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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)

I identify mostly Independent: Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Rep

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massraider said:
These people have jobs they don't want to lose. 

They are afraid if they oppose Trump, they might lose their job. He might endorse their primary opponent, and that's all she wrote. This is where his power comes from. He doesn't control the entire GOP, every conservative voter isn't beholden to him. But if he backs your opponent, the smaller group who DO blindly back him can win elections. 

Mitch doesn't have this fear. 

You asking if the 79 year old minority leader who has no chance of being primaried will survive isn't interesting, because it's already answered. 

Pointing to Mitch and asking what about him, that's where words like disingenuous start getting used, because it's pretty clear he's not a typical Republican, and few politicians of any kind enjoy his current job security.  
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On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to find something interesting with how he's able to go against the trend without it being "disingenuous" or somehow in bad faith. But unfortunately, that's how the forum works. I get it. 

 
Amused to Death said:
For many of them, I don't believe its trying to protect Trump but rather they don't want to piss him off. You see how quickly Graham and McCarthy changed their tune in the days following J6. McCarthy literally flew down to Mar-A-Lago to bend the knee and beg forgiveness.
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McCarthy bent over so far backwards trying to retract his "Trump bears responsibility" speech it is surprising he is still able to walk.   It was like he looked around the room and realized the rest of the Republican party wasn't jumping off the Trump train with him. 

He had no choice but to fly down and promise Trump that he will take back what he said about 1/6 and refuse to cooperate with any investigation. 

I would almost feel sad for him if he wasn't such a weasel.

 
Joe Bryant said:
On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to find something interesting with how he's able to go against the trend without it being "disingenuous" or somehow in bad faith. But unfortunately, that's how the forum works. I get it. 
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It's like asking if Tom Brady is a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl. 

 
Godsbrother said:
McCarthy bent over so far backwards trying to retract his "Trump bears responsibility" speech it is surprising he is still able to walk.   It was like he looked around the room and realized the rest of the Republican party wasn't jumping off the Trump train with him. 

He had no choice but to fly down and promise Trump that he will take back what he said about 1/6 and refuse to cooperate with any investigation. 

I would almost feel sad for him if he wasn't such a weasel.
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Same with Ted Cruz. He had to go on Fox News and retract his recent J6 anniversary comments because they didn't fall in line with the "America First" narrative. And this was second time he had to beg forgiveness. 

 
Reading through this whole thread, one interesting dynamic is that a lot of conservatives seem to have motivated reasoning: they very much want it to be true that Trump doesn't control the party, because if he does then they'd have to face what that said about the GOP. (That doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, of course, just something to take into account.)

What's interesting is that a lot of them seem to think the opposite must also be true: that liberals are motivated to believe that Trump controls the party because that fits their narrative. Except that we have an entire thread full of liberals and other anti-Trump types saying they would prefer he not win the GOP nomination even if they believe he would be easier to beat. That's certainly how I feel. I would have liked nothing better than if Trump had slinked off into obscurity like just about every other defeated presidential candidate has done for a generation. But I can't deny the objective reality staring me in the face.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Reading through this whole thread, one interesting dynamic is that a lot of conservatives seem to have motivated reasoning: they very much want it to be true that Trump doesn't control the party, because if he does then they'd have to face what that said about the GOP. (That doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, of course, just something to take into account.)

What's interesting is that a lot of them seem to think the opposite must also be true: that liberals are motivated to believe that Trump controls the party because that fits their narrative. Except that we have an entire thread full of liberals and other anti-Trump types saying they would prefer he not win the GOP nomination even if they believe he would be easier to beat. That's certainly how I feel. I would have liked nothing better than if Trump had slinked off into obscurity like just about every other defeated presidential candidate has done for a generation. But I can't deny the objective reality staring me in the face.
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Sorry friend but the bolded isn’t close to reality. The lack of self awareness at time here is very worrisome. 

 
GoBirds said:
Sorry friend but the bolded isn’t close to reality. The lack of self awareness at time here is very worrisome. 
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  1. Trump has been pretty clear about his intent to run in '24
  2. A number of potential '24 candidates have said they won't run if he does
  3. A number of elected Republicans who criticized him in the immediate aftermath of Jan. 6 (McCarthy, Graham, Cruz) have since retracted their criticisms
  4. A number of those who haven't retracted (Cheney, Kinzinger, Gonzalez, Kemp, Raffensperger) have been drummed out of the party or are facing Trump-endorsed primary challenges
Can you specify which of those statements aren't "close to reality"? TIA

 
Amending my earlier post, it seems like there is a subset of PSFers who, based on their posts in other threads, are fans of Trump, think he did a great job as president, and would vote for him if he ran again, but who also are very invested in shooting down the notion that he controls the party. I gotta confess, I don't understand this mindset at all. Is their view that he doesn't control the party but it would be good if he did?  :shrug:

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
  1. Trump has been pretty clear about his intent to run in '24
  2. A number of potential '24 candidates have said they won't run if he does
  3. A number of elected Republicans who criticized him in the immediate aftermath of Jan. 6 (McCarthy, Graham, Cruz) have since retracted their criticisms
  4. A number of those who haven't retracted (Cheney, Kinzinger, Gonzalez, Kemp, Raffensperger) have been drummed out of the party or are facing Trump-endorsed primary challenges
Can you specify which of those statements aren't "close to reality"? TIA
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Per my post, there’s nothing “objective” at all about your “reality”. Sorry. 

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Amending my earlier post, it seems like there is a subset of PSFers who, based on their posts in other threads, are fans of Trump, think he did a great job as president, and would vote for him if he ran again, but who also are very invested in shooting down the notion that he controls the party. I gotta confess, I don't understand this mindset at all. Is their view that he doesn't control the party but it would be good if he did?  :shrug:
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Yeah, I posted this the other day.  So many in here dying on the hill for the guy every day.   Own it and just say he controls the party and its a good thing.   :shrug:

 
Joe Bryant said:
On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to find something interesting with how he's able to go against the trend without it being "disingenuous" or somehow in bad faith. But unfortunately, that's how the forum works. I get it. 
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McConnell is refreshingly honest about most things he does.  He's a cynical as a 70 year old hooker, but he'll mostly tell you what he's really doing.

I don't think he enjoyed 1/6 and saw it as a real affront to democracy and, especially, Congress.  He probably thinks it's good politics too to let Dems run with the ball and not get involved, but I'm pretty sure he hated the event itself and wouldn't mind seeing Trump's nose bloodied for it.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
McConnell is refreshingly honest about most things he does.  He's a cynical as a 70 year old hooker, but he'll mostly tell you what he's really doing.

I don't think he enjoyed 1/6 and saw it as a real affront to democracy and, especially, Congress.  He probably thinks it's good politics too to let Dems run with the ball and not get involved, but I'm pretty sure he hated the event itself and wouldn't mind seeing Trump's nose bloodied for it.
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This is true. The guy is a weasel (see Garrick Marland SC nom) but he tells you with a reptilian-like smile what he's doing.

 
GoBirds said:
ignatiusjreilly said:
Reading through this whole thread, one interesting dynamic is that a lot of conservatives seem to have motivated reasoning: they very much want it to be true that Trump doesn't control the party, because if he does then they'd have to face what that said about the GOP. (That doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, of course, just something to take into account.)

What's interesting is that a lot of them seem to think the opposite must also be true: that liberals are motivated to believe that Trump controls the party because that fits their narrative. Except that we have an entire thread full of liberals and other anti-Trump types saying they would prefer he not win the GOP nomination even if they believe he would be easier to beat. That's certainly how I feel. I would have liked nothing better than if Trump had slinked off into obscurity like just about every other defeated presidential candidate has done for a generation. But I can't deny the objective reality staring me in the face.
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Sorry friend but the bolded isn’t close to reality. The lack of self awareness at time here is very worrisome.
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This seemed like a great summary. What do you disagree with?

 
Stoneworker said:
:fishing:

Objective reality: You have zero legitimate interest in what the man agrees/disagrees with.
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Bunch of lefties in here trying incredibly hard to convince themselves the fake narrative they are trying to craft is true.  :doh:

It seems they are pretending to know more than actual, y'know, conservatives on this subject.

 
massraider said:
It's like asking if Tom Brady is a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl. 
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I think we'll just have to disagree if me finding it interesting how Mitch McConnell can survive and remain to be the most influential Republican in office while infuriating Trump is the same as asking if Tom Brady is a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl. No worries. 

 
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BladeRunner said:
Bunch of lefties in here trying incredibly hard to convince themselves the fake narrative they are trying to craft is true.  :doh:

It seems they are pretending to know more than actual, y'know, conservatives on this subject.
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Most definitely there is bias in the polling based on political leanings. Lefties and anti-Trumpers despise him so much it colors their every thought, and many conservatives are trying hard to move on and upgrade.

I'm sure we'd also see pretty skewed opinions about polarizing socialistas like AOC.

But for some libs to blindly declare their emotionally-charged opinions as "objective reality" is quite humorous.

 
Joe Bryant said:
It think we'll just have to disagree if me finding it interesting how Mitch McConnell can survive and remain to be the most influential Republican in office while infuriating Trump is the same as asking if Tom  Brady is a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl. No worries. 
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If Trump decided he no longer wanted McConnel to be the Senate Majority Leader, should the GOP re-take the Senate, what do you think happens to McConnel? Do you think he's the next Senate Majority Leader?

 
Amused to Death said:
If Trump decided he no longer wanted McConnel to be the Senate Majority Leader, should the GOP re-take the Senate, what do you think happens to McConnel? Do you think he's the next Senate Majority Leader?
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It seems to me that Trump has already decided he doesn't want McConnell to be the Republican leader in the Senate. Regardless of whether the Republicans retake the Senate. At the very least, it's clear Trump isn't happy with him. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/589240-mcconnell-will-run-for-another-term-as-leader-despite-trumps-attacks

McConnell has come under withering criticism from former President Trump over the past year after blaming Trump for inciting the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.  

McConnell has also been the target of Trump’s wrath after voting for a $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill and a proposal to allow Democrats to raise the debt ceiling by themselves with a simple majority vote.  
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Joe Bryant said:
It seems to me that Trump has already decided he doesn't want McConnell to be the Republican leader in the Senate. Regardless of whether the Republicans retake the Senate. At the very least, it's clear Trump isn't happy with him. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/589240-mcconnell-will-run-for-another-term-as-leader-despite-trumps-attacks
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Sure he's come under criticism, but if Trump made it known that he wants someone new as SML, do you think McConnel wins that battle? IF the GOP retakes the Senate and it comes to a vote, will the majority of Republican Senators back McConnel or vote for Trump's choice? Keep in mind, McConnel hasn't had to face that yet.

 
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ignatiusjreilly said:
Amending my earlier post, it seems like there is a subset of PSFers who, based on their posts in other threads, are fans of Trump, think he did a great job as president, and would vote for him if he ran again, but who also are very invested in shooting down the notion that he controls the party. I gotta confess, I don't understand this mindset at all. Is their view that he doesn't control the party but it would be good if he did?  :shrug:
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Na.....taking them at their word, they "hate" Trump but will vote for him over Democrats any day.  The Democrats are making them vote for him.

 
BladeRunner said:
Bunch of lefties in here trying incredibly hard to convince themselves the fake narrative they are trying to craft is true.  :doh:

It seems they are pretending to know more than actual, y'know, conservatives on this subject.
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This is all opinion to some extent. Yours, mine, everyone in here. We see plenty of examples of Republicans completely deferring to Trump very openly (see Lindsey Graham), polls showing he’s the front runner for the nom, etc.

Don’t see the fake narrative you are talking about. 

 
Amused to Death said:
Sure he's come under criticism, but if Trump made it known that he wants someone new as SML, do you think McConnel wins that battle? IF the GOP retakes the Senate and it comes to a vote, will the majority of Republican Senators back McConnel or vote for Trump's choice? Keep in mind, McConnel hasn't had to face that yet.
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This is not a hypothetical situation.  He will face that vote.

I don't know why you keep talking about the "majority" and "retaking the Senate". McConnell will face the same vote for leader of the party regardless of which party has the majority.   https://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Leadership_vrd.htm

From the article I linked earlier. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/589240-mcconnell-will-run-for-another-term-as-leader-despite-trumps-attacks

McConnell has also been the target of Trump’s wrath after voting for a $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill and a proposal to allow Democrats to raise the debt ceiling by themselves with a simple majority vote.  

But McConnell, who will turn 80 in February, made clear on Tuesday that he doesn’t plan to step down from the Senate Republican leader’s job anytime soon, despite Trump’s pressure.  
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The General said:
You are one of the few conservatives who thinks he does apparently. 
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:confused:

That's exactly why I asked the poll question the way I did. Maybe the posters who said they identified as conservatives are lying but there were lots of votes that thought this. 

 
I can't wait to re-visit this topic in 2024. Of course, all the people acting nastily will deny they ever said these things or just move along because it's the internet, but I'll remember. 

Words like "objective reality," "feelings and emotions," etc. indicate that it is the liberals on the board who are delusional about current events and are acting with hot passion. But I haven't seen anything but dispassionate analysis about how Trump controls the party from the liberals, and it's simply met with invective in return by conservatives. You tell me who is acting with hot passion. Read this page. GoBirds, Stoneworker, BladeRunner, et. al. are constantly charging in, frothing at the mouth, and rabidly declaring any evidence as the product of some form of delusion. 

But the facts speak for themselves. 

This invective is only worth the screen space it's read on. It's nothing. A joke and a prayer about a terrible former President and the state of a party in complete shambles. If not for the ineptitude of Democrats, Republicans wouldn't sniff anything close to governance. 

 
rockaction said:
I can't wait to re-visit this topic in 2024. Of course, all the people acting nastily will deny they ever said these things or just move along because it's the internet, but I'll remember. 

Words like "objective reality," "feelings and emotions," etc. indicate that it is the liberals on the board who are delusional about current events and are acting with hot passion. But I haven't seen anything but dispassionate analysis about how Trump controls the party from the liberals, and it's simply met with invective in return by conservatives. You tell me who is acting with hot passion. Read this page. GoBirds, Stoneworker, BladeRunner, et. al. are constantly charging in, frothing at the mouth, and rabidly declaring any evidence as the product of some form of delusion. 

But the facts speak for themselves. 

This invective is only worth the screen space it's read on. It's nothing. A joke and a prayer about a terrible former President and the state of a party in complete shambles. If not for the ineptitude of Democrats, Republicans wouldn't sniff anything close to governance. 
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Yep to all this. 

To the bolded we will get a glimpse in the midterms as well as to what power Don has versus Trump bluster.

 
rockaction said:
I can't wait to re-visit this topic in 2024. Of course, all the people acting nastily will deny they ever said these things or just move along because it's the internet, but I'll remember. 

Words like "objective reality," "feelings and emotions," etc. indicate that it is the liberals on the board who are delusional about current events and are acting with hot passion. But I haven't seen anything but dispassionate analysis about how Trump controls the party from the liberals, and it's simply met with invective in return by conservatives. You tell me who is acting with hot passion. Read this page. GoBirds, Stoneworker, BladeRunner, et. al. are constantly charging in, frothing at the mouth, and rabidly declaring any evidence as the product of some form of delusion. 

But the facts speak for themselves. 

This invective is only worth the screen space it's read on. It's nothing. A joke and a prayer about a terrible former President and the state of a party in complete shambles. If not for the ineptitude of Democrats, Republicans wouldn't sniff anything close to governance. 
Click to expand...
Nailed it. Can we pin this…..

 
Joe Bryant said:
This is not a hypothetical situation.  He will face that vote.

I don't know why you keep talking about the "majority" and "retaking the Senate". McConnell will face the same vote for leader of the party regardless of which party has the majority.   https://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Leadership_vrd.htm

From the article I linked earlier. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/589240-mcconnell-will-run-for-another-term-as-leader-despite-trumps-attacks
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If Trump decides he wants Mitch out as leader of the senate he will be in the fight of his life.  We have to wait to see what Don wants before this has any legs in this debate.

 
Joe Bryant said:
:confused:

That's exactly why I asked the poll question the way I did. Maybe the posters who said they identified as conservatives are lying but there were lots of votes that thought this. 
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Among those who identified as Conservative less than half and that's if you include every "on the fence voter".

Viewing Don as controlling the party versus wanting him to are separate issues I guess.

I don't see how it is plausible to "completely disagree" with the way you worded the poll when you have Senators openly talking about it, that he has a significant core block of voters in his pocket, and is the leader in the polls for the nom but that is the fun of this topic.

 
rockaction said:
You tell me who is acting with hot passion. Read this page. GoBirds, Stoneworker, BladeRunner, et. al. are constantly charging in, frothing at the mouth, and rabidly declaring any evidence as the product of some form of delusion. 

This invective is only worth the screen space it's read on. 
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Well said.

 
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The General said:
Among those who identified as Conservative less than half and that's if you include every "on the fence voter".

Viewing Don as controlling the party versus wanting him to are separate issues I guess.

I don't see how it is plausible to "completely disagree" with the way you worded the poll when you have Senators openly talking about it, that he has a significant core block of voters in his pocket, and is the leader in the polls for the nom but that is the fun of this topic.
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Correct. Looked like 10 voted Absolutely or Mostly agree while 18 voted Absolutely or Mostly Disagree with 6 on the fence. Seemed far from a landslide. :shrug:  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Correct. Looked like 10 voted Absolutely or Mostly agree while 18 voted Absolutely or Mostly Disagree with 6 on the fence. Seemed far from a landslide. :shrug:  
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While the sample size is obviously small the results of the poll, taking into account the full spectrum of political identification, suggest that a majoirty of people (at least in this forum),  believe Trump controls the party.

 
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