Thanks. We'll just disagree. That would be a pretty good trick if they could be kicked out of the party and still run as the party's nominee. All good.
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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Thanks. We'll just disagree. That would be a pretty good trick if they could be kicked out of the party and still run as the party's nominee. All good.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
See, as much as I think DeSantis would be a formidable candidate, this is what I think represents his biggest hurdle. I just can't see Trump's ego allowing him to fully endorse anyone else, especially given how invested he is in perpetuating the fiction that he never actually lost. Imagine that DeSantis goes on to beat Biden, and we're hearing all about how he did the thing Trump failed to do. That would drive Trump absolutely crazy.
In any event, it does not appear an endorsement will be forthcoming anytime soon.
The Commish
Footballguy
To be fair....we KNOW we aren't getting the bold so this is a bit of a non sequitur. I think if we could guarantee a government that enacted policies that voters elected them to enact we'd choose that. We know that's not what we get and we know that gridlock is better than what we get....sadly.
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It means many Republicans would rather have had Trump in as President even if involved a overturning the actual results of an election or overlooking their oath to the Constitution. I had a cousin tell me in 2016 that even if Trump did something illegal to get elected at least Hillary didn’t get elected.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
When I drive around my state, I see flags and bumper stickers for Trump 2024. "No more Bull####" and "Don't blame me, I voted for Trump." Literally huge flags. these people are loud and proud. At the fair this summer, kids running around in Trump 2024 flags. The guy running that booth was having a great time.
Again, I hope those of you that believe that these folks are a few enough to not convey the need to kiss the ring are right. Nothing posted here yet seems like anything other than wishful thinking by folks that want to believe their party is not controlled by these folks.
Again, I hope those of you that believe that these folks are a few enough to not convey the need to kiss the ring are right. Nothing posted here yet seems like anything other than wishful thinking by folks that want to believe their party is not controlled by these folks.
The Commish
Footballguy
Ha....we have a weekly parade....every Friday. Though, I understand where I live and I try not to project my anecdotal life experience onto the entirety of his supporters.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Then you should vote for the party that promises to minimize policy changes. I'm not going to do that because I think the country has some formidable issues to resolve and they're not going to be resolved if we keep electing a legislative body that can't address them without overwhelming majorities.
This is a major reason behind our continuing slippage in the global democracy rankings.
rockaction
Footballguy
Do you mean slip in standard and quality of life indexes or do you mean slip in the global democracy rankings as a democracy?
I'm a little confused. Not that either is necessarily wrong, I just don't understand what you're trying to specify that we're slipping in.
I agree. I don't see it ever actually happening with Trump endorsing anyone else. But if I've learned one thing over the last few years, it's don't count anything out.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm not really following this thread, but thought it might be relevant. Message to McConnel, get on board or step aside.
Lindsey Graham just threatened Mitch McConnell over Donald Trump
"Elections are about the future. If you want to be a Republican leader in the House or the Senate, you have to have a working relationship with Donald Trump. Can Senator McConnell effectively work with the leader of the Republican party, Donald Trump? He is the most consequential Republican since Ronald Reagan. It's his nomination if he wants it. ... Can Senator McConnell effectively work with the leader of the Republican party, Donald Trump? ...
"I am not going to vote for anybody for leader of the Senate as a Republican unless they can prove to me that they can advocate an 'America First' agenda and have a working relationship with Donald Trump because if you can't do that you will fail."
Lindsey Graham just threatened Mitch McConnell over Donald Trump
"Elections are about the future. If you want to be a Republican leader in the House or the Senate, you have to have a working relationship with Donald Trump. Can Senator McConnell effectively work with the leader of the Republican party, Donald Trump? He is the most consequential Republican since Ronald Reagan. It's his nomination if he wants it. ... Can Senator McConnell effectively work with the leader of the Republican party, Donald Trump? ...
"I am not going to vote for anybody for leader of the Senate as a Republican unless they can prove to me that they can advocate an 'America First' agenda and have a working relationship with Donald Trump because if you can't do that you will fail."
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Some of the factors that go into the rankings are how well the system represents the electorate and the functionality of the government in enacting policies with popular support. Ease of voting is another component, iirc.
The filibuster just befuddles democracy advocates in other modern and more functional democracies, seeing as how it compounds the problem of a system that already grants disproportionate power to voting blocs which don't win national majorities.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
NYT currently reporting that the Republican National Committee is requesting that the party's 2024 candidates sign a pledge refusing to participate in the traditional presidential debates.
Those debates have never been particularly useful to me but I'm curious about their reasoning here.
Those debates have never been particularly useful to me but I'm curious about their reasoning here.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I recall the Dems later using clips and quotes from the GOP debates against Trump. Marco Rubio had some nice zingers.
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dkp993
Footballguy
Same where I live (a fairly large town in So-Cal). There are 3 or 4 “pop up” (though they are there basically everyday) Trump merch stands around town and a seemingly endless stream of lifted trucks flying Trump 2024, LGB, F Biden, etc etc flags. Lots of bumper stickers too.
dkp993
Footballguy
He’s been saying this for a long while. He said last year that there was no GOP without Trump leading it. It’s why it baffles me when there are those that say he only lives in the Dems heads.I was out at lunch and heard Lindsey Graham on the radio. He said straight up that Donald Trump is the head of the Republican Party.
I don't think anyone is denying there are folks like Graham who think this. It's not just "in the Dems heads". That's a fact. You can see Graham's quote right there.
And clearly, lots of people think this as you can see in the poll results.
I think what people have questioned is if everyone in the entire party thinks Donald Trump controls everything. Whether it's actually true that unless you bend the knee to Trump, you're out of the party as folks have said.
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Yes. This has been talked about and totally relevant.
I think what will be interesting is if someone like Mitch McConnell who clearly is opposed to Trump will be able to survive. We'll see.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
You are taking that quite literally. I don’t believe anyone is claiming that everyone in the party thinks that. But a large part of it clearly do…and the right people apparently if you want power.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
If you accept the thesis that the Republican political machine is leaps and bounds ahead of the Democratic political machine, as measured by its ability to manage messaging through social media, there is zero upside in participation in debates or other communication platforms that teeter on the brink of honest information exchange.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
From a Fox News article:
The RNC’s letter, which was first reported by the New York Times, was fueled by longstanding complaints from then-President Donald Trump and GOP officials over how the 2020 presidential debates were conducted. And the letter was sent after months of talks between the RNC and the commission.
Does anyone have a list of their "longstanding complaints"?
Nugget
Footballguy
Endorsements by Donald Trump
Trump has 80+ endorsements after he left office. Candidates are fighting for his endorsement. Those that have opposed Trump have faced censure from the constituents. We'll see in primaries later this year how Republican candidates feel about Trump (distance or embrace) and how the voters respond.
Trump has 80+ endorsements after he left office. Candidates are fighting for his endorsement. Those that have opposed Trump have faced censure from the constituents. We'll see in primaries later this year how Republican candidates feel about Trump (distance or embrace) and how the voters respond.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
The more rural areas surrounding Burlington VT area. Especially St. Albans which is like 30 minutes North. The fair was the Addison County Fair which is an hour South. Downtown Burlington and UVM are of course very liberal places. And of course not every builder/tradesperson, farmer and auto mechanic has a flag but that's more-or less the demographic.
The General
Footballguy
To the original question: Heavy majority of people in here that identify as Liberal / Independent mostly agree that Don runs the party. Conservative less so but even among those it's pretty much 50/50 when considering people in the fence.
Hopefully 2 more years of unhinged comments about rigged elections pushes more conservative voters away and we won't see Don on any ballot.
Hopefully 2 more years of unhinged comments about rigged elections pushes more conservative voters away and we won't see Don on any ballot.
Dem debates definitely was and is used against them-- eg. Kamala comments about Biden racism
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yeah, it's pretty obvious why that's the case.
What's the point when the mainstream media is going to demonize you every single time?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
DeSantis would win.Joe Bryant said:
zoonation
Footballguy
Neither de Santis or Haley is running if Don runs. Will not happen.Joe Bryant said:
Ask your pals what makes them think that Don would step aside and endorse either one of these candidates (or anybody)?
The man is a malignant narcissist who lives in a delusional world where he thinks he won the election. The only thing he has left is avenging the humiliation of that (illegitimate in his mind) loss. He will never let someone else steal his opportunity.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. My friends didn't say they think Trump will step aside. My friend just asked me hypothetically what we thought would be the result of the election if Trump dropped out and fully endorsed DeSantis? Hope that helps.
zoonation
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
IMO, he doesn't control the party. There are a lot of voters who happen to be Republican who like him a lot. Republican Party politicians know that they have to give credence to him when it comes to public-facing matters where they want to project a specific image to voters, like all politicians do with many issues. But I don't think they really care too much about him aside from that. That concern surely weighs heavily on many pols heads and likely much more than they would want, so in that sense, he can exert influence. But to a large degree, these politicians are using Trump and his popularity with some voters.
zoonation
Footballguy
Kevin McCarthy, leader of the house GOP, is humiliating himself by twisting himself into a pretzel to walk back his (honest) takedown of Trump for 1/6 back in Jan, 2021.
Why? Because he has no chance to be speaker next year if he doesn’t.
But Trump doesn’t control the party.
Why? Because he has no chance to be speaker next year if he doesn’t.
But Trump doesn’t control the party.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Lol. Talk about gerrymandering. The more representative numbers for Conservatives are 16-9 disagree/agree.The General said:
In other words, Conservatives who have an opinion disagree by a large margin.
So in presidential polls do you also manipulate Undecideds into one party or another depending on which one supports your argument?
The General
Footballguy
On the fence wasn't significant in the other 2 groups. On the fence could go either way, perhaps they are gathering more information or think it is more complex than how the question was worded.
I would look at the language of how a poll was constructed to determine how I would look at the results.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
I'll be would be happy to see those "on fence people" moved to a "disagree" in future polls so we can see this guy bounced from the game.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
We’ll see how it plays out if he runs. I look forward to how this is the Dems fault explanation if he gets the nom.Me too. Plus we'd get an added bonus of not having to fudge numbers.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
You’re talking about different things. Primary debates are organized by the RNC/DNC in partnership with the networks hosting them. General election debates are organized by the Commission on Public Debates, which sets dates, formats and ground rules well in advance of either party choosing its nominee. The RNC is talking about boycotting the latter. That would likely mean we would go back to the pre-CPD days where campaigns would negotiate debates with each other. Sometimes (1964-72) that meant there were no debates at all. In 1980 there was only one debate, and it took place a week before the election.Leroy Hoard said:
From what I can tell, some of the RNC’s complaints may have merit (the first debate shouldn’t take place after millions of people have always cast an early ballot) but this mostly sounds like an effort to mollify Trump, who is still angry about bombing the first debate in 2020 and thinks all the moderators were biased against him.
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massraider
Footballguy
I don't think that'll be that interesting.Joe Bryant said:
He's the most powerful Republican there is, aside from Trump, and he's older than carbon, and is in IDGAF mode.
Mitch has already survived.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Incumbent presidents almost always lose the first debate, because they've spent four years surrounded by people smooching their butt, and all of a sudden they're up on stage with a guy who's throwing punches.
But in Trump's case he also couldn't stop himself from acting like a huge jerk. I will never forget a moment in the first debate: my father-in-law had passed away from Covid a few weeks beforehand, and when Biden started talking about the families with an empty spot at the dinner table, who hadn't even had a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones, I legitimately started bawling (I remember thinking, "Am I really crying at a freakin' presidential debate?)
At that very moment, Trump interrupted him to snarl, "It would have been worse with you, Joe." And I swear to God I've never wanted to punch someone so badly in my life.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Next Poll: How wet is water?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I agree that there has been good discussion in this thread but the influence DJT has on the GOP is profound and is undeniable.
We've had some useful and interesting (at least I think) discussion on this.
We'll have to disagree as I do think it's interesting.
The sentiment seems to mostly be Donald Trump controls the party and to be part of the party you must completely yield to Trump.
Except for a person in the party actually holding office who has the most influence over office holding people in the party. He opposes and infuriates Trump but it's all ok.
That's super interesting to me.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
90% of Republicans in Congress are trying to sweep 1/6 under the rug to protect Trump.greenmountaingoat said:
We know what they really think about it, because many of them told us on 1/6. Yet here we are.
It's pretty clear who controls the Republican Party.
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massraider
Footballguy
These people have jobs they don't want to lose.
They are afraid if they oppose Trump, they might lose their job. He might endorse their primary opponent, and that's all she wrote. This is where his power comes from. He doesn't control the entire GOP, every conservative voter isn't beholden to him. But if he backs your opponent, the smaller group who DO blindly back him can win elections.
Mitch doesn't have this fear.
You asking if the 79 year old minority leader who has no chance of being primaried will survive isn't interesting, because it's already answered.
Pointing to Mitch and asking what about him, that's where words like disingenuous start getting used, because it's pretty clear he's not a typical Republican, and few politicians of any kind enjoy his current job security.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
For many of them, I don't believe its trying to protect Trump but rather they don't want to piss him off. You see how quickly Graham and McCarthy changed their tune in the days following J6. McCarthy literally flew down to Mar-A-Lago to bend the knee and beg forgiveness.
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