Chadstroma
Footballguy
I rather get Chark in FA and not have to give up anything for it, plus get him on the cheap. I want us to be on the look for a WR if the talent is there when it is our pick too.
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2022 Las Vegas Raiders (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Amari Cooper to the Browns.
joey
Footballguy
Phew. I didn’t want him back. (Not that we were in the running). Let him drop passes from Mayfield.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I think he is a headcase. One of those guys that you have to baby and give non stop TLC to in order for him to perform. The slightest issue and he can't catch a ball throw at his numbers. He has the skillset to be a great WR in the NFL but I didn't want him back.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Defensive Coordinator Patrick Graham
Q: When you look at the personnel and the scheme that you're bringing in here, do you feel like there are foundational pieces to execute what your scheme is all about?
Coach Graham: “Absolutely. I think the thing you got to start off with, and I'm sure you've heard it and more and more teams are going to it, whether it’s public or not, but the game is sub defense period point blank. So, whether it's 11 personnel that we're seeing from teams or the 12 personnel that plays like 11 personnel. And the way we combat that a lot of times is playing sub defense. So, when I say sub defense, now you get into the four to five world of it, whatever the spacing is, four down, five down, three down, however the spacing is. But you’re really dealing in the world of five DBs on the field at once and four bigger bodies with two linebacker deals. So, like to me, the 4-3, the 3-4 discussions, I mean it's almost like it's antiquated to be honest with you. And what we're dealing with is sub, so when you talk about sub defense, do you have guys on the team that can rush the passer? Yes. Do you have guys on the team that can stop the run? Yes. Do you have guys that have shown they can cover in the past? Yes. So, to answer your question, those are the three major things I'm looking for aside from tackling. So yeah, I'm good. I'm good with that.”
Q: Outside of the fronts, you're also known for being versatile on the back end, using a lot of coverages and safety alignments. For the defense as a whole, when you're coming into a new place and you're trying to teach people a system that's maybe a little bit more complex, what does the process look like when you're trying to make sure they understand it and implement it once they get out there on the field?
Coach Graham: “It's nothing unique to my situation or the current rate. Like we're all teachers, that that's how you got to look at it. So, what we do is we develop lesson plans and trying to implement what we want to see out there on the field. And the complexity, okay, it's probably more of an illusion of complexity because honestly, like based on what you guys are looking, I'm just saying, you guys, the people look and making the comments about being complex and seeing a bunch of coverages. Honestly, if you think that we're able to do that many coverages and be good at it, that's going to be real hard. So, I guess the illusion of being complex. What we try to do with our lesson plans is teach the guys conceptual football, teach them situational football, all the stuff Josh [McDaniels] talked about us being a smart, tough football team, just making sure we're getting that stuff down. And then from there, it grows. It evolves more over time than, say, creation, if that makes sense. So, we're trying to evolve the defense as opposed to create new things every week. So that's a big part of what we do. And it starts with conceptual learning early on.
Q: Some coordinators when they come in like to bring in some guys who are familiar with their scheme to sort of help the players along. Is that something you're looking to do and maybe have some guys who you're familiar with and are familiar with what you do to sort of help communicate that to the guys?
Coach Graham: “Well, Dave [Ziegler] and Josh and Champ [Bailey], those guys, they handle all the personnel stuff. The thing I want, I want good players. You give me good players, I'm good whether I work with them before or not. I mean, I trust our coaches. I trust my ability to coach and teach. I mean give us good players and we'll be good to go, and we'll do our best. So, the guys that are here, the guys that are going to be here, I'll take those guys. I don't need a requirement of guys from the past. We don't need any of that. We just want good football players who buy into the team concept and the concept that Josh is putting forward there in terms of how he wants this team to look.”
Q: When you played against the Raiders last year, obviously you were more focused on what the Raider offense was going to do and scheming against them. But what has hit you about the guys that are still on the roster on that defense that you like? You said give me good players, you're good. But what stood out to you about the Raiders defense last year?
Coach Graham: “I thought they had some guys. Obviously, the thing that stood out being a former D-line coach, the fact they were able to get to the quarterback. I thought they did a good job with that. I was familiar with some of the guys, whether it was the draft process early in their careers or the start of careers or free agency. Johnathan Hankins was a guy that I coached before when I was at the Giants. So, I thought they did a good job there. I thought that the linebackers were active. I thought they were all active and making plays and, in the secondary, seemed like there were a bunch of young pieces there and they were working well together. Again, I didn’t watch their defense per se during the season, but just some of the stuff that stood out to me. When Josh gave me the opportunity to possibly come here, I was definitely excited about it. There's a lot of good players to work with and really excited about doing that.”
Q: You mentioned the importance of having five DBS. I'm wondering during your self-scout process, what are your thoughts, impressions of the DBS that you inherit now on this roster?
Coach Graham: “I mean we're in March right now. You know, in terms of what the team is going to be by the time we get to the season, who knows? But in terms of as you look at the roster, just like what I said before, I'm excited about the guys that are here. I'm excited about the guys that are here and get a chance to work with them. But who knows how the team is going to shape up shape for the season. We'll see how it plays out. But, you know, we're so far off from that right now, really. We're in the formative stages of just getting the coaches, getting us on the same page, making sure we're falling in line with the vision that Josh has for the team and for the defense. And then we're going through all this evaluation process, whether it's the free agency and the college prospects. But we're so far off from making any, you know, oh, this is what…I don't know. And plus, I've never worked with the guys yet. But I'll tell you this, I'm excited to work with everybody that’s here on the roster. That I can tell you.”
Q: You had a couple of opportunities it seemed like this offseason. What made this the right one for you to come here and be excited about?
Coach Graham: “As always you try to make the best decision for your family and your professional career, and it just so happened to be with someone I knew from the past. A lot of respect for Josh, in terms of respecting his football mind. I mean all the yards that he's gained on me as a young coordinator, having gone against them a few times, all the yards he's gained on us and when he beat us. So, I'm just really excited. I'm really, really excited for this organization. Again, when you think about it, I always think about it. I'm pretty blessed in terms of my career. I played at Yale. Again, to me, Walter Camp, football wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Yale. But I know people might argue and I got it, but that's a pretty big deal. And I end up coaching at Notre Dame at one point then I end up coaching at the Patriots, the Miami Dolphins, the Green Bay Packers, the New York Giants. And then I'm at the Raiders. I mean, you just look at that in terms of when you tell me when I was 23 years old, when I started off coaching, that I was going to be able to do that. There's no way in the world I would have thought that and so I feel pretty blessed. That's part of it as well.”
Q: You were talking about how excited you are to work with this defensive line. When you look at a guy like Maxx Crosby and Yannick Ngakoue, who are the key pieces to the defensive line, how excited are you to work with them? And what are the concepts that you want to teach them that you think can untap their potential?
Coach Graham: “I've been absolutely excited. Guys that have been productive in the league. They've proven that they could do it in the league. Now, again, obviously each year is new and they're going to have to prove it all over again. That's the beauty of this league, but in terms of just looking at Maxx, obviously he’s long, great motor. I mean it's a lot of stuff to work with there. Now, again, get into specifics of it. Again, we'll talk about it as a staff and figure out what we think he needs to do better on and what he needs to work on. And I'm sure he's already thinking about that stuff. But I'm just excited because the times I've been around him, he seems like great energy. I'm a firm believer that when you're at practice, when the big, long guys are running around the field with great energy, it kind of energizes the whole the whole team. When you feel those big guys running by you and stuff and they're talking, they have great energy. And I've had that in my past and I think that's a positive. That’s definitely a positive. Same thing with Yannick. You can feel it when you're talking to him on the phone, the energy, the excitement. I'm encouraged about that, to be honest with you. I'm encouraged by that. Just the energy, the vibe of the energy I'm getting from those guys, I'm really excited about that.”
Q: What do you want the identity of your defense to be? I know you're asked about DBs generally, but do you foresee a role, or what role do you see for Johnathan Abram?
Coach Graham: “Okay. So, in terms of the players, I haven't worked with the guys yet. I know this, we are going to try to put the guys in the best, whether it's Johnathan, whether it's Maxx, whoever they are, we are going to put them in the best spot to utilize their skill set to execute our game plan. That’s what I could tell you right now, especially since I haven't worked with anybody. All these positions, again, if I said safety, a safety can be at the deep part of the field or could be on the line of scrimmage. So, what I see is a safety and what you’re deeming, it can be two different things. So, I can't get into specifics on that. In terms of the identity of the defense, I want it to be reflective of Josh's vision in terms of a smart, tough football team. I want that to jump off the tape. Smart, eliminate penalties. Being smart situationally, the toughness, play in the run game, our contribution on the coverage units on punt and kickoff. I want that stuff to be reflective on there. And then obviously when we're playing defense, we want to be physical. We'll be able to tackle and we're going to be able to get the ball away from the other team. I mean those are important things there in terms of just true identity. We get into more specifics with the players. I think that's something that we kind of hold close to our chest and see if it jumps off the tape for us. I'm not going to share exactly how we word it to them, but those are the things I'm looking for on a team that I'm coaching defensively. That's what I'm looking for right there.”
Q: What are your first impressions of Las Vegas? Secondly, what kind of defensive tackle would best fit your scheme and the idea that you have for this defense?
Coach Graham: “First impressions of Vegas. I was not anticipating this wind or this cold. Especially when I get up in the morning, I get up pretty early, and yeah, it caught me off guard a little bit. I've been wearing shorts in the morning, and I think I’m going to have to change it up. But they told me it's going to get warmer here soon. I'm assuming you meant Las Vegas the city, correct? So, that's my take on that. In terms of defensive tackles, to me, the interior part of the line, what you're looking for is real hard. If those guys can get blocked one-on-one, we're going to have a problem. Now, we talk about the whole defense. Nobody should be able to get blocked one-on-one. Like, it's hard enough to play defense in this league but if they could go one-for-one with the blocking, then we have to commit extra people, whether it's for the run. It then becomes a problem again because it is a passing league. So, I would say this, when I talk to those guys, we have to be able to win one-on-one block situations. So, how do we win those? Playing with good pad level, strike, using our hands, getting our hands in front of our eyes, playing with extension, being able to ID where the ball is without jumping out of your gap and then being able to escape blocks. So, whether it's a size thing or the different parameters you have for a guy's length. If they could do that stuff for me, for us here at the Raiders, what Josh is looking for, we'll be fine. Be able to play with some pad level, get some knockback, play with extension, find the ball and get off a block and not get blocked one-on-one, they'll find a place here. I promise you that.”
Q: When you look at the personnel and the scheme that you're bringing in here, do you feel like there are foundational pieces to execute what your scheme is all about?
Coach Graham: “Absolutely. I think the thing you got to start off with, and I'm sure you've heard it and more and more teams are going to it, whether it’s public or not, but the game is sub defense period point blank. So, whether it's 11 personnel that we're seeing from teams or the 12 personnel that plays like 11 personnel. And the way we combat that a lot of times is playing sub defense. So, when I say sub defense, now you get into the four to five world of it, whatever the spacing is, four down, five down, three down, however the spacing is. But you’re really dealing in the world of five DBs on the field at once and four bigger bodies with two linebacker deals. So, like to me, the 4-3, the 3-4 discussions, I mean it's almost like it's antiquated to be honest with you. And what we're dealing with is sub, so when you talk about sub defense, do you have guys on the team that can rush the passer? Yes. Do you have guys on the team that can stop the run? Yes. Do you have guys that have shown they can cover in the past? Yes. So, to answer your question, those are the three major things I'm looking for aside from tackling. So yeah, I'm good. I'm good with that.”
Q: Outside of the fronts, you're also known for being versatile on the back end, using a lot of coverages and safety alignments. For the defense as a whole, when you're coming into a new place and you're trying to teach people a system that's maybe a little bit more complex, what does the process look like when you're trying to make sure they understand it and implement it once they get out there on the field?
Coach Graham: “It's nothing unique to my situation or the current rate. Like we're all teachers, that that's how you got to look at it. So, what we do is we develop lesson plans and trying to implement what we want to see out there on the field. And the complexity, okay, it's probably more of an illusion of complexity because honestly, like based on what you guys are looking, I'm just saying, you guys, the people look and making the comments about being complex and seeing a bunch of coverages. Honestly, if you think that we're able to do that many coverages and be good at it, that's going to be real hard. So, I guess the illusion of being complex. What we try to do with our lesson plans is teach the guys conceptual football, teach them situational football, all the stuff Josh [McDaniels] talked about us being a smart, tough football team, just making sure we're getting that stuff down. And then from there, it grows. It evolves more over time than, say, creation, if that makes sense. So, we're trying to evolve the defense as opposed to create new things every week. So that's a big part of what we do. And it starts with conceptual learning early on.
Q: Some coordinators when they come in like to bring in some guys who are familiar with their scheme to sort of help the players along. Is that something you're looking to do and maybe have some guys who you're familiar with and are familiar with what you do to sort of help communicate that to the guys?
Coach Graham: “Well, Dave [Ziegler] and Josh and Champ [Bailey], those guys, they handle all the personnel stuff. The thing I want, I want good players. You give me good players, I'm good whether I work with them before or not. I mean, I trust our coaches. I trust my ability to coach and teach. I mean give us good players and we'll be good to go, and we'll do our best. So, the guys that are here, the guys that are going to be here, I'll take those guys. I don't need a requirement of guys from the past. We don't need any of that. We just want good football players who buy into the team concept and the concept that Josh is putting forward there in terms of how he wants this team to look.”
Q: When you played against the Raiders last year, obviously you were more focused on what the Raider offense was going to do and scheming against them. But what has hit you about the guys that are still on the roster on that defense that you like? You said give me good players, you're good. But what stood out to you about the Raiders defense last year?
Coach Graham: “I thought they had some guys. Obviously, the thing that stood out being a former D-line coach, the fact they were able to get to the quarterback. I thought they did a good job with that. I was familiar with some of the guys, whether it was the draft process early in their careers or the start of careers or free agency. Johnathan Hankins was a guy that I coached before when I was at the Giants. So, I thought they did a good job there. I thought that the linebackers were active. I thought they were all active and making plays and, in the secondary, seemed like there were a bunch of young pieces there and they were working well together. Again, I didn’t watch their defense per se during the season, but just some of the stuff that stood out to me. When Josh gave me the opportunity to possibly come here, I was definitely excited about it. There's a lot of good players to work with and really excited about doing that.”
Q: You mentioned the importance of having five DBS. I'm wondering during your self-scout process, what are your thoughts, impressions of the DBS that you inherit now on this roster?
Coach Graham: “I mean we're in March right now. You know, in terms of what the team is going to be by the time we get to the season, who knows? But in terms of as you look at the roster, just like what I said before, I'm excited about the guys that are here. I'm excited about the guys that are here and get a chance to work with them. But who knows how the team is going to shape up shape for the season. We'll see how it plays out. But, you know, we're so far off from that right now, really. We're in the formative stages of just getting the coaches, getting us on the same page, making sure we're falling in line with the vision that Josh has for the team and for the defense. And then we're going through all this evaluation process, whether it's the free agency and the college prospects. But we're so far off from making any, you know, oh, this is what…I don't know. And plus, I've never worked with the guys yet. But I'll tell you this, I'm excited to work with everybody that’s here on the roster. That I can tell you.”
Q: You had a couple of opportunities it seemed like this offseason. What made this the right one for you to come here and be excited about?
Coach Graham: “As always you try to make the best decision for your family and your professional career, and it just so happened to be with someone I knew from the past. A lot of respect for Josh, in terms of respecting his football mind. I mean all the yards that he's gained on me as a young coordinator, having gone against them a few times, all the yards he's gained on us and when he beat us. So, I'm just really excited. I'm really, really excited for this organization. Again, when you think about it, I always think about it. I'm pretty blessed in terms of my career. I played at Yale. Again, to me, Walter Camp, football wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Yale. But I know people might argue and I got it, but that's a pretty big deal. And I end up coaching at Notre Dame at one point then I end up coaching at the Patriots, the Miami Dolphins, the Green Bay Packers, the New York Giants. And then I'm at the Raiders. I mean, you just look at that in terms of when you tell me when I was 23 years old, when I started off coaching, that I was going to be able to do that. There's no way in the world I would have thought that and so I feel pretty blessed. That's part of it as well.”
Q: You were talking about how excited you are to work with this defensive line. When you look at a guy like Maxx Crosby and Yannick Ngakoue, who are the key pieces to the defensive line, how excited are you to work with them? And what are the concepts that you want to teach them that you think can untap their potential?
Coach Graham: “I've been absolutely excited. Guys that have been productive in the league. They've proven that they could do it in the league. Now, again, obviously each year is new and they're going to have to prove it all over again. That's the beauty of this league, but in terms of just looking at Maxx, obviously he’s long, great motor. I mean it's a lot of stuff to work with there. Now, again, get into specifics of it. Again, we'll talk about it as a staff and figure out what we think he needs to do better on and what he needs to work on. And I'm sure he's already thinking about that stuff. But I'm just excited because the times I've been around him, he seems like great energy. I'm a firm believer that when you're at practice, when the big, long guys are running around the field with great energy, it kind of energizes the whole the whole team. When you feel those big guys running by you and stuff and they're talking, they have great energy. And I've had that in my past and I think that's a positive. That’s definitely a positive. Same thing with Yannick. You can feel it when you're talking to him on the phone, the energy, the excitement. I'm encouraged about that, to be honest with you. I'm encouraged by that. Just the energy, the vibe of the energy I'm getting from those guys, I'm really excited about that.”
Q: What do you want the identity of your defense to be? I know you're asked about DBs generally, but do you foresee a role, or what role do you see for Johnathan Abram?
Coach Graham: “Okay. So, in terms of the players, I haven't worked with the guys yet. I know this, we are going to try to put the guys in the best, whether it's Johnathan, whether it's Maxx, whoever they are, we are going to put them in the best spot to utilize their skill set to execute our game plan. That’s what I could tell you right now, especially since I haven't worked with anybody. All these positions, again, if I said safety, a safety can be at the deep part of the field or could be on the line of scrimmage. So, what I see is a safety and what you’re deeming, it can be two different things. So, I can't get into specifics on that. In terms of the identity of the defense, I want it to be reflective of Josh's vision in terms of a smart, tough football team. I want that to jump off the tape. Smart, eliminate penalties. Being smart situationally, the toughness, play in the run game, our contribution on the coverage units on punt and kickoff. I want that stuff to be reflective on there. And then obviously when we're playing defense, we want to be physical. We'll be able to tackle and we're going to be able to get the ball away from the other team. I mean those are important things there in terms of just true identity. We get into more specifics with the players. I think that's something that we kind of hold close to our chest and see if it jumps off the tape for us. I'm not going to share exactly how we word it to them, but those are the things I'm looking for on a team that I'm coaching defensively. That's what I'm looking for right there.”
Q: What are your first impressions of Las Vegas? Secondly, what kind of defensive tackle would best fit your scheme and the idea that you have for this defense?
Coach Graham: “First impressions of Vegas. I was not anticipating this wind or this cold. Especially when I get up in the morning, I get up pretty early, and yeah, it caught me off guard a little bit. I've been wearing shorts in the morning, and I think I’m going to have to change it up. But they told me it's going to get warmer here soon. I'm assuming you meant Las Vegas the city, correct? So, that's my take on that. In terms of defensive tackles, to me, the interior part of the line, what you're looking for is real hard. If those guys can get blocked one-on-one, we're going to have a problem. Now, we talk about the whole defense. Nobody should be able to get blocked one-on-one. Like, it's hard enough to play defense in this league but if they could go one-for-one with the blocking, then we have to commit extra people, whether it's for the run. It then becomes a problem again because it is a passing league. So, I would say this, when I talk to those guys, we have to be able to win one-on-one block situations. So, how do we win those? Playing with good pad level, strike, using our hands, getting our hands in front of our eyes, playing with extension, being able to ID where the ball is without jumping out of your gap and then being able to escape blocks. So, whether it's a size thing or the different parameters you have for a guy's length. If they could do that stuff for me, for us here at the Raiders, what Josh is looking for, we'll be fine. Be able to play with some pad level, get some knockback, play with extension, find the ball and get off a block and not get blocked one-on-one, they'll find a place here. I promise you that.”
Chaka
Footballguy
I would have been fine with him coming back but, as with Mack, I was far more concerned with the possibility he end up with a division rival, specifically Kansas City.
I've been thinking about this since the Chargers traded for Kahlil Mack. I'll preface by saying I've always been Pro-Carr and firmly believe he's the main reason the Raiders finally got back to the playoffs in 2021.
Hear me out.... Maybe this is the time to move on. Trade him now while there's teams like Indy, Pittsburgh, Washington, Seattle, Carolina who are desperate for a QB. If a team like Indy offers a Russell Wilson-like deal that includes a couple 1st rounders ( I know they don't have one this year it would be 2023, '24), Ziegler should pull the trigger and reset.
Hindsight 20/20 the Gruden/Mayock era was a $#^!show, the defense is devoid of talent no matter what Patrick Graham and others say in the media. Can this defense really compete in the AFC West in 2022? Its highly questionable they can.
The case can be made to let KC, LA and Den battle it out this year and develop as much draft capital under the new regime. Is it really worse than going 8-9 or 7-10 and listening to all the Carr-haters every offseason. Do Carr a favor, and give him a chance to win by sending him to a team with a defense to support him like Indy or Pittsburgh.
Maybe there's a hot shot QB in the 2023 draft the Raiders can rebuild around again.
Hear me out.... Maybe this is the time to move on. Trade him now while there's teams like Indy, Pittsburgh, Washington, Seattle, Carolina who are desperate for a QB. If a team like Indy offers a Russell Wilson-like deal that includes a couple 1st rounders ( I know they don't have one this year it would be 2023, '24), Ziegler should pull the trigger and reset.
Hindsight 20/20 the Gruden/Mayock era was a $#^!show, the defense is devoid of talent no matter what Patrick Graham and others say in the media. Can this defense really compete in the AFC West in 2022? Its highly questionable they can.
The case can be made to let KC, LA and Den battle it out this year and develop as much draft capital under the new regime. Is it really worse than going 8-9 or 7-10 and listening to all the Carr-haters every offseason. Do Carr a favor, and give him a chance to win by sending him to a team with a defense to support him like Indy or Pittsburgh.
Maybe there's a hot shot QB in the 2023 draft the Raiders can rebuild around again.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
The flaw in this think is the assumption that the Raiders will hit on the picks they get in return. Raiders history strongly suggests they won’t. At that point the team would be back to the dumpster-fire, laughing stock of the league, like last decade. No thanks! I call this the shiny new toy syndrome.
They should stay the course and build around Carr. Get him a RT (Leather is not a NFL tackle) and a true #1 WR. Then build up the defense.
joey
Footballguy
I heard you out and, you’re basically saying, let’s give up on a playoff team and start again with a chance of maybe perhaps hopefully making the playoffs if our picks work out.
no thanks.
ICON211
Footballguy
If someone offered a ton for Carr I would be ok moving on.
I think you are being too hard on the D though. They definitely need upgrades and to add some good players, but to say they are devoid of talent is way too harsh. They have two really good edge rushers in Crosby and Ngakoue and the makings of an excellent secondary. Mullen, Hobbs, Abram and Moehrig are all starting caliber players. I was also intrigued by what I saw from Koonce and Deablo last year.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
This is why I think the franchise tag is the way to go. Let Carr play out his contract. Scout those college qbs. If there’s not one in 23’ tag him. If a ridiculous trade offer comes in like the wilson or Watson trades, take it.
the D is going to be epically bad, unless some serious talent is brought in. Scheme alone ain’t gonna cut it. Those of you saying to get a wr 1 and a stud RT are neglecting how devoid of players, let alone talent, is currently on the roster.
I'm not saying trade Carr just to trade him. But starting over has to be an option that's been discussed.
There seems to be two ways to build a successful team in recent years. Sign or extend a veteran QB to a big contract and play the bargain free agent market and most importantly, draft well.
The 2nd option is to go all in on a rookie QB and sign big free agent contracts while said QB is still on his rookie deal.
Yes, they were a playoff team, barely, and that was last year. It's a new year and a new regime. If and it's a big IF they can get a boatload of picks for Carr from a desperate team with realistic playoff aspirations like Indy or Pittsburgh, they would have to take it into consideration. Especially if they've been scouting next year's crop of college QBs and like what they've seen out of a couple guys.
For the record, I'm more than happy keeping Carr, but the more I think about it, if the right deal comes along it could make sense if they have their sights set on a QB in next year's draft.
There seems to be two ways to build a successful team in recent years. Sign or extend a veteran QB to a big contract and play the bargain free agent market and most importantly, draft well.
The 2nd option is to go all in on a rookie QB and sign big free agent contracts while said QB is still on his rookie deal.
Yes, they were a playoff team, barely, and that was last year. It's a new year and a new regime. If and it's a big IF they can get a boatload of picks for Carr from a desperate team with realistic playoff aspirations like Indy or Pittsburgh, they would have to take it into consideration. Especially if they've been scouting next year's crop of college QBs and like what they've seen out of a couple guys.
For the record, I'm more than happy keeping Carr, but the more I think about it, if the right deal comes along it could make sense if they have their sights set on a QB in next year's draft.
Agreed, this is the "rose-colored glasses " time of year. Realistically, they're not that good. What was the combined score of the KC games last year? Like 98-23? That's not gonna cut it. Herbert can easily put up 30+ every time they play. Crosby and Yannick aren't enough, they need serious upgrades on the Dline and need more talent in the secondary. Even Graham said himself he needs at least 5 DBs that can really play at all times, after Mullen and Hobbs it gets very thin in a hurry back there.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Jesus. I’m supposed to Debbie Downer here and you guys are depressing me.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
And don’t forget those charger games. I was at the one on LA. It wasn’t close. And yes, they won the 2nd game. But I’m still going to therapy for all the 4th down conversions. A 21 play drive!
I know, but it's the Raiders. It's calm right now but Crazytown is always just block away with this chaotic organization. A young McDaniels was not afraid to change QBs as soon as he walked into the building in Denver. I'm praying Ziegler is able to keep his ego in check, hopefully age has done that as well.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I love you guys but daaaaaang you cray cray
Lamonica, Stabler, Plunkett.... then we went searching and hoping.... Wilson, Schroeder, Marinovich, Hostetler, George..... and then we got Gannon for 4 years before.... Mirer, Tuiasosopo, Walter, Brooks, McCown, Culpepper, Russell, Campbell, Gradkowski, Palmer, Pryor, McGloin.... and then we got Carr. He is 30 years old and clearly no one will argue a top 15 QB. He has not won but dang, look at the teams he lead during that time. He just comes out of one of the most epically ridiculous seasons a team has ever had to face and lead them to the playoffs where they lost a close one to the eventual AFC Champion. Without a plan for a QB, how does trading one away make sense?
So because some rivals of ours have made some moves to get better your response is to run up the white flag, grab a few draft picks and maybe players and go back to wondering the wasteland that NFL teams go and die year after year when they are desperate to find a good QB?
What are the options outside of Carr? Keep Mariota. Do any of you really think Mariota is the guy that will make us competitive? Sure, he can run like heck and he isn't a bad QB but he has had his time to shine and Ryan freaking Tannehill played better than him and ran him out of TN. Roll the dice with Watson... ok, that would work IF his legal troubles pan out. If not. We are screwed. And what do we have to give up to get him? Outside of that you have your trash heap of average or not good QB's... Garoppolo, Winston, Trubisky, Bridgewater... there are reasons why these guys are available. The draft? Ok... great plan.
Ok, fine, let's say we decide we want to downgrade to Mariota or swing for the fences with Watson. Who is going to give us enough that is makes sense? The Colts are the only team out of the MANY QB needy NFL teams that have a team around a QB that paying heavily would make sense. They have no 1st rounder this year. What does an acceptable trade look like? I am not giving Carr up short of a King's ransom. We take their 2nd, two 3rds and 4th this year. Plus a 1st and 2nd next year. Plus let's say Nelson. Do they make that trade? I dunno. Nelson upgrades the line right away and we have all these extra draft picks. Now what? Unless we went for Watson and all the massage stuff went away, it is likely for nothing because if you don't have a top 1/3 QB in this league, you are not going to do anything. Ask the Colts. Ask The Dolts. How easy is it to get a QB? Well... not very. Look at our own history and the fact that teams are willing to trade a lot to get QB's to come to their otherwise very good teams. Most likely, we end up with no QB and waste the years of players like Waller, Renfrow, Jacobs, Crosby, Miller, Hobbs, etc.
No thank you. Sure, take the call... you always take the phone call but short of Herschel Walker type of offer, I am not very interested.
I want to go to war. Win or die there. No rebuilding and play for 5 years from now... I am getting too old for that crap. I have lived through the 20 years of hoping next year we find out QB and can put a team together. I didn't want McDaniels and I am still holding my breath and hoping but so far there are encouraging signs that he isn't a jerk who will blow up a team as soon as he doesn't have an adult to check him as the HC. Maybe it was a maturity and learning thing. If so, I have always said that I had no doubt about his football mind. I have been very impressed with Graham. We have a lot of young talent on this team. We have work to do, without doubt, but I have no intention of being scared of the powdered blue because they added Mack. I have no intention of being scared of Wilson in Mile High. Just as much as I have not been scared of Mahomes in Arrowhead. Unless trading Carr makes us better then it is surrendering and that isn't the Raider way. We don't use white flags. We run up the Jolly Roger. We pillage for fun. We will knock you down and laugh at you when we win. Come on guys. Just win baby.
Lamonica, Stabler, Plunkett.... then we went searching and hoping.... Wilson, Schroeder, Marinovich, Hostetler, George..... and then we got Gannon for 4 years before.... Mirer, Tuiasosopo, Walter, Brooks, McCown, Culpepper, Russell, Campbell, Gradkowski, Palmer, Pryor, McGloin.... and then we got Carr. He is 30 years old and clearly no one will argue a top 15 QB. He has not won but dang, look at the teams he lead during that time. He just comes out of one of the most epically ridiculous seasons a team has ever had to face and lead them to the playoffs where they lost a close one to the eventual AFC Champion. Without a plan for a QB, how does trading one away make sense?
So because some rivals of ours have made some moves to get better your response is to run up the white flag, grab a few draft picks and maybe players and go back to wondering the wasteland that NFL teams go and die year after year when they are desperate to find a good QB?
What are the options outside of Carr? Keep Mariota. Do any of you really think Mariota is the guy that will make us competitive? Sure, he can run like heck and he isn't a bad QB but he has had his time to shine and Ryan freaking Tannehill played better than him and ran him out of TN. Roll the dice with Watson... ok, that would work IF his legal troubles pan out. If not. We are screwed. And what do we have to give up to get him? Outside of that you have your trash heap of average or not good QB's... Garoppolo, Winston, Trubisky, Bridgewater... there are reasons why these guys are available. The draft? Ok... great plan.
Ok, fine, let's say we decide we want to downgrade to Mariota or swing for the fences with Watson. Who is going to give us enough that is makes sense? The Colts are the only team out of the MANY QB needy NFL teams that have a team around a QB that paying heavily would make sense. They have no 1st rounder this year. What does an acceptable trade look like? I am not giving Carr up short of a King's ransom. We take their 2nd, two 3rds and 4th this year. Plus a 1st and 2nd next year. Plus let's say Nelson. Do they make that trade? I dunno. Nelson upgrades the line right away and we have all these extra draft picks. Now what? Unless we went for Watson and all the massage stuff went away, it is likely for nothing because if you don't have a top 1/3 QB in this league, you are not going to do anything. Ask the Colts. Ask The Dolts. How easy is it to get a QB? Well... not very. Look at our own history and the fact that teams are willing to trade a lot to get QB's to come to their otherwise very good teams. Most likely, we end up with no QB and waste the years of players like Waller, Renfrow, Jacobs, Crosby, Miller, Hobbs, etc.
No thank you. Sure, take the call... you always take the phone call but short of Herschel Walker type of offer, I am not very interested.
I want to go to war. Win or die there. No rebuilding and play for 5 years from now... I am getting too old for that crap. I have lived through the 20 years of hoping next year we find out QB and can put a team together. I didn't want McDaniels and I am still holding my breath and hoping but so far there are encouraging signs that he isn't a jerk who will blow up a team as soon as he doesn't have an adult to check him as the HC. Maybe it was a maturity and learning thing. If so, I have always said that I had no doubt about his football mind. I have been very impressed with Graham. We have a lot of young talent on this team. We have work to do, without doubt, but I have no intention of being scared of the powdered blue because they added Mack. I have no intention of being scared of Wilson in Mile High. Just as much as I have not been scared of Mahomes in Arrowhead. Unless trading Carr makes us better then it is surrendering and that isn't the Raider way. We don't use white flags. We run up the Jolly Roger. We pillage for fun. We will knock you down and laugh at you when we win. Come on guys. Just win baby.
Last edited by a moderator:
ICON211
Footballguy
Here's where I'm at on trading Carr:
Carr is a very good QB. I think he's somewhere around the 12th - 15th best QB in the league. You can definitely win with a QB on Carr's level.
He is nowhere near Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Allen etc level IMO. As with all good QBs, Carr is going to need a really good team around him to be able to win. He hasn't had that so far and he hasn't won as a result. It will only get harder to win if you give a QB on Carr's level a $40M per year extension.
Let's say there is a team willing to give up two first round picks or something close to that for Carr.
I am higher on Mariota than most and think he can have a second half career rebound. Am I sure of that? No. But, if I had the choice of Carr with a $40M per year extension or Mariota at significantly less money that could be spent elsewhere and two more 1s, I'd take Mariota and the picks.
Carr is a very good QB. I think he's somewhere around the 12th - 15th best QB in the league. You can definitely win with a QB on Carr's level.
He is nowhere near Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Allen etc level IMO. As with all good QBs, Carr is going to need a really good team around him to be able to win. He hasn't had that so far and he hasn't won as a result. It will only get harder to win if you give a QB on Carr's level a $40M per year extension.
Let's say there is a team willing to give up two first round picks or something close to that for Carr.
I am higher on Mariota than most and think he can have a second half career rebound. Am I sure of that? No. But, if I had the choice of Carr with a $40M per year extension or Mariota at significantly less money that could be spent elsewhere and two more 1s, I'd take Mariota and the picks.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Neither of us said that we wanted to trade carr. We said that IF. a stupid mega deal was offered it had to be considered. And my caveat was that he should play out his contract and be tagged, in order to see IF there was a stud college qb. No one is saying, TRADE CARR.Chadstroma said:
I agree with you... As I said before, it would have to be a king's ransom plus a can't miss QB in next year's draft to target, and right now I have no idea who that would be. I'm all for sticking with Carr and going to war. I've been here since 1980, my 27 year old daughter was 6 years old the last time the Raiders won a playoff game. I know and have lived the pain and heartache of the last 21 years.Chadstroma said:
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Ross Tucker said he heard JC Jackson to the Chargers.
Chaka
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Two interesting and unrelated salary cap/contract notes -
1. Mad Maxx's contract is the bee's knees. 5 yrs @ just under $20 MM per w/reasonable dead-cap team outs starting after year two. Consider that Mack (who's had slightly higher upside with Chicago, but WAY less consistency) signed for $23 MM per yr FOUR years ago!
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/maxx-crosby-29154/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/khalil-mack-14414/cash-earnings/
2. Kirk Cousins should be in jail for the way he's been stealing money from the NFL over the last five years. Dude went from making $684k per year on his 4-yr rookie deal to $27 MM per the last six years under franchise tags and short(er)-term deals with the Commandos and Vikings. And he just signed a one-yr extension that guarantees him $70 MM more over the next two years for total career earnings of $231 MM!!! Kirk freakin Cousins!
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/
1. Mad Maxx's contract is the bee's knees. 5 yrs @ just under $20 MM per w/reasonable dead-cap team outs starting after year two. Consider that Mack (who's had slightly higher upside with Chicago, but WAY less consistency) signed for $23 MM per yr FOUR years ago!
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/maxx-crosby-29154/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/khalil-mack-14414/cash-earnings/
2. Kirk Cousins should be in jail for the way he's been stealing money from the NFL over the last five years. Dude went from making $684k per year on his 4-yr rookie deal to $27 MM per the last six years under franchise tags and short(er)-term deals with the Commandos and Vikings. And he just signed a one-yr extension that guarantees him $70 MM more over the next two years for total career earnings of $231 MM!!! Kirk freakin Cousins!
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Some interesting things...
Adams apparently has told GB that he will not play on a tag.
Raiders have been said to be going after a few CB's... Jackson, Gilmore, Darious Williams (Chargers linked to both Jackson and Williams as well)
Raiders said to have interest in Allen Robinson and Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Not related to the Raiders really but the Jags are throwing around money fast.
Adams apparently has told GB that he will not play on a tag.
Raiders have been said to be going after a few CB's... Jackson, Gilmore, Darious Williams (Chargers linked to both Jackson and Williams as well)
Raiders said to have interest in Allen Robinson and Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Not related to the Raiders really but the Jags are throwing around money fast.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
he's also probably the number 1 guy, at his position. so he actually has a point. but he'll still play. it's all leverage. he'll most likely sign a 2 year deal with a huge signing bonus, in the 50M total value range.
you don't hear david njoku crying. nor schultz or geiseki or any of the others.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Maxx has a motor on him that doesn't stop. I actually think he hasn't unlocked all of his ability to rush yet. He has developed more skill to go along with that each year. Some may challenge that as his sacks went from 10 in rookie, to 7 and then 8 last year but his QB hits more than doubled. I love Mack still and being coupled with Bosa is dangerous but look at the numbers of Mack and Crosby and then look at the contracts. It clearly favors Crosby.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Every year the early moves for FA is a bit crazy. I am not sure why you go so hot and heavy for Kirk but God bless them.
massraider
Footballguy
Mack had one year of double digit sacks after leaving us.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
RT Marcus Cannon just cut by HOU. I think this would be a lovely signing.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Dolts expected to sign DT Austin Johnson. I thought that would be a good addition for us. Chargers are not playing around.
The only smoke I am seeing right now from us is Gilmore (SF said to be in the lead for him right now), Allen Robinson (fighting the Lions, Chefs and Browns for him), and Valdes-Scantling (half the lead is interested it seems). Also, Darious Williams, the other teams for him are the Jags and Dolts... the two teams spending the most right now... does that mean we have a better chance because they have spent so much money right now or less because they are seemingly willing to throw money at FA's like an old Billionaire at a strip joint going out with a blast. We supposedly went after JC Jackson but lost out.
The only smoke I am seeing right now from us is Gilmore (SF said to be in the lead for him right now), Allen Robinson (fighting the Lions, Chefs and Browns for him), and Valdes-Scantling (half the lead is interested it seems). Also, Darious Williams, the other teams for him are the Jags and Dolts... the two teams spending the most right now... does that mean we have a better chance because they have spent so much money right now or less because they are seemingly willing to throw money at FA's like an old Billionaire at a strip joint going out with a blast. We supposedly went after JC Jackson but lost out.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Seeing one report that we are interested in Jarvis Landry
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