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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)

I identify mostly Independent: Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Rep

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ekbeats said:
I disagree, though I have to concede that the polls are probably not on my side. Someone said earlier that my "gut feeling" was about as good as one of Tim's gut feelings, and truth be told that comment really bothered me, in part because it is right.  I am all about facts and polls, always have been.  But there are some times where one's gut feel takes precedence.  In 2016 when everyone thought Trump had no chance of winning, I was one of the few people who thought the opposite.  I was pretty much convinced that Trump would win the election, and I told anyone who would listen.  Instincts?  Maybe.  Sometimes instincts are extremely informative.  I really do think that a lot of Republicans view Trump as not fit for office.  1/6 changed things for me, and I have to believe that it also changed things for most people like me - educated voters who really are concerned about the future of the country.

I 100% acknowledge I could be wrong, because as I've said already the polls would indicate that Trump will win the nom.  But I don't believe the polls. Just like I didn't believe the polls in 2016.  That and $2.50 will get you a cup of soup.  Here's what I am holding onto... Throughout history whenever America has been in crisis there has been a leader to emerge that has saved the Republic.  I believe that leader is Nikki Haley.  Maybe it's because I want to believe it.  Who knows.  But Nikki Haley has always struck me as someone who has potential to be a transformational leader.  I've been following her pretty closely for the last 10 years, and if she plays he cards right she has a legitimate chance to be the type of person that changes the course of history.
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Please post more. 

 
ekbeats said:
I disagree, though I have to concede that the polls are probably not on my side. Someone said earlier that my "gut feeling" was about as good as one of Tim's gut feelings, and truth be told that comment really bothered me, in part because it is right.  I am all about facts and polls, always have been.  But there are some times where one's gut feel takes precedence.  In 2016 when everyone thought Trump had no chance of winning, I was one of the few people who thought the opposite.  I was pretty much convinced that Trump would win the election, and I told anyone who would listen.  Instincts?  Maybe.  Sometimes instincts are extremely informative.  I really do think that a lot of Republicans view Trump as not fit for office.  1/6 changed things for me, and I have to believe that it also changed things for most people like me - educated voters who really are concerned about the future of the country.

I 100% acknowledge I could be wrong, because as I've said already the polls would indicate that Trump will win the nom.  But I don't believe the polls. Just like I didn't believe the polls in 2016.  That and $2.50 will get you a cup of soup.  Here's what I am holding onto... Throughout history whenever America has been in crisis there has been a leader to emerge that has saved the Republic.  I believe that leader is Nikki Haley.  Maybe it's because I want to believe it.  Who knows.  But Nikki Haley has always struck me as someone who has potential to be a transformational leader.  I've been following her pretty closely for the last 10 years, and if she plays he cards right she has a legitimate chance to be the type of person that changes the course of history.
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I want you to be right, but i think Trump runs, gets 40% of the primary votes and gets almost every state, despite the fact the majority of Republicans don't want him as the R nominee.  His base is strong and will turn out for him. 

I think the bigger question is whether Joe Biden runs again and if not, who will be the Dem nominee.

Finally, why can't we have people under 70 years old be President?  Boomers...

 
RavenFan said:
You sure about that?  3/4 of Rs want him to be the nominee in '24.  Many many Republican leaders have treked to kiss his ring.  Many many republicans have been essentially thrown out of the party for not accepting the Big Lie.

You sure our head space is the only space Trump owns?

lol
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Just wait till Hillary is nominee of Dems.

 
KarmaPolice said:
I voted "mostly agree" after thinking about it.   As worded, I think the question is phrased too strongly.   I don't think he "controls" the party or that people "must" yield to him.   But as another poster stated, the amount of influence he still has is at an uncomfortable level from where I sit.  
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This. I didn't vote for that reason.  

 
The Z Machine said:
I want you to be right, but i think Trump runs, gets 40% of the primary votes and gets almost every state, despite the fact the majority of Republicans don't want him as the R nominee.  His base is strong and will turn out for him. 

I think the bigger question is whether Joe Biden runs again and if not, who will be the Dem nominee.

Finally, why can't we have people under 70 years old be President?  Boomers...
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  Hey!!!! 

;)

 
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What I find amusing is the thought that the Dems should just ignore the odds on favorite to win the GOP nomination. Kinda like expecting the rest of the NFC playoff teams to ignore the Green Bay Packers.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
What I find amusing is the thought that the Dems should just ignore the odds on favorite to win the GOP nomination. Kinda like expecting the rest of the NFC playoff teams to ignore the Green Bay Packers.
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Exactly.  It's amusing seeing people on that side of the aisle try to play down the fact that he's the front runner in polls and for Vegas.   Not sure the reason for that besides the "he's getting free rent in your head" shtick.   We can debate over how much "control" he has over the party, but it's an odd take to claim he's not the current frontrunner.  

 
GoBirds said:
You mistakenly used “country” instead of “liberal subforum”. 
 

AOC and the squad are the faces and future for you, good luck with that. 
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Should I have used Republican Party since 75% of Republicans want Trump to be the nominee?

And just lol at liberal subforum.  Anti-Trump subforum, sure.

But hey, just go back to reading your favorite news sources like gateway pundit and conservative treehouse.  Oh, and make sure to donate to your leader's Stop The Steal campaign.

AOC and the Squad are the faces of the Democratic party?  I couldn't even name anyone in the squad beyond AOC.

 
Stoneworker said:
Overrated. In here, in the MSM and in real life. He's just in your heads.

If Trump was so omnipotent...then no way would 19 GOP Senators vote and pass a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill.

The 19 Republicans who voted for the bill, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., did so despite pressure from former President Donald Trump to deny Democrats a victory. Trump released a statement that called the bill "the beginning of the Green New Deal."

Republican negotiators, including Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, dismissed that criticism and promoted the agreement as a huge breakthrough for the Senate.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/10/1026081880/senate-passes-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill
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Those Senators have something to go back to their constituents with -- like they know they should have the 4 years previous and it didn't get done. Benefits of bill >>>allegiance to Trump.   Too bad there can't be more of that --

 
RavenFan said:
Should I have used Republican Party since 75% of Republicans want Trump to be the nominee?

And just lol at liberal subforum.  Anti-Trump subforum, sure.

But hey, just go back to reading your favorite news sources like gateway pundit and conservative treehouse.  Oh, and make sure to donate to your leader's Stop The Steal campaign.

AOC and the Squad are the faces of the Democratic party?  I couldn't even name anyone in the squad beyond AOC.
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You keep quoting 75% as if it's fact.  IT's not.  It's a made up number in your head to confirm your bias.

Tomorrow it will be 80%.   The next day you'll have it at 85%.  By the end of the week I fully expect you and your cohorts in here to have it 100%.  Gotta' amp it up because running on the Biden's record is a non-starter.

And as far as NOT knowing who the squad is?  You're not fooling anyone.  It's the future of the Democrat Party - it moves further left every election.  Better get used to it.  :shrug:

 
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BladeRunner said:
You keep quoting 75% as if it's fact.  IT's not.  It's a made up number in your head to confirm your bias.

Tomorrow it will be 80%.   The next day you'll have it at 85%.  By the end of the week I fully expect you and your cohorts in here to have it 100%.  Gotta' amp it up because running on the Biden's record is a non-starter.

And as far as NOT knowing who the squad is?  You're not fooling anyone.  It's the future of the Democrat Party - it moves further left every election.  Better get used to it.  :shrug:
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Oh my bad you're right, it's only 67%, bigly mistake by me.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-majority-of-republican-voters-actively-want-trump-to-run-for-president-again/

And let me guess, the Squad with ZERO bills passed and ZERO actual power will usher in an era of communism the likes the world has never seen.  Just like all of us radical leftist want, right?

You can keep believing whatever fantasy about the future of the democratic party that you want.  The truth about the Republican party here and now is that it's run by, for, and through Trump.  No one else has any power as long as he's the complete focal point of the party and it continue to be subservient to him.

I've voted Republican many times in my life and it saddens me to see it run off the rails so thoroughly due to the complete adulation of one man.  Hopefully things change over the next few years for both parties and the radicals fade away and the middle folks like Mitt and Joe sway policy. 

 
crackattack said:
I think he controls about 30%. His diehard base. That's it imo. 
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I suspect you're right. But 30% is more than enough, right? 

Words like "controls" or "owns" may be too strong, but a very loyal following of 30% of a Party is quite large. Unless somebody else can figure out how to get to 31%, he's going to have some major influence. Maybe it happens in the next couple of years, but the path to that is certainly not clear. 

 
pollardsvision said:
I suspect you're right. But 30% is more than enough, right? 

Words like "controls" or "owns" may be too strong, but a very loyal following of 30% of a Party is quite large. Unless somebody else can figure out how to get to 31%, he's going to have some major influence. Maybe it happens in the next couple of years, but the path to that is certainly not clear. 
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In a primary?  easily...especially if there are 3-4 other people running.

 
pollardsvision said:
I suspect you're right. But 30% is more than enough, right? 

Words like "controls" or "owns" may be too strong, but a very loyal following of 30% of a Party is quite large. Unless somebody else can figure out how to get to 31%, he's going to have some major influence. Maybe it happens in the next couple of years, but the path to that is certainly not clear. 
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And 30-35% is about the same percentage of loyal followers that Progressives/Socialists have in the Democratic Party.

And those people evoke an equally visceral reaction from conservatives.

So really this whole thread is much ado about nothing...except yet another oppty for the forum to unload their emotional anti-Trump tirades.

 
Stoneworker said:
And 30-35% is about the same percentage of loyal followers that Progressives/Socialists have in the Democratic Party.

And those people evoke an equally visceral reaction from conservatives.

So really this whole thread is much ado about nothing...except yet another oppty for the forum to unload their emotional anti-Trump tirades.
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:goodposting:

Its what this place was built on, why stop now? Could be Trump or anyone, no one will cross the aisle for the Progressive/Socialist agenda they are pushing. Blaming everything on Trump just let’s them avoid that topic. 

 
GoBirds said:
:goodposting:

Its what this place was built on, why stop now? Could be Trump or anyone, no one will cross the aisle for the Progressive/Socialist agenda they are pushing. Blaming everything on Trump just let’s them avoid that topic. 
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A common danger unites even the bitterest enemies.  -Aristotle

 
Stoneworker said:
And 30-35% is about the same percentage of loyal followers that Progressives/Socialists have in the Democratic Party.

And those people evoke an equally visceral reaction from conservatives.

So really this whole thread is much ado about nothing...except yet another oppty for the forum to unload their emotional anti-Trump tirades.
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There’s not a single progressive who has anywhere near the influence that Trump has. It’s a collective versus one guy. Bernie perhaps approaches from the fanatical component of his folks but he doesn’t carry anywhere close the influence on the party as Don does the. Republicans.

This next election we’ll see if his influence has diminished. 

 
The General said:
There’s not a single progressive who has anywhere near the influence that Trump has. It’s a collective versus one guy. Bernie perhaps approaches from the fanatical component of his folks but he doesn’t carry anywhere close the influence on the party as Don does the. Republicans.

This next election we’ll see if his influence has diminished. 
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So? This disproves nothing I've said, especially the fact that the bipartisan bill was approved against Trump's stated directions.

And even if what you say is true...then one guy vs. a collective only make it easier to focus and amplify the vitriol.

Which is why anti-Trump rhetoric is the Lombardi power sweep of the Democratic political playbook.

 
Stoneworker said:
So? This disproves nothing I've said, especially the fact that the bipartisan bill was approved against Trump's stated directions.

And even if what you say is true...then one guy vs. a collective only make it easier to focus and amplify the vitriol.

Which is why anti-Trump rhetoric is the Lombardi power sweep of the Democratic political playbook.
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When a single person assembles thousands of people on fairy tales who then attack the Capitol it makes it easy to focus on them. 

When that person is still held in any regard it is eyebrow raising.

The proof will be in the midterms. We’ll see how many have to grovel for his attention.

 
The General said:
When a single person assembles thousands of people on fairy tales who then attack the Capitol it makes it easy to focus on them. 

When that person is still held in any regard it is eyebrow raising.

The proof will be in the midterms. We’ll see how many have to grovel for his attention.
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This is all just irrelevant editorial commentary.

Does nothing to address the OP's hypothesis that Trump controls the Republican party and they must yield to him.

 
Stoneworker said:
This is all just irrelevant editorial commentary.

Does nothing to address the OP's hypothesis that Trump controls the Republican party and they must yield to him.
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Was has happened to Rs who voted to impeach him?

Do you consider Liz Cheney to be a RINO?  She's got one of the most conservative voting records in congress...BUT she had the audacity to say that Trump lost the election and voted to impeach him.  OUT of the party she goes.

You guys don't seriously believe what you're typing do you?  If you really think Trump doesn't completely control the Republican party I kind of feel bad for you.

 
RavenFan said:
Was has happened to Rs who voted to impeach him?

Do you consider Liz Cheney to be a RINO?  She's got one of the most conservative voting records in congress...BUT she had the audacity to say that Trump lost the election and voted to impeach him.  OUT of the party she goes.

You guys don't seriously believe what you're typing do you?  If you really think Trump doesn't completely control the Republican party I kind of feel bad for you.
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Surely there is a better counter argument to make than, but socialists.  There are actual real examples of those who have crossed Trump losing power and influence.  He is the party still at the moment. He exerts that control often. 

 
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Stoneworker said:
This is all just irrelevant editorial commentary.

Does nothing to address the OP's hypothesis that Trump controls the Republican party and they must yield to him.
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That this occurred and he still has any place in the party, that this is even  question shows his influence.

Sounds like he has lost your vote.

 
RavenFan said:
Was has happened to Rs who voted to impeach him?

Do you consider Liz Cheney to be a RINO?  She's got one of the most conservative voting records in congress...BUT she had the audacity to say that Trump lost the election and voted to impeach him.  OUT of the party she goes.

You guys don't seriously believe what you're typing do you?  If you really think Trump doesn't completely control the Republican party I kind of feel bad for you.
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19 senators gift-wrapping Biden's only legislative victory in an otherwise pitiful first year proves beyond any doubt that the GOP is not completely controlled by Trump.

And yes, I seriously believe what I just typed.

 
The General said:
That this occurred and he still has any place in the party, that this is even  question shows his influence.

Sounds like he has lost your vote.
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Obama still has influence over the Dems. Nothing new for ex-presidents to have a significant number of disciples who carry on.

Have no idea what the second point is asking.

 
Stoneworker said:
19 senators gift-wrapping Biden's only legislative victory in an otherwise pitiful first year proves beyond any doubt that the GOP is not completely controlled by Trump.

And yes, I seriously believe what I just typed.
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So voting for a piece of good, bipartisan legislation to you is more important than multiple long term, well thought of, members of the party getting tossed out because they have the audacity to cross Trump?

I think that's a weird take but ok.  You realize that occasionally there is bipartisan legislation right?  Like criminal justice reform that Trump signed?

But remind me again when members were chucked out of the party for crossing ONE SINGLE MAN.  Just one example prior to Trump please.

And maybe you're in politics which is why you have to defend him so blindly?  god forbid he catches wind of anyone not be utterly subservient. 

 
Stoneworker said:
Obama still has influence over the Dems. Nothing new for ex-presidents to have a significant number of disciples who carry on.

Have no idea what the second point is asking.
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Right. Obama didn’t pull Don’s act and meltdown. If he did he’d did I’d expect him to be a political pariah. 

 
Stoneworker said:
Obama still has influence over the Dems. Nothing new for ex-presidents to have a significant number of disciples who carry on.

Have no idea what the second point is asking.
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How many dems were tossed from the party for going against Obama?

I'll hang up and listen. 

 
Leroy Hoard said:
What I find amusing is the thought that the Dems should just ignore the odds on favorite to win the GOP nomination. Kinda like expecting the rest of the NFC playoff teams to ignore the Green Bay Packers.
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They’re not running for super bowl champion. 

 
Stoneworker said:
So? This disproves nothing I've said, especially the fact that the bipartisan bill was approved against Trump's stated directions.

And even if what you say is true...then one guy vs. a collective only make it easier to focus and amplify the vitriol.

Which is why anti-Trump rhetoric is the Lombardi power sweep of the Democratic political playbook.
Click to expand...
You keep referring to the infrastructure bill as if the fact that some GOP senators actually did their job is somehow indicative that Trump doesn’t control political power in the party. It is not at all persuasive.  

How individual senators vote on bills is not instructive on whether Trump controls the reigns of leadership power and who will control the messaging for candidates come election time.  It is already happening now in dozens of house races for ‘22.  “I’m a good soldier” messaging.   Listen to the Liz Cheney Daily podcast episode for several examples.   

Let me know when any of the GOP senators who spoke out (Lindsey, Mitch, even house leader McC) find their spines and revert back to their original position on 1/6.  Or call out Trump’s continued attacks on the 2020 election in the absence of any evidence.  The control he has is embarrassing.  

Trump put a Ted Cruz collar on all of them and forced them to confirm themselves as power needy hypocrites in the weeks and months following 1/6.  

Trump controls the messaging, and we’re going to see that very clearly in the lead up to ‘24.   Name one (serious) person who has even hinted at running for the nomination?

If what constitutes a “serious person” could be agreed upon, I would bet money he runs unopposed.  
 

 
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RavenFan said:
Was has happened to Rs who voted to impeach him?

Do you consider Liz Cheney to be a RINO?  She's got one of the most conservative voting records in congress...BUT she had the audacity to say that Trump lost the election and voted to impeach him.  OUT of the party she goes.

You guys don't seriously believe what you're typing do you?  If you really think Trump doesn't completely control the Republican party I kind of feel bad for you.
Click to expand...


I think ANY ex-POTUS who doesn't want to go quietly to the front porch of political irrelevance will be the de facto leader of their Party until they decide they don't want to be.  Obama could step back into the the spotlight and become the face and engine of the DNC in about a minute and a half.  So to your point,  Trump is the face of the RNC until he doesn't want to be, the money dries up OR the politicans who are fine with him being the head (symbolically) Ceaser him.  

That being said, didnt Youngkin win in VA by NOT running towards Trump?  I know Jack Ciccarelli wasn't embracing Trump and he made the NJ race a photo finish. Donald Trump lost the popular in 16, his Party lost the House in 18 and him and his Party got handed a pretty significant defeat in 20.  If i were a liberal/Left leaning Democrat....I'd be more worried about the smoother guy behind Trump and be content to allow Trump to spew.  

 
Stoneworker said:
19 senators gift-wrapping Biden's only legislative victory in an otherwise pitiful first year proves beyond any doubt that the GOP is not completely controlled by Trump.

And yes, I seriously believe what I just typed.
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How does 19 Senators agreeing on one bill negate his influence?  

 
Jets05 said:
I think ANY ex-POTUS who doesn't want to go quietly to the front porch of political irrelevance will be the de facto leader of their Party until they decide they don't want to be.  Obama could step back into the the spotlight and become the face and engine of the DNC in about a minute and a half.  So to your point,  Trump is the face of the RNC until he doesn't want to be, the money dries up OR the politicans who are fine with him being the head (symbolically) Ceaser him.  

That being said, didnt Youngkin win in VA by NOT running towards Trump?  I know Jack Ciccarelli wasn't embracing Trump and he made the NJ race a photo finish. Donald Trump lost the popular in 16, his Party lost the House in 18 and him and his Party got handed a pretty significant defeat in 20.  If i were a liberal/Left leaning Democrat....I'd be more worried about the smoother guy behind Trump and be content to allow Trump to spew.  
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Front porch?  He’s running for president again.  

 
zoonation said:
You keep referring to the infrastructure bill as if the fact that some GOP senators actually did their job is somehow indicative that Trump doesn’t control political power in the party. It is not at all persuasive.  

How individual senators vote on bills is not instructive on whether Trump controls the reigns of leadership power and who will control the messaging for candidates come election time.  It is already happening now in dozens of house races for ‘22.  “I’m a good soldier” messaging.   Listen to the Liz Cheney Daily podcast episode for several examples.   

Let me know when any of the GOP senators who spoke out (Lindsey, Mitch, even house leader McC) find their spines and revert back to their original position on 1/6.  Or call out Trump’s continued attacks on the 2020 election in the absence of any evidence.  The control he has is embarrassing.  

Trump put a Ted Cruz collar on all of them and forced them to confirm themselves as power needy hypocrites in the weeks and months following 1/6.  

Trump controls the messaging, and we’re going to see that very clearly in the lead up to ‘24.   Name one (serious) person who has even hinted at running for the nomination?

If what constitutes a “serious person” could be agreed upon, I would bet money he runs unopposed.  
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That's fine. It is not at all persuasive to refer to a few podcast episodes as evidence of control.

Much more persuasive is actual votes put on record which are in defiance of a so-called "controller's" direct instructions and admonitions.

 
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