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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020?


How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?  

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Brad Heath Retweeted Lawrence Hurley @lawrencehurley BREAKING: Supreme Court rejects Texas-led effort to toss out election results in four key states that Biden won 6:31 PM · Dec 1

Here's the problem with that position (from my point of view, and I venture to guess the point of view of everyone that is not a supporter of Donald Trump and/or the GOP currently) (and I truly don't

There were no Tesla counties for Edison to rename. 

What's more reasonable. Trump who lost the popular vote in 2016 by 3 million, was below 50% popularly his entire presidency, was denied a 10 million more votes win over Biden because of massive voter fraud in multiple states. Or states know as part of what was called the Blue Wall returned to the Blue Wall. Arizona following other western states forming a second Blue Wall in the west.

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18 minutes ago, Mile High said:

STATEMENT FROM DOMINION ON SIDNEY POWELL'S CHARGES.

https://www.dominionvoting.com/dominion-statement-on-sidney-powell-charges/

Quote

In Powell's error-filled document,

Sheesh

Quote

Sidney Powell's wild and reckless allegations are not only demonstrably false, they have led to stalking, harassment, and death threats to Dominion employees. This criminal activity has been duly reported to the appropriate law enforcement agencies, and we intend to hold Ms. Powell, and those aiding and abetting her fraudulent actions, accountable for any harm that may occur as a result.

Good. 

 

Speaking of Sidney Powell...

Georgia Republican Official Named as Plaintiff by Sidney Powell Never Agreed to Take Part in Lawsuit

Edited by 2Squirrels1Nut
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19 minutes ago, Mile High said:

STATEMENT FROM DOMINION ON SIDNEY POWELL'S CHARGES.

https://www.dominionvoting.com/dominion-statement-on-sidney-powell-charges/

Pretty strong statement, with this as a capstone - 

Sidney Powell's wild and reckless allegations are not only demonstrably false, they have led to stalking, harassment, and death threats to Dominion employees. This criminal activity has been duly reported to the appropriate law enforcement agencies, and we intend to hold Ms. Powell, and those aiding and abetting her fraudulent actions, accountable for any harm that may occur as a result.

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Just now, Steve Tasker said:

Pretty strong statement, with this as a capstone - 

Sidney Powell's wild and reckless allegations are not only demonstrably false, they have led to stalking, harassment, and death threats to Dominion employees. This criminal activity has been duly reported to the appropriate law enforcement agencies, and we intend to hold Ms. Powell, and those aiding and abetting her fraudulent actions, accountable for any harm that may occur as a result.

Was just adding that part to my post. 

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30 minutes ago, Capella said:

More winning in PA today

:thumbup:         https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QdKkXYAIisrq?format=png&name=large
                  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QrjYXcAI9ut_?format=jpg&name=medium

ETA- Bibas is a Trump appointee. The other two judges on the panel are Bush picks.

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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42 minutes ago, Capella said:

More winning in PA today

 

30 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

:thumbup:         https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QdKkXYAIisrq?format=png&name=large
                  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QrjYXcAI9ut_?format=jpg&name=medium

ETA- Bibas is a Trump appointee. The other two judges on the panel are Bush picks.

"Calling an election unfair does not make it so," the opinion read. "Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/11/27/trump-loses-appeal-of-pennsylvania-election-case.html

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32 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

Kind of starting to maybe think this Sidney Powell isn't quite the Terminator people claimed she was.  

 

:confused: Didn't most everyone here dismiss her from the start?

Who are these "people" who claimed she was the "Terminator"?

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

:confused: Didn't most everyone here dismiss her from the start?

Who are these "people" who claimed she was the "Terminator"?

I"m not speaking specifically on people here as there doesnt seem to be many in league with the idea of pushing this "election fraud" mantra as far as the administration has.....but if you peruse the bigger Right Wing websites; Powell was described as a relentless, no nonsense, unyielding lawyer. I'm assuming some of that had to do with her involvement in the Charga trial 40+ years ago....but she didn't really start to become a darling of the Right until her involvement in Flynn's case in 2019.

Anecdotally, from several Trump leaning friends....they saw her as the one who was going to end this nonsense that got Biden unjustly elected.  So far, she hasn't lived up to her hype.  

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Just now, Thunderlips said:

I"m not speaking specifically on people here as there doesnt seem to be many in league with the idea of pushing this "election fraud" mantra as far as the administration has.....but if you peruse the bigger Right Wing websites; Powell was described as relentless, no nonsense, unyielding lawyer. I'm assuming some of that had to do with her involvement in the Charga trial 40+ years ago....but she didn't really start to become a darling of the Right until her involvement in Flynn's case in 2019.

Anecdotally, from several Trump leaning friends....they saw her as the one who was going to end this nonsense that got Biden unjustly elected.  So far, she hasn't lived up to her hype.  

There were a few touting her reputation here as well.  Those that would be inclined to believe there was fraud in the election.

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46 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

I"m not speaking specifically on people here as there doesnt seem to be many in league with the idea of pushing this "election fraud" mantra as far as the administration has.....but if you peruse the bigger Right Wing websites; Powell was described as a relentless, no nonsense, unyielding lawyer. I'm assuming some of that had to do with her involvement in the Charga trial 40+ years ago....but she didn't really start to become a darling of the Right until her involvement in Flynn's case in 2019.

Anecdotally, from several Trump leaning friends....they saw her as the one who was going to end this nonsense that got Biden unjustly elected.  So far, she hasn't lived up to her hype.  

I didn't see any of that. But I admittedly don't spend much time on bigger right wing websites. 

Definitely didn't see anything significant here. Saw way more laughing at her from the start. Although I'm sure it wasn't unanimous. Just seemed like an odd thing to victory lap.

 

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I didn't see any of that. But I admittedly don't spend much time on bigger right wing websites. 

Definitely didn't see anything significant here. Saw way more laughing at her from the start. Although I'm sure it wasn't unanimous. Just seemed like an odd thing to victory lap.

It seems like even YOU have a hard time fitting into your own Political forum.  And you're reasonable and level-headed.

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11 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I didn't see any of that. But I admittedly don't spend much time on bigger right wing websites. 

Definitely didn't see anything significant here. Saw way more laughing at her from the start. Although I'm sure it wasn't unanimous. Just seemed like an odd thing to victory lap.

 

Can't be a victory lap until the thing is over.  I'm just saying she isn't nearly as impressive as the comments that I've heard about her made her out to be. 

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10 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

It seems like even YOU have a hard time fitting into your own Political forum.  And you're reasonable and level-headed.

LOL. Just seemed odd to me.

It would be like posting in a Patriots forum that Adam Gase isn't the offensive genius some people thought. 

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29 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

LOL. Just seemed odd to me.

It would be like posting in a Patriots forum that Adam Gase isn't the offensive genius some people thought. 

That would be a good analogy if before that.....a few Jets fans tromped into the Pats forum, proclaimed Gase an offensive genius, claimed Gase and the Jets would single-handedly end the Pats dynasty.....during the 4th quarter of a Pats blowout Super Bowl victory.

Either way, it certainly caps off a very strange election during an even more unusual year.

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

That would be a good analogy if before that.....a few Jets fans tromped into the Pats forum, proclaimed Gase an offensive genius, claimed Gase and the Jets would single-handedly end the Pats dynasty......in the 4th quarter of a Pats blowout Super Bowl victory.

Either way, it certainly caps off a very strange election during an even more unusual year.

I suppose there may have been people here proclaiming Powell to be the savior. I didn't see them.

But even if they had, or if there had been a few Jets fans in the Patriots forum, it would be pretty odd for the Patriot fans to victory lap on a tiny fraction of the forum. And that's saying something as Pats fans victory lap most everything. 

And I don't see it as strange at all. No more strange than most everyone accepts Gase isn't an offensive genius. 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

:confused: Didn't most everyone here dismiss her from the start?

Who are these "people" who claimed she was the "Terminator"?

I don't recall the specific word "Terminator" being used, but President Trump said she was "GREAT" (link and link) and her co-counsel compared her to a Greek god (link).

 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

:confused: Didn't most everyone here dismiss her from the start?

Who are these "people" who claimed she was the "Terminator"?

I think she had an air of gravitas behind her prior to the past week or so.  There were comments here indicating she was the one serious member of the legal team and she sure sounded confident.  She is an actual litigator, unlike Rudy and Jenna Ellis. She is a former federal prosecutor, so presumably knows her way around the courtroom, and she represented Flynn.  When she started talking about the Kracken and her "biblical lawsuit" in the past week, I think that took the shine off a bit because no serious lawyer would speak like that, but I was honestly wondering what she was planning and am strangely disappointed to see its nothing but more low-rent garbage. She's not been involved in any of these lawsuits yet, and I guess I thought maybe she would bring something different to the table. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I suppose there may have been people here proclaiming Powell to be the savior. I didn't see them.

But even if they had, or if there had been a few Jets fans in the Patriots forum, it would be pretty odd for the Patriot fans to victory lap on a tiny fraction of the forum. And that's saying something as Pats fans victory lap most everything. 

And I don't see it as strange at all. No more strange than most everyone accepts Gase isn't an offensive genius. 

Very fair.  I’m hopeful that we can all move on with life one of these days.

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6 hours ago, Mystery Achiever said:

:thumbup:         https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QdKkXYAIisrq?format=png&name=large
                  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2QrjYXcAI9ut_?format=jpg&name=medium

ETA- Bibas is a Trump appointee. The other two judges on the panel are Bush picks.

This guy Bibas is a refreshingly good writer.  His opinion is conversational and I think easily accessible to the reader, not hung up on legal writing formalities or even proper grammar in some places.  https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Trump.pdf

 

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45 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I suppose there may have been people here proclaiming Powell to be the savior. I didn't see them.. 

They were few in number in this forum, but they were vociferous.

Using specific words like “the savior” leaves enough wiggle room to back out of some unfortunate takes. No one actually said Powell was “the savior”. Still, they said plenty.

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21 minutes ago, Doug B said:

They were few in number in this forum, but they were vociferous.

Using specific words like “the savior” leaves enough wiggle room to back out of some unfortunate takes. No one actually said Powell was “the savior”. Still, they said plenty.

Still seems odd to victory lap :lmao: when they're such the tiny minority. But I get it.

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Milwaukee County has completed the recount which was requested and paid for by the Trump campaign. The updated tally shows a gain of 132 votes for Joe Biden, which I suppose Trump can now exploit as fuel for his narrative about elections being untrustworthy? 🤷‍♂️

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16 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Still seems odd to victory lap :lmao: when they're such the tiny minority. But I get it.

The certitude of the takes in the face of known (?) poor odds was much more impactful than the raw number of takes.

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

The certitude of the takes in the face of known (?) poor odds was much more impactful than the raw number of takes.

Still just seems odd. Although I guess it's really not. I should have expected as much.

Thinking more, there probably are people in the Patriots forums around the country still making sure the handful of people who ever said Gase would be good are hearing it.  

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38 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Milwaukee County has completed the recount which was requested and paid for by the Trump campaign. The updated tally shows a gain of 132 votes for Joe Biden, which I suppose Trump can now exploit as fuel for his narrative about elections being untrustworthy? 🤷‍♂️

Do people around here know the difference between a recount and an audit?

now I don't think this thing with Trump is going anywhere and I fully expect Biden to be the next president, but we have a lot of snark around here about recounts and " see I told you so! ".

What we need are audits And I think maybe that's where we might find some real problems.

Edited by BladeRunner
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9 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Do people around here know the difference between a recount and an audit?

now I don't think this thing with Trump is going anywhere and I fully expect Biden to be the next president, but we have a lot of snark around here about recounts and " see I told you so! ".

What we need are audits And I think maybe that's where we might find some real problems.

Do you have a link describing what an audit is (says the former auditor)?

What real problems are you envisioning?  Or just another moving of the goalposts?

There is no smoke...there is literally zero evidence of any mass fraud.

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2 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Do people around here know the difference between a recount and an audit?

now I don't think this thing with Trump is going anywhere and I fully expect Biden to be the next president, but we have a lot of snark around here about recounts and " see I told you so! ".

What we need are audits And I think maybe that's where we might find some real problems.

Georgia performed an audit which the Trump campaign dismissed and requested a recount. :shrug:
 

https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-georgia-audit-or-recount-9adf1d0ed50f8788572b4f7e0f04027e
 

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/georgias-audit-vs-recount-heres-difference/RGQOM6CCJJCQHGCTIXTFACJUVY/

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4 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

Well there you go.

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So, 45 pages in, and we're still around zero cases of documented voter fraud in the 2020 Presidential election.

To argue there's rampant voter fraud at this point is either an intentional misrepresentation of facts or ignorance.

At a minimum, it's time to take the usual partisan hackery and political arguing to other threads.  There are plenty of real debates to be had...this ain't one of them.

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37 minutes ago, trader jake said:

So, 45 pages in, and we're still around zero cases of documented voter fraud in the 2020 Presidential election.

To argue there's rampant voter fraud at this point is either an intentional misrepresentation of facts or ignorance.

At a minimum, it's time to take the usual partisan hackery and political arguing to other threads.  There are plenty of real debates to be had...this ain't one of them.

Yup.  We’ve all been waiting for a single piece of evidence of fraud.  So far all we’ve had are one-off examples of Republicans trying to vote using someone else’s name.

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38 minutes ago, trader jake said:

So, 45 pages in, and we're still around zero cases of documented voter fraud in the 2020 Presidential election.

To argue there's rampant voter fraud at this point is either an intentional misrepresentation of facts or ignorance.

At a minimum, it's time to take the usual partisan hackery and political arguing to other threads.  There are plenty of real debates to be had...this ain't one of them.

Completely agree. All the people arguing there was rampant voter fraud should step up and throw in the towel. All of them. Every single one.

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4 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

This guy Bibas is a refreshingly good writer.  His opinion is conversational and I think easily accessible to the reader, not hung up on legal writing formalities or even proper grammar in some places.  https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Trump.pdf

Yes, that seems to have been a good appointment -- it can go in the "stuff Trump can take credit for" thread.

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6 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

It’s entirely possible I’m missing something with this but in their effort to be able to appoint their own electors (which at this point they legally can’t) they are looking to have the results of this election declared in dispute and to have the governor withdraw the certification (the certification which has already occurred). In doing so, that would also withdraw the certification of the legislatures election results as well meaning they technically wouldn’t have the power to put forth the resolution to begin with since they themselves then wouldn’t have been certified. 

The other important thing about this is it isn’t the state legislature leadership trying to put forth this resolution (or agreed to it) so not sure how much support for this there really is (Mastriano being a junior state senator). 

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8 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Completely agree. All the people arguing there was rampant voter fraud should step up and throw in the towel. All of them. Every single one.

What about their credibility and role in politics in the future? Should these people who actively tried to undermine our elections be held accountable, and if so, how?

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7 hours ago, Witz said:

It’s entirely possible I’m missing something with this but in their effort to be able to appoint their own electors (which at this point they legally can’t) they are looking to have the results of this election declared in dispute and to have the governor withdraw the certification (the certification which has already occurred). In doing so, that would also withdraw the certification of the legislatures election results as well meaning they technically wouldn’t have the power to put forth the resolution to begin with since they themselves then wouldn’t have been certified. 

The other important thing about this is it isn’t the state legislature leadership trying to put forth this resolution (or agreed to it) so not sure how much support for this there really is (Mastriano being a junior state senator). 

But he's spent two whole hours online working on it! I mean, that's almost as much time as I spend trying to decide what free agent to pick up for my pretend football team each week in a league with no prize money. (Of course, to be fair, that's probably more time than he's spent on any issue during his term in office.) And half of the leaders of the legislature favor it.  Since there are two leaders (one in the House and one in the Senate), that means at least one of the two Republicans in charge agree with him. What more could we want?

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20 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:
8 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Completely agree. All the people arguing there was rampant voter fraud should step up and throw in the towel. All of them. Every single one.

What about their credibility and role in politics in the future? Should these people who actively tried to undermine our elections be held accountable, and if so, how?

Who? The statement I was agreeing to referred to people in this thread. I thought it was clear I was calling out the straw man.

If you're looking for a wider witch hunt, you're asking the wrong man. To begin with, I'm not a fan of the whole "we must get Trump AND HIS SUPPORTERS" call to arms I see from time to time on the left. And furthermore, I disagree with the premise of you're second question. Anyone trying to "actively undermine" our elections should be held accountable to be sure - but I don't think requesting we look into reports of fraud or irregularities does that. I also believe calling for audits and recounts when it's warranted supports election integrity, not undermines it.

I'd started a thread on the recounts and legal challenges but it was deleted by the mods so I don't want to go into it them too much and risk another timeout. Do you have any examples of people you consider "actively undermining our elections"? And what would you like done to them?

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6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Its a straw man now that people have claimed massive fraud? 

Yes.

I'm surprised you're not providing a link since you frequently request one. Remember, we're talking about this 25 page thread so you can just quote them.

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