barackdhouse
Footballguy
I'm just wondering if Montgomery will be there at 1.04. Or Sanders. Seems a lot of people are going RB at 1.03 and I hold 1.04 in a few spots. But every draft looks a little different so far.
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RB David Montgomery, DET (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
TripItUp
Footballguy
Raptors409
Footballguy
I'm warming up to him. Bears homer and the coachspeak about this guy is off the charts. They go out of their way to say they want him to be their feature beack.
Faust
MVP
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Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
This is a guy I think footballguys are off on. If I look at the current redraft ppr rankings of all the guys on this site, Cohen averages out to rb 21 and Montgomery averages out to rb 41. I think in PPR due to number of touches and his ability also to catch the ball that Montgomery will outscore Cohen this season in ppr. I think Montgomery should be the one in the low 20's. I suspect we'll see this gap close by the time preseason is over but the current discrepancy is shocking to me.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
That's not how it's going in bestball or FBG drafts. Montgomery is going 4th or 5th round right around Ingram and Guice.
jm192
Footballguy
Jordan Howard had the worst year of his career. Still finished with 270 touches, over 1,000 total yards, and 9 TD's.
He finished as RB20 in 1/2 PPR leagues.
We kind of know what Cohen is, and he's effective in his role. I don't think they'll look to make him a heavy usage guy.
Montgomery should inherit most of those 270 touches. He's more dynamic than Howard and should be able to outdo his 3.7 YPC AND catch the ball more.
He finished as RB20 in 1/2 PPR leagues.
We kind of know what Cohen is, and he's effective in his role. I don't think they'll look to make him a heavy usage guy.
Montgomery should inherit most of those 270 touches. He's more dynamic than Howard and should be able to outdo his 3.7 YPC AND catch the ball more.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
My two cents, this is a case of rookie fever. Cohen can do things that Mongomery just can't. The rookie can run the ball better no doubt, and hes capable as a reciever. But Cohen is one of the best rb pass catchers out there. He will be on the field a lot.
To me, this likely works the al lot like last year, with Montgomery used similar to Howard but maybe catching a few more passes. But I just dont see the Bears putting him out there instead of Cohen to run routes out of the backfield.
In standard maybe they're close, but in ppr Cohen should be drafted a few rounds sooner.
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To me, the difference between Montgomery and Cohen is that the defense doesn't know the play call based on who's standing on the field. Cohen wasn't going to run it effectively, ever.
If Montgomery is 80% of Cohen as a receiver, that's still plenty valuable from an offensive coordinator's standpoint. It means that you can throw him the ball and the defense won't be expecting it.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree with Tangfoot that having a complete RB is an advantage for the offenses unpredictability.
I think Montgonery gets more touches than Cohen and likely outscores Cohen in any fantasy format.
Cohen is a constraint play offensive weapon, not a workhorse RB.
No one thinks Cordarralle Patterson is going to out touch Montgomery so why Cohen?
I think Montgonery gets more touches than Cohen and likely outscores Cohen in any fantasy format.
Cohen is a constraint play offensive weapon, not a workhorse RB.
No one thinks Cordarralle Patterson is going to out touch Montgomery so why Cohen?
cloppbeast
Footballguy
This is all just my 2cents. But I think you portray Cohen inaccurately. Not just a dump off artist, he might be the best deep threat rb of all times. While still awesome at dump offs too.
But yeah he has limitations. Not your choice on 4th and 1, or inside the 10. His inside running, it's not great. Hes much better with room to work. Its safe to say he is not a work horse.
Im just saying tho, if you dont think hes special in his established role, then one of us is wrong.
As for Mongomery, he's a perfect complement to Cohen. They could be the best 1-2 punch of all times.
But yeah he has limitations. Not your choice on 4th and 1, or inside the 10. His inside running, it's not great. Hes much better with room to work. Its safe to say he is not a work horse.
Im just saying tho, if you dont think hes special in his established role, then one of us is wrong.
As for Mongomery, he's a perfect complement to Cohen. They could be the best 1-2 punch of all times.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Huh? He is a good receiver but I am not sure what he has done that causes you to say Cohen might be the best deep threat of all times.
Cohen had 71 receptions last year and he might have a similar number again in 2019 as well as moving forward. Guys like Theo Riddick have done that multiple times. I see Cohen as having a similar role in the offense. His role is very much more as a receiver than as a runner. The jet sweeps or threat of that is what I am talking about as far as him being a constraint player, or an offensive weapon. To me that role is different than being the primary RB which I expect Montgomery to quickly be.
Last season Cohen's had 99 rushing attempts and 91 targets in the passing game. 190 opportunities are a lot but Howard had 276 opportunities last year as well almost 50% more opportunity than Cohen.
Montgomery is a better receiving option than Howard, so I see him getting a good amount of targets. and more than Howards 26 last season. I also expect Trubisky to grow a bit and to spread the ball around a bit more if he does.
The Bears did have Benny Cunningham last year but did not use him much. Now they have Mike Davis and I do expect them to use him more than they used Cunningham.who only had 2 targets last season.
Additionally Cordarralle Patterson will likely get some opportunities as well, these will be constraint plays and things that Cohen does as well. I see that possibly putting a small dent in Cohens opportunities as well.
What do you mean by special?
He has been more efficient than Theo Riddick but not as good as Darren Sproles.
I think Montgomery is a better RB than Howard and so he should have similar opportunities as Howard although I think he will be used more as a receiver than Howard was.
When you say a guy is a compliment to another, usually means they get less opportunity not more and that is how I see this being. So you have it backwards. Cohen is a compliment to Montgomery.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Tarik Cohen runs a 4.42 40 yard dash.
Theo Riddick runs a 4.68 40 yard dash.
I understand the 40 isn't everything. But that is a large disparity. Tarik Cohen is more of a deep threat then Riddick. His speed changes the defensive lineup because he causes mismatch issues.
Neither Montgomery (4.63 40 yard dash) nor Davis (4.61 40 yard dash) will bring that element.
That is why I can see Cohen staying on the field and being moved around like a chess piece (to tip off what the defense is running for Chicago's RPO), regardless of how they use Davis and Montgomery (who may be in a rotation for Jordan Howards carries).
The two compliments are Davis and Montgomery. Cohen is a table setter.
Theo Riddick runs a 4.68 40 yard dash.
I understand the 40 isn't everything. But that is a large disparity. Tarik Cohen is more of a deep threat then Riddick. His speed changes the defensive lineup because he causes mismatch issues.
Neither Montgomery (4.63 40 yard dash) nor Davis (4.61 40 yard dash) will bring that element.
That is why I can see Cohen staying on the field and being moved around like a chess piece (to tip off what the defense is running for Chicago's RPO), regardless of how they use Davis and Montgomery (who may be in a rotation for Jordan Howards carries).
The two compliments are Davis and Montgomery. Cohen is a table setter.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
People are sleeping on Cohen for some reason; maybe because hes not a feature back, if you will. Montgomery isnt either - not on a team with Cohen getting his 150 or so touches.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
IMO The other side of the discussion is that Tarik's frame is too small to take the pounding of an NFL feature back. You need the hammers that bring the lunch bucket to absorb some of those hits too.
IMO This is a committee. But Tarik is who they want with the ball in his hands in space. I think Montgomery and Davis are primarily going to take the ball in short spaces. I also expect various packages with two RBs.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
The point you've missed, if Cohen were on the Lions, Riddick would never see the field. Riddick is a dump off specialist, and not a great one. Cohen on the other hand, catches the ball down field often. He had one of the highest adot for a rb last season. You're just not getting the same element from Montgomery.
You could call Montgomery the primary RB, but Cohen outgained that designee in 2018.
rzrback77
Footballguy
Cohen averaged just over 10.1 ypc last year, very good for an RB, but hardly classifying him as a downfield specialist. Adam Humphries averaged a higher ypc last year.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Cohen also catches screen passes, dump offs, ect. He's not just a down field specialist, but it's one of his abilities.
His ypt was higher than McCaffey and Kamara, I'd guess tops in the league for a rb. Still better than a lot of receivers too.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This has turned into one of the weirder threads on the board.
Tarik Cohen is a CoP RB/3rd down specialist. He isn’t any kind of a threat to run between the tackles any meaningful amount. Mike Davis is depth. He’s been in the league 4 years, is on his third team, and has 234 career carries. 2 teams that would have loved for a RB like Davis to step up and demonstrate he can take on a lead role felt no need to carry him beyond 2 years.
Montgomery was drafted to run the ball, but also has strong receiving chops. He’s the lead RB in this bunch, barring injury or falling flat on his face and not having his skills translate to the next level. The Bears drafted him because he can be on the field in all situations, which means the D has to play honestly as opposed to knowing what’s coming with Cohen on the field. And honestly that fits Cohen’s game and optimization to the best. He can’t take on any kind of role that leads to his being pounded.
I don’t get some of the thinking here. Cohen is the table setter? Montgomery and Davis fighting each other for leftovers? If either of those things happen, the Bears’ O is in serious trouble.
Tarik Cohen is a CoP RB/3rd down specialist. He isn’t any kind of a threat to run between the tackles any meaningful amount. Mike Davis is depth. He’s been in the league 4 years, is on his third team, and has 234 career carries. 2 teams that would have loved for a RB like Davis to step up and demonstrate he can take on a lead role felt no need to carry him beyond 2 years.
Montgomery was drafted to run the ball, but also has strong receiving chops. He’s the lead RB in this bunch, barring injury or falling flat on his face and not having his skills translate to the next level. The Bears drafted him because he can be on the field in all situations, which means the D has to play honestly as opposed to knowing what’s coming with Cohen on the field. And honestly that fits Cohen’s game and optimization to the best. He can’t take on any kind of role that leads to his being pounded.
I don’t get some of the thinking here. Cohen is the table setter? Montgomery and Davis fighting each other for leftovers? If either of those things happen, the Bears’ O is in serious trouble.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Is Cohen a movable chess piece or just a COP/3rd down back? Looks like you put yourself in the camp which thinks the Bears throw him the ball so much because Howard couldnt catch. I completely disagree.
Just my take, this Bears backfield is James White/Sony Michel, and we know who will be James White. I think the Sony Michel is sort of in the air, tho probably is Montgomery. Both could be valuable in the right league, but Montgomery not so much in ppr.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I'm not missing any point here. I already said Cohen is more efficient than Ridfick.
The point you are intentionally missing is that their usage is very similar, just more yards for Cohen on average.
Yes I would say the guy who gets the ball more is the primary RB. Last year that was Howard. This year they upgraded to Montgomery who at minimum will be a better asset as a receiver than Howard was.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I don't know how one could think otherwise than that Cohen is the complimentary back.
A good one, sure. But complimentary/COP nonetheless.
A good one, sure. But complimentary/COP nonetheless.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
'Primary back', 'feature back', 'change of pace', 'complimentary back', '3rd down specialist'... there's just too many rb cliches being thrown around. Use whichever term you want to describe whichever Bears rb you want. It's all semantics.
Cohen is a great receiver and a decent runner in certain situations. There are reasons to have him on the field instead of Montgomery/Davis. Im sure you've seen some of his plays on sportscenter. He's shown he deserves some amount of touches, for example 160 last year. Whatever volume stats you expect to get out of Montgomery, Cohen puts a cap on it based on the things he can do.
Cohen is a great receiver and a decent runner in certain situations. There are reasons to have him on the field instead of Montgomery/Davis. Im sure you've seen some of his plays on sportscenter. He's shown he deserves some amount of touches, for example 160 last year. Whatever volume stats you expect to get out of Montgomery, Cohen puts a cap on it based on the things he can do.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree these labels are generalized when in actuality COP could mean a variety of different things.
It may be that Cohen is in more the Tyreek Hill role of Nagys offense and the high dose of targets is something you can count on even with the emergence of Montgomery. It isnt necessarily an even or situation.
I would like to look at snap counts and some other things before trying to project the Bears offense, but I hope my general view of the offense expanding to include more players as Trubisky develops is clear.
It's possible that the Bears passing offense increases its volume and if so Cohen could have similar numbers as last season with other players getting more opportunity around him.
If the offense does run a similar number of plays as last year then I see Cohens opportunities perhaps being less than last season.
It may be that Cohen is in more the Tyreek Hill role of Nagys offense and the high dose of targets is something you can count on even with the emergence of Montgomery. It isnt necessarily an even or situation.
I would like to look at snap counts and some other things before trying to project the Bears offense, but I hope my general view of the offense expanding to include more players as Trubisky develops is clear.
It's possible that the Bears passing offense increases its volume and if so Cohen could have similar numbers as last season with other players getting more opportunity around him.
If the offense does run a similar number of plays as last year then I see Cohens opportunities perhaps being less than last season.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
This is just my opinion, but I see Tarik Cohen as one of the players that tips Trubisky as to what scheme the defense is running. Similar to how KC uses Tyreek Hill (and probably will now use Hardman).
You can't coach speed. Other teams have to game plan against it. You can scout the counters and then game plan against the counters. Players that can be involved in both the backfield and run a full route tree AND have speed AND have hands like Cohen and Hill need to be game planned against. IMO That is a big part of what makes LeVeon Bell so dangerous (aside from his obvious talent and football smarts). And what makes them so especially dangerous in RPO offenses. Table setters. With the caveat that Cohen is no Hill or Bell.
IMO The player doesn't have to be the greatest player to play in the league to have success in that role. The player needs to be position versatile, catch the ball well and (ideally) should be fast and they should see success. I think Montgomery is going to be great. But he will need to create space primarily with moves and vision. It isn't the same thing. If Cohen gets outside the defense, he will run for a touchdown. Isn't that all that matters for fantasy football in the end?
I don't know about the running back cliches being tossed around the pool. I agree that his frame is probably too small to take 200+ carries. But I can remember backs like Charlie Garner and Garrison Heart (and a dozen other West Coast backs) who had similar frames and who excelled in schemes that used their pass catching ability in tight windows as a substitute for the run. If the Bears install triple moves this year (like KC did last year), Tarik Cohen could be looking at a breakout year IMO. Pretty sure he is the fastest offensive player on the team.
Now, understand that I am not saying that Montgomery AND Davis can't also have great years running and catching the ball. It really depends on match-ups during the games. That is the point of the RPO. They both could line up in the same backfield with one breaking outside and lining up as a receiver to tip what is the defense. And then Trubisky keys and calls a run or a pass that could result in either one getting an opportunity. There is enough opportunity that they all could theoretically have big years if they perform.
This doesn't seem that out there to me.
You can't coach speed. Other teams have to game plan against it. You can scout the counters and then game plan against the counters. Players that can be involved in both the backfield and run a full route tree AND have speed AND have hands like Cohen and Hill need to be game planned against. IMO That is a big part of what makes LeVeon Bell so dangerous (aside from his obvious talent and football smarts). And what makes them so especially dangerous in RPO offenses. Table setters. With the caveat that Cohen is no Hill or Bell.
IMO The player doesn't have to be the greatest player to play in the league to have success in that role. The player needs to be position versatile, catch the ball well and (ideally) should be fast and they should see success. I think Montgomery is going to be great. But he will need to create space primarily with moves and vision. It isn't the same thing. If Cohen gets outside the defense, he will run for a touchdown. Isn't that all that matters for fantasy football in the end?
I don't know about the running back cliches being tossed around the pool. I agree that his frame is probably too small to take 200+ carries. But I can remember backs like Charlie Garner and Garrison Heart (and a dozen other West Coast backs) who had similar frames and who excelled in schemes that used their pass catching ability in tight windows as a substitute for the run. If the Bears install triple moves this year (like KC did last year), Tarik Cohen could be looking at a breakout year IMO. Pretty sure he is the fastest offensive player on the team.
Now, understand that I am not saying that Montgomery AND Davis can't also have great years running and catching the ball. It really depends on match-ups during the games. That is the point of the RPO. They both could line up in the same backfield with one breaking outside and lining up as a receiver to tip what is the defense. And then Trubisky keys and calls a run or a pass that could result in either one getting an opportunity. There is enough opportunity that they all could theoretically have big years if they perform.
This doesn't seem that out there to me.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
We are talking about the same things Harry as far as Cohens role to give the QB a pre snap look at the defense and to use RPO to attack certain parts of the defense.
Cohen is the main constraint player who if the defense does not properly account for him can create big plays. It is the big play threat that keeps the defense honest in regards to him, and opens up other parts of the offense, such as the run to be more successful because of that.
Constrait plays can often be huge gains. They are also higher risk of losing yards as well. The amount of times a offense will actually run their constraint plays depends on how well the defense they are playing handles it. If they are not doing it well, then they might run 20 or more of these types of plays, if the defense is playing it well then they have to move the ball another way.
You can see this somewhat in the game logs as well. Some games he doesn't do much, while in other games he has some big plays and good yardage. Its not that hard to figure out when he has the big games either. It is mostly against the bad defenses who can't handle him. Arizona, Tampa Bay, Miami, Detroit, Giants, New England (?) Jets (?) the Bears will have the Detroit games again but they are playing a first place schedule this year and I could see the offense as a whole being more challenged because of that, and perhaps fewer good match ups for Cohen comes with that.
As far as snap counts Cohen played on 46% o the Bears offensive plays last season. Cohen got a opportunity .38 times per snap To contrast this Jordan Howard played on 58% of the snaps and got opportunity .44 times per snap.
Just based on the above I would expect Montgomery to play more snaps, get more opportunities and probably score more fantasy points than Cohen does.
I am almost ready to project for the whole Bears offense. Something that I think needs consideration is that the Bears forced a lot of turnovers last year. Eddie Jackson is a great ball hawk. Turnovers are usually inconsistent however and they may not get the offense as many opportunities this year. As far as total plays the Bears were 14th last year, but were slightly below average in terms of yards per play. So the overall offense could improve or decline as far as volume. I am still not sure about that yet.
As far as my personal perspective the main time I have seen Cohen is against the Vikings and well, he doesn't do much in those games. Most teams do not have the defensive personnel or coaching that the Vikings do though. It is actually Howard who has done very well against them, not Cohen. Zimmer takes the tricks away and maybe it is just that the Vikings are such a good tackling team, that short gains don't become explosive ones as often.
Cohen is the main constraint player who if the defense does not properly account for him can create big plays. It is the big play threat that keeps the defense honest in regards to him, and opens up other parts of the offense, such as the run to be more successful because of that.
Constrait plays can often be huge gains. They are also higher risk of losing yards as well. The amount of times a offense will actually run their constraint plays depends on how well the defense they are playing handles it. If they are not doing it well, then they might run 20 or more of these types of plays, if the defense is playing it well then they have to move the ball another way.
You can see this somewhat in the game logs as well. Some games he doesn't do much, while in other games he has some big plays and good yardage. Its not that hard to figure out when he has the big games either. It is mostly against the bad defenses who can't handle him. Arizona, Tampa Bay, Miami, Detroit, Giants, New England (?) Jets (?) the Bears will have the Detroit games again but they are playing a first place schedule this year and I could see the offense as a whole being more challenged because of that, and perhaps fewer good match ups for Cohen comes with that.
As far as snap counts Cohen played on 46% o the Bears offensive plays last season. Cohen got a opportunity .38 times per snap To contrast this Jordan Howard played on 58% of the snaps and got opportunity .44 times per snap.
Just based on the above I would expect Montgomery to play more snaps, get more opportunities and probably score more fantasy points than Cohen does.
I am almost ready to project for the whole Bears offense. Something that I think needs consideration is that the Bears forced a lot of turnovers last year. Eddie Jackson is a great ball hawk. Turnovers are usually inconsistent however and they may not get the offense as many opportunities this year. As far as total plays the Bears were 14th last year, but were slightly below average in terms of yards per play. So the overall offense could improve or decline as far as volume. I am still not sure about that yet.
As far as my personal perspective the main time I have seen Cohen is against the Vikings and well, he doesn't do much in those games. Most teams do not have the defensive personnel or coaching that the Vikings do though. It is actually Howard who has done very well against them, not Cohen. Zimmer takes the tricks away and maybe it is just that the Vikings are such a good tackling team, that short gains don't become explosive ones as often.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Bears are a tough projection this year. Personally, I think they come in almost identical to last year (with slight regression on the defensive side and slight progression on the offensive side). I don't expect much change in Tarik Cohen either. I agree that the first 8 games are a tough stretch. The Bears may be trailing more this year. But Cohen's usage will increase if the Bears are behind (generally). The Bears may need to score more in general.
And as a Bears fan, all I can think is that this may be a year to watch out for the Lions. They always do well when everyone thinks they will suck, and suck when people think they are going to be great. This is a year no one is looking for them. Which scares me.
And as a Bears fan, all I can think is that this may be a year to watch out for the Lions. They always do well when everyone thinks they will suck, and suck when people think they are going to be great. This is a year no one is looking for them. Which scares me.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That seems like a possible outcome where the Bears offense stays pretty much the same. They make progress but its a wash due to stiffer competition.
There is still the issue as far as targets for Davis and Montgomery being higher than they were for Howard and Cunningham. I can see them combine for 60 or more this season and if those will mostly come from Cohens part of the pie I think.
I suppose Gabriel could play less and Cohen more? But Gabriel led all skill players in snaps played.
No way Montgomery only has 26 targets imo.
There is still the issue as far as targets for Davis and Montgomery being higher than they were for Howard and Cunningham. I can see them combine for 60 or more this season and if those will mostly come from Cohens part of the pie I think.
I suppose Gabriel could play less and Cohen more? But Gabriel led all skill players in snaps played.
No way Montgomery only has 26 targets imo.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I hear you. And I agree there will likely be more targets for Montgomery. But not too many more and those could also come from previous inside run attempts for Howard. I think the Bears are set up to use the backs out of the backfield consistently regardless of who is in the game for the first time I can remember. That is a change from last year too. The real question is how will the short game be affected by the changes?
Personally, I think it is a full blown RB-by-committee. My guess is we see Montgomery primarily in the red zone initially, Davis subbing for both Cohen and Montgomery between the 20s (when the matchups or fatigue dictate) and Cohen in basically the same role; fantasywise inconsistent performer with a high ceiling, from a player perspective tipping off man or zone coverage for Trubisky. I think Montgomery's fantasy value early in his career will likely come from his ability to make people miss/break tackles in limited space in the red zone. The Bears NEED him there. IMO He will probably score the most TDs of the Chicago RBs. But I can't see Cohens role changing (or receptions changing dramatically) because of that. If no other reason, because of how Nagy uses him. Just my opinion.
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nirad3
Footballguy
Bears fan here. Been a fan of Montgomery for a couple years now; drafted him in a devy league and was ELATED to see him go to my Bears.
Cohen is a nice gadget player but Montgomery has both the running and receiving chops to be the lead back here.
Not that the Bears will ever have the offensive firepower of the Chiefs, but for comparison's sake, I can see Montgomery being the "Kareem Hunt" of this offense, while Cohen takes more of the "Tyreek Hill" looks. Now, Hill is a WR and Cohen is a RB... so the comparison isn't exactly apples to apples.
Montgomery is truly NFL-ready and while he may lack the breakaway speed to put up Barkley-like numbers... there will be opportunities for him to succeed, and especially in the Nagy offense where pass-catching is a huge bonus. The reason Howard is gone was because he wasn't an accomplished pass-catcher. Montgomery is. I'm not worried about Cohen. He will get his touches... and they won't necessarily be touches that Montgomery would have gotten in the first place. Both RBs can be more than fantasy-relevant.
Go Bears.
Cohen is a nice gadget player but Montgomery has both the running and receiving chops to be the lead back here.
Not that the Bears will ever have the offensive firepower of the Chiefs, but for comparison's sake, I can see Montgomery being the "Kareem Hunt" of this offense, while Cohen takes more of the "Tyreek Hill" looks. Now, Hill is a WR and Cohen is a RB... so the comparison isn't exactly apples to apples.
Montgomery is truly NFL-ready and while he may lack the breakaway speed to put up Barkley-like numbers... there will be opportunities for him to succeed, and especially in the Nagy offense where pass-catching is a huge bonus. The reason Howard is gone was because he wasn't an accomplished pass-catcher. Montgomery is. I'm not worried about Cohen. He will get his touches... and they won't necessarily be touches that Montgomery would have gotten in the first place. Both RBs can be more than fantasy-relevant.
Go Bears.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Cohen is a COP nothing more nothing less.decent flex player at best. not an every week starter. too inconsistent
he's a lesser James White and that's not very good
he's a lesser James White and that's not very good
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Cohen’s the same guy Nagy didn’t use in the playoffs vs the eagles despite the fact his offense couldn’t move the ball, and we expect him to take a significant amount of touches away from Montgomery?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I was thinking about another scenario where the Bears throw more than last season and perhaps those 60 targets I was talking about comes with fewer overall rushing attempts from all the RB.Hairy Snowman said:
I appreciate the discussion.
The Bears were very balanced as far as run/pass ratio last year and maybe this will be more 60/40 now due to personnel changes, Trubisky growing, and a more difficult schedule causing fewer leads, thus more passing.
In this scenario I would project perhaps 20 fewer runs for Cohen and Mongomery getting 220 rushing attempts with Davis getting 30 or so.
Montgomery and Davis being better pass options means less need to use Cohen for his run/pass versitilty and more as a receiver, thus not being in position for the part of the RPOs.
To counter that I would say it’s pretty silly to look at one specific game and project a season’s worth of usage. Especially a playoff game.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I agree. Especially against a team that the Bears historically struggle against. I think the Fog Bowl may have been the last time they beat the Eagles.
I agree up to Montgomery getting 220 carries. I think that is little too much for a rookie. But I am close. I would put a ceiling at 200. I expect him to come on with a bigger role later in the year as the Bears head towards the playoffs.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
is it more silly to ignore the data we have at hand or to take it into consideration?
since not using cohen in their most important game of the season when they couldn't move the ball on offense, they traded up in the draft (when they were already short on picks) to draft a do it all rb. they have since talked up montgomery's receiving ability and how they will be less predictable with him on the field.
i think if you look at everything in totality the bears are telling us what they want to do. whether it plays out that way remains to be seen
