2024 Summer of Soccer - Euro's, Copa America, Olympics, WCQing (4 Viewers)

[mr. furley]

the top 3-4 teams face each other in the semis and finals of 95% of tournaments and maybe there are 1-2 other teams that have a small chance for an upset now and again. soccer feels like that to me... at least now.

It's not like that in soccer. Right now, there are about 8-10 countries that can win a major tournament (World Cup / Euros / Copa America). BRA, ARG, COL, ENG, GER, FRA, ESP, ITA, POR. Then there are definite upsets where a team like DEN or CRO or URU can take out any of those top 10.

much larger pool in soccer than the other. but, i get what you're saying.

 

[SwampDawg]

It's a dead horse, but outside of turner getting wiped out- which was an obvious yellow- I don't think the ref missed much and ultimately got all the big calls right.

Or should we have hoped for the guy who did the Turkey Chech game, since euro refs are so wonderful?

I mostly agree but he also majorly botched stoppage time. +4 minutes when there were probably +12ish in reality. No yellows for time wasting when they kicked the ball into the stands after the whistle. And blew right at 4 minutes when they barely played half of that of the actual stoppage time.

Absolutely right there... 4 minutes is preposterous. And there were stoppages even during the 4 minutes that should've extended it.

Make that 2 clear mistakes.

Here's the problem, that is one very possible game changing mistake and another one that obviously hurts the team trying to come in a very unfair way. If he cards the guy on the Turner play does Weah still react that way? Maybe, maybe not. He set the tone of the game right there that it was going to be CONCACAF shenanigans as usual. Should the US know how to deal with them, yes, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a major snafu that changed the game. And then the extra time at the end was a joke.

Serious question is there a rating system on these officials? Say where coaches from teams in the tournament but not involved in the game are asked to rate them?

 

[gianmarco]

It's a dead horse, but outside of turner getting wiped out- which was an obvious yellow- I don't think the ref missed much and ultimately got all the big calls right.

Or should we have hoped for the guy who did the Turkey Chech game, since euro refs are so wonderful?

I mostly agree but he also majorly botched stoppage time. +4 minutes when there were probably +12ish in reality. No yellows for time wasting when they kicked the ball into the stands after the whistle. And blew right at 4 minutes when they barely played half of that of the actual stoppage time.

Absolutely right there... 4 minutes is preposterous. And there were stoppages even during the 4 minutes that should've extended it.

Make that 2 clear mistakes.

Here's the problem, that is one very possible game changing mistake and another one that obviously hurts the team trying to come in a very unfair way. If he cards the guy on the Turner play does Weah still react that way? Maybe, maybe not. He set the tone of the game right there that it was going to be CONCACAF shenanigans as usual. Should the US know how to deal with them, yes, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a major snafu that changed the game. And then the extra time at the end was a joke.

Serious question is there a rating system on these officials? Say where coaches from teams in the tournament but not involved in the game are asked to rate them?

This 100%.

Also, I think the ref made another major error that was probably even more game changing. I understand letting them play, not calling a lot of fouls. That's just how it goes sometimes. However, there HAS to be an accumulation card that comes out after a while.

We've seen teams hack Pulisic. Little stuff that doesn't rise to the level of a card. But, one player does it enough and you get a card. Well, that's exactly what was going on with Balogun last night. I know there were AT LEAST 2 instances, and I believe 3, early on where he was free and going to break and a Panamanian player had a hold of him. I'm not even talking trying to body him, but legit two arms grabbing Flo's arm and pulling him back making no attempt on the ball.

That HAS to be a card eventually and it wasn't.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I don't think reaching the finals in the last major tournament and losing in a pk shootout is a poor result. Disappointing, sure, but it's one match for all the marbles, anything can happen be it injuries, red card, etc.. I'd venture to guess that is the U.S. reached the finals in this tournament and lost in a pk, GGG would probably be extended. That is a good result in a major tournament.

We win the Gold Cup now and again. But we still underperform significantly. England has been disappointing since 1966.

 

[encaitar]

the top 3-4 teams face each other in the semis and finals of 95% of tournaments and maybe there are 1-2 other teams that have a small chance for an upset now and again. soccer feels like that to me... at least now.

It's not like that in soccer. Right now, there are about 8-10 countries that can win a major tournament (World Cup / Euros / Copa America). BRA, ARG, COL, ENG, GER, FRA, ESP, ITA, POR. Then there are definite upsets where a team like DEN or CRO or URU can take out any of those top 10.

much larger pool in soccer than the other. but, i get what you're saying.

Yep, but it's very much the same thing. The World Cup is nearly 100 years old now and only 8 teams have ever won it and that includes Uruguay who haven't been a real threat for it in 70 years. If you look through the quarterfinals of every World Cup, you'll see Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Argentina, Spain, and England show up a lot.

 

[NewlyRetired]

You guys honestly think it's the coach and not the players? Or the culture?

Yes. I do. I think many other coaches would get more out of this team.

I think that's delusional.

why?

Because it's never been a solution to out problem, sir. What coach do you think makes this team better?

I'm not really sure the point you are trying to make.

Good coaches elevate players. Good coaches make teams better than the sum of their parts. This transcends all sports. And often - across all sports - removing a coach that isn't getting it done can and does result in quick improvement.

Well if it is as simple as that then the US should hire a good coach to elevate this team. Not sure why they didn't come to that conclusion earlier.

Problem is the women will sue them if they hire a good coach. What a country.

Just up the pay of the USWNT coach. Isn't there a billionaire that can foot the $10m/year salary here????

Yea I don’t get the problem. They’re selling these usmnt seats for a 150 bucks a pop.

the Athletic had a recent article explaining how little US Soccer is making off of Copa. They made a ton hosting in 2016 but the business arrangement this go around left US Soccer with very little.

US Soccer will be making a TON for WC2026 though so even with some financial issues right now, they will be flush in coming years.

 

[TripItUp]

Sorry if discussed earlier, but is Berhalter gone if we lose to Uruguay?

 

[El Floppo]

Sorry if discussed earlier, but is Berhalter gone if we lose to Uruguay?

Was discussed. Even winning v URU may not get them out of group stage, which we all assumed was a tipping point for him losing his job.

But assuming anything about USSF is a losing battle.

 

[El Floppo]

It's a dead horse, but outside of turner getting wiped out- which was an obvious yellow- I don't think the ref missed much and ultimately got all the big calls right.

Or should we have hoped for the guy who did the Turkey Chech game, since euro refs are so wonderful?

I mostly agree but he also majorly botched stoppage time. +4 minutes when there were probably +12ish in reality. No yellows for time wasting when they kicked the ball into the stands after the whistle. And blew right at 4 minutes when they barely played half of that of the actual stoppage time.

Absolutely right there... 4 minutes is preposterous. And there were stoppages even during the 4 minutes that should've extended it.

Make that 2 clear mistakes.

Here's the problem, that is one very possible game changing mistake and another one that obviously hurts the team trying to come in a very unfair way. If he cards the guy on the Turner play does Weah still react that way? Maybe, maybe not. He set the tone of the game right there that it was going to be CONCACAF shenanigans as usual. Should the US know how to deal with them, yes, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a major snafu that changed the game. And then the extra time at the end was a joke.

Serious question is there a rating system on these officials? Say where coaches from teams in the tournament but not involved in the game are asked to rate them?

This 100%.

Also, I think the ref made another major error that was probably even more game changing. I understand letting them play, not calling a lot of fouls. That's just how it goes sometimes. However, there HAS to be an accumulation card that comes out after a while.

We've seen teams hack Pulisic. Little stuff that doesn't rise to the level of a card. But, one player does it enough and you get a card. Well, that's exactly what was going on with Balogun last night. I know there were AT LEAST 2 instances, and I believe 3, early on where he was free and going to break and a Panamanian player had a hold of him. I'm not even talking trying to body him, but legit two arms grabbing Flo's arm and pulling him back making no attempt on the ball.

That HAS to be a card eventually and it wasn't.

Great points.

I feel like refs at both tournaments have let a LOT go. so while I do agree with your points, I also think relative to what we're seeing, this guy did ok.

 

[El Floppo]

Agree w GGG here, even if I'm still confused about musahs absence.

"It's down to one moment," Berhalter said of the USMNT's second-half performance. "When you look at the stats, you look at the chances that we gave up, it was really only that one moment. The guy gets an open look, and we didn't deal with the first ball very well, we didn't deal with the second ball very well, and then [there's] too much space between our center-backs on the cross.

"But besides that, we're talking about very, very little production from Panama and really a tremendous effort by the guys that did get in there, work for each other, keep our shape, and keep moving."

 

[The Z Machine]

Sorry if discussed earlier, but is Berhalter gone if we lose to Uruguay?

I would certainly hope so.

 

[The Z Machine]

Agree w GGG here, even if I'm still confused about musahs absence.

"It's down to one moment," Berhalter said of the USMNT's second-half performance. "When you look at the stats, you look at the chances that we gave up, it was really only that one moment. The guy gets an open look, and we didn't deal with the first ball very well, we didn't deal with the second ball very well, and then [there's] too much space between our center-backs on the cross.

"But besides that, we're talking about very, very little production from Panama and really a tremendous effort by the guys that did get in there, work for each other, keep our shape, and keep moving."

Effort that got 0 points. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

 

[El Floppo]

Agree w GGG here, even if I'm still confused about musahs absence.

"It's down to one moment," Berhalter said of the USMNT's second-half performance. "When you look at the stats, you look at the chances that we gave up, it was really only that one moment. The guy gets an open look, and we didn't deal with the first ball very well, we didn't deal with the second ball very well, and then [there's] too much space between our center-backs on the cross.

"But besides that, we're talking about very, very little production from Panama and really a tremendous effort by the guys that did get in there, work for each other, keep our shape, and keep moving."

Effort that got 0 points. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

" The guys did great until they didn't" doesn't have the same ring

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

They should have thrashed Bolivia.

They did.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The really odd part of Weah’s action is that it is so out of character for him. He seems so level headed. Dest is clearly unstable but Weah has never given me that vibe in any way.

If he likes GGG, he is going to feel awful if he gets sacked.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I had the sense that Panama was very fortunate to get two goals off the little they created last night when I posted Wet and Bumpy Part II (where T&T scored off the flukiest Gonzalez(?) own goal and the once-in-a-lifetime bomb by T&T).

Sure enough... USA 1.11 xG 0.74 Panama.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Group C....
Part 1....
Thanks GGG

Uruguay advance with:
A win or tie
OR
A Panama loss or tie
OR
A loss by less than 4
OR
A loss by 4 or more, a Panama win and the combined margin of the two results is less than 7
OR
A loss by 4 or more, a Panama win and the combined margin equals exactly 7 and Panama doesn't outscore Uruguay by 6 or more.


So much for the easy one.

USA advance with.......
A win or tie AND a Panama loss or tie
OR
A win by 4 or more goals
OR
A win by less than 4 and a Panama win and Panama's margin of victory is not 2+ more than the USA's win margin
OR
A win by less than 4 and a Panama win and Panama's margin is exactly 2 more than the USA's win margin and the USA outscores Panama
OR
A loss by exactly 1 and a Panama loss by less than 7
OR
A loss by exactly 2 and a Panama loss by less than 6
OR
A loss by exactly 3 and a Panama loss by 2, 3, or 4
OR
A loss by exactly 4 and a Panama loss by 3
OR
A loss by exactly 1, a Panama loss by exactly 7, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 2, a Panama loss by exactly 6, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 3, a Panama loss by exactly 5, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 4, a Panama loss by exactly 4, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 5, a Panama loss by exactly 3, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 3+
OR
A loss by the exact score of 5-0 and Bolivia beats Panama by the exact score of 3-0.

So ends part 1.
I'll add the scenarios for the other two to this post later.

-QG

Panama scenarios (I hope these are right....)

Panama advance with
A win and a USA Loss/Tie
OR
A tie and a USA Loss
OR
A win by 6+ goals
OR
A win by less than 6 goals, a USA win and Panama's margin is 3+ more than the USA's win margin
OR
A win by less than 6 goals, a USA win and Panama's margin is exactly 2 more than the USA's win margin and USA doesn't outscore Panama
OR
A loss by exactly 1 goal and a USA Loss by 3+
OR
A loss by exactly 2 goals and a USA Loss by 4+

I think that covers it....

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Group C....
Part 1....
Thanks GGG

Uruguay advance with:
A win or tie
OR
A Panama loss or tie
OR
A loss by less than 4
OR
A loss by 4 or more, a Panama win and the combined margin of the two results is less than 7
OR
A loss by 4 or more, a Panama win and the combined margin equals exactly 7 and Panama doesn't outscore Uruguay by 6 or more.


So much for the easy one.

USA advance with.......
A win or tie AND a Panama loss or tie
OR
A win by 4 or more goals
OR
A win by less than 4 and a Panama win and Panama's margin of victory is not 2+ more than the USA's win margin
OR
A win by less than 4 and a Panama win and Panama's margin is exactly 2 more than the USA's win margin and the USA outscores Panama
OR
A loss by exactly 1 and a Panama loss by less than 7
OR
A loss by exactly 2 and a Panama loss by less than 6
OR
A loss by exactly 3 and a Panama loss by 2, 3, or 4
OR
A loss by exactly 4 and a Panama loss by 3
OR
A loss by exactly 1, a Panama loss by exactly 7, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 2, a Panama loss by exactly 6, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 3, a Panama loss by exactly 5, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 4, a Panama loss by exactly 4, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by exactly 5, a Panama loss by exactly 3, and Bolivia doesn't outscore the USA by 4+
OR
A loss by the exact score of 5-0 and Bolivia beats Panama by the exact score of 3-0.

So ends part 1.
I'll add the scenarios for the other two to this post later.

-QG

Panama scenarios (I hope these are right....)

Panama advance with
A win and a USA Loss/Tie
OR
A tie and a USA Loss
OR
A win by 6+ goals
OR
A win by less than 6 goals, a USA win and Panama's margin is 3+ more than the USA's win margin
OR
A win by less than 6 goals, a USA win and Panama's margin is exactly 2 more than the USA's win margin and USA doesn't outscore Panama
OR
A loss by exactly 1 goal and a USA Loss by 3+
OR
A loss by exactly 2 goals and a USA Loss by 4+

I think that covers it....

-QG

Bolivia scenarios:
Bolivia wins by 3+ goals , USA loses, and combined margin is 9+ goals
OR
Bolivia wins by 4+ goals, USA loses, combined margin is 8 goals, and Bolivia outscores USA by 4+ goals

I think that is it actually.

Fixing the USA scenario in THIS nest.

-QG

 

[El Floppo]

They should have thrashed Bolivia.

They did.

2-0 is not a thrashing. And may well bite the US if they can somehow beat URU but lack the GD because they could only score 2 against the worst team in the tournament.

 

[Redwes25]

I

Just tinkering, back of napkin stuff. Any feelings if this would have worked better after half time?

a 4-4-1

Both 4's are flat.

Scally........Richards......Ream........Lund

Aaronson......Musah......Weston.......Jedi

................................Balo (and when tired, replaced with Sargent)


Scally, Lund and Weston are told to stay at home at all costs. Aaronson and Jedi to run balls off.

Since normal passing patterns are limited in this formation with 10 men, that plays into Musah's hands (feet) where he is given free reign to dribble to break the lines and start any possible counters.

I think just swapping Gio out for Musah and keeping a 4-4-1 would've been fine. Let it roll and then start making adjustments subs as needed.

But ultimately the 5-3-1 wasn't terrible and did minimize them getting wide and pumping it into the box. That goal... Yeesh. Not a fault of the formation on that one.

They should have made these adjustments as soon as we got up a goal. I thought 5-3-1 worked fine as well but we should have jumped on that when we went up one. Reyna should have come out then. He is not a defensive player and looks a bit lost where they are playing him already. Mussah is perfect player to lead a break out of a tight box and strong defensively.

A good manager realizes the situation.

 

[B Maverick]

I didn't get to watch the game, but did see some moments through social media.

Ref missed the booking for the hit on Turner. Yes that set the tone for the game, but watching any other COPA match seems to be similar. Refs calling every 5th foul and then nothing after the 80'.
How the US wasn't prepared for this I do not understand. Plus this ref and this matchup? Losing your heads was not acceptable. That is on the players (Weah) AND GGG.

That was not a PK for the contact on CP (Ref got it right).
As I understand it you can not give a yellow through VAR, even when it says it wasn't a PK and was probably a dive. So not sure why people keep questioning that.

As with most US games under GGG, I never understand his subbing or in game adjustments (or lack thereof). His constant desire to preplan things and inability to change when that plan doesn't work constantly frustrates me. Turner's injury and having to sub him at the half, plus the red should have changed all his plans. WTF are you subbing 3 players at the half down a man? But Adams was preplanned so we had too (I've heard reports of a planned 45 and 60, but still)! As soon as Turner had to come out and you needed to make a change to help defensively (Gio), you leave Adams on.



And for those defending Southgate? His subbing lost the shootout. He is killing his attacking power with his player selection. And I don't care if Foden was EPL player of the year, it is not working so you either have to sit the EPL poy, the Bundesliga's record breaking scorer, or the La Liga/CL winner (I think he was La Liga poy too right?) and get the right balance going.

 

[Redwes25]

I know others mentioned this but I keep thinking back to the 2006 game with Italy. We were a man down against the best team in the world and held our own and at times looked like better team. The level of talent difference was so high but that team played so hard (though they didn’t get out of group either).

 

[jabarony]

…and tell him not to come back until he can finish like an adult.

 

[gianmarco]

I know a lot of this has already been said, but the game management/subs in this game are so head scratching. I think it was easily the worst by GGG in a long time, if not ever, and that's saying a lot.

1. The moment you go up 1-0 and you're down to 10 men already, formation should change IMMEDIATELY.
2. How does Musah never see the field in this game? I've been one of the most critical of his (even though I think he's very talented) due to the fact he just contributes so little offensively when you look at numbers over the long term (even being unlucky as he has), but THIS game and that situation? If ever there was a game that he'd be perfect for, this was it. His ability to dribble out of the MF and just give the US some added possession, time to breathe, and no need for another goal, this was his time. Reyna for him is about as obvious as it gets.
3. CCV was clearly not up for it. He needed to come off as the game progressed. Off day, whatever, bite the bullet and get him out.
4. Adams was sorely missed the 2nd half. Unless he was gassed, which I don't see, he should have played most if not all of the 2nd half and just plan on not playing him against Uruguay. Holding Panama to no more goals was far more important than beating Uruguay if you can manage the tie.
5. Balogun is having his best game as a Nat and he got pulled? Again, unless he's completely gassed, I don't see it.
6. If you're going to pull Balogun, how is it not Sargent that comes in for him due to his defensive work? This was NOT a game for Pepi in the last 20.


Any 1 or 2 of the above would be perplexing enough. ALL of them in such an important game and situation after the red card? Just indefensible, IMO.

The more I look at this, the more I think GGG is to blame for this loss moreso than Weah, and yes, I know I'll be in the minority there.

I don't hate GGG as much as others and have even defended him at times primarily because the players seem to want him there, and that matters a LOT to me. But, after last night, I don't think that's enough anymore. He needs to go, even if we have no capable replacement.

 

[The Z Machine]

As soon as Turner had to come out and you needed to make a change to help defensively (Gio), you leave Adams on.

100%. I get it that Adams isn't ready to go 90, but when you're up against the wall...

 

[The Z Machine]

I know others mentioned this but I keep thinking back to the 2006 game with Italy. We were a man down against the best team in the world and held our own and at times looked like better team. The level of talent difference was so high but that team played so hard (though they didn’t get out of group either).

I was at that match. SOOOOOOO emotional. And the party in Kiaserslautern was dope afterwards too. Took the last train out of there at like 2:00 AM after partying with people from everywhere.

Then we got stomped by Ghana after Papa Reyna ****ed up.

 

[The Z Machine]

1. The moment you go up 1-0 and you're down to 10 men already, formation should change IMMEDIATELY.
2. How does Musah never see the field in this game? I've been one of the most critical of his (even though I think he's very talented) due to the fact he just contributes so little offensively when you look at numbers over the long term (even being unlucky as he has), but THIS game and that situation? If ever there was a game that he'd be perfect for, this was it. His ability to dribble out of the MF and just give the US some added possession, time to breathe, and no need for another goal, this was his time. Reyna for him is about as obvious as it gets.
3. CCV was clearly not up for it. He needed to come off as the game progressed. Off day, whatever, bite the bullet and get him out.
4. Adams was sorely missed the 2nd half. Unless he was gassed, which I don't see, he should have played most if not all of the 2nd half and just plan on not playing him against Uruguay. Holding Panama to no more goals was far more important than beating Uruguay if you can manage the tie.
5. Balogun is having his best game as a Nat and he got pulled? Again, unless he's completely gassed, I don't see it.
6. If you're going to pull Balogun, how is it not Sargent that comes in for him due to his defensive work? This was NOT a game for Pepi in the last 20.

ALL OF THIS.

And that is why GGG needs to go.

 

[Redwes25]

I know others mentioned this but I keep thinking back to the 2006 game with Italy. We were a man down against the best team in the world and held our own and at times looked like better team. The level of talent difference was so high but that team played so hard (though they didn’t get out of group either).

I was at that match. SOOOOOOO emotional. And the party in Kiaserslautern was dope afterwards too. Took the last train out of there at like 2:00 AM after partying with people from everywhere.

Then we got stomped by Ghana after Papa Reyna ****ed up.

I try to forget that (or the even worse match against the Czechs)

 

[Redwes25]

I know a lot of this has already been said, but the game management/subs in this game are so head scratching. I think it was easily the worst by GGG in a long time, if not ever, and that's saying a lot.

1. The moment you go up 1-0 and you're down to 10 men already, formation should change IMMEDIATELY.
2. How does Musah never see the field in this game? I've been one of the most critical of his (even though I think he's very talented) due to the fact he just contributes so little offensively when you look at numbers over the long term (even being unlucky as he has), but THIS game and that situation? If ever there was a game that he'd be perfect for, this was it. His ability to dribble out of the MF and just give the US some added possession, time to breathe, and no need for another goal, this was his time. Reyna for him is about as obvious as it gets.
3. CCV was clearly not up for it. He needed to come off as the game progressed. Off day, whatever, bite the bullet and get him out.
4. Adams was sorely missed the 2nd half. Unless he was gassed, which I don't see, he should have played most if not all of the 2nd half and just plan on not playing him against Uruguay. Holding Panama to no more goals was far more important than beating Uruguay if you can manage the tie.
5. Balogun is having his best game as a Nat and he got pulled? Again, unless he's completely gassed, I don't see it.
6. If you're going to pull Balogun, how is it not Sargent that comes in for him due to his defensive work? This was NOT a game for Pepi in the last 20.


Any 1 or 2 of the above would be perplexing enough. ALL of them in such an important game and situation after the red card? Just indefensible, IMO.

The more I look at this, the more I think GGG is to blame for this loss moreso than Weah, and yes, I know I'll be in the minority there.

I don't hate GGG as much as others and have even defended him at times primarily because the players seem to want him there, and that matters a LOT to me. But, after last night, I don't think that's enough anymore. He needs to go, even if we have no capable replacement.

Perfectly summed up. The idea that they didn't adjust game plane after going up a goal is just crazy to me.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As I understand it you can not give a yellow through VAR, even when it says it wasn't a PK and was probably a dive. So not sure why people keep questioning that.

Is this correct? I feel like I've seen guys get yellows for diving after VAR was reviewing a pk before.

I think you can't start a VAR for a yellow, but if you're in there for something else you can give one. I'm not 100% on this though.

 

[B Maverick]

As I understand it you can not give a yellow through VAR, even when it says it wasn't a PK and was probably a dive. So not sure why people keep questioning that.

Is this correct? I feel like I've seen guys get yellows for diving after VAR was reviewing a pk before.

I think you can't start a VAR for a yellow, but if you're in there for something else you can give one. I'm not 100% on this though.

I don't recall seeing a yellow given except in instances where they are dropping it from a red.

Does anyone know for sure?

 

[AAABatteries]

read what the fans say about Southgate at the Euro's right now

To be fair, Southgate is not a very good manager - the criticism he receives for his dull style, and lack of being able to beat "good" teams is justified.

I would be disappointed if the US sacked Berhalter, and hired Southgate...

It is interesting that Southgate and GGG are similar - in my mind at least. Both kind of depend on results from the talent and not the tactics. Both seem to be good with player recruitment and as a man manager but neither seems very good at in game adjustments. And both ultimately set their teams up in formations that lead to very boring play.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As I understand it you can not give a yellow through VAR, even when it says it wasn't a PK and was probably a dive. So not sure why people keep questioning that.

Is this correct? I feel like I've seen guys get yellows for diving after VAR was reviewing a pk before.

I think you can't start a VAR for a yellow, but if you're in there for something else you can give one. I'm not 100% on this though.

I don't recall seeing a yellow given except in instances where they are dropping it from a red.

Does anyone know for sure?

This is a link from MLS, not sure if it's the same across all leagues. But I don't watch MLS and I think I've seen it before elsewhere too.

It cannot review any yellow cards or second yellow cards leading to a red, and it cannot review any free-kick offense outside the box, unless it is a red-card offense or if it leads to a goal or a penalty. VAR cannot review a yellow card, but it can lead to one. If a referee initially awards a penalty, only to review the incident and ascertain that the player made a meal out of it, he may decide to book him for diving.

SOCCER 101: VAR | St. Louis SC

Written by Zach Lowy 🇲🇽 Para leer en español, ver aquí. | 🇧🇦 Za čitanje na bosanskom, pogledajte ovdje.

www.stlcitysc.com

 

[AAABatteries]

This England team should be considered a failure if they don't win multiple trophies together because that's how good their talent level is IMO.

This seems like a ridiculously high bar to set. Competing against France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands and other top Euro teams plus Argentina and Brazil in WC. They do need to win something, however.

 

[gianmarco]

Couple other things.

1) Looking back, we've had poor showings consistently over the last year. The game against T&T where Dest got the red, we were up 1-0 and had won the first leg 3-0. However, we ended up losing that game 2-1. Against T&T. Even down a man, that can't happen.

We then got fortunate with a very, very late own goal against Jamaica in the semis (96th minute) to force it to overtime. This is the same Jamaica currently sitting last in their group with 1 goal scored and about to face Venezuela that hasn't lost yet.

We got spanked by Colombia. We were at least decent against Brazil. We should have done better against Bolivia.

Overall, just continuous underwhelming.


2. I don't know exactly where or how, but Malik Tillman needs to see the field. Guy has earned it. He should have come on vs Bolivia, IMO.

 

[AAABatteries]

I've somewhat defended GGG in the past and I was ok they retained him. I still don't think he's horrible and I do think this squad is soft and a tad overrated. But, I'm completely fine if they want to move on after COPA (no matter how it plays out). I think now would be the time to do it - but who do they get? I want somebody who plays attacking, relentless football.

 

[gianmarco]

I've somewhat defended GGG in the past and I was ok they retained him. I still don't think he's horrible and I do think this squad is soft and a tad overrated. But, I'm completely fine if they want to move on after COPA (no matter how it plays out). I think now would be the time to do it - but who do they get? I want somebody who plays attacking, relentless football.

@The Gator for coach?

 

[TennesseeJed]

The more I look at this, the more I think GGG is to blame for this loss moreso than Weah, and yes, I know I'll be in the minority there.

I am right with you.

Yes Weah was bad - but we took the lead, and even accounting for conceding the equalizer - our goal at a man down should have been to do no worse than a draw - and the game plan should have changed according.

And, while Weah is responsible for the Red - I still think the coaching staff shares in that blame also - it may seem obvious that Panama would do concacaf things - but coaches need to drill that into the players about how important it is not to react.

 

[TennesseeJed]

I've somewhat defended GGG in the past and I was ok they retained him. I still don't think he's horrible and I do think this squad is soft and a tad overrated. But, I'm completely fine if they want to move on after COPA (no matter how it plays out). I think now would be the time to do it - but who do they get? I want somebody who plays attacking, relentless football.

@The Gator for coach?

Gator is ready to jump in whenever needed:

x.com

x.com

 

[The Gator]

I've somewhat defended GGG in the past and I was ok they retained him. I still don't think he's horrible and I do think this squad is soft and a tad overrated. But, I'm completely fine if they want to move on after COPA (no matter how it plays out). I think now would be the time to do it - but who do they get? I want somebody who plays attacking, relentless football.

@The Gator for coach?

Shades of Brenden Rodger’s Liverpool teams. We’ll lose 6-4, but we’ll score goals.

 

[mr. furley]

I've somewhat defended GGG in the past and I was ok they retained him. I still don't think he's horrible and I do think this squad is soft and a tad overrated. But, I'm completely fine if they want to move on after COPA (no matter how it plays out). I think now would be the time to do it - but who do they get? I want somebody who plays attacking, relentless football.

@The Gator for coach?

Shades of Brenden Rodger’s Liverpool teams. We’ll lose 6-4, but we’ll score goals.

a look-in at @The Gator's training camp

 

[B Maverick]

We were at least decent against Brazil.

This, like the game vs England in the WC are overrating the US. Brazil was held by Costa Rica in a meaningful game and by the US in a friendly. BRazil is 6th in Conembol. They are not a bar to raise right now.

And I am on record saying that England never got out of first gear, didn't care about the match with the US and played out a drab affair. The US didn't pressure Harry Maguire into any mistakes and had a horrible plan. Overrating that game needs to stop.

 

[B Maverick]

As I understand it you can not give a yellow through VAR, even when it says it wasn't a PK and was probably a dive. So not sure why people keep questioning that.

Is this correct? I feel like I've seen guys get yellows for diving after VAR was reviewing a pk before.

I think you can't start a VAR for a yellow, but if you're in there for something else you can give one. I'm not 100% on this though.

I don't recall seeing a yellow given except in instances where they are dropping it from a red.

Does anyone know for sure?

This is a link from MLS, not sure if it's the same across all leagues. But I don't watch MLS and I think I've seen it before elsewhere too.

It cannot review any yellow cards or second yellow cards leading to a red, and it cannot review any free-kick offense outside the box, unless it is a red-card offense or if it leads to a goal or a penalty. VAR cannot review a yellow card, but it can lead to one. If a referee initially awards a penalty, only to review the incident and ascertain that the player made a meal out of it, he may decide to book him for diving.

SOCCER 101: VAR | St. Louis SC

Written by Zach Lowy 🇲🇽 Para leer en español, ver aquí. | 🇧🇦 Za čitanje na bosanskom, pogledajte ovdje.

www.stlcitysc.com

Thanks, that is interesting. It could just be an MLS thing. I feel like MLS has handled VAR a lot better than most leagues (several times better than the EPL for sure).

 

[NewlyRetired]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

 

[B Maverick]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

Or it's done in Spanish...

 

[Moe.]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

On top of that, Dr. Joe really brings nothing to the table in terms of analysis. I’m sure he’s a very nice man but holy smokes I do not understand why they keep him on for that.

 

[Major]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

Or it's done in Spanish...

You beat me to it. A lot needs to change with this process. They also should only allow captains to approach the ref much like the Euros. The way some of these Copa teams play I almost fear for the ref's livelihood.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

On top of that, Dr. Joe really brings nothing to the table in terms of analysis. I’m sure he’s a very nice man but holy smokes I do not understand why they keep him on for that.

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one that was thinking this. I don't think he's ever provided any insight of value. He just trips and stumbles over himself until the ref makes the announcement and then says he agrees, or waits for the announcers to give their view and then says he agrees. No idea what they're paying him for.

 

[B Maverick]

One thing about VAR that is clearly a mess in COPA is the idea that the ref is going to explain what happened. I swear, every single time they have tried, they either forgot to turn on the mike or the connection was not made to the speakers or something else went wrong.

The poor announcers are always like "ahhhhh...we can't hear what he said"

On top of that, Dr. Joe really brings nothing to the table in terms of analysis. I’m sure he’s a very nice man but holy smokes I do not understand why they keep him on for that.

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one that was thinking this. I don't think he's ever provided any insight of value. He just trips and stumbles over himself until the ref makes the announcement and then says he agrees, or waits for the announcers to give their view and then says he agrees. No idea what they're paying him for.

He is poor this year. He's been ok in the past but something about this tourney for him. He was explaining how the ref could still decide to change a call after review, while watching the team take the free kick and restart the game. He makes me wish we had Clattenburg saying things instead.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

I know others mentioned this but I keep thinking back to the 2006 game with Italy. We were a man down against the best team in the world and held our own and at times looked like better team. The level of talent difference was so high but that team played so hard (though they didn’t get out of group either).

I was at that match. SOOOOOOO emotional. And the party in Kiaserslautern was dope afterwards too. Took the last train out of there at like 2:00 AM after partying with people from everywhere.

Then we got stomped by Ghana after Papa Reyna ****ed up.

I try to forget that (or the even worse match against the Czechs)

If I remember right, we gave up a goal from like 40 meters out.