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Bill Maher on obesity (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
Not everyone has control over their situation, but many in the typical FBG demo do. If health really is a priority then they have the ability to apply changes to their life to minimizing the stresses derived from what you described. We don't have to be available 24/7. We have (at least some) control over our availability.sychiatrist voice: It's OK to be wrong : /psychiatrist voice:.
Seriously, in our 24/7 on-duty all the time world the persistent stress levels are not what humans are built for - and I do think it's a modern phenomena.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
"I'm not overweight, doc, I'm just dense."
Yep, and the Doc is a little fat butterball. I wanted to tell him he needs to drop 30.
Sand
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Ideally, yes. But it’s expensive to perform accurate fat/muscle measurement, and unnecessary for the vast majority of the population. Plus the required tests (DEXA or CT) involve radiation exposure.
BMI has proven itself as a valid surrogate for most people. And contrary to popular belief, it underestimates body fat more often than characterizes muscular people as obese.
And while it’s certainly possible he was small, have you considered the doctor is regular-sized, and you’re a big guy? At your height, 210 with abs is certainly an outlier.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I’d have trouble respecting a doctor who didn’t lead a healthy lifestyle. They can still do their job well, of course, but really need to practice what they preach IMO.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I wonder if any doctors hesitate to tell their female patients they could stand to lose some weight. I'm talking those in the overweight to mildly obese categories."I'm not overweight, doc, I'm just dense."
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djmich
Footballguy
If they still have a practice then I'm guessing they correctly assessed none of their female patients need to lose weight.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Doctors aren’t supposed to date or marry their patients, so I can’t imagine them caring much about suggesting females lose weight.Captain Cranks said:
dkp993
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
I met with an allergist who was way overweight and upon testing positive for just about every environmental allergen she told me that I should avoid mountain biking for about 6 months out of the year due to potential pollen in the air and if I must go outside I should wear an N95 mask. I guess she is preaching what she is practicing, but it won’t work for me.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
That’s thin, for sure, but I’d wager the average 210 pound guy is more likely to have health problems.
dkp993
Footballguy
You’re a doctor so I defer to your knowledge but when I graduated HS I was 6 foot 155 and I was a rail. Another 20 lbs less then that I can’t fathom being healthy.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
A few years ago I was 6-0 205 and running 4-5 miles at an 8 minute pace. Not lifting much at that time though I had a little over the years. I would look like a concentration camp photo at 137. Some people just aren’t built to be light imo. I’m probably in denial
dkp993
Footballguy
No your point about someone’s frame or build is valid. My best friend and I are both 6 feet even. I have a medium or average frame. He’s got a much bigger frame (wrists are far thicker, shoulders are wider, bigger head etc etc). At 200lbs I look fine but could lose 10/15lbs (185ish is right for me), him at 200 looks unhealthy (almost like an alien, big head on a too skinny body). 220 is when he looks healthiest but he’s often 240. Bottom line, frame matters.A few years ago I was 6-0 205 and running 4-5 miles at an 8 minute pace. Not lifting much at that time though I had a little over the years. I would look like a concentration camp photo at 137. Some people just aren’t built to be light imo. I’m probably in denial
Caveman33
Footballguy
Genetics are powerful stuff. I'm usually 180 lbs at 6'7". Had friends in the military who could gain weight on half the calories.A few years ago I was 6-0 205 and running 4-5 miles at an 8 minute pace. Not lifting much at that time though I had a little over the years. I would look like a concentration camp photo at 137. Some people just aren’t built to be light imo. I’m probably in denial
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yeah, need to have chicken legs. I have a friend who is 6 foot 4 and a little under 160, same ballpark bmi
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
137 is quite thin, no doubt. But 160-180 is possible with an athletic build at that height.A few years ago I was 6-0 205 and running 4-5 miles at an 8 minute pace. Not lifting much at that time though I had a little over the years. I would look like a concentration camp photo at 137. Some people just aren’t built to be light imo. I’m probably in denial
I used to run DEXA scans, which measure bone density, fat and muscle content. I was always amazed how puny the skeletons of bigger people looked in comparison to their extra tissue, which was mostly fat. As it turns out, we’re all built on roughly the same frame, with few exceptions.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Fat is good
if you try to not be fat, don't expect your fat peers to support your efforts
https://apple.news/A6BZuDyOcRfitpmTE7FlhRg
It’s important to accept who we are and our uniqueness. We have to accept our genetics. The more we can accept our bodies, the healthier we are likely to be. Believe that our bodies know best.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, that's me, except I'm taller and proportionately heavier. Same general build though.
Strangely, nobody ever asks me to help out on moving day . . .
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
I am 6'1" i weighed 135 in high school. I was crazy skinny. I was maybe 3% body fat. It isn't a great look, so maybe a problem for getting laid, but not for your health.
dkp993
Footballguy
Sure but I’d argue what’s OK for you at 16 isn’t necessarily OK for you at 36 or 46 or 56…
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Agreed. Terrible.
Pryor: If somebody said to me, “Oh my gosh, you look great. You’ve lost some weight,” I would find myself thinking, “What did you think of me beforehand? Was I not acceptable?”
Yes, we found you gross and generally unattractive before - us telling you look great now is a gentle way of telling you that.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
"We do tend to operate (as if) we can somehow look at people and, based on body size, determine whether they're healthy,"
If, by "we", she means disease, then yes.
Dickies
Footballguy
I agree with this generally. Being a healthy weight does not necessarily mean you're healthy. I know skinny people who are in absolutely terrible physical shape, and in my job I come across people who are healthy weights who have all kinds of issues with their lab work.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Reducing the number of smokers in this country is probably a significant factor that has driven the increase in obesity. It's a good trade-off overall, but it does appear to be a trade-off.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
But "fruits and veggies are good while desserts and fried foods are bad" is pretty much all you need to know. Everything else is a minor, relatively inconsequential detail, IMO.
supermike80
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
I disagree with "most of the time", but will say that being an unhealthy weight increases the likelihood of being unhealthy.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Not sure I get the flow through here. They aren't going to make Twinkies sweeter because the sweetener is cheap. They aren't going to put it in butter just to fill out the weight.
Sure they will use it instead of sugar, but how much healthier are items made with sugar compared to HFCS?
the moops
Footballguy
Maybe more abundance of unhealthy choices with hfcs because of how cheap it is?
Yes, they
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/avoid-the-hidden-dangers-of-high-fructose-corn-syrup-video/
High fructose corn syrup has crept into more of our foods over the last few decades. Compared with regular sugar, it’s cheaper and sweeter, and is more quickly absorbed into your body. But eating too much high fructose corn syrup can lead to insulin resistance, obesity, type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure.
Fructose was initially thought to be a better choice for diabetics due to its low glycemic index. But only your liver cells can process fructose, and that’s where the problems begin.
“Fructose goes straight to your liver and starts a fat production factory,” Dr. Hyman says. “It triggers the production of triglycerides and cholesterol.” He explains that it’s actually the sugar — not the fat — that causes the most trouble for your cholesterol.
What’s even worse, Dr. Hyman notes, is high doses of fructose “punch little holes in your intestinal lining, causing what we call a leaky gut.” He explains that this allows foreign food proteins and bacterial proteins to enter into your bloodstream, which triggers inflammation, makes you gain weight and causes type 2 diabetes.
Increases appetite, promotes obesity
Studies show that high fructose corn syrup increases your appetite and it promotes obesity more than regular sugar. “High fructose corn syrup also contributes to diabetes, inflammation, high triglycerides, and something we call non-alcoholic fatty liver disease,” says Dr. Hyman. He says it increases all the fat in the liver which now affects over 90 million Americans.
“It can even cause fibrosis or what we call cirrhosis. In fact, sugar in our diet is now the major cause of liver failure and that makes sugar the leading cause of liver transplants,” says Dr. Hyman.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Hasn't it just replaced sugar?
I don't think they started making sweet hot dogs just because HFCS is cheap.
ETA: just looked it seems like corn syrup is in hot dogs, not HFCS.
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Manster
Footballguy
It's a huge problem.....but so is changing it to organic cane sugar and marketing it like it's suddenly healthy
Sweeteners are not exceptions to the general rule that demand curves for goods will slope downward and to the right.
Consider two parallel universes. In the first universe, sugar is $4/lb and HFCS is $5/lb. (The HFCS may contain filler so that it has the same calories as sugar by weight.) In the second universe, corn is subsidized, so sugar is still $4/lb but HFCS is $3/lb.
You can expect two things to happen in the second universe compared to the first: (1) food manufacturers will substitute away from sugar in favor of HFCS at the margin, and (2) people will consume more total calories from sweeteners.
The second effect will happen in two ways. Bakers could make their products sweeter and more densely caloric, so people will consume more calories from added sweeteners even if their cupcake consumption remains constant. Or bakers could switch from sugar to HFCS without increasing the number of calories in each cupcake, but now that cupcakes are cheaper, people will eat more cupcakes on average. Both effects are likely to occur in combination.
The upshot: When people already consume too many calories from added sweeteners, you can expect subsidies for added sweeteners to have adverse health effects.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
What specifically are you concerned about?
FTR, one of my health goals is not to exceed my weight in college (so far, so good). While it’s not quite what I weighed at 16 (mostly due to a lot of wasted time in the gym), I don’t think setting the target lower would be deleterious to my health.
I guess you could argue maintaining muscle mass is important as we age, but that doesn’t really come into play until later in life.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Your point is valid, but sustained low single digit body fat % can be a problem.
dkp993
Footballguy
To be clear I’m not talking about just being thin and generally healthy, I think that’s a universal truth as to thin being healthier then overweight. I’m talking specifically about the BMI index bottom tier of a 6 foot tall man weighing 137 pounds. That feels to me unhealthy and malnourished. That could lead to lots of problems with your immune system and your general overall health. Am I drawing these conclusions from years of medical experience? No. I’m just drawing it from the conclusion of being a skinny person for the majority of my youth and 20’s. And that’s 20lbs lighter then I ever was at that height.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Portion control, limiting alcohol intake and avoiding sugar sweetened beverages are also important. Appropriate salt and fiber intake are up there as well (for general health).
What’s not up there: demonizing an entire class of macronutrient, organic/grass fed/free range etc., and adding protein to everything. Not sure why we fixate on all the inconsequential stuff.
Yes on portion control. I'd say that sugar-sweetened beverages morally count as dessert, and fiber is included in fruits and veggies. Good point on alcohol, to the extent that's considered a dietary issue.
Michael Pollan says: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."
I say: "Eat more fruits and veggies. Limit fried foods and desserts. Don't be too weird about it."
Pollan's is better than mine, but either way, things aren't as complicated as many people make them out to be. Should grains be emphasized or minimized? I don't think it matters since they're neither essential nor harmful (in reasonable amounts, absent special intolerances or allergies). Same with meat. Same with whatever else is considered controversial that day. None of it is worth stressing out about if you get the basics right. (Avoiding entire food groups or macronutrients counts as being weird.) JMHO.
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