Apple Jack
Footballguy
Can a renter tell a cop with no probable cause to gtfo the property?
You can't make a claim for any of this from that video.That initial officer:
1) Is clearly racially profiling
2) Unable to evaluate a situation properly when he escalated it by calling backup and having his gun out.
This is not the line of work he should be in.
I'm not making it from that video. I'm using common sense.You can't make a claim for any of this from that video.
The video did not even start until it escalated.
Also fairFair.
Also fair.
More than fair.
It is if the officer is engaged in an unconstitutional detention at the time. Imo.
Hey, I'm with you.Also fair
When an officer, or a group of officers, are standing near you shouting for you to drop whats in your hand is not the best time to argue the Constitution. Jmo
Did his ID list the address of the property he was on as his residence?I'm not making it from that video. I'm using common sense.
1. No chance the officer is asking a white person sitting on the porch if he belongs there. Just doesn't happen.
2. The guy handed over his ID. It was obviously not in any threatening manner or he would have already been in handcuffs. The fact the officer decided to "investigate further" when he shouldn't have started to begin with shows further lack of judgment
I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that the above is accurate without needing to see any further house video.
Doesn't need to.Did his ID list the address of the property he was on as his residence?
If there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed, an individual is not required to provide identification, even in "Stop and ID" states.
Doesn't need to.
The officer needs to have reasonable suspicion of a crime to ask for him to produce an ID and detain him. Sitting on a porch isn't that. It's against our rights as citizens here to be stopped and expected to produce ID just because an officer asks without suspicion of criminal behavior. They already acknowledged that he sitting on his patio when he was approached. He would be completely in his right to not give any ID, tell him to #### off, and go back in his house if he wanted.
You are again making the assumption about how this began.I'm not making it from that video. I'm using common sense.
1. No chance the officer is asking a white person sitting on the porch if he belongs there. Just doesn't happen.
2. The guy handed over his ID. It was obviously not in any threatening manner or he would have already been in handcuffs. The fact the officer decided to "investigate further" when he shouldn't have started to begin with shows further lack of judgment
I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that the above is accurate without needing to see any further house video.
I sincerely doubt you have done enough research to conclude "no chance" or "doesn't happen" to white people. It's not a type of story the media cares about.1. No chance the officer is asking a white person sitting on the porch if he belongs there. Just doesn't happen.
I read other articles about this. Here is oneYou are again making the assumption about how this began.
Was the officer responding to call about suspicious activity or crime? We have no idea. How did he approach them? We have no idea. How long did it take before the kid started filming? We have no idea.
I did not even make it to the ID part... within 60 seconds you see the guy isn't complying with repeated (and repeated and repeated) simple instructions, and a dude in hysterics yelling through the window.
I don't know why people are having a hard time with this concept - do what they tell you to do, especially something as simple as "drop it". Not complying with simple commands from police officers is a good way to make a simple situation complicated.
No one called that in.The Boulder Police Department said in a statement Monday that one of its officers observed a man sitting in a partially enclosed patio area behind a “private property” sign at 8:30 a.m. Friday and asked if he was allowed to be there.
And I sincerely doubt you realize what people with dark colored skin go through throughout their life that white people don't.I sincerely doubt you have done enough research to conclude "no chance" or "doesn't happen" to white people. It's not a type of story the media cares about.
Sounds like two people wanted to setup some cops.I did not even make it to the ID part... within 60 seconds you see the guy isn't complying with repeated (and repeated and repeated) simple instructions, and a dude in hysterics yelling through the window.
Immediate compliance is my own policy. The police are in fact the authority, so yes, you submit to it.As usual the "I NEED MY GUNNZZZ BECAUSE I MIIGHT NEED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT" crowd insists on immediate submissive compliance when it's a minority.
A little more about having to produce an ID when asked.
How could Boulder have made it to 2019 without ever learning about racism before? Well, it’s a pretty easy thing to do in an 88 percent white city that self-reports an African-American population of just 1.1 percent. In a three-part series published in July 2018, the Daily Camera explored the city’s decades-long stall on racial progress.
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. The typical insult of "oblivious, racist white man" doesn't apply to me. Sorry.And I sincerely doubt you realize what people with dark colored skin go through throughout their life that white people don't.
How about a link to anyone posting that only a minority should obey a direct command from a police officer?As usual the "I NEED MY GUNNZZZ BECAUSE I MIIGHT NEED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT" crowd insists on immediate submissive compliance when it's a minority.
So if there are dumb and abusive police in Boulder, it would seem that the odds of them being dumb and abusive to their white population would happen a fair enough amount of the time.A little more about having to produce an ID when asked.
So, unless this officer goes by and asks every person he sees sitting on a patio with a "private property" sign if they belong there, then this is the very definition of racial profiling.
From the earlier article:
I would get uppity too if it happened to me, but once it went to escalate, I would comply before I become a world star video. But I am generally a comply person too, so I am talking out of both sides of my mouth.It's very easy for white people to demand compliance, but I, as a white male, would get pretty "uppity" if a cop drove up to my front lawn while I was trimming the hedges and asked to see my ID, and then engaged me in a stand off because I wasn't being compliant enough. Leave me the #### alone!
That sort of thing would NEVER happen to me, but it happens to black men all the time. Why are the rules different for black people? Why is this harassment, and in some cases murder, tolerated? In responding to this harassment and profiling, why do blacks need to be more compliant, docile, and polite if they are guaranteed equal rights of citizenship? Is this treatment indicative of some remnants from our shared history? What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
No argument here. I'm thinking he may be a white guy who doesn't understand he nearly got his buddy killed.Finally had a chance to watch that video. This whole thing is no issue at all if those two guys aren't complete jags.
The guy filming it is a complete turd. At 8:33 ish he calls the officers a bunch of (word that starts with f and rhymes with maggots).
I can totally understand the frustration and the anger in these situations and they shouldn't be that way. However, if simply complying (no matter if there is a reason or no reason to be searched/asked for ID/etc) allows there to be no confrontation and no deaths then why not do it? As someone posted earlier, if the search/detention was a problem then take the legal actions after the fact.It's very easy for white people to demand compliance, but I, as a white male, would get pretty "uppity" if a cop drove up to my front lawn while I was trimming the hedges and asked to see my ID, and then engaged me in a stand off because I wasn't being compliant enough. Leave me the #### alone!
That sort of thing would NEVER happen to me, but it happens to black men all the time. Why are the rules different for black people? Why is this harassment, and in some cases murder, tolerated? In responding to this harassment and profiling, why do blacks need to be more compliant, docile, and polite if they are guaranteed equal rights of citizenship? Is this treatment indicative of some remnants from our shared history? What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
100% disagree.Finally had a chance to watch that video. This whole thing is no issue at all if those two guys aren't complete jags.
The guy filming it is a complete turd. At 8:33 ish he calls the officers a bunch of (word that starts with f and rhymes with maggots).
Yep, common sense.What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
Great post.It's very easy for white people to demand compliance, but I, as a white male, would get pretty "uppity" if a cop drove up to my front lawn while I was trimming the hedges and asked to see my ID, and then engaged me in a stand off because I wasn't being compliant enough. Leave me the #### alone!
That sort of thing would NEVER happen to me, but it happens to black men all the time. Why are the rules different for black people? Why is this harassment, and in some cases murder, tolerated? In responding to this harassment and profiling, why do blacks need to be more compliant, docile, and polite if they are guaranteed equal rights of citizenship? Is this treatment indicative of some remnants from our shared history? What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
I think he was referring to this specific incident. It would not have escalated to where it got to if the guy just complied completely from the start.100% disagree.
The issue started before that camera is rolling. It's most definitely an issue when a cop asks a black man sitting on a porch if he's supposed to be there. It's most definitely an issue when he's on a college campus, then provides a college ID, and is on a porch at 8:30am on a Friday with a garbage clamp and a white bucket and explains he's cleaning his yard and an officer has his gun drawn and calls for backup at that point.
We've all seen what a garbage picker upper looks like. It's a pretty obvious tool that every single one of us has seen at one point in our lives. I can tell that's what he's holding from a ####ty video shot in landportrait mode. For the officer to describe that as a "blunt object" and demand he put it down is just plain nonsense. To have his gun drawn is inexcusable. Especially once 8 police officers had him surrounded in his front lawn. Put the ####### gun away.
To claim this is "no issue at all" is exactly why it's so hard to eliminate racism and racial profiling. It's a BIG issue.
Until I see the entire video this is what my money is on.Sounds like two people wanted to setup some cops.
The guy somehow got his college ID into the hands of the police officer. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he complied "from the start". At what point is it enough when the cop keeps taking a non-issue further and turns it into an issue where we can say the student has done enough?I think he was referring to this specific incident. It would not have escalated to where it got to if the guy just complied completely from the start.
That isn't to say that the cop was correct in his escalation or the way he handled thing. It is only saying if there was compliance it would not have gotten to the point it did. There is obviously a systemic problem that is being escalated by all parties. Everyone is in the wrong to some degree and nothing will change as long as these incidents keep getting escalated.
I can strap my AK47 to my back and walk into Starbucks but it doesn’t mean It’s a wise decision.Fair.
Also fair.
More than fair.
It is if the officer is engaged in an unconstitutional detention at the time. Imo.
He did comply though by initially handing the officer his id. How much complying does one need to do while cleaning up trash in broad daylight?I think he was referring to this specific incident. It would not have escalated to where it got to if the guy just complied completely from the start.
That isn't to say that the cop was correct in his escalation or the way he handled thing. It is only saying if there was compliance it would not have gotten to the point it did. There is obviously a systemic problem that is being escalated by all parties. Everyone is in the wrong to some degree and nothing will change as long as these incidents keep getting escalated.
Oh, you have video of that? Can you share the link with the rest of us? You seem to have the inside scoop on all the facts.The guy somehow got his college ID into the hands of the police officer. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he complied "from the start".
Are you being obtuse?Oh, you have video of that? Can you share the link with the rest of us? You seem to have the inside scoop on all the facts.
The man, whose identity has not been released, told the officer he lived and worked in the building, and presented his school identification card, but the officer detained him to investigate further.
Of course.What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
I get it but how dense can this cop be? The optics are awful. He's a cop in a very liberal college town - he's oblivious to the current social environment in this country?You are again making the assumption about how this began.
Was the officer responding to call about suspicious activity or crime? We have no idea. How did he approach them? We have no idea. How long did it take before the kid started filming? We have no idea.
I did not even make it to the ID part... within 60 seconds you see the guy isn't complying with repeated (and repeated and repeated) simple instructions, and a dude in hysterics yelling through the window.
I don't know why people are having a hard time with this concept - do what they tell you to do, especially something as simple as "drop it". Not complying with simple commands from police officers is a good way to make a simple situation complicated.
Yes. All except the absurd last part in quotesIt's very easy for white people to demand compliance, but I, as a white male, would get pretty "uppity" if a cop drove up to my front lawn while I was trimming the hedges and asked to see my ID, and then engaged me in a stand off because I wasn't being compliant enough. Leave me the #### alone!
That sort of thing would NEVER happen to me, but it happens to black men all the time. Why are the rules different for black people? Why is this harassment, and in some cases murder, tolerated? In responding to this harassment and profiling, why do blacks need to be more compliant, docile, and polite if they are guaranteed equal rights of citizenship? Is this treatment indicative of some remnants from our shared history? What if the roles were reversed and black cops treated white men this way - would you still be demanding compliance and "yessir, right away sir, please and thank you for detaining me in this manner sir"?
A+ post.A couple years ago, a neighborhood kid was helping my neighbors change out the storm windows on their second floor. He's a good kid who helps them with yardwork, shoveling, etc. He borrowed my ladder and was working away when the cops stopped by to speak with him. The cops spoke with him for a few minutes then left. I spoke with the kid and he was sad it happened. I live in a city with high racial tension. The past year we've had several police gunfire fatalities and several innocent/unarmed black people shot by police. We had "riots" in a city neighborhood 2 years ago following a police shooting.
My take is this: I'm happy my neighbors are vigilant and will call the police if they see something suspicious. I have two young kids and am very thankful for all the hard work the police do to protect us. I would never presume to be able to put myself in their shoes and judge their conduct. That said, its very sad these types of incidents happen. These cops did a poor job. At the same time, the student is not without blame. The main disagreement I have with opinions in here is those who paint it as a simple, right/wrong equation. Its more than that. Its a very difficult, complex situation that I'm thankful I don't have to deal with on a daily basis.
Would be shocked if he gets anything but vacation time. Same if he shot him.I get it but how dense can this cop be? The optics are awful. He's a cop in a very liberal college town - he's oblivious to the current social environment in this country?
https://www.boulderpdapp.com/news/c/0/i/31397207/update-internal-affairs-investigation-over-march-1-police-contact Interested to see the outcome of the investigation
I'm not sure what happened between the ID exchange and the beginning of the video where all I see is a man screaming and isn't complying with the officer's commands. You don't know for sure either.Are you being obtuse?
At the end of the video, the officer handed the student back his ID. During that 16 minute video, do you think the officer somehow stole it from him using magic? I don't need video to know the student gave him his ID since there's absolutely no other explanation for how it ended up in the police officer's possession.
Plus, again, from the article I posted later:
People get outraged all the time over snippets of video that don't tell the entire story.
It is?this ^
That video is completely out of context
I agree with all of this.I watched 2 mins of the video, im not watching it for 16 minutes.
The guy in the yard shouting " no! I'm not doing what you tell me to do until you drop your gun" isn't very smart. Imo
And the guy with the camera was not helping. At all
And dropping what is in your hand when an officer tells you to is not "giving up your rights". Imo
You are omitting the key pieces of context.. are you serious?It is?
-- It's 16 minutes long
-- I see a black man with a bucket and trash clamp in front of where he lives
-- I see multiple police officers, one with a pistol drawn and another with a shotgun for almost the entirety of the video
-- I see an officer hand him his ID at the end that was obviously given to him before
-- I see officers disperse when someone else arrives and mentions profiling and dealing with it later without arresting him or ticketing him or fining him. And most importantly, without apologizing to him.
What, exactly, is out of context?
It's amazing the mental gymnastics that takes place sometimes to excuse poor behavior.
They didn't shoot him.I agree with all of this.
Having said that, the police were 100% in the wrong. It's like the 7 other cops were just itching to shoot a brother, so they kept standing around hoping something would go down that would justify them firing their weapons at him.