***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***

[snitwitch 893]

4 hours ago, Gopher State said:

 

Dems and Nancy want nothing to do with this.

 

 

they are going to have no choice 

[Biff84 2,612]

58 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I like how Rudy went on tv to deny and also to confirm the rumors.  Shows a lot of moxie. 

Best crisis manager in the business! He takes a crisis and manages to make it worse.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Biff84

[snitwitch 893]

interesting timeline here https://twitter.com/PortlusGlam/status/1174845234565603328?s=19

[Ramsay Hunt Experience 18,710]

3 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I like how Rudy went on tv to deny and also to confirm the rumors.  Shows a lot of moxie. 

"You're damn right, I ordered the Code Red!"

[Sinn Fein 32,994]

1 hour ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

"You're damn right, I ordered the Code Red!"

  I was thinking the same thing!

 

“So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?” CNN’s Chris Cuomo asked Giuliani in an interview on Thursday evening.

“Of course I did,” Giuliani shot back.

 

Jack Nicholson could play Giuliani in the movie...

[Dinsy Ejotuz 12,634]

Quote

Seth Masket @smotus

On the one hand you have a whistleblower saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election but on the other hand you have Trump’s lawyer saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election and I don’t know who to believe.

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Dinsy Ejotuz

[Juxtatarot 11,089]

I've been thinking about this.  If Trump actually believed Biden was involved in a corruption scandal and it couldn't be shown Trump was withholding funds to Ukraine for  political reelection reasons, doesn't he have an out?  Doesn't intent matter?

[The Commish 13,046]

Probably my favorite two tweets from this dope...it's the perfect encapsulation of his knowledge and complete lack in self awareness.  On top of all that, he spelled all the words correctly!

Quote

 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Another Fake News story out there - It never ends! Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. No problem!

@realDonaldTrump

....Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. I would only do what is right anyway, and only do good for the USA!

 

 

[timschochet 32,428]

6 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I've been thinking about this.  If Trump actually believed Biden was involved in a corruption scandal and it couldn't be shown Trump was withholding funds to Ukraine for  political reelection reasons, doesn't he have an out?  Doesn't intent matter?

As @Sinn Fein pointed out, everything depends on the phone call- IF there is a tape of the phone call, and IF Congress and the public get ahold of it. If there is no tape or if we never hear it, Trump will get away with this. 

If they go to court to get the tape, it could take a year or longer. The White House will no doubt fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Based on the unanimous decision against Nixon, Trump should lose this but you never know. In the meantime none of this is likely to be resolved prior to the election. 

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

16 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I've been thinking about this.  If Trump actually believed Biden was involved in a corruption scandal and it couldn't be shown Trump was withholding funds to Ukraine for  political reelection reasons, doesn't he have an out?  Doesn't intent matter?

Facts are already emerging that Trump, in part through Pence, defined Ukrainian corruption as equitable with Hunter and Joe Biden’s activities in Ukraine. He, in part through Pence, said it was hindering US relations and withheld $250m in military payments. He sent Giuliani who admits he pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden. What’s missing is the contents and evidence from the whistleblower. Appears on the face that money was released after an assurance that investigation would be conducted. How clearly was the quid pro quo communicated? The effect is clear. The language will be important. 

But we all know what happened here.

Per usual, Trump acts like a mob boss. He slyly conflates “corruption” with investigating and gathering dirt in his political opponent. He may never have breached that language, though his sentries knew exactly what he was referencing and Giuliani and Pence confirmed it publicly.

I hope Trump slipped and was more overt. I’m sure Trump expects that any scandal he can drum up will be amplified ad naseum by Russian bots for the next 15 months. None of this should be allowed to happen: the behavior, the complicity, the opacity, the Obstruction, the lag in our courts and Congress enforcing law.

Trump not only must go. He must be prosecuted, and we need a thousand new laws to plug the holes this rat has found and gnawed through.

[Sammy3469 10,144]

What’s to prevent the Ukraine from releasing the tapes on their side?  

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

8 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is a constitutional crisis.

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

Just now, Sammy3469 said:

What’s to prevent the Ukraine from releasing the tapes on their side?  

Is there a polonium tea emoji?

[IvanKaramazov 20,410]

8 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is a constitutional crisis.

No it isn't.  The constitution has a well-defined procedure for dealing with a president who is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.  Congress just refuses to do its job.

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

7 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No it isn't.  The constitution has a well-defined procedure for dealing with a president who is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.  Congress just refuses to do its job.

Yes, but that’s one aspect. DOJ running interference, Senate refusing to acknowledge truth, Supreme Court strategically stacked with partisans. There are headwinds. 

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

12 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No it isn't.  The constitution has a well-defined procedure for dealing with a president who is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.  Congress just refuses to do its job.

Constitutional crises arise from national constitution in any country being effectively neutralized. It’s a constitutional crisis for just that reason and really it’s been going on since Comey’s firing. The ineffectuality of the highest law is the point. You could rend it in two right now and it wouldn’t look any different.

Edited September 20, 2019 by SaintsInDome2006

[Insomniac 628]

10 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Transparent attempt to create a factory for Russian generated clickbait in run-up to election, which amounts to direct campaign interference with foreign assistance. Nail these ####ers to the wall.

Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV.  That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base. 

 

[Sinn Fein 32,994]

Talking points have been distributed:

 

Jack Kingston

@JackKingston

”Whistleblower” a likely disgruntled #obama deep stater on his way out the door. #PresidentTrump like all Presidents can declassify anything he was to. https://foxnews.com/politics/whistleblower-complaint-reportedly-on-trump-contact-with-foreign-leader-touches-off-dc-firestorm…

[ClownCausedChaos2 5,570]

12 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Zelensky

The Auto Parts King?

[Sinn Fein 32,994]

9 minutes ago, ClownCausedChaos2 said:

The Auto Parts King?

You're thinking of Zalinsky - americanized version of the name.

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

14 minutes ago, Insomniac said:

Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV.  That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base. 

 

I think there needs to be an article or impeachment drafted on this matter alone, and voted on, immediately. This will expedite Congress’s ability to get past the DOJ/DNI obstruction. We’re in a whole new world here. It is inherently corrupt to send emissaries from a campaign to negotiate with foreign leaders to begin with, and there is little ambiguity before the whistleblower’s contribution that Ukraine was extorted into interfering with a US election. This cannot be allowed to stand. It must be pursued with every tactic and power afforded by Congress. 

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

15 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Talking points have been distributed:

 

Jack Kingston

@JackKingston

”Whistleblower” a likely disgruntled #obama deep stater on his way out the door. #PresidentTrump like all Presidents can declassify anything he was to. https://foxnews.com/politics/whistleblower-complaint-reportedly-on-trump-contact-with-foreign-leader-touches-off-dc-firestorm…

But he can’t bribe or extort foreign leaders. 

[Sammy3469 10,144]

1 minute ago, Mr. Ham said:

But he can’t bribe or extort foreign leaders. 

He can do both if it’s for the benefit of the US, just not for his own personal benefit.  

[JuniorNB 7,258]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

 

Trump not only must go. He must be prosecuted, and we need a thousand new laws to plug the holes this rat has found and gnawed through.

This x 1000

250 years since our forefathers founded this great country, with multiple amendments made along the way, and this lifelong criminal discovered that you could take over (while earning a minority of the votes) and then getting everyone in your party to be scared of your cult members, and hiring a co-conspirator and equally corrupt attorney general and make yourself beyond any rules or laws of the land.  We all know that he's going to get away with this too. And not a single Trump supporter will have a problem with any of it. 

He has made it painfully obvious that our system is terrible, but because one party is benefiting from all the corruption, there can never be a way to fix it. It is truly a frightening time to be an American.

[timschochet 32,428]

Just now, Mr. Ham said:

But he can’t bribe or extort foreign leaders. 

“Did he actually do it? He just threatened to do it as a way to improve deal terms. That’s perfectly justifiable, perfectly legal!” 

[ClownCausedChaos2 5,570]

8 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

You're thinking of Zalinsky - americanized version of the name.

Ah.  Thanks for the clarification.

[Mr. Ham 9,738]

More background on efforts to dig up dirt on Biden, that found its way commingling with military aid.

https://www.justsecurity.org/66101/trump-and-giulianis-quest-for-fake-ukraine-dirt-on-biden-an-explainer/

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

12 hours ago, timschochet said:

12 hours ago, snitwitch said:

mods, merge this with the russia thread please

Why? 

Quote

“Clearly,” said Geraschenko, “Trump is now looking for kompromat to discredit his opponent Biden, to take revenge for his friend Paul Manafort, who is serving seven years in prison.” 

Anton Geraschenko, senior adviser to Ukraine's interior minister.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

29 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

@JackKingston

”Whistleblower” a likely disgruntled #obama deep stater on his way out the door.

Quote

Conservative activist, Trump surrogate & former congressman

The point of whistleblower protection is the whistleblower is supposed to be protected.

[Sinn Fein 32,994]

17 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

He can do both if it’s for the benefit of the US, just not for his own personal benefit.  

I am not sure about that ... I don't think its legal to bribe or extort foreign leaders for anyone's benefit.  But, I am a bit out of my depth here.

Of course, there is also a very fine line between "negotiating" and "extorting"...  I don't think Trump has any clue where that line might be - its all a part of doing business to him.

[Biff84 2,612]

46 minutes ago, Insomniac said:

Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV.  That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base. 

 

If there’s tapes, he’s done. Even as bad as the GOP has been they will know that 2020 will be impossible. Someone like Romney will announce he’s running for President and Trump will be gone. It won’t be about doing the right thing for the country, it will be about doing the right thing for the party. That’s what it’s always been and of there’s tapes, that time is coming.

[Juxtatarot 11,089]

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

As @Sinn Fein pointed out, everything depends on the phone call- IF there is a tape of the phone call, and IF Congress and the public get ahold of it. If there is no tape or if we never hear it, Trump will get away with this. 

If they go to court to get the tape, it could take a year or longer. The White House will no doubt fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Based on the unanimous decision against Nixon, Trump should lose this but you never know. In the meantime none of this is likely to be resolved prior to the election. 

I agree that actual recordings will be important.  However, even with them, there seems like plenty of wriggle room to claim no wrong doing.  We'll see but my guess is this ends up fading away like everything else.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

15 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

If there’s tapes, he’s done. Even as bad as the GOP has been they will know that 2020 will be impossible. Someone like Romney will announce he’s running for President and Trump will be gone. It won’t be about doing the right thing for the country, it will be about doing the right thing for the party. That’s what it’s always been and of there’s tapes, that time is coming.

As much as I'd love to agree, I don't. The base won't care, and that will cause the GOP leadership to remain scared and silent.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

As @Sinn Fein pointed out, everything depends on the phone call- IF there is a tape of the phone call, and IF Congress and the public get ahold of it. If there is no tape or if we never hear it, Trump will get away with this. 

If they go to court to get the tape, it could take a year or longer. The White House will no doubt fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Based on the unanimous decision against Nixon, Trump should lose this but you never know. In the meantime none of this is likely to be resolved prior to the election. 

To echo Ivan a little bit this is not hard, there is a solution - open an impeachment proceeding, subpoena the tape and transcript and when Trump refuses it bring it to a court and ask for an emergency hearing. There is even an explicit Supreme Court precedent about a president withholding tapes and this is even stronger than the Nixon case because this isn't some private executive circle conversation. 

[[scooter] 14,071]

19 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

1 hour ago, Insomniac said:

Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV.  That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base. 

If there’s tapes, he’s done. Even as bad as the GOP has been they will know that 2020 will be impossible. Someone like Romney will announce he’s running for President and Trump will be gone. It won’t be about doing the right thing for the country, it will be about doing the right thing for the party. That’s what it’s always been and of there’s tapes, that time is coming.

Ha, this is funny.

But you are dreaming of a world that doesn't exist anymore.

The only way this hurts Trump is if there is an explicit quid-pro-quo on tape, and I doubt Trump is brazen enough to do such a thing.

[Sheriff Bart 13,590]

1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No it isn't.  The constitution has a well-defined procedure for dealing with a president who is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.  Congress just refuses to do its job.

Hail Hydra

[Sheriff Bart 13,590]

3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

26 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

1 hour ago, Insomniac said:

Even if there are tapes to prove this, the GOP base, donors, and elected leaders will accept any explanation used by his pathetic lackeys on TV.  That's what happens in every case with Trumpists. I hope all the details come out and the info can be used to help defeat him in the 2020 election. Maybe the scandal and the blind GOP defense of Trump results in a resounding defeat for the GOP . Its more likely the right will tale up the Ni shagu nazad! tactic and use it to fire up their base. 

If there’s tapes, he’s done. Even as bad as the GOP has been they will know that 2020 will be impossible. Someone like Romney will announce he’s running for President and Trump will be gone. It won’t be about doing the right thing for the country, it will be about doing the right thing for the party. That’s what it’s always been and of there’s tapes, that time is coming.

Ha, this is funny.

But you are dreaming of a world that doesn't exist anymore.

The only way this hurts Trump is if there is an explicit quid-pro-quo on tape, and I doubt Trump is brazen enough to do such a thing

Right. There is no "done" anymore even if Trump is on tape. Why? Because Trump has been elevated to Supreme Ruler and can't commit crimes. 

[Biff84 2,612]

2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Ha, this is funny.

But you are dreaming of a world that doesn't exist anymore.

The only way this hurts Trump is if there is an explicit quid-pro-quo on tape, and I doubt Trump is brazen enough to do such a thing.

The GOP is about their best interest and it will take a lot for Trump to not be their best interest. This will do it. I think there will be a quid-pro-quo included. I think Trump is that brazen and that dumb. He’s empowered by beating the Russia stuff and finally having an AG that acts like his personal lawyer.

[[scooter] 14,071]

4 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

13 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Ha, this is funny.

But you are dreaming of a world that doesn't exist anymore.

The only way this hurts Trump is if there is an explicit quid-pro-quo on tape, and I doubt Trump is brazen enough to do such a thing.

The GOP is about their best interest and it will take a lot for Trump to not be their best interest. This will do it. I think there will be a quid-pro-quo included. I think Trump is that brazen and that dumb. He’s empowered by beating the Russia stuff and finally having an AG that acts like his personal lawyer.

I think you seriously underestimate the GOP's threshold for "crimes and misdemeanors" -- at least when a Republican President is involved.

The public has already been exhausted with the Russia story, so at this point an actual crime will not cause outrage. Republicans in Congress are well aware of this, and they're going to exploit it for as long as they can.

It may seem like it would be in the GOP's best interest to "do the right thing", but the strategy could easily backfire -- just as it did for the Republicans in 1976.

[The Commish 13,046]

34 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

As much as I'd love to agree, I don't. The base won't care, and that will cause the GOP leadership to remain scared and silent.

What are they scared of?  There's zero reason to be scared.  If anything, they should be licking their chops with the realization that their support isn't far off in quality from the minions in Despicable Me

[roadkill1292 10,465]

Benghazi.

Thought I'd get it out there.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

What are they scared of?  There's zero reason to be scared.  If anything, they should be licking their chops with the realization that their support isn't far off in quality from the minions in Despicable Me

Unemployment. Anyone crosses Trump, he's getting voted out. And that's all they care about. Country be damned. 

[squistion 12,409]

Kyle Griffin citing WH Pool report:

Trump on the whistleblower story and Biden:

"POTUS calls it a 'Ridiculous story' and a 'Partisan whistleblower' ... Asked whether he discussed Biden in this conversation, POTUS 'it doesn't matter what I discussed' and says 'someone ought to look into Joe Biden'."

 

[TheMagus 1,879]

They are just going to say that it's the same thing as what Hillary did with the Steele dossier.

[The Commish 13,046]

13 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Unemployment. Anyone crosses Trump, he's getting voted out. And that's all they care about. Country be damned. 

Yeah....at this point, I don't believe there is anyone left in Congress who wants to do the right thing but is scared.....this silence isn't out of fear it's because they agree.

[The General 23,585]

Trump says he has no idea who the whistleblower and has no idea about what they said but also somehow knows the person is highly partisan.

Also said all his conversations are "beautiful".

[urbanhack 11,832]

21 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Benghazi.

Thought I'd get it out there.

Also...

bump AOC and Kaep.  

[lazyike 1,782]

1 hour ago, Biff84 said:

If there’s tapes, he’s done. Even as bad as the GOP has been they will know that 2020 will be impossible. Someone like Romney will announce he’s running for President and Trump will be gone. It won’t be about doing the right thing for the country, it will be about doing the right thing for the party. That’s what it’s always been and of there’s tapes, that time is coming.

In my dreams.

[squistion 12,409]

3 minutes ago, The General said:

Trump says he has no idea who the whistleblower and has no idea about what they said but also somehow knows the person is highly partisan.

Also said all his conversations are "beautiful".

Expanding on that:

Trump on the whistleblower complaint:

"Ridiculous"; "partisan person" -- but "don't know the identity"; was a "beautiful conversation," and his conversations are "always appropriate." Asked if he talked about Biden, he said, "it doesn't matter what I discussed."

[roadkill1292 10,465]

There was a discussion elsewhere comparing the Watergate era to today and I don't see how you can escape the conclusion that the country's right no longer cares about governing honorably. It is determined to hold onto power, even if backed by a minority of voters, for every day that it can and no act of blatant grift will undermine that need.