Almost 50% of Fans Want A New GM In Green Bay (1 Viewer)

[BeaverCleaver]

You can make the argument that others were making...that Thompson did not want him all you want.But to call what was just said revisionist history is BS.He did in fact shed tears and say he was done. He did that before he claimed he wanted to come back to be a Packer.And nor were his actions justified. His actions were not of a man who just wanted to play for the GB Packers either. Some of you will never just get that.

He showed up at training camp after he was told he'd have to compete for the job. And then he was not admitted to practice. Unbelievable. Unbelievable that he flew all the way up to Green Bay to play for the team he was contracted to play for, and they sent HIM away, and you deny that.This is revisionist history I was referring to, that you ignored:

But he left the Packers it is not the other way around.

Wrong. He retired, never filed the papers, and came back to the team he wanted to play for, but they did not admit him.

Why did he show up at camp? He was trying to force their hand (and IMO, it was not all about just playing for the Packers, IMO he knew that was no longer going to happen).He did leave the Packers...that is a fact. Its not revisionist history, its the truth.He did retire...the papers are meaningless.He came back to that team...that nobody above was disputing.But he did leave them. They did not move on prior to that.

and don't forget the part about Ted Thompson not wanting Favre back.

 

[sho nuff]

Some of those clowns think you have to be able to name 10 starters to be a fan.

There is a line between diehard fan and casual fan, and it blurs at points, for certain. But to think that a "casual fan" does not have the right to be offended over the way this situation was handled, and how they choose to react detirmines whether or not they meet the minimum criteria to be a fan of a team is utter nonsense. Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." It is merely one way of attempting to feel superior to others. Nonsense.

Only, nobody is claiming that a fan does not have the right to not like how it was handled.Its not fascist to say, actually cheering for a team or you are not a fan...its the definition of a fan.

You are still arguing against a point nobody here is actually making.

You are defining for other people what it means to be a fan of a team, and that is wrong. You are attempting to make the point and on the other hand say noone is making it. 'Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." '

Are the 47% of Wisconsin Natives who want TT's removal not fans? Are they now not fans because they refuse to settle for less than the best? I say this: Packer fans who were so disturbed by this offseasons happenings that they bought Favre Jets jerseys and watch Jets games and wish Favre all the success in the world are GREATER fans than those that deny that Thompsons actions have hurt the heart of the franchise he works for. I contend that it takes a greater fan to stand up to the majority and say "I will not tolerate this behavior from my beloved franchise." Because on the surface it costs them. They look like they are not "real" fans. They look like bandwagon jumpers. They appear to be "Favre Firsters". But it is precisely that, opening themselves up to the criticism, to the slings and arrows of the elitist Packer fans who blindly stand by and allow their franchise to throw dirt on the still breathing body of the greatest QB they've had. To be able to stand up and say "This I will not stand for" and open themselves up to the criticism takes a greater amount of courage than to say "My team has done this, and so I must support them in the action." This is a fallacy. It does not make you less of a fan to be critical. If you think so little of these fellow fans that you can find yourself agreeing with these sentiments, these false judgements of who is and who is not a real fan, then you are indeed a part of the problem.

Fanhood, like patriotism, takes courage to stand up and say the unpopular thing. If a Packer fan chooses to take a year off in protest and wait until TT's inevitible firing before supporting his team, that is his or her right, and in my opinion only makes them a stronger fan for doing what they feel is right in their heart.

BS...Im not defining it...the definition of a fan is.You cannot say you are a Packer fan...yet not cheer for the Packers but cheer for Favre and the Jets instead.

By definition, that person is no longer a Packer fan.

Fall in line with these rules? Like actually being a fan of the team you are claiming to be a fan of? Are you serious with this?

Where did I say that the 47% of people who want him gone are not fans?

Im not saying this? Don't recall anyone actually saying that.

Im saying...if you no longer cheer for the Green Bay Packers but cheer for the Jets and Favre instead...you are not a Packer fan. By way of not even being for the team anymore.

But now you are claiming that those who bought Favre jerseys and support him are greater fans? Wow...some major hypocrisy here. I cannot define a fan of a team as someone who actually cheers for them...but you are going to say fans who did that are greater fans than anyone who supports Thompson.

Nobody is saying it makes anyone less of a fan to be critical. The opposite now appears true. You think it makes people greater fans.

Im saying, it makes you less of a fan if you don't even cheer for the team anymore.

 

[sho nuff]

Though, I would also love to see a similar poll over the years with teams who are not doing well at the time.Hell, not but a few years ago there were plenty of calls into local radio here wanting to get rid of Jeff Fisher.

Really? Wow. If there's a coach that earned my respect by working magic with whatever a team gave him, it's Fisher. Don't know what those fans were thinking.

I don't know either.I said it then...it was just after McCarthy was hired I think. I said Id be the first calling for Thompson to immediately fire McCArthy and hire Fisher before someone else did.

 

[sho nuff]

Some of those clowns think you have to be able to name 10 starters to be a fan.

There is a line between diehard fan and casual fan, and it blurs at points, for certain. But to think that a "casual fan" does not have the right to be offended over the way this situation was handled, and how they choose to react detirmines whether or not they meet the minimum criteria to be a fan of a team is utter nonsense. Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." It is merely one way of attempting to feel superior to others. Nonsense.

Only, nobody is claiming that a fan does not have the right to not like how it was handled.Its not fascist to say, actually cheering for a team or you are not a fan...its the definition of a fan.

You are still arguing against a point nobody here is actually making.

You are defining for other people what it means to be a fan of a team, and that is wrong. You are attempting to make the point and on the other hand say noone is making it. 'Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." '

Are the 47% of Wisconsin Natives who want TT's removal not fans? Are they now not fans because they refuse to settle for less than the best? I say this: Packer fans who were so disturbed by this offseasons happenings that they bought Favre Jets jerseys and watch Jets games and wish Favre all the success in the world are GREATER fans than those that deny that Thompsons actions have hurt the heart of the franchise he works for. I contend that it takes a greater fan to stand up to the majority and say "I will not tolerate this behavior from my beloved franchise." Because on the surface it costs them. They look like they are not "real" fans. They look like bandwagon jumpers. They appear to be "Favre Firsters". But it is precisely that, opening themselves up to the criticism, to the slings and arrows of the elitist Packer fans who blindly stand by and allow their franchise to throw dirt on the still breathing body of the greatest QB they've had. To be able to stand up and say "This I will not stand for" and open themselves up to the criticism takes a greater amount of courage than to say "My team has done this, and so I must support them in the action." This is a fallacy. It does not make you less of a fan to be critical. If you think so little of these fellow fans that you can find yourself agreeing with these sentiments, these false judgements of who is and who is not a real fan, then you are indeed a part of the problem.

Fanhood, like patriotism, takes courage to stand up and say the unpopular thing. If a Packer fan chooses to take a year off in protest and wait until TT's inevitible firing before supporting his team, that is his or her right, and in my opinion only makes them a stronger fan for doing what they feel is right in their heart.

Damn

If you like more spin and straw man arguments.Can someone again tell me how a person can be a fan of a team...yet not cheer for that team?

 

[sho nuff]

You can make the argument that others were making...that Thompson did not want him all you want.But to call what was just said revisionist history is BS.He did in fact shed tears and say he was done. He did that before he claimed he wanted to come back to be a Packer.And nor were his actions justified. His actions were not of a man who just wanted to play for the GB Packers either. Some of you will never just get that.

He showed up at training camp after he was told he'd have to compete for the job. And then he was not admitted to practice. Unbelievable. Unbelievable that he flew all the way up to Green Bay to play for the team he was contracted to play for, and they sent HIM away, and you deny that.This is revisionist history I was referring to, that you ignored:

But he left the Packers it is not the other way around.

Wrong. He retired, never filed the papers, and came back to the team he wanted to play for, but they did not admit him.

Why did he show up at camp? He was trying to force their hand (and IMO, it was not all about just playing for the Packers, IMO he knew that was no longer going to happen).He did leave the Packers...that is a fact. Its not revisionist history, its the truth.He did retire...the papers are meaningless.He came back to that team...that nobody above was disputing.But he did leave them. They did not move on prior to that.

and don't forget the part about Ted Thompson not wanting Favre back.

Never forgot it phase.But its pretty irrelevant.If Favre had not retired and said he was done, he would be a Packer today.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Some of those clowns think you have to be able to name 10 starters to be a fan.

There is a line between diehard fan and casual fan, and it blurs at points, for certain. But to think that a "casual fan" does not have the right to be offended over the way this situation was handled, and how they choose to react detirmines whether or not they meet the minimum criteria to be a fan of a team is utter nonsense. Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." It is merely one way of attempting to feel superior to others. Nonsense.

Only, nobody is claiming that a fan does not have the right to not like how it was handled.Its not fascist to say, actually cheering for a team or you are not a fan...its the definition of a fan.

You are still arguing against a point nobody here is actually making.

You are defining for other people what it means to be a fan of a team, and that is wrong. You are attempting to make the point and on the other hand say noone is making it. 'Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." '

Are the 47% of Wisconsin Natives who want TT's removal not fans? Are they now not fans because they refuse to settle for less than the best? I say this: Packer fans who were so disturbed by this offseasons happenings that they bought Favre Jets jerseys and watch Jets games and wish Favre all the success in the world are GREATER fans than those that deny that Thompsons actions have hurt the heart of the franchise he works for. I contend that it takes a greater fan to stand up to the majority and say "I will not tolerate this behavior from my beloved franchise." Because on the surface it costs them. They look like they are not "real" fans. They look like bandwagon jumpers. They appear to be "Favre Firsters". But it is precisely that, opening themselves up to the criticism, to the slings and arrows of the elitist Packer fans who blindly stand by and allow their franchise to throw dirt on the still breathing body of the greatest QB they've had. To be able to stand up and say "This I will not stand for" and open themselves up to the criticism takes a greater amount of courage than to say "My team has done this, and so I must support them in the action." This is a fallacy. It does not make you less of a fan to be critical. If you think so little of these fellow fans that you can find yourself agreeing with these sentiments, these false judgements of who is and who is not a real fan, then you are indeed a part of the problem.

Fanhood, like patriotism, takes courage to stand up and say the unpopular thing. If a Packer fan chooses to take a year off in protest and wait until TT's inevitible firing before supporting his team, that is his or her right, and in my opinion only makes them a stronger fan for doing what they feel is right in their heart.

Damn

If you like more spin

And you are the spinmaster!

 

[sho nuff]

Sure...I guess so, but in this case...he is the one spinning.

How about this...Im not really a Packer fan.

I mean, I cheer for them and talk about them all the time. Im really a Vikings fan, eventhough I don't cheer for them and hope they do bad.

I only do that because I hope that GB gets so good, that Minny will finally do something.

See how dumb that sounds?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Some of those clowns think you have to be able to name 10 starters to be a fan.

There is a line between diehard fan and casual fan, and it blurs at points, for certain. But to think that a "casual fan" does not have the right to be offended over the way this situation was handled, and how they choose to react detirmines whether or not they meet the minimum criteria to be a fan of a team is utter nonsense. Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." It is merely one way of attempting to feel superior to others. Nonsense.

Only, nobody is claiming that a fan does not have the right to not like how it was handled.Its not fascist to say, actually cheering for a team or you are not a fan...its the definition of a fan.

You are still arguing against a point nobody here is actually making.

You are defining for other people what it means to be a fan of a team, and that is wrong. You are attempting to make the point and on the other hand say noone is making it. 'Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." '

Are the 47% of Wisconsin Natives who want TT's removal not fans? Are they now not fans because they refuse to settle for less than the best? I say this: Packer fans who were so disturbed by this offseasons happenings that they bought Favre Jets jerseys and watch Jets games and wish Favre all the success in the world are GREATER fans than those that deny that Thompsons actions have hurt the heart of the franchise he works for. I contend that it takes a greater fan to stand up to the majority and say "I will not tolerate this behavior from my beloved franchise." Because on the surface it costs them. They look like they are not "real" fans. They look like bandwagon jumpers. They appear to be "Favre Firsters". But it is precisely that, opening themselves up to the criticism, to the slings and arrows of the elitist Packer fans who blindly stand by and allow their franchise to throw dirt on the still breathing body of the greatest QB they've had. To be able to stand up and say "This I will not stand for" and open themselves up to the criticism takes a greater amount of courage than to say "My team has done this, and so I must support them in the action." This is a fallacy. It does not make you less of a fan to be critical. If you think so little of these fellow fans that you can find yourself agreeing with these sentiments, these false judgements of who is and who is not a real fan, then you are indeed a part of the problem.

Fanhood, like patriotism, takes courage to stand up and say the unpopular thing. If a Packer fan chooses to take a year off in protest and wait until TT's inevitible firing before supporting his team, that is his or her right, and in my opinion only makes them a stronger fan for doing what they feel is right in their heart.

This poll doesn't remotely represent the attitude of Wisconsin Packer fans, the great majority of whom recognize that the team is in great shape today because of Thompson. I listen to sports radio frequently in Wisconsin and I have never heard any commentary suggesting Thomson isn't doing an excellent job in Titletown. Last week I heard a show that was entirely dedicated to ridiculing a caller who had suggested Thompson should be fired. I've been to Lambeau three times this season and can't remember seeing more than a handful of Jets stuff - its a very small but rather vocal minority.I think it is obvious that it is Ted Thompson, rather than his critics, who has shown extraordinary courage this season by making the tough decisions and very difficult move of cutting ties with Favre for the good of the organization. He knew he would be vilified by the peanut gallery. It helps that he is extremely secure in his position (relatively speaking) and has the full support of the board. The great great majority of fans realize this was the right move for the team, for this year and beyond. It was obvious to most at the time, but has of course been proven unequivocally correct in the intervening months.

 

[Sabertooth]

Exec of the Year 2007. The front office equivalent of NFL MVP. /thread

 

[Mario Kart]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.

Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever.

Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.

Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.

Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?

Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.

Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.

Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.

Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?

Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.

For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better.

I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish.

Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

 

[packersfan]

For those issuing their full support of Thompson isn't it possible, just possible, that maybe, just maybe, Thompson didn't have that good of a year this year? Players have bad years. Coaches can have bad years. Why can't GMs have bad years?

This season has been a MAJOR disappointment for the Packers and fans who do not treat it as such leave me mystified. To go from being a young team that was a Super Bowl contender to being an also-ran and a pitiful distant third in arguably the worst division in football is not a good year. Is it not possible then that the GM, who's in charge of making sure the season is a success, has some culpability in that?

What I find odd among those who defend Thompson to the death is their utter refusal to hold him accountable for anything that goes wrong. They just rally behind the cry that he's better than Sherman (which he is but is rather faint praise) and that the team is poised for greatness despite the current fact that there's nothing to suggest that will be the case anytime soon even though this team was on the verge of greatness less than one year ago.

 

[parasaurolophus]

gettin a little tired of hearing people blame sherman for Bubba. That was all TT. Look it up.

KGB's deal was not a bad deal. The packers could have cut him before this season and not had to pay his 6.15 million this year. The remaining signing bonus money was 1.5 million. The reason it became a bad deal is because numbnuts retained him, then released him.

If you have 7 million dollars in cap space and a guy who was going to hit your cap for 8 million dollars does it really take a genius to let him go? Considering its against the rules, its not so hard.

The real root of this issue is a lot of people had developed some bad feelings for Favre. They claimed over and over how washed up he was, he had nothing left blah blah. Search for the threads. There are tons of them.

He proved them wrong last year and people hate being wrong. This automatically causes them to defend TT.

The same guys that defend Rodgers by stating how awful the defense is and how awful special teams are and how bad the offensive line is defend TT.

You cant have it both ways. Either Rodgers is the problem and that points to TT, or the team is crappy and well that points to TT.

Lets say you think the coach is crappy. Well guess who is the idiot GM who hired a nobody coordinator from a couple crappy teams?

 

[Interseptopus]

50% of all fans? all 10,000 of them?

The JSOnline polls are a joke.

Way back when Favre was going through this soap opera 51% of "all fans" on their jsonline poll wanted Favre gone.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Some of those clowns think you have to be able to name 10 starters to be a fan.

There is a line between diehard fan and casual fan, and it blurs at points, for certain. But to think that a "casual fan" does not have the right to be offended over the way this situation was handled, and how they choose to react detirmines whether or not they meet the minimum criteria to be a fan of a team is utter nonsense. Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." It is merely one way of attempting to feel superior to others. Nonsense.

Only, nobody is claiming that a fan does not have the right to not like how it was handled.Its not fascist to say, actually cheering for a team or you are not a fan...its the definition of a fan.

You are still arguing against a point nobody here is actually making.

You are defining for other people what it means to be a fan of a team, and that is wrong. You are attempting to make the point and on the other hand say noone is making it. 'Again, it is a fascist attitude to say "Fall in line with these rules or you are ostracized." '

Are the 47% of Wisconsin Natives who want TT's removal not fans? Are they now not fans because they refuse to settle for less than the best? I say this: Packer fans who were so disturbed by this offseasons happenings that they bought Favre Jets jerseys and watch Jets games and wish Favre all the success in the world are GREATER fans than those that deny that Thompsons actions have hurt the heart of the franchise he works for. I contend that it takes a greater fan to stand up to the majority and say "I will not tolerate this behavior from my beloved franchise." Because on the surface it costs them. They look like they are not "real" fans. They look like bandwagon jumpers. They appear to be "Favre Firsters". But it is precisely that, opening themselves up to the criticism, to the slings and arrows of the elitist Packer fans who blindly stand by and allow their franchise to throw dirt on the still breathing body of the greatest QB they've had. To be able to stand up and say "This I will not stand for" and open themselves up to the criticism takes a greater amount of courage than to say "My team has done this, and so I must support them in the action." This is a fallacy. It does not make you less of a fan to be critical. If you think so little of these fellow fans that you can find yourself agreeing with these sentiments, these false judgements of who is and who is not a real fan, then you are indeed a part of the problem.

Fanhood, like patriotism, takes courage to stand up and say the unpopular thing. If a Packer fan chooses to take a year off in protest and wait until TT's inevitible firing before supporting his team, that is his or her right, and in my opinion only makes them a stronger fan for doing what they feel is right in their heart.

BS...Im not defining it...the definition of a fan is.You cannot say you are a Packer fan...yet not cheer for the Packers but cheer for Favre and the Jets instead.

By definition, that person is no longer a Packer fan.

Fall in line with these rules? Like actually being a fan of the team you are claiming to be a fan of? Are you serious with this?

Where did I say that the 47% of people who want him gone are not fans?

Im not saying this? Don't recall anyone actually saying that.

Im saying...if you no longer cheer for the Green Bay Packers but cheer for the Jets and Favre instead...you are not a Packer fan. By way of not even being for the team anymore.

But now you are claiming that those who bought Favre jerseys and support him are greater fans? Wow...some major hypocrisy here. I cannot define a fan of a team as someone who actually cheers for them...but you are going to say fans who did that are greater fans than anyone who supports Thompson.

Nobody is saying it makes anyone less of a fan to be critical. The opposite now appears true. You think it makes people greater fans.

Im saying, it makes you less of a fan if you don't even cheer for the team anymore.

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.

Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.

For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

 

[ScottyFargo]

For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better.

 

[griz145389]

Hey, you guys need to lay off TT. I mean, look at all this great depth on the team! Sure he may only have a mediocre overall record, but this depth is awesome. Hey I doubt if when Sherman was there that he could replace someone that was mediocre with someone else equally mediocre. That is progress! Depth all over this roster. Not only that but these guys can be around for many years. Who needs players that are good? Obviously Ted Thompson is a genius and will show everyone here up because a bunch of mediocre young players is definitely what it will take to make this team great! Not to mention, look at all that cap room! Know what's even better? It will still be there next year! That's right, Ted Thompson realizes the importance of keeping as much room as possible in the cap, and anyone who thinks that it could be used to sign a few free agents is obviously an idiot. Because if he signed some free agents, we wouldn't have all that cap room, and true football fans know how important that it is to have lots and lots of cap room.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Hey, you guys need to lay off TT. I mean, look at all this great depth on the team! Sure he may only have a mediocre overall record, but this depth is awesome. Hey I doubt if when Sherman was there that he could replace someone that was mediocre with someone else equally mediocre. That is progress! Depth all over this roster. Not only that but these guys can be around for many years. Who needs players that are good? Obviously Ted Thompson is a genius and will show everyone here up because a bunch of mediocre young players is definitely what it will take to make this team great! Not to mention, look at all that cap room! Know what's even better? It will still be there next year! That's right, Ted Thompson realizes the importance of keeping as much room as possible in the cap, and anyone who thinks that it could be used to sign a few free agents is obviously an idiot. Because if he signed some free agents, we wouldn't have all that cap room, and true football fans know how important that it is to have lots and lots of cap room.

one of the better postings i have seen.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

For those issuing their full support of Thompson isn't it possible, just possible, that maybe, just maybe, Thompson didn't have that good of a year this year? Players have bad years. Coaches can have bad years. Why can't GMs have bad years?This season has been a MAJOR disappointment for the Packers and fans who do not treat it as such leave me mystified. To go from being a young team that was a Super Bowl contender to being an also-ran and a pitiful distant third in arguably the worst division in football is not a good year. Is it not possible then that the GM, who's in charge of making sure the season is a success, has some culpability in that? What I find odd among those who defend Thompson to the death is their utter refusal to hold him accountable for anything that goes wrong. They just rally behind the cry that he's better than Sherman (which he is but is rather faint praise) and that the team is poised for greatness despite the current fact that there's nothing to suggest that will be the case anytime soon even though this team was on the verge of greatness less than one year ago.

Of course Thompson ultimately answers for the performance of the team and I think his seat will be getting pretty hot if they don't improve in the W-L category next season. I criticized him on this board months ago for the bizarre move of cutting Ryan and signing Frost without having had him in camp. I've posted that the Grant deal was in retrospect too big, although his agent played the Favre circus brilliantly at the time to his benefit. I won't go through all the good moves, but would say some are not as visible as the common fan thinks, such as letting Green go or not signing Lavarr Arrington, just to give two examples of things that some people clamored about at the time but later forgot when it became apparent Thompson was correct.As for this season being a disappointment, of course that is the case. I left Lambeau last week early - was half way to Kroll's when the winning kick went through the uprights. I've not left many games "early" like that in the past 15 years. It was disgusting. But I recognize that if Crosby makes a 52 yd. kick in Minnesota, Woodson defends a hail mary to Smith at the end of the Carolina game, and Moll doesn't get the phantom holding call at the end of the Houston game, this team is 8-5 and this conversation isn't happening. That's not to mention the players that are on IR and the several more who have missed games and played hurt all season. Many fans don't realize that Hawk's hamstring is torn from the bone and Pickett is playing DT with only one arm. Last season, we know they were able to stay healthy and the breaks went their way (do you remember week 1?) I don't think this team is any worse than last year's team, and may be better going forward.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Sherman flew down to New Orleans to sign Joe Johnson to a huge contract meaning they had to let Vonnie Holiday leave due to lack of contract room.Sherman traded Hasselbeck to Seattle to move up 7 spots in one draft. Sherman took Jamal Reynolds. Seattle took Hutchinson at GB's spot.I rest my case.

You may find it amusing, huckster, but the Joe Johnson signing was absolutely HORRIBLE. One of many terrible, big $$$ contracts from Sherman.

Huckster? I think that is reportable.

Uh, sure.

 

[packersfan]

But I recognize that if Crosby makes a 52 yd. kick in Minnesota, Woodson defends a hail mary to Smith at the end of the Carolina game, and Moll doesn't get the phantom holding call at the end of the Houston game, this team is 8-5 and this conversation isn't happening.

No offense, but that's the Bart Starr "Five Plays Away" nonsense that drove this team in the 80s. As Ron Wolf once said, you are what you are. Meaning, your record is who you are and everything else is just useless excuses. The Packers are a sub-.500 team and that's who they are. Less than a year ago, they were a legitimate Super Bowl contender. This is a significant decline and it's occurred under Thompson's watch. When this team regressed under Sherman, the fans went ballistic and rightfully so. Well it's regressed again, this time under Thompson, and I think the fans are well within their rights to go ballistic again - especially when you consider how little needs to be done to win the NFC North. The sad thing there is the Packers have gone from being the clear dominant team in the division to being third despite the fact this is a young team. The Vikings have a much stronger foundation in my opinion and the Bears are better as well at the present time. The point I made in the summer was that the window to be a Super Bowl contender doesn't stay open for very long. The Packers had that window and I believe Thompson shut it before it needed to be shut. That falls on him just as this season falls on him as the man in charge. Cosmetic changes such as firing an assistant coach or two isn't going to get things changed either. This team needs a significant change in how Thompson approaches building this team. I don't believe he can just build through the draft when his draft record isn't very strong. He needs to take a stronger role in free agency and he needs to be much more aggressive in terms of trades when the opportunity presents itself to improve his team. If he doesn't do those things, I'm not sure what realistic reasons there are to believe this team will be a Super Bowl contender again anytime soon.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

gettin a little tired of hearing people blame sherman for Bubba. That was all TT. Look it up.

I was too lazy to look it up, but appreciate you setting me (and others) straight. Thx.

The real root of this issue is a lot of people had developed some bad feelings for Favre. They claimed over and over how washed up he was, he had nothing left blah blah. Search for the threads. There are tons of them.He proved them wrong last year and people hate being wrong. This automatically causes them to defend TT. The same guys that defend Rodgers by stating how awful the defense is and how awful special teams are and how bad the offensive line is defend TT.You cant have it both ways. Either Rodgers is the problem and that points to TT, or the team is crappy and well that points to TT.

This isn't the root of the issue for me at all. I don't really care one bit about the Favre drama. Blame Favre, blame TT - I don't care.Bottom line: TT inherited a team that needed overhaul. He did a good job of the overhaul, but frankly the team has disappointed this year. People rightly should be upset with TT's job this year. This team has underperformed. I continue to be shocked that almost NOBODY is talking about the job McCarthy has done this year. We could easily be 8-5 if McCarthy was a better coach. Easily. So I find it difficult to pin everything on TT. I'd give him - and McCarthy - one more year to turn it around. If they are unable, I would can them both.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

But I recognize that if Crosby makes a 52 yd. kick in Minnesota, Woodson defends a hail mary to Smith at the end of the Carolina game, and Moll doesn't get the phantom holding call at the end of the Houston game, this team is 8-5 and this conversation isn't happening.

No offense, but that's the Bart Starr "Five Plays Away" nonsense that drove this team in the 80s. As Ron Wolf once said, you are what you are. Meaning, your record is who you are and everything else is just useless excuses. The Packers are a sub-.500 team and that's who they are. Less than a year ago, they were a legitimate Super Bowl contender. This is a significant decline and it's occurred under Thompson's watch. When this team regressed under Sherman, the fans went ballistic and rightfully so. Well it's regressed again, this time under Thompson, and I think the fans are well within their rights to go ballistic again - especially when you consider how little needs to be done to win the NFC North. The sad thing there is the Packers have gone from being the clear dominant team in the division to being third despite the fact this is a young team. The Vikings have a much stronger foundation in my opinion and the Bears are better as well at the present time. The point I made in the summer was that the window to be a Super Bowl contender doesn't stay open for very long. The Packers had that window and I believe Thompson shut it before it needed to be shut. That falls on him just as this season falls on him as the man in charge. Cosmetic changes such as firing an assistant coach or two isn't going to get things changed either. This team needs a significant change in how Thompson approaches building this team. I don't believe he can just build through the draft when his draft record isn't very strong. He needs to take a stronger role in free agency and he needs to be much more aggressive in terms of trades when the opportunity presents itself to improve his team. If he doesn't do those things, I'm not sure what realistic reasons there are to believe this team will be a Super Bowl contender again anytime soon.

Well said.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever.Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better. I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish. Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

Very

 

[Ookie Pringle]

Hey, you guys need to lay off TT. I mean, look at all this great depth on the team! Sure he may only have a mediocre overall record, but this depth is awesome. Hey I doubt if when Sherman was there that he could replace someone that was mediocre with someone else equally mediocre. That is progress! Depth all over this roster. Not only that but these guys can be around for many years. Who needs players that are good? Obviously Ted Thompson is a genius and will show everyone here up because a bunch of mediocre young players is definitely what it will take to make this team great! Not to mention, look at all that cap room! Know what's even better? It will still be there next year! That's right, Ted Thompson realizes the importance of keeping as much room as possible in the cap, and anyone who thinks that it could be used to sign a few free agents is obviously an idiot. Because if he signed some free agents, we wouldn't have all that cap room, and true football fans know how important that it is to have lots and lots of cap room.

 

[hauser42]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever. Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better. I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish. Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

Only reason people feel that TT did not want Brett is because he would not do what the QB wanted in player and coaching moves.Brett was welcomed back and when he sat down with McCarthy he was not giving the answers they wanted. He straigh out told McCarthy he would not be spending a lot of time in the film room.The money offer was offered a month after Brett retired and was brought up couple of times over the summer. Both sides have stated it was not offered for the first time when Brett wanted to come back.TT has built a solid foundation from a old team. Last year all the pieces fell into place to have a great record. With great talent around him last year Brett could not lead the team to the promise land. When the pressure was on in the big game he threw one of his great picks. This had become normal in his recent playoff losses.Jets have a better record. They got lucky on a hail mary against the Dolphins and for some reason this good team has lost to the lowly Raiders and 49ers. With the big injury to Brady this team has a great chance to win the division, but they let everyone back in it now.This season maybe screwed up, but it is all not on the GM. And if you thought even with Favre the Packers would be 13-3 again you are kidding yourself. Those type of seasons dont happen every year. IF TT did not want Brett back ever he would have moved him right away and started to rebuild without him.I could give a rat's ### what you think of me also. But to blatany leave out points and facts to keep your points look better is just you stroking your own ego.

 

[sho nuff]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever.Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.

Who does not admit this?

Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?

You mean the offer that was discussed in January?

Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.

He has also shown lately he cannot get over the hump and can lose with a minimal supporting cast.

Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.

After years of Chad Pennington and one with Kellen Clemmons...why would they complain with Favre? But most realize its not all about him either.

For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better.

Sounds like one guy does ruin your fan-dom...Favre. The only one putting labels on people are those not interested in getting better?Link to anyone not wanting them to get better? Just because we disagree in who the GM might be and that some of us think TT can make us better...does not mean we don't want them to get better.

I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish.

Down years were expected with the cap situation the Packers were in.Yes...those who just think anyone supporting Thompson are doing so blindly need to get off their high horse. If you think I am on some high horse...you need to read again at the responses that have come my way. Its pretty obvious its the other way around.And those who cannot just come out and say what they mean look even more foolish. You mean me...say it. Stop beating around the bush.

Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

That he did not want him back is irrelevant. Had Favre not retired, he would be a Packer right now. Thompson would not have done a thing to move him had he not done a few things himself. Something some of you still don't want to admit.Well, Im glad one man did ruin you from being afan. You can say what you want...but to turn your back on the team because of a dislike of the GM is a bit out there IMO.And the name calling (lemmings) just because others don't agree with you is a bit childish too.

 

[sho nuff]

For those issuing their full support of Thompson isn't it possible, just possible, that maybe, just maybe, Thompson didn't have that good of a year this year? Players have bad years. Coaches can have bad years. Why can't GMs have bad years?This season has been a MAJOR disappointment for the Packers and fans who do not treat it as such leave me mystified. To go from being a young team that was a Super Bowl contender to being an also-ran and a pitiful distant third in arguably the worst division in football is not a good year. Is it not possible then that the GM, who's in charge of making sure the season is a success, has some culpability in that? What I find odd among those who defend Thompson to the death is their utter refusal to hold him accountable for anything that goes wrong. They just rally behind the cry that he's better than Sherman (which he is but is rather faint praise) and that the team is poised for greatness despite the current fact that there's nothing to suggest that will be the case anytime soon even though this team was on the verge of greatness less than one year ago.

Who is issuing full support of Thompson? Even I have not done that.Who has not thought this year was disappointing? Yes, the GM has some culpability...Im still waiting for one of you arguing this to find any poster who does not think Thompson has some blame in it.Nobody is not holding him accountable for some things. It simply is another point you all are arguing that nobody is actually making.

 

[sho nuff]

gettin a little tired of hearing people blame sherman for Bubba. That was all TT. Look it up.KGB's deal was not a bad deal. The packers could have cut him before this season and not had to pay his 6.15 million this year. The remaining signing bonus money was 1.5 million. The reason it became a bad deal is because numbnuts retained him, then released him.If you have 7 million dollars in cap space and a guy who was going to hit your cap for 8 million dollars does it really take a genius to let him go? Considering its against the rules, its not so hard. The real root of this issue is a lot of people had developed some bad feelings for Favre. They claimed over and over how washed up he was, he had nothing left blah blah. Search for the threads. There are tons of them.He proved them wrong last year and people hate being wrong. This automatically causes them to defend TT. The same guys that defend Rodgers by stating how awful the defense is and how awful special teams are and how bad the offensive line is defend TT.You cant have it both ways. Either Rodgers is the problem and that points to TT, or the team is crappy and well that points to TT.Lets say you think the coach is crappy. Well guess who is the idiot GM who hired a nobody coordinator from a couple crappy teams?

You continue to get tired of people for getting on Sherman when not many are. Especially Bubba. That point was made when? How long ago? Not even sure I have seen it in this thread (but I might be mistaken).KGB was overpaid. I have said that for several years now. He is a one dimensional player who was slowly fading at even that.I think TT and the coaches thought they could get one more year out of the guy and were not so sure what they had in Thompson and Montgomery enough to just release the guy.You won't find one thread with me claiming the guy was washed up. Any feelings I have about him that are negative are a direct reflection of his own actions. I loved how he played last year. It was great. Does not mean his play the previous 2 years was any good.I will defend Rodgers from some of the crap that gets posted here. Because the defense and special teams are, in fact, bad. Worse than last year actually.Nobody is trying to have anything both ways. The defense is crappy. Some of that is on TT...some of it is on the actual players to play up to how they have in the past. Some of it is on injuries. Some of it is on coaching as well. There is not just one way to go.Sanders was kept/hired IMO because he was familiar with Bates' system. Bates, however, was a better GM overall.

 

[sho nuff]

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

You deny my definition of a fan?Its the actual definition of one. Not sure how anyone can be a Packer fan...while not actually cheering for the Packers...but for the Jets instead. That seems to make that person a Jets fan.How can someone who does not care if the Packers have fallen from 13-3 to 5-8 hold the Packers dearly in their heart. Its a complete contradiction.To dare defend a person and call them a Packer fan...when they refuse to cheer for the actual Packers is what is out there.Nevermind that nobody has questioned anyone's right to speak displeasure nor does anyone questioning him make them less of a fan.Nobodies mind is disclosed to those expressing disatisfaction with the team. Do it all you want. But don't claim to be a fan...but not even cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of.Pitied? No thanks...I don't want your false pity based on complete BS.

 

[Mario Kart]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever. Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better. I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish. Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

Only reason people feel that TT did not want Brett is because he would not do what the QB wanted in player and coaching moves.Brett was welcomed back and when he sat down with McCarthy he was not giving the answers they wanted. He straigh out told McCarthy he would not be spending a lot of time in the film room.The money offer was offered a month after Brett retired and was brought up couple of times over the summer. Both sides have stated it was not offered for the first time when Brett wanted to come back.TT has built a solid foundation from a old team. Last year all the pieces fell into place to have a great record. With great talent around him last year Brett could not lead the team to the promise land. When the pressure was on in the big game he threw one of his great picks. This had become normal in his recent playoff losses.Jets have a better record. They got lucky on a hail mary against the Dolphins and for some reason this good team has lost to the lowly Raiders and 49ers. With the big injury to Brady this team has a great chance to win the division, but they let everyone back in it now.This season maybe screwed up, but it is all not on the GM. And if you thought even with Favre the Packers would be 13-3 again you are kidding yourself. Those type of seasons dont happen every year. IF TT did not want Brett back ever he would have moved him right away and started to rebuild without him.I could give a rat's ### what you think of me also. But to blatany leave out points and facts to keep your points look better is just you stroking your own ego.

Excuse, after excuse, after excuse. Thanks for playing.

 

[Mario Kart]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever.Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.

Who does not admit this?

Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?

You mean the offer that was discussed in January?

Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.

He has also shown lately he cannot get over the hump and can lose with a minimal supporting cast.

Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.

After years of Chad Pennington and one with Kellen Clemmons...why would they complain with Favre? But most realize its not all about him either.

For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better.

Sounds like one guy does ruin your fan-dom...Favre. The only one putting labels on people are those not interested in getting better?Link to anyone not wanting them to get better? Just because we disagree in who the GM might be and that some of us think TT can make us better...does not mean we don't want them to get better.

I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish.

Down years were expected with the cap situation the Packers were in.Yes...those who just think anyone supporting Thompson are doing so blindly need to get off their high horse. If you think I am on some high horse...you need to read again at the responses that have come my way. Its pretty obvious its the other way around.And those who cannot just come out and say what they mean look even more foolish. You mean me...say it. Stop beating around the bush.

Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

That he did not want him back is irrelevant. Had Favre not retired, he would be a Packer right now. Thompson would not have done a thing to move him had he not done a few things himself. Something some of you still don't want to admit.Well, Im glad one man did ruin you from being afan. You can say what you want...but to turn your back on the team because of a dislike of the GM is a bit out there IMO.And the name calling (lemmings) just because others don't agree with you is a bit childish too.

And, once again, excuse after excuse after excuse.Did you take my word usage of "lemmings" a little personally? If you did, are you claiming to be a lemming? Never did I say that was directed at anyone here, however, if that fits who you are, I guess.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.

These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.

Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.

For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

You deny my definition of a fan?Its the actual definition of one. Not sure how anyone can be a Packer fan...while not actually cheering for the Packers...but for the Jets instead. That seems to make that person a Jets fan.

How can someone who does not care if the Packers have fallen from 13-3 to 5-8 hold the Packers dearly in their heart. Its a complete contradiction.

To dare defend a person and call them a Packer fan...when they refuse to cheer for the actual Packers is what is out there.

Nevermind that nobody has questioned anyone's right to speak displeasure nor does anyone questioning him make them less of a fan.

Nobodies mind is disclosed to those expressing disatisfaction with the team. Do it all you want. But don't claim to be a fan...but not even cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of.

Pitied? No thanks...I don't want your false pity based on complete BS.

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

 

[madd futher]

As a lifelong Packer fan, I'd suggest that Thompson has done a great job under very difficult circumstances.

I understand that many do not like how the Favre situation played out but the fact is that Thompson made the absolutely right decision.

Personally I don't give a hoot if 49% think that Thompson should be fired. I would argue that 49% of football fans THINK they know enough about the situation to venture an opinion, but that those 49% consist mainly of uninformed idiots.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

 

[sho nuff]

Some things never change. Tigers don't change their spots, leopards don't change their stripes, and lions don't change their spots. All in all, the Shark Pool posters do not change their views, do not change posting habits, and some continue to post more than others in hopes of changing minds.Ted Thompson did not want Favre back... ever.Favre did retire and wanting to come back... something many have done in the past.Favre was not welcomed back to the Packers... a fact some don't want to admit.

Who does not admit this?

Thompson would not release Favre and wanted to buy him off... 25 million ring a bell?

You mean the offer that was discussed in January?

Thompson has not produced a winning team shown by his overall record... Favre was a part of this.Favre has shown over and over that he can win with minimal supporting cast... Sherman years and last year.

He has also shown lately he cannot get over the hump and can lose with a minimal supporting cast.

Favre was able to move on and become successful with a new team... I don't hear Jets fans complaining.Thompson knows he has screwed somethings up... he has time to fix them but how much time?Thompson needs to right the ship however he can... and soon.

After years of Chad Pennington and one with Kellen Clemmons...why would they complain with Favre? But most realize its not all about him either.

For those of you arguing about what a "fan" is, who are you to determine who a fan is? I have cheered for the Packers and Favre. Currently, I find myself cheering more for Favre than I do the Packers yet I still call myself a Packers fan. Why? Because one guy does not ruin my fan-dom for a team... i.e. Thompson. I don't much care for what is going on in Green Bay because of the guy at the top... I did not like it four years ago either, oh well. Call me a band wagon jumper because the only one putting labels on people are those who are not interested in getting things better.

Sounds like one guy does ruin your fan-dom...Favre. The only one putting labels on people are those not interested in getting better?Link to anyone not wanting them to get better? Just because we disagree in who the GM might be and that some of us think TT can make us better...does not mean we don't want them to get better.

I want the Packers back to winning and this one year is not a down year... three of the last four are down years. Does Rodgers have promise? Sure, but does the direction of the team have promise? I am not so sure about that. Some people need to get off of their high horse in the Shark Pool because it only makes you look foolish. I won't name names because you know who you are but if I post 1 time, or 20 times, or 500 times... I am less likely to "listen" to the guy who can hit the reply button more and more. Say what you have to say and move on because the bickering makes you look even more foolish.

Down years were expected with the cap situation the Packers were in.Yes...those who just think anyone supporting Thompson are doing so blindly need to get off their high horse. If you think I am on some high horse...you need to read again at the responses that have come my way. Its pretty obvious its the other way around.And those who cannot just come out and say what they mean look even more foolish. You mean me...say it. Stop beating around the bush.

Thompson did not want Favre back... ever... leave it at that and move on. Accept that and move on however you want to move on. I choose to move on with Favre and leave my Packers fan status for others to decide. Why? Because I could give two craps about what kind of fan you think I am. I am disheartened by how the Packers handles Favre... oh well... I have moved on. I will move back to being a Green Bay Packers fan through and through when the bad seeds are out of there... i.e. Thompson. He needs to go stroke his ego some more and let the lemmings let us know everything is okay when numbers do not lie and tell more of a story than those lemmings.

That he did not want him back is irrelevant. Had Favre not retired, he would be a Packer right now. Thompson would not have done a thing to move him had he not done a few things himself. Something some of you still don't want to admit.Well, Im glad one man did ruin you from being afan. You can say what you want...but to turn your back on the team because of a dislike of the GM is a bit out there IMO.And the name calling (lemmings) just because others don't agree with you is a bit childish too.

And, once again, excuse after excuse after excuse.Did you take my word usage of "lemmings" a little personally? If you did, are you claiming to be a lemming? Never did I say that was directed at anyone here, however, if that fits who you are, I guess.

They are not excuses...its called reasoning.Just like there are reasons for every win and loss. Just because you don't like what was said, does not make it an excuse.I don't care what you want to call me...but after going on about what makes others look foolish, you feel into the usual namecalling.You know darn well who all it was aimed at...deny it all you want.But this is about the response I have come to expect...just mocking and calling them excuses...rather than actually being able to have an intelligent debate with someone who might disagree with you.

 

[sho nuff]

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.

These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.

Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.

For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

You deny my definition of a fan?Its the actual definition of one. Not sure how anyone can be a Packer fan...while not actually cheering for the Packers...but for the Jets instead. That seems to make that person a Jets fan.

How can someone who does not care if the Packers have fallen from 13-3 to 5-8 hold the Packers dearly in their heart. Its a complete contradiction.

To dare defend a person and call them a Packer fan...when they refuse to cheer for the actual Packers is what is out there.

Nevermind that nobody has questioned anyone's right to speak displeasure nor does anyone questioning him make them less of a fan.

Nobodies mind is disclosed to those expressing disatisfaction with the team. Do it all you want. But don't claim to be a fan...but not even cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of.

Pitied? No thanks...I don't want your false pity based on complete BS.

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

I recognize the truth...you are a Vikings fan who seems very bitter for some reason.I will question someone being a fan if they are not cheering for the team.

I don't question someone being a fan for questioning the GM or management. They can do that all they want. Not sure how many times you need to hear that before it sinks in.

Umm...I have never insinuated that at all. I have said pretty clearly, if you cheer for the jets and Favre and refuse to cheer for the Packers...you are, in fact, a Jets fan and not a Packer fan. hard to be a Packers fan if you just won't even cheer for them.

Since when do fans know what is best to make a team great? Expect them to fail...fine. I have no problem with that. Actively wanting a team to fail and not cheering for them but another team...sorry, that is not a fan.

I don't judge myself superior...you are again arguing something nobody here is doing. I guess that makes you feel good about yourself...I have no idea why else you are doing such things.

 

[ScottyFargo]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread.

The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan.

I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

I am also saying that the bolded is a close-minded and segregationalistic. It is a sweeping generalization that minimizes the impact that this past season's actions have had on otherwise happy fans of the franchise.

 

[sho nuff]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

Because he wants to keep arguing. Then blame it all on everyone else.

 

[sho nuff]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread.

The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan.

I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

I am also saying that the bolded is a close-minded and segregationalistic. It is a sweeping generalization that minimizes the impact that this past season's actions have had on otherwise happy fans of the franchise.

Its a definition of a fan.Its not segregationalist...or fascist...or an attempt to pain anyone superior or inferior.

its the definition of a fan.

And its not a generalization...its aimed specifically at those who are not supporting another team more than the team they claim to be a fan of. Or not even supporting the team they claim to be a fan of at all.

This past seasons actions should not make you quit cheering for a team yet still call yourself a fan of the team.

If you don't still want the team to succeed and still pull for them...I have every right to question that kind of person as a fan.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.

These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.

Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.

For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

You deny my definition of a fan?Its the actual definition of one. Not sure how anyone can be a Packer fan...while not actually cheering for the Packers...but for the Jets instead. That seems to make that person a Jets fan.

How can someone who does not care if the Packers have fallen from 13-3 to 5-8 hold the Packers dearly in their heart. Its a complete contradiction.

To dare defend a person and call them a Packer fan...when they refuse to cheer for the actual Packers is what is out there.

Nevermind that nobody has questioned anyone's right to speak displeasure nor does anyone questioning him make them less of a fan.

Nobodies mind is disclosed to those expressing disatisfaction with the team. Do it all you want. But don't claim to be a fan...but not even cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of.

Pitied? No thanks...I don't want your false pity based on complete BS.

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

I recognize the truth...you are a Vikings fan who seems very bitter for some reason.I will question someone being a fan if they are not cheering for the team.

I don't question someone being a fan for questioning the GM or management. They can do that all they want. Not sure how many times you need to hear that before it sinks in.

Umm...I have never insinuated that at all. I have said pretty clearly, if you cheer for the jets and Favre and refuse to cheer for the Packers...you are, in fact, a Jets fan and not a Packer fan. hard to be a Packers fan if you just won't even cheer for them.

Since when do fans know what is best to make a team great? Expect them to fail...fine. I have no problem with that. Actively wanting a team to fail and not cheering for them but another team...sorry, that is not a fan.

I don't judge myself superior...you are again arguing something nobody here is doing. I guess that makes you feel good about yourself...I have no idea why else you are doing such things.

I never said you were the one insinuating that anyone WAS a faux-fan, that person was quoted in my OP. I have argued this entire time that denigrating fans who are critical of the franchise is tantamount to calling people who are critical of the govn't unpatriotic, when ironically there could be nothing more patriotic, or holding the essence of a fan, than to be critical. If some fans choose to voice their fanhood / patriotism by protesting, then bully for them. If that protesting includes cheering for the Jets in Favre's last season, they are hardly shipping themselves off to NYC. They'll resume being Packer fans once the franchise that they want to love more resembles the franchise they fell in love with. In this instance it's safe to say that would include firing TT and not allowing players images to be tarnished over personal vendettas.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Huge paragraphs of stuff, you say?

 

[sho nuff]

I deny your rigid definition of fan. I have already outlined the reasons that Packer fans might support Brett Favre in what may be his final year playing football. I am aware that you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibilities that different people will react to situations in different manners. Only a great hurt would drive most fans away from their team even for a limited time, and those who choose to do so are basing their decision for moral reasons. It is this very essence that allows me to identify those men and women as fans, disenfranchised fans, but fans all the same, who are letting their viewpoints known without shame.

These fans who support Favre on his final tour, who wish to see him have success and care not a whit of the Packer's fall from 13-3 to 5-8 in the span of a season, I challenge you to consider that they do not hold the Packers any less dearly in their heart. It in only through a massive schism that they choose a side, and make their opinion known that they deserve better than what has been offered to them. To dare say that they are less of a fan because they care so much is cruel and woefully shortsighted.

Nevermind that my original post was not even referencing someone who suspended his "fanhood" of the Packers, just the implications that he should given his opinion of the Favre/TT manner made him less of a fan than TT supporters. Yes, I am not surprised that the juxtoposition of a protesting fan not settling for the actions of this Packers front office and taking the hard road by continuing to support Favre based only on his time as a Packer is difficult for you to handle. Your mind is already closed to the possibility of expressing ones disatisfaction with their favorite team in any way but to swallow it whole.

For those fans who do not choose to accept the status quo, who are able to voice their opinions without fear as they are secure in thier fanhood, congratulations. Do not bow down to the pressure of those who feel they may question your fanhood; they are to be pitied for their tunnel vision and rigid thinking.

You deny my definition of a fan?Its the actual definition of one. Not sure how anyone can be a Packer fan...while not actually cheering for the Packers...but for the Jets instead. That seems to make that person a Jets fan.

How can someone who does not care if the Packers have fallen from 13-3 to 5-8 hold the Packers dearly in their heart. Its a complete contradiction.

To dare defend a person and call them a Packer fan...when they refuse to cheer for the actual Packers is what is out there.

Nevermind that nobody has questioned anyone's right to speak displeasure nor does anyone questioning him make them less of a fan.

Nobodies mind is disclosed to those expressing disatisfaction with the team. Do it all you want. But don't claim to be a fan...but not even cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of.

Pitied? No thanks...I don't want your false pity based on complete BS.

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

I recognize the truth...you are a Vikings fan who seems very bitter for some reason.I will question someone being a fan if they are not cheering for the team.

I don't question someone being a fan for questioning the GM or management. They can do that all they want. Not sure how many times you need to hear that before it sinks in.

Umm...I have never insinuated that at all. I have said pretty clearly, if you cheer for the jets and Favre and refuse to cheer for the Packers...you are, in fact, a Jets fan and not a Packer fan. hard to be a Packers fan if you just won't even cheer for them.

Since when do fans know what is best to make a team great? Expect them to fail...fine. I have no problem with that. Actively wanting a team to fail and not cheering for them but another team...sorry, that is not a fan.

I don't judge myself superior...you are again arguing something nobody here is doing. I guess that makes you feel good about yourself...I have no idea why else you are doing such things.

I never said you were the one insinuating that anyone WAS a faux-fan, that person was quoted in my OP. I have argued this entire time that denigrating fans who are critical of the franchise is tantamount to calling people who are critical of the govn't unpatriotic, when ironically there could be nothing more patriotic, or holding the essence of a fan, than to be critical. If some fans choose to voice their fanhood / patriotism by protesting, then bully for them. If that protesting includes cheering for the Jets in Favre's last season, they are hardly shipping themselves off to NYC. They'll resume being Packer fans once the franchise that they want to love more resembles the franchise they fell in love with. In this instance it's safe to say that would include firing TT and not allowing players images to be tarnished over personal vendettas.

One person made a sarcastic comment about changing from green n gold to green n white.And you have gone off on this ridiculous rant.

There are very few who are seriously denigrating anyone for being critical of the franchise.

And not one person, despite your ranting and raving, has told someone they don't have the right to be critical.

Protest all you want...thats not a big deal either. Cheer for the Jets all you want. No big deal.

But don't drop the team you are supposedly a fan of and still call yourself a fan.

And to claim it was a personal vendetta is complete and utter BS and you know it.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread.

The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan.

I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

I am also saying that the bolded is a close-minded and segregationalistic. It is a sweeping generalization that minimizes the impact that this past season's actions have had on otherwise happy fans of the franchise.

It's the truth. Deal with it.Wait, are you a Vikings fan? If so, that would explain it. Vikings fans don't understand the concept of loyalty to a team.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I am also saying that the bolded is a close-minded and segregationalistic. It is a sweeping generalization that minimizes the impact that this past season's actions have had on otherwise happy fans of the franchise.

Its a definition of a fan.Its not segregationalist...or fascist...or an attempt to pain anyone superior or inferior.its the definition of a fan.And its not a generalization...its aimed specifically at those who are not supporting another team more than the team they claim to be a fan of. Or not even supporting the team they claim to be a fan of at all.This past seasons actions should not make you quit cheering for a team yet still call yourself a fan of the team.If you don't still want the team to succeed and still pull for them...I have every right to question that kind of person as a fan.

It is A definition of fan, but not the only definition of fan. Some people react differently and hold their teams to such a strict standard that such abhorrent behavior as was witnessed this offseason is so offputting that their reaction is on a visceral level, and I completely understand anyone who might not be able to stomach through such blatant disregard for a player of Favre's caliber, or mishandling of the franchise as a whole, and in their anger and frustration find a different route of expressing their feelings than to blindly support a poorly playing and poorly run franchise until the issues that they feel need addressed are done so to their satisfaction.

 

[ScottyFargo]

It's the truth. Deal with it.Wait, are you a Vikings fan? If so, that would explain it. Vikings fans don't understand the concept of loyalty to a team.

 

[bcr8f]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

If Favre succeeds so do the Packers. That's the beauty of the trade. I want a first rounder.Favre is 39 Rodgers 24, It was time to move on possibly lose Rodgers. There will be bumps in the road but how would Brett improve the defense?> They have been the biggest problem this season.For the Favre lovers-what will the Pack do when he retires? I want a serious answer. Are you gambling the future for a few wins?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

Because he wants to keep arguing. Then blame it all on everyone else.

Yeah, basically everytime he loses a debate, he just redefines the debate parameters. It would be a brilliant strategy if done intentionally. However, when done unintentionally.....well, I'll let people draw their own conclusions about the poster in question.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

It's the truth. Deal with it.Wait, are you a Vikings fan? If so, that would explain it. Vikings fans don't understand the concept of loyalty to a team.

Roll your eyes all you want. A true, die-hard fan will NEVER root for another team over his own. Ever.It is PERFECTLY within bounds, however, for a die-hard fan to criticize his team. Those are two very different ideas. I hope that you are intelligent enough to see the difference. But keep rolling your eyes and refusing to acknowledge that anyone else might have something to say.

 

[ScottyFargo]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

Because he wants to keep arguing. Then blame it all on everyone else.

Yeah, basically everytime he loses a debate, he just redefines the debate parameters. It would be a brilliant strategy if done intentionally. However, when done unintentionally.....well, I'll let people draw their own conclusions about the poster in question.

Really? Interesting that you feel that way when there are specific posters in this thread who happen to have come to the same conclusion that I have, and don't define themselves any differently for it.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

You are in denial and refuse to recognize the truth. As I said, denigrating remarks that question ones fanhood are questioning their rights to speak dispelasure, ie: insinuating that someone who speaks up for Favre IS in fact rooting for the Jets, as one poster has done in this very thread. The very essence of being a fan is to desire greatness, and when your team is making the exact opposite moves that you believe make them great, then you have every right to expect them to fail, and to that point, rooting for another team to succeed in the face of that failure works to the very same end. You can be a fan and recognize that your team can not succeed with the failings of upper management, players, etc. etc. etc. Not being a blockhead does not make you less of a fan, no matter how much you want to pigeonhole someone inside of a little box so you can better categorize their relationship with their team, and judge yourself superior to them for it.

What I hear you saying: people are criticizing Packer fans who still root for Favre and the Jets What some of us are actually saying: if you now root for the Jets over the Packers, you never were a real Packer fan. I stand by that statement. And I still like Favre.

Because he wants to keep arguing. Then blame it all on everyone else.

Yeah, basically everytime he loses a debate, he just redefines the debate parameters. It would be a brilliant strategy if done intentionally. However, when done unintentionally.....well, I'll let people draw their own conclusions about the poster in question.

Really? Interesting that you feel that way when there are specific posters in this thread who happen to have come to the same conclusion that I have, and don't define themselves any differently for it.

Well, first you claimed that people were saying "if you root for Favre, that is bad". Then I explained "no, we're saying if you root for the Jets first, Packers second, you aren't a true fan". In other words, your strawman argument didn't hold, so now you are changing course.Please clear it up for us once and for all: what conclusion have you reached?