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2014 ACC Basketball [Closed - use 2015 thread instead] (2 Viewers)

oso diablo

Footballguy
Classes are starting up, and it's time to start the new thread. Let's go! And let's be friendly competitors out there.

EDIT NOTE: thread was originally for 2012-2013 season, but has now morphed into the 2013-2014 season.

EDIT 07/14: Thread for 2015 season now started

 
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Purvis situation still not resolved, last day to add classes is the 29th.

There have been rumblings that word should come soon though.

 
A look at the November tournaments. Looks to be an ACC team in all of the majors. If any of the Duke guys are planning to check out the Battle for Atlantis, I would like a scouting report. UNC is scheduled for 2014, and I've already penciled that in as a no-kid trip.

The article doesn't mention the State Farm Classic, which is not a tournament, but I a double-header of Kansas-Michigan State and Duke-Kentucky will have my attention. (And I'll go ahead and a say "Go Duke!" without a hint of reservation. I know the lesser of two evils when I see it.)

 
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:

His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.

 
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.
What exactly was/is the problem?
 
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.
What exactly was/is the problem?
He is in the first graduating class form his private high school. NCAA has to approve his courses/school before he can become eligible to play. Grades/SAT are not an issue, just the status of the high school.Why it's taken so long/wasn't taken care of by the school long ago is a mystery.
 
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.
What exactly was/is the problem?
He is in the first graduating class form his private high school. NCAA has to approve his courses/school before he can become eligible to play. Grades/SAT are not an issue, just the status of the high school.Why it's taken so long/wasn't taken care of by the school long ago is a mystery.
Good Lord...that's still going on? I assumed it had to be something else by now.
 
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.
By virtue of beginning to attend class, Purvis has officially started his 5 year eligibility clock. That implies he is committed to State, regardless of how this situation unfolds (as opposed to going to prep school, going to another university, or going overseas). So I view that as a positive development.But there is still some risk here. Kansas had two players in recent years who ended up being forced to redshirt what would have been their freshman seasons while waiting for the NCAA to resolve their status.As it is, he was already forced to miss the Spain trip and all practices that were allowed up to this point. Hopefully it will end there and he'll be cleared by October.
 
'Worm said:
'tdoss said:
'Worm said:
Purvis cleared to enroll in classes. :thumbup:His eligibility to play isn't cleared up yet, but practice doesn't start until October so there's plenty of time now to get everything worked out. Glad the NCAA at least made one step in the right direction.
What exactly was/is the problem?
He is in the first graduating class form his private high school. NCAA has to approve his courses/school before he can become eligible to play. Grades/SAT are not an issue, just the status of the high school.Why it's taken so long/wasn't taken care of by the school long ago is a mystery.
It's very much a mystery.
 
He was before my time, but if you know your ACC history, this is worthy of a moment of silence.

Duke great Art Heyman dies at 71

Three-time All-American altered trajectory of Blue Devils' program

According to Duke basketball’s official twitter account, former Blue Devil Art Heyman died Monday at 71.

A program-defining swingman in the early 1960s, the 6-foot-5 Heyman is one of 13 Blue Devils to have their numbers retired.

By landing Heyman - and breaking the grip that Frank McGuire’s North Carolina program had on southbound New York City talent - then coach Vic Bubas changed the tone of Triangle basketball for most of the next decade. Heyman also helped dial up the heat of the Blue Devils’ rivalry with North Carolina when he and Tar Heels guard Larry Brown tangled in a 1961 meeting in Cameron Indoor Stadium, leading to a near-riot.

But his most important legacy is as the first true Duke star during the ACC era. During his three seasons on the Blue Devils’ varsity squad – freshmen weren’t allowed to play in Heyman’s day – he averaged a school record 25.1 points per game. He was a unanimous All-ACC pick three times, a feat only matched by former N.C. State great David Thompson and former North Carolina star Tyler Hansbrough.

A three-time All-American, he was named the National Player of the Year in 1963. That season, he guided the Blue Devils to their first Final Four and was named the Most Outstanding Player after scoring 29 points and grabbing 12 rebounds against eventual champ Loyola in the semifinals.

 
Resisting urge to engage in NCAA rants here.
I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy. But the picture of the Purvis situation given is this thread isn't exactly complete.I don't mean to disparage the kid, but as I understand it, Purvis had to repeat the 8th grade. Then all of a sudden he's smart enough to skip a grade? How many kids do you know that have to repeat a grade and then suddenly are smart enough to skip a grade a couple years later? Add to that the fact that the school- again, at which he was the first and only member of the graduating class- is run entirely by State alums, including a former State basketball player serving as basketball coach and a former State football player as the head of the school, and that after the reclassification during his high school career the kid revoked his commitment to Louisville and committed to State. That's the facts as I understand them- NC State fans can certainly feel free to correct anything that is wrong here.I really don't care about the NCAA's stupid eligibility requirements- far as I'm concerned, if a school decides to admit a kid, he should be eligible to play, and the consequences of admitting poor students or failing to educate those students is the school's problem. But based on my understanding, this isn't a simple case of the NCAA not completing paperwork on a new high school quickly enough.
 
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Resisting urge to engage in NCAA rants here.
I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy. But the picture of the Purvis situation given is this thread isn't exactly complete.I don't mean to disparage the kid, but as I understand it, Purvis had to repeat the 8th grade. Then all of a sudden he's smart enough to skip a grade? How many kids do you know that have to repeat a grade and then suddenly are smart enough to skip a grade a couple years later? Add to that the fact that the school- again, at which he was the first and only member of the graduating class- is run entirely by State alums, including a former State basketball player serving as basketball coach and a former State football player as the head of the school, and that after the reclassification during his high school career the kid revoked his commitment to Louisville and committed to State. That's the facts as I understand them- NC State fans can certainly feel free to correct anything that is wrong here.
I see you've been getting your info from IC.Purvis did not HAVE to repeat 8th grade. He passed 8th grade and could have moved on, but his mom thought he would benefit by repeating. It was THEN that they diagnosed his learning disability. His mom said that if he worked hard and proved he could handle making up the classes, that he could re-classify to his original class. So after diagnosing his learning disability he got some help and worked his butt off to catch up and reclassify.

And I'm just dumbfound at the insinuation that the school is run by a bunch of State guys and that it's a conspiracy to funnel superstars like Rodney Purvis to State. First of all, the kid was wholly committed to Louisville and fully planned to go their until his recruiter left for somewhere else. It was only then, AFTER the coaching change, that State put the heat on, and eventually got the committment. The previous coaching staff hardly recruited Purvis, which was astounding to Pack fans.

I really don't care about the NCAA's stupid eligibility requirements- far as I'm concerned, if a school decides to admit a kid, he should be eligible to play, and the consequences of admitting poor students or failing to educate those students is the school's problem. But based on my understanding, this isn't a simple case of the NCAA not completing paperwork on a new high school quickly enough.
That's a good one considering the current state of academics at un-named local universities.Purvis had a GPA over 3 and good SAT score. He is by all accounts a great kid who puts academics first. You can read any number of articles outlining these facts. I don't know the whole story, but it is my understanding that the only reason the Purvis situation is where it is, is because URCA drug their feet and was not on the ball when the NCAA requested information. Whether that will impact Purvis eligibility for first or second semester I do not know.

But accusing the school of being a sham, or accusing Purvis of being a poor student, is just not accurate.

 
Resisting urge to engage in NCAA rants here.
I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy. But the picture of the Purvis situation given is this thread isn't exactly complete.I don't mean to disparage the kid, but as I understand it, Purvis had to repeat the 8th grade. Then all of a sudden he's smart enough to skip a grade? How many kids do you know that have to repeat a grade and then suddenly are smart enough to skip a grade a couple years later? Add to that the fact that the school- again, at which he was the first and only member of the graduating class- is run entirely by State alums, including a former State basketball player serving as basketball coach and a former State football player as the head of the school, and that after the reclassification during his high school career the kid revoked his commitment to Louisville and committed to State. That's the facts as I understand them- NC State fans can certainly feel free to correct anything that is wrong here.
I see you've been getting your info from IC.Purvis did not HAVE to repeat 8th grade. He passed 8th grade and could have moved on, but his mom thought he would benefit by repeating. It was THEN that they diagnosed his learning disability. His mom said that if he worked hard and proved he could handle making up the classes, that he could re-classify to his original class. So after diagnosing his learning disability he got some help and worked his butt off to catch up and reclassify.

And I'm just dumbfound at the insinuation that the school is run by a bunch of State guys and that it's a conspiracy to funnel superstars like Rodney Purvis to State. First of all, the kid was wholly committed to Louisville and fully planned to go their until his recruiter left for somewhere else. It was only then, AFTER the coaching change, that State put the heat on, and eventually got the committment. The previous coaching staff hardly recruited Purvis, which was astounding to Pack fans.

I really don't care about the NCAA's stupid eligibility requirements- far as I'm concerned, if a school decides to admit a kid, he should be eligible to play, and the consequences of admitting poor students or failing to educate those students is the school's problem. But based on my understanding, this isn't a simple case of the NCAA not completing paperwork on a new high school quickly enough.
That's a good one considering the current state of academics at un-named local universities.Purvis had a GPA over 3 and good SAT score. He is by all accounts a great kid who puts academics first. You can read any number of articles outlining these facts. I don't know the whole story, but it is my understanding that the only reason the Purvis situation is where it is, is because URCA drug their feet and was not on the ball when the NCAA requested information. Whether that will impact Purvis eligibility for first or second semester I do not know.

But accusing the school of being a sham, or accusing Purvis of being a poor student, is just not accurate.
So one correction of the facts, then. Gotcha. I apologize for saying that he had to repeat the 8th grade. "Had to repeat" in my post should be changed to "repeated." The rest of the facts stand. I'm happy that you think he's a good kid who works hard. I'm sure he is. But the fact pattern is highly unusual, regardless of how good a kid he is. I never accused the kid of being a poor student, I simply said that it's incredibly rare for a kid to repeat a grade, regardless of the reason (thank you for the correction) and then suddenly possess the academic ability to skip a grade in high school. That's a fact.

I like the insinuation that my version of the facts- which I invited you to correct- are a product of my fanhood and message board banter, but that your impression of him as the greatest success story in the history of American high school education is completely without bias.

For the kid's sake I hope he gets to play college basketball this year, but there's more to it than was represented in the thread previously.

 
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For the kid's sake I hope he gets to play college basketball this year, but there's more to it than was represented in the thread previously.
No, really, there isn't. This NCAA review has nothing to do with Purvis and everything to do with URCA being approved by the NCAA elgibility center.Maybe URCA made mistakes and ####ed things up along the way, I have no idea. But it has nothing to do with Purvis getting held back/skipping a grade, NC State alums on staff, or any other black helicopter IC stories you posted above.
 
For the kid's sake I hope he gets to play college basketball this year, but there's more to it than was represented in the thread previously.
No, really, there isn't. This NCAA review has nothing to do with Purvis and everything to do with URCA being approved by the NCAA elgibility center.Maybe URCA made mistakes and ####ed things up along the way, I have no idea. But it has nothing to do with Purvis getting held back/skipping a grade, NC State alums on staff, or any other black helicopter IC stories you posted above.
If the school doesn't meet the NCAA requirements for high school education for its 2012 graduating class, isn't that the same as Purvis not meeting them? He was a member of the first graduating class ever and he skipped a grade, so an academic program tailored specifically to him obviously must have been created for him, no? Isn't the legitimacy of that academic program what's under review? Admittedly I haven't been following the story that closely, perhaps I'm missing something that clearly differentiates between the school and the student, but it seems like both the fact that he skipped a grade (thus presumably affecting what courses he took) and the fact that he's a member of the first-ever graduating class are pertinent.

 
OK, Tobias, let's discuss the facts about the Purvis situation.

'TobiasFunke said:
Purvis had to repeat the 8th grade. Then all of a sudden he's smart enough to skip a grade? How many kids do you know that have to repeat a grade and then suddenly are smart enough to skip a grade a couple years later?
You cite two facts here. He repeated the 8th grade, and he later reclassified back to his original graduating class.But you left out a few other relevant facts. Purvis passed 8th grade and did not have to repeat it. His mother decided he should repeat the grade. Subsequently, he was diagnosed with a learning disability, got help with it, and took all the classes required to re-classify to his original class.

'TobiasFunke said:
Add to that the fact that the school- again, at which he was the first and only member of the graduating class-
This is untrue. Per the News and Observer:
As a member of the first graduating class at Upper Room, Purvis is the first athlete from the school to go through the NCAA eligibility process.
'TobiasFunke said:
Add to that the fact that the school... is run entirely by State alums
Is it? I don't know much about the school, but here is its Board of Directors:Mrs. Pamela M. Wooden, President

Mrs. Felice Pete, Vice President

Elder John K. Amanchukwu, Executive Director

Ms. Keesha White, Secretary

Elder Robert L. Williams, Treasurer

Mrs. Carol Peoples

Mr. Tirrell Listenbee

Mrs. Debra Thomas

John Amanchukwu played football at State. Do you know which of the other BOD members are affiliated with State in some way? For example, do you know if the other 4 officers on the BOD are affiliated with State? Do you know that only John Amanchukwu "runs" the school, or is it possible that the other BOD members are involved? These would seem to be important and relevant facts to your claim.

'TobiasFunke said:
including a former State basketball player serving as basketball coach
I agree this is a fact. Are you saying you find it surprising that a guy who played basketball at State in Raleigh became a basketball coach in Raleigh?
'TobiasFunke said:
and a former State football player as the head of the school
John Amanchukwu played football at State and is the Executive Director of the school. Are you saying you find it surprising that a guy who grew up in Raleigh and played football at State in Raleigh is the Executive Director of a school in Raleigh?
'TobiasFunke said:
after the reclassification during his high school career the kid revoked his commitment to Louisville and committed to State. That's the facts as I understand them
Well, you left an important fact out of this part. From ESPN:
Rodney Purvis, the No. 10 ranked player in the 2012 class, decommitted from Louisville over the weekend. The decision came as a result of Cardinals former assistant coach Tim Fuller, a North Carolina native like Purvis, taking a position at Missouri.
'TobiasFunke said:
I really don't care about the NCAA's stupid eligibility requirements- far as I'm concerned, if a school decides to admit a kid, he should be eligible to play, and the consequences of admitting poor students or failing to educate those students is the school's problem. But based on my understanding, this isn't a simple case of the NCAA not completing paperwork on a new high school quickly enough.
Again, from the News and Observer:
Purvis’ high school, Upper Room Christian Academy in Raleigh, is under an “extended review” by the NCAA Eligibility Center.

That process includes a review of every NCAA-required core class, such as English and math, that Purvis took for each year at the school. As a member of the first graduating class at Upper Room, Purvis is the first athlete from the school to go through the NCAA eligibility process.

The NCAA posts a list of “approved” classes for each high school on its web site. Because Upper Room had never been reviewed, it doesn’t have any “approved” classes, according to the NCAA’s site.

Purvis committed to N.C. State on Oct. 1, but the NCAA doesn’t begin its eligibility process until after a high school student graduates. About 200,000 high school students submit information to the eligibility database each year. The review process between Upper Room and the NCAA began in June. Upper Room, the NCAA and N.C. State have spent the summer trying to resolve Purvis’ eligibility.

Upper Room principal Jojuanna Long did not respond to a request seeking comment.

The NCAA does not comment on current cases and Chris Radford, an NCAA spokesman, said earlier this month there is no timetable for the extended review.

Radford wrote in an email to the News & Observer that an extended review of a high school is not unusual. The NCAA Eligibility Center categorizes about 50 schools per year as under “extended review.”

Every eligibility case has its own circumstances, but the NCAA cleared Kentucky freshman Nerlens Noel, the top-rated prospect in the class by ESPN, on Aug. 9. Last week, the NCAA withheld UCLA freshman Shabazz Muhammad from traveling with the team to China due to eligibility issues.

Like Noel, Purvis reclassified during his prep career, moving up a grade to the class of 2012, but Purvis’ academic issues with the NCAA are related to the qualifications of the high school.
This quote also identifies another member of the class of 2012 who reclassified by moving up a grade. I don't know how common this is, do you?
 
'TobiasFunke said:
I like the insinuation that my version of the facts- which I invited you to correct- are a product of my fanhood and message board banter, but that your impression of him as the greatest success story in the history of American high school education is completely without bias.
As to the bolded, no one in this thread has said or implied that. For someone who wants to discuss facts, it's curious that you would intentionally distort another viewpoint.
 
'TobiasFunke said:
'Worm said:
'TobiasFunke said:
For the kid's sake I hope he gets to play college basketball this year, but there's more to it than was represented in the thread previously.
No, really, there isn't. This NCAA review has nothing to do with Purvis and everything to do with URCA being approved by the NCAA elgibility center.Maybe URCA made mistakes and ####ed things up along the way, I have no idea. But it has nothing to do with Purvis getting held back/skipping a grade, NC State alums on staff, or any other black helicopter IC stories you posted above.
If the school doesn't meet the NCAA requirements for high school education for its 2012 graduating class, isn't that the same as Purvis not meeting them? He was a member of the first graduating class ever and he skipped a grade, so an academic program tailored specifically to him obviously must have been created for him, no? Isn't the legitimacy of that academic program what's under review? Admittedly I haven't been following the story that closely, perhaps I'm missing something that clearly differentiates between the school and the student, but it seems like both the fact that he skipped a grade (thus presumably affecting what courses he took) and the fact that he's a member of the first-ever graduating class are pertinent.
The issue relates to the 16 core courses required by the NCAA for eligibility. Purvis took those 16 courses at Upper Room. It is those courses that are in the process of being evaluated. Because he graduated with the first graduating class from Upper Room, Purvis was part of the first instance of some of those courses being taught at Upper Room. I understand UR had to contract out the teaching of one or more of those courses, and that is the likely issue (e.g., is there a problem with the qualifications of a teacher of one of those courses?).This is very clearly the school's fault if the courses do not all end up being accredited. It can't be Purvis's fault, he completed the classes he was directed to complete, and he didn't hire the teachers or design the curriculum. My understanding is that he has good grades and a good SAT score, so there is no reason to believe he couldn't satisfactorily complete the work of the 16 core courses.

I don't know that there is any reason to blame the NCAA here. Nor to blame State or Purvis.

 
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'TobiasFunke said:
I like the insinuation that my version of the facts- which I invited you to correct- are a product of my fanhood and message board banter, but that your impression of him as the greatest success story in the history of American high school education is completely without bias.
As to the bolded, no one in this thread has said or implied that. For someone who wants to discuss facts, it's curious that you would intentionally distort another viewpoint.
Geez, lighten up. I was making light of Worm's fawning, over the top portrayal of him as some sort of wonderboy.I appreciate your additions/corrections to the facts. What I considered unusual was not simply the reclassification, but a reclassification by a kid who repeated a grade just a few years earlier. I literally don't know of anyone else who's ever done that, so it's fair to call it unusual. Not damning, just unusual. But otherwise, your clarifications and corrections are useful, thanks.

 
I believe Andre Dawkins repeated his freshman year (transferred to a different school) and then "skipped" what would have been his 5th year of hs to come to duke a year earlier than expected.

By all accounts he was a very good student and the initial re-class was purely based on athletics.

Not sure what the time line was but I think they're comparable situations

 
Thank god for the UNC situation so that I don't have to take holier than thou UNC stuff seriously anymore.

 
and he'd tell you about it too. He used to own a bar in the Flatiron district in NYC before his health went downhill. He'd be there pretty much every night and relate Duke-UNC stories for you. He made no bones about how much he hated UNC and Larry Brown in particular.
now why would he hate Larry Brown?
It should alone noted that he claims that the cause of his bad NBA career was more to do with his knee he hurt his rookie year than the high life he enjoyed. I'll always remember hanging out with him, drunk, after the Gone in 54 seconds MD game as he related all those stories.

 
'oso diablo said:
'Sammy3469 said:
and he'd tell you about it too. He used to own a bar in the Flatiron district in NYC before his health went downhill. He'd be there pretty much every night and relate Duke-UNC stories for you. He made no bones about how much he hated UNC and Larry Brown in particular.
now why would he hate Larry Brown?
Good God, basketball was horrible back in those days.ETA: specifically regarding the quality of play and the complete dearth of athleticism relative to now.

 
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'Sammy3469 said:
and he'd tell you about it too. He used to own a bar in the Flatiron district in NYC before his health went downhill. He'd be there pretty much every night and relate Duke-UNC stories for you. He made no bones about how much he hated UNC and Larry Brown in particular.
Yes! Great call! I met him there as well. But what was the name of that place? It wasn't Brother Jimmy's - - those were owned by someone else, right? Did Art name the place after himself? I was only there once and sadly forget. But he was a funny dude. Hated Laettner, as I recall. Still pulled for Duke quite seriously and could not abide UNC for a second. My kind of guy. RIP. :(

 
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Finding it difficult to resolve a UNC fan giving a State fan grief over one of their players having academic requirement issues.

I guess it proves what's good for the goose but still strikes me odd.

 
Finding it difficult to resolve a UNC fan giving a State fan grief over one of their players having academic requirement issues.I guess it proves what's good for the goose but still strikes me odd.
I don't know if you're referring to me, but I wasn't giving anyone "grief." I said right in my first post that I think the whole thing is nonsense and that he should be able to play basketball for NC State, and I said in my second post that I hope he does. I was just pointing out that the picture being painted here was a little too rosy IMO.Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
 
Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
i think we get to do this for at least one season. Two, if you win something.
 
Finding it difficult to resolve a UNC fan giving a State fan grief over one of their players having academic requirement issues.I guess it proves what's good for the goose but still strikes me odd.
Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
:thumbup:
 
Finding it difficult to resolve a UNC fan giving a State fan grief over one of their players having academic requirement issues.

I guess it proves what's good for the goose but still strikes me odd.
I don't know if you're referring to me, but I wasn't giving anyone "grief." I said right in my first post that I think the whole thing is nonsense and that he should be able to play basketball for NC State, and I said in my second post that I hope he does. I was just pointing out that the picture being painted here was a little too rosy IMO.Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
Not sure this is true. Peppers played on a Final Four team. And I doubt he is the only basketball player whose eligibility should be questioned due to the bogus AFAM/AFRI courses. I expect more information to come out eventually.
 
Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
i think we get to do this for at least one season. Two, if you win something.
I can live with that. I wish this thread had been around for Myron Piggie, Chris Washburn and the rest, though. Can UNC fans cash those in retroactively?
 
Is this where we're at now? Any time a UNC fan says anything about anything in the basketball thread, we're gonna bring up an academic scandal at UNC with almost no connection to the basketball program? Sounds fun.
i think we get to do this for at least one season. Two, if you win something.
I can live with that. I wish this thread had been around for Myron Piggie, Chris Washburn and the rest, though. Can UNC fans cash those in retroactively?
Thats the thing dude, we took our medicine when that stuff went down. Now its your turn.And you might want to take off the blinders if you think there is "almost no connection" to the bball team. You would have to be ignorant, blind, or a bit slow to actually believe that.
 
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