recovery-timetable-as-explained-by-medical-expert/

And it still shares the same timeline as the other opinions out there in the most optimistic scenario - a return anytime before week 13 is a mistake.

Or here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2019/10/18/ortho-doc-patrick-mahomes-unique-body-type-may-have-played-role-in-injury/#51e38bf21863

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/api/amp/chiefs/news/this-analysis-from-dr-david-chao-is-consistent-with-what-a-source-familiar-with-the-situation-tells-hlam9blkU0OCqsxV-F9lJQ/

 

 

All the sports medicine links I've seen divide it into surgery and nonsurgery, which certainly seems to strongly imply surgery isnt guaranteed requirement.

https://health.uconn.edu/orthopedics-sports-medicine/conditions-and-treatments/where-does-it-hurt/knee/patellar-dislocation/

https://www.methodistsports.com/education/knee-education/conditions/kneecap-dislocation/

https://nyboneandjoint.com/blog/football-injuries-kneecap-patellar-dislocation/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0363546515576902?journalCode=ajsb

 

The problem is its rare to get a knee dislocation without shredding a bunch of ligaments and cartilage. That didnt happen with Mahomes, so the stock answer isnt appropriate. They couldn't perform surgery now if they wanted to, theres nothing to fix. Its possible they will require some tightening up of the ligaments at some point, but thats just a possibility.

[Dr. Octopus 16,237]

4 hours ago, Faust said:

 

 

Sounds like he got demoted.

[Ministry of Pain 5,549]

Just my .02 and they really don't matter however...I watched a knee cap go in a direction that made me feel sick to my stomach...I own this guy and paid a huge price in different leagues to secure him HOWEVER I love this kid and I don't care about FF, I want him protected because I want him to keep entertaining me thru the 2020's into 2030 and that won't happen if they keep pushing him...RG III ring a bell? 

Please for the love of god and all things holy, sit him down for a week or two and be thankful you have him for the next 10 years. Love him like you would a son and treat him with the same respect, he ####### deserves it. He is the best QB since Dan Marino and I don't want to see him further hurt. 

 

[Anarchy99 6,154]

Probably just a coincidence (or playing better teams), but . . .

KC with Mahomes starting has gone 19-7 record wise. 16-1 in day games. 3-6 in prime time games. Seemed like a very odd split. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Anarchy99

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

15 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Probably just a coincidence (or playing better teams), but . . .

KC with Holmes starting has gone 19-7 record wise. 16-1 in day games. 3-6 in prime time games. Seemed like a very odd split. 

priest holmes?

 

[Anarchy99 6,154]

2 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

priest holmes?

 

Holmes . . . Mahomes. Just shows that I fondly remember Priest. He was a staple on my fantasy teams.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

not an odd split....generally you play better teams in prime time.....

[Anarchy99 6,154]

30 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

not an odd split....generally you play better teams in prime time.....

Not going to look up every QB, but I did check up on Wilson. He's 27-8-1 in primetime games.
Probably just a fluky thing for Mahomes, but a .941 winning percentage in day games and a .333 winning percentage in night games seemed like a huge spread.

[whole-show 291]

Not a big surprise, but declared out for week 8

[ChiefD 19,140]

4 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Not going to look up every QB, but I did check up on Wilson. He's 27-8-1 in primetime games.
Probably just a fluky thing for Mahomes, but a .941 winning percentage in day games and a .333 winning percentage in night games seemed like a huge spread.

Seattle's defense compared to the Chiefs defense, really. 

To me, that's your difference.

[Kwai Chang Caine 1,037]

Guess I can step away from the ledge after rolling cousins and his usual prime time turd...