Cleveland Browns (31 Viewers)

[Faust]

Ben Watson could be Cleveland Browns camp casualty

By Brian McIntyre

Around the League writer

"Around the League" is taking a look at each team's salary-cap situation heading into training camp. Next up: The Cleveland Browns.

Adjusted cap number: $130.647 million

Cap room remaining: $17.775 million

Best bargain: Jabaal Sheard. Like the Cincinnati Bengals did with quarterback Andy Dalton, the other Ohio-based team found its biggest bargain in the second round of the 2011 NFL Draft. Selected with the No. 37 overall pick, Sheard is due $556,375 in base salary with a $1,156,375 cap number in 2012. If he produces anywhere near what he did during his rookie season, that's a steal.

Football Outsiders' sackSEER statistic, which projects the five-year sack totals for incoming 4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 outsider linebackers, was not particularly high on Sheard, projecting the former Pitt standout for 10.6 sacks by Year Five. Sheard is just three sacks away from beating that projection after posting a team-high 8.5 sacks last season. If last season's playing-time is any indicator for how the Browns plan to use Sheard going forward, he'll have ample opportunities to get those three sacks. According to official playing-time documents, Sheard played in over 88 percent of the team's defensive snaps last season.

Potential camp casualty: The Browns have plenty of cap space, so that is not likely to be a motivating factor when the team is shaping their 53-man roster. However, health concerns could be. With veteran tight end Ben Watson due $2.88 million in currently non-guaranteed base salary in the final year of his contract, the multiple concussions he sustained last season could be a determining factor in his roster status.

Contract issue looming in 2013: From a contract standpoint, nothing is pressing for the Cleveland Browns next offseason. Most of their unrestricted free agents in 2013 are either well over 30 (Scott Fujita, Sheldon Brown, Phil Dawson) or need to show something this season to make addressing their second contract a top priority (Mohamed Massaquoi).

One player who might start to get antsy about his contract is cornerback Joe Haden, who has already changed agents once (replaced Malik Shareef with Drew Rosenhaus) and, according to a source with knowledge of his rookie contract, is missing out on base salary escalators in both 2013 and 2014, in part, because they're tied to team performance, not just his own playing-time and/or production.

 

[daveR]

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Is Cameron #2 on the chart?

 

[amnesiac]

he's a long shot, but Cameron is likely available on the waiver wire even in deep leagues. i think they'll keep Watson, but they never seemed to commit to Moore for some reason and Smith and Gradkowski are just depth guys.

 

[daveR]

Is Cameron #2 on the chart?

As far as I know, not yet. BTW, what you read about Watson is just a writer with a template to fill in.

 

[MAC_32]

Is Cameron #2 on the chart?

No, but if he carries over his performance from June camp he will. The staff likes Moore as a complimentary TE, but they see Cameron as potential to be the lead guy. Dyno owners must go get him now. I took a last week flier on him in one league and after freeing up a roster spot got him for the league minimum in a contract dyno league. Redrafters can watch for now though. If he is a viable starter this year it probably won't be until the 2nd half, but if he has a strong camp...

 

[Hoot&HoLLer]

Thoughts on all of the young skill players in Cleveland? Today they added young and raw prospect Josh Gordon.

 

[zadok]

Has any team ever stared 3 rookie skill position players?

 

[wadegarrett]

 

[MAC_32]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Mohamed Massaquoi, see you...on the bench!

 

[wadegarrett]

Already hearing it from people.

All I've heard and read since the April Draft is "the Browns have no WRs" or "they ignored their biggest need" blah, blah, blah.

Now it's going to be "they reached" or "the Browns gave up too much."

EVERYBODY #### OFF AND LET THEM PLAY A COUPLE YEARS BEFORE YOU WRITE THEM OFF!!!

 

[nxmehta]

Already hearing it from people.All I've heard and read since the April Draft is "the Browns have no WRs" or "they ignored their biggest need" blah, blah, blah.Now it's going to be "they reached" or "the Browns gave up too much." EVERYBODY #### OFF AND LET THEM PLAY A COUPLE YEARS BEFORE YOU WRITE THEM OFF!!!

In one offseason we've picked up a starting QB, RB, WR, RT. All picks in the top 2 rounds. What more do people want...At this point, the success of the team is on two people's shoulders: Pat Shurmur and Brandon Weeden.

 

[MAC_32]

Already hearing it from people.All I've heard and read since the April Draft is "the Browns have no WRs" or "they ignored their biggest need" blah, blah, blah.Now it's going to be "they reached" or "the Browns gave up too much." EVERYBODY #### OFF AND LET THEM PLAY A COUPLE YEARS BEFORE YOU WRITE THEM OFF!!!

In one offseason we've picked up a starting QB, RB, WR, RT. All picks in the top 2 rounds. What more do people want...At this point, the success of the team is on two people's shoulders: Pat Shurmur and Brandon Weeden.

Please don't remind me of that, I was happy with the Browns for once.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Mohamed Massaquoi, see you...on the bench!

Carlton Mitchell, see you at McDonalds.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Already hearing it from people.All I've heard and read since the April Draft is "the Browns have no WRs" or "they ignored their biggest need" blah, blah, blah.Now it's going to be "they reached" or "the Browns gave up too much." EVERYBODY #### OFF AND LET THEM PLAY A COUPLE YEARS BEFORE YOU WRITE THEM OFF!!!

Was hoping it could be a 3rd but doesn't sound like he would have made it back. Would have been a 1st rounder next year if he has any kind of decent senior season/combine. Getting him a year early and in the 2nd round? I'll take it.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

He's not the GM of the Browns either

 

[nxmehta]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

GTFO of this thread.

 

[Faust]

Josh Gordon addresses Cleveland Browns' WR hole

By Marc Sessler

Writer

The big knock on the Cleveland Browns coming out of April's draft was the team's failure to secure a game-changing wide receiver.

No guarantees they've found one, but Cleveland saw enough in Josh Gordon to use a second-round pick in Thursday's supplemental draft on the former Baylor and Utah wideout

There's a feeling around this newsroom that Cleveland pulled the trigger early. Gordon was pegged by most as a third-round (or lower) gamble. It raises questions, but if the Browns seem a little desperate, you haven't seen this roster.

Browns receivers were asleep at the wheel last season. Greg Little, a rookie, led all wideouts with 61 catches, but few of them led to points. Josh Cribbs was more dangerous as a Wildcat fire-starter than a pure receiver -- where he appears squeezed into the role -- and we're still waiting for Mohamed Massaquoi to scare a secondary. Don't hold your breath, young ones.

Cleveland's front office is under pressure to deliver an offense that -- opposite to last year's uneven circus -- isn't dead on arrival. Give them points for aggressively pursuing Brandon Weeden, Trent Richardson -- and now Gordon. Give them additional points if any of this works.

 

[Faust]

Browns jumped way too high to take Gordon

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

I didn't realize how much the loss of Baylor wideout Kendall Wright to Tennessee in this year's draft flummoxed the Cleveland Browns, but now I do. It was a setback from which they still haven't recovered.

The proof? Their choice Thursday of Baylor receiver Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft. It's not that choosing Gordon is a bad idea, and it's not that choosing a wide receiver is a bad idea. But choosing this wide receiver with a second-round pick is a bad idea. It's a panic move that makes no sense.

OK, OK, I understand the Browns need another pair of hands like Barnes needs Noble, but a second-round draft pick for Josh Gordon? Puh-leeze. These are the Cleveland Browns, people, and they're not only the fourth-best team in the AFC North; they could be one of the worst teams in the NFL, period.

That means they should be in line for a high choice in next year's draft, which means ... uh-huh, that second-round pick they just sacrified? It should be a high second-rounder. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the Browns finish with one of the worst three records in the league.

OK, so that's a doom-and-gloom scenario, but tell me they're better than Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in they're division ... because they're not. And tell me they beat Philadelphia or the Giants or Dallas or Denver and San Diego with the league's third most difficult schedule ... because they won't. I'm sorry, but I don't see much hope this season, and after what just happened, I don't know if I see much hope in the forseeable future.

As I said, I understand the Browns' position at wide receiver. They can't have enough. But the draft is all about getting value for your pick, and the Browns just flunked the exam. Josh Gordon is not second-round value, especially where Cleveland is liable to choose next April.

I don't know, but it sure looks as if not getting Wright made the Browns go wrong. They had a golden opportunity to inject life into a struggling offense with two first-round picks in this year's draft and made the wise choice with running back Trent Richardson at the fourth spot. But then they waited on Wright with the 22nd pick, and that was a mistake. The guy went to Tennessee at the 20th spot, which threw the Browns into such a funk they chose Brandon Weeden -- a quarterback who turns 29 this season -- two spots later.

The Browns didn't need another quarterback. They needed a playmaker like Wright, and if they had a conviction about him -- which, president Mike Holmgren admitted later, they did -- they should have acted on it. They should have maneuvered to take him in front of potential suitors like Tennessee.

But they didn't and suffered the consequences.

So they wait three months and take another Baylor receiver -- only one who's not as good and who didn't play last season. When the Browns got stiffed on Wright, they should have found another piece to plug into an offense that needs help everywhere -- maybe an offensive lineman like a David DeCastro or Riley Reiff or Kevin Zeitler. But, instead, they opted for a quarterback to replace Colt McCoy, whom they took in the third round two years ago.

I don't care what you think of McCoy, but no quarterback in Cleveland stands a chance without a supporting cast that wasn't there last season. I don't know how good McCoy is or isn't because he didn't have guys around him to make him better. He deserved a chance that he won't get. Weeden will and good luck.

Choosing Richardson to improve an awful rushing attack was a start, but the Browns are desperate for playmakers -- so desperate that they wasted what is sure to be a high draft pick on a receiver who, when he did play two years ago, had his moments but wasn't what I'd call extraordinary.

Which is another way of saying he wasn't Kendall Wright one season later.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. This is how fourth-place clubs stay in fourth place. Which is another way of saying, ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Browns.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

We'll see how long it takes Gordon to be game ready; hopefully sooner than later.

I'm not even going to list the starting WRs of 2 seasons ago, because I don't want anyone throwing up in their mouth, but just think about that crap compared to present day. Little, Gordon, Benjamin, and Cribbs can be used appropriately when needed. Add to that, it appears that Cameron Jordan is developing nicely.

Richardson

Little

Gordon

Benjamin

Jordan

Quite a nice upgrade of young talent at the offensive skill positions in a matter of 2 seasons. The line is young and developing. Fingers crossed that Weeden can be an NFL QB.

I love this front office. As I've said a million times now, Heckert turned the 2nd oldest roster into the 2nd youngest roster in 1 season. It's going to take some time, but man, there's some seriously young talent on the offensive line, offensive skill positions, defensive secondary, and defensive line. Hopefully they can shore up the LBs next year and start building on other areas. I don't expect the playoffs this year, but I think the Cleveland Browns are a team that no one will want to play after the first month of the season.

:Spikes football and dances:

 

[Ultimate Browns Fan]

Browns jumped way too high to take Gordon

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

I didn't realize how much the loss of Baylor wideout Kendall Wright to Tennessee in this year's draft flummoxed the Cleveland Browns, but now I do. It was a setback from which they still haven't recovered.

The proof? Their choice Thursday of Baylor receiver Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft. It's not that choosing Gordon is a bad idea, and it's not that choosing a wide receiver is a bad idea. But choosing this wide receiver with a second-round pick is a bad idea. It's a panic move that makes no sense.

OK, OK, I understand the Browns need another pair of hands like Barnes needs Noble, but a second-round draft pick for Josh Gordon? Puh-leeze. These are the Cleveland Browns, people, and they're not only the fourth-best team in the AFC North; they could be one of the worst teams in the NFL, period.

That means they should be in line for a high choice in next year's draft, which means ... uh-huh, that second-round pick they just sacrified? It should be a high second-rounder. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the Browns finish with one of the worst three records in the league.

OK, so that's a doom-and-gloom scenario, but tell me they're better than Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in they're division ... because they're not. And tell me they beat Philadelphia or the Giants or Dallas or Denver and San Diego with the league's third most difficult schedule ... because they won't. I'm sorry, but I don't see much hope this season, and after what just happened, I don't know if I see much hope in the forseeable future.

As I said, I understand the Browns' position at wide receiver. They can't have enough. But the draft is all about getting value for your pick, and the Browns just flunked the exam. Josh Gordon is not second-round value, especially where Cleveland is liable to choose next April.

I don't know, but it sure looks as if not getting Wright made the Browns go wrong. They had a golden opportunity to inject life into a struggling offense with two first-round picks in this year's draft and made the wise choice with running back Trent Richardson at the fourth spot. But then they waited on Wright with the 22nd pick, and that was a mistake. The guy went to Tennessee at the 20th spot, which threw the Browns into such a funk they chose Brandon Weeden -- a quarterback who turns 29 this season -- two spots later.

The Browns didn't need another quarterback. They needed a playmaker like Wright, and if they had a conviction about him -- which, president Mike Holmgren admitted later, they did -- they should have acted on it. They should have maneuvered to take him in front of potential suitors like Tennessee.

But they didn't and suffered the consequences.

So they wait three months and take another Baylor receiver -- only one who's not as good and who didn't play last season. When the Browns got stiffed on Wright, they should have found another piece to plug into an offense that needs help everywhere -- maybe an offensive lineman like a David DeCastro or Riley Reiff or Kevin Zeitler. But, instead, they opted for a quarterback to replace Colt McCoy, whom they took in the third round two years ago.

I don't care what you think of McCoy, but no quarterback in Cleveland stands a chance without a supporting cast that wasn't there last season. I don't know how good McCoy is or isn't because he didn't have guys around him to make him better. He deserved a chance that he won't get. Weeden will and good luck.

Choosing Richardson to improve an awful rushing attack was a start, but the Browns are desperate for playmakers -- so desperate that they wasted what is sure to be a high draft pick on a receiver who, when he did play two years ago, had his moments but wasn't what I'd call extraordinary.

Which is another way of saying he wasn't Kendall Wright one season later.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. This is how fourth-place clubs stay in fourth place. Which is another way of saying, ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Browns.

"The Browns didn't need another quarterback?" After I read this statement, this poster LOST ALL CREDIBILITY with regard to any discussion of Browns front office draft strategy.

 

[amnesiac]

1. i like the nickname: Josh "Flash" Gordon

2. i can't find any highlight videos on this kid. anyone have any links? all i can find are a couple long touchdown videos.

3. i think the stories of Little and Gordon will serve as a cautionary tale for college wide recievers that if they break the rules and are suspended for a year, there's a good chance the Browns will draft you.

 

[jurb26]

Browns jumped way too high to take Gordon

By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist

I didn't realize how much the loss of Baylor wideout Kendall Wright to Tennessee in this year's draft flummoxed the Cleveland Browns, but now I do. It was a setback from which they still haven't recovered.

The proof? Their choice Thursday of Baylor receiver Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft. It's not that choosing Gordon is a bad idea, and it's not that choosing a wide receiver is a bad idea. But choosing this wide receiver with a second-round pick is a bad idea. It's a panic move that makes no sense.

OK, OK, I understand the Browns need another pair of hands like Barnes needs Noble, but a second-round draft pick for Josh Gordon? Puh-leeze. These are the Cleveland Browns, people, and they're not only the fourth-best team in the AFC North; they could be one of the worst teams in the NFL, period.

That means they should be in line for a high choice in next year's draft, which means ... uh-huh, that second-round pick they just sacrified? It should be a high second-rounder. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if the Browns finish with one of the worst three records in the league.

OK, so that's a doom-and-gloom scenario, but tell me they're better than Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in they're division ... because they're not. And tell me they beat Philadelphia or the Giants or Dallas or Denver and San Diego with the league's third most difficult schedule ... because they won't. I'm sorry, but I don't see much hope this season, and after what just happened, I don't know if I see much hope in the forseeable future.

As I said, I understand the Browns' position at wide receiver. They can't have enough. But the draft is all about getting value for your pick, and the Browns just flunked the exam. Josh Gordon is not second-round value, especially where Cleveland is liable to choose next April.

I don't know, but it sure looks as if not getting Wright made the Browns go wrong. They had a golden opportunity to inject life into a struggling offense with two first-round picks in this year's draft and made the wise choice with running back Trent Richardson at the fourth spot. But then they waited on Wright with the 22nd pick, and that was a mistake. The guy went to Tennessee at the 20th spot, which threw the Browns into such a funk they chose Brandon Weeden -- a quarterback who turns 29 this season -- two spots later.

The Browns didn't need another quarterback. They needed a playmaker like Wright, and if they had a conviction about him -- which, president Mike Holmgren admitted later, they did -- they should have acted on it. They should have maneuvered to take him in front of potential suitors like Tennessee.

But they didn't and suffered the consequences.

So they wait three months and take another Baylor receiver -- only one who's not as good and who didn't play last season. When the Browns got stiffed on Wright, they should have found another piece to plug into an offense that needs help everywhere -- maybe an offensive lineman like a David DeCastro or Riley Reiff or Kevin Zeitler. But, instead, they opted for a quarterback to replace Colt McCoy, whom they took in the third round two years ago.

I don't care what you think of McCoy, but no quarterback in Cleveland stands a chance without a supporting cast that wasn't there last season. I don't know how good McCoy is or isn't because he didn't have guys around him to make him better. He deserved a chance that he won't get. Weeden will and good luck.

Choosing Richardson to improve an awful rushing attack was a start, but the Browns are desperate for playmakers -- so desperate that they wasted what is sure to be a high draft pick on a receiver who, when he did play two years ago, had his moments but wasn't what I'd call extraordinary.

Which is another way of saying he wasn't Kendall Wright one season later.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. This is how fourth-place clubs stay in fourth place. Which is another way of saying, ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Browns.

"The Browns didn't need another quarterback?" After I read this statement, this poster LOST ALL CREDIBILITY with regard to any discussion of Browns front office draft strategy.

That's really freaking funny. The Brown's don't need another QB? Is that guy living in a cave?

Perhaps it was a play on words. Meaning they don't need another QB like the ones they currently had on their roster?

 

[Bobcat10]

I'm out on the west coast...any word if Buff would have snagged him with a 3rd? I heard no other team put in a 2nd like we did, so only Buff could have won over us in the 3rd, correct?

Judge is one of the only people I've heard/read say Wright is better than Gordon. I think they are diff type WRs, but I admit I don't know a lot about the comparisons.

 

[Fensalk]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

 

[lbouchard]

I'm out on the west coast...any word if Buff would have snagged him with a 3rd? I heard no other team put in a 2nd like we did, so only Buff could have won over us in the 3rd, correct?Judge is one of the only people I've heard/read say Wright is better than Gordon. I think they are diff type WRs, but I admit I don't know a lot about the comparisons.

I believe word is Buff was going to pick him up in the 3rd

 

[Bobcat10]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

I don't look at it that way at all. They added a player they consider a 1st or 2nd round talent for a future 2nd. A similar comparison, although under somewhat different circumstance, is the Quinn selection (different regime obviously). They used their 2nd round pick that year to make their next 1st round selection a year early. It didn't work out, but getting the player in house a year early is the motive. We didn't have to give up an additional pick here so it seems to make even more sense. Whether their projection is correct is the question and we'll certainly have that answer over the next few seasons.

 

[wadegarrett]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

I don't look at it that way at all. They added a player they consider a 1st or 2nd round talent for a future 2nd. A similar comparison, although under somewhat different circumstance, is the Quinn selection (different regime obviously). They used their 2nd round pick that year to make their next 1st round selection a year early. It didn't work out, but getting the player in house a year early is the motive. We didn't have to give up an additional pick here so it seems to make even more sense. Whether their projection is correct is the question and we'll certainly have that answer over the next few seasons.

Concur.

 

[daveR]

The hard part now is being patient while all these rookies go through their rookie phase. I'm sure the fans that are excited by this move are expecting production on the field in 2012.

 

[gandalas]

"The Browns didn't need another quarterback?" After I read this statement, this poster LOST ALL CREDIBILITY with regard to any discussion of Browns front office draft strategy.

but tell me they're better than Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in they're division ... because they're not.

That was the line that stopped me. If you are writing for a large site like CBS, then you may want to have correct spelling.

 

[daveR]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

FAIL!They added this young talent through the draft. They didn't choose to sign a FA like Randy Moss, which would have been a "win now" move.

 

[MAC_32]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

FAIL!They added this young talent through the draft. They didn't choose to sign a FA like Randy Moss, which would have been a "win now" move.

I think it's somewhere in between. They're feeling the pressure from Lerner, but are choosing to do things their way through the draft as their plan has been all along. If this year sucks again then I'd bet Shurmur goes, but unfortunately I think Chilly or **** are then given the job. Hope not, but it sure seems set up that way. If 2013 goes awry then Holmgren falls on the sword and takes Weeden down with him. Then it's all on Heckert. I like what he's doing through the draft but his distaste for all things free agent has to give at some point. I understand you don't want to build your team, through free agency, but in this day you have to be more active plucking up other talent than we have been. The lack of urgency is what's having them feel the pressure from above.In the end, I hope you're all right about Weeden and I'm dead wrong so we don't have to deal with the above and the inevitable ship being blown up, again.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

He's not the GM of the Browns either

I know, they actually gave him a more powerful position then the GM job he lobbied for in Seattle. Glad Im not a Browns fan. He is a great coach but he fails everywhere else.

 

[Faust]

Josh Gordon vows not to let Cleveland Browns down

By Brian McIntyre

Around the League writer

The Cleveland Browns made a bold move to upgrade their wide receiver corps by expending a 2013 second-round pick on Baylor and Utah product Josh Gordon in Thursday's supplemental draft.

Gordon promised that the Browns will not regret that decision, reported Mary Kay Cabot of The Plain Dealer.

"Despite everything I've been through, despite being a kid with a spotty background, the Cleveland Browns stuck their neck out and risked taking me and put their faith and belief in me, and I won't let them down," Gordon said on Thursday night. "I'm grateful, and I know I can't go back to being the person I used to be."

From a talent standpoint, adding Gordon makes sense. The Cleveland Browns have had some disappointments at the receiver position the last few seasons -- Brian Robiskie and, to some extent, Mohamed Massaquoi -- which put them in the market for a player to pair opposite Greg Little. The 6-foot-3, 224-pound Gordon will give the team two big, physical receivers. However, because Gordon missed the 2011 college season after transferring from Baylor to Utah, and because he also missed the Browns' offseason program, he might not contribute much in 2012.

Thursday's move was not without risk. The Browns were the only AFC North team not to make the playoffs in 2011, and they likely won't be much better this season. That means the second-round pick the Browns gave up Thursday would likely have been slotted at a relatively high spot in 2013. It's possible they'll end up watching another team pick a talented prospect at that spot next April.

For what it's worth, the Houston Texans burned a 2004 second-round pick -- acquired from the Oakland Raiders -- to select running back Tony Hollings in the 2003 supplemental draft. That pick ended up being No. 33 overall. Hollings, meanwhile, produced 149 yards rushing in 23 career games. Two players the Texans would have had a chance to draft in 2004 were Karlos Dansby and Chris Snee, who have combined to play in 242 regular-season games, three Super Bowls and three Pro Bowls (all by Snee).

Do you think the Texans wish they had one of those guys over the last nine seasons?

 

[daveR]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

He's not the GM of the Browns either

I know, they actually gave him a more powerful position then the GM job he lobbied for in Seattle. Glad Im not a Browns fan. He is a great coach but he fails everywhere else.

"than"

 

[Bobcat10]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

He's not the GM of the Browns either

I know, they actually gave him a more powerful position then the GM job he lobbied for in Seattle. Glad Im not a Browns fan. He is a great coach but he fails everywhere else.

I'm glad your not as well.

 

[Fensalk]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

I don't look at it that way at all. They added a player they consider a 1st or 2nd round talent for a future 2nd. A similar comparison, although under somewhat different circumstance, is the Quinn selection (different regime obviously). They used their 2nd round pick that year to make their next 1st round selection a year early. It didn't work out, but getting the player in house a year early is the motive. We didn't have to give up an additional pick here so it seems to make even more sense. Whether their projection is correct is the question and we'll certainly have that answer over the next few seasons.

Actually you support my point. Savage picked Quinn because he knew he and Crennell were on the hot seat. Future drafts didnt matter. They had come into town in 2005 and gone 6-10 and 4-12. It was year 3 and it was time to win. So they traded future picks for Brady late in round 1. the trade was a bust but Derek Anderson came outta nowhere for a year and they go 10-6 in 2007. If not for Derek, i imagine the odds were strong that Lerner cleans house.This move for Gordon is similar. Its a strong hint that there is pressure to win now several years into Holmgrens tenure.

 

[Fensalk]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

 

[amnesiac]

i doubt they win more than 5-6 games, but how they finish will likely determine their fates.

unless they win fewer than 4 games, i believe Holmgren and Heckert will still be here next year.

 

[daveR]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

Things are going remarkably well under Holmgren. They took a talent-less, OLD team and turned nearly the entire roster over, filling it with young, good players in three drafts. Or, did you think what we had was going to win championships?

 

[Fensalk]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

Things are going remarkably well under Holmgren. They took a talent-less, OLD team and turned nearly the entire roster over, filling it with young, good players in three drafts. Or, did you think what we had was going to win championships?

The NFL is brutal. Front offices dont often get 4 years to prove they can win. Thats just the way it is. If they dont start winning this year, Lerner will probably make some changes. Maybe clean house. Maybe fire the head coach. maybe holmgren gets forced into retirement.

 

[wadegarrett]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

Things are going remarkably well under Holmgren. They took a talent-less, OLD team and turned nearly the entire roster over, filling it with young, good players in three drafts. Or, did you think what we had was going to win championships?

The NFL is brutal. Front offices dont often get 4 years to prove they can win. Thats just the way it is. If they dont start winning this year, Lerner will probably make some changes. Maybe clean house. Maybe fire the head coach. maybe holmgren gets forced into retirement.

Think Heckert has done a fantastic job putting this roster together. It's full of young talented players that can develop together. Cleaning house would be the worst thing Lerner could do next off season.

 

[nxmehta]

Thank god Holmgren isn't the GM of the Seahawks.....lol.

He's not the GM of the Browns either

I know, they actually gave him a more powerful position then the GM job he lobbied for in Seattle. Glad Im not a Browns fan. He is a great coach but he fails everywhere else.

Seriously, what are you doing in this thread??? Tom Heckert uses a 2nd round pick on a WR in the supplemental draft and you're in here trolling Mike Holmgren, talking about how happy you are that he's not the President in Seattle? WTF ManIf you're going to offer some insight that would be one thing. But if you want to troll the Browns GO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE

 

[nxmehta]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

Things are going remarkably well under Holmgren. They took a talent-less, OLD team and turned nearly the entire roster over, filling it with young, good players in three drafts. Or, did you think what we had was going to win championships?

I really don't think you can say that until we start winning some games. Yes, we have a younger, more talented roster. If we don't win more games it doesn't really matter. Are you going to say things are still going remarkably well if we go 5-11 this season?

 

[daveR]

You must realise things are not going well under Holmgren. The club went 5-11 and 4-12 in his first two years. They arent favored to win a single game this year. There is little faith in the head coach. There is pressure here. They probably need 7 wins minimum to show progress, and that is not going to happen.

Things are going remarkably well under Holmgren. They took a talent-less, OLD team and turned nearly the entire roster over, filling it with young, good players in three drafts. Or, did you think what we had was going to win championships?

The NFL is brutal. Front offices dont often get 4 years to prove they can win. Thats just the way it is. If they dont start winning this year, Lerner will probably make some changes. Maybe clean house. Maybe fire the head coach. maybe holmgren gets forced into retirement.

So, you don't agree with rebuilding the team. How would you have won with the team you had?

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Is there a more miserable person on the board than Fensalk? Seriously. Dude is angry and/or whiny 24/7. What a sad way to go through life.

 

[Bobcat10]

I think this move hints that some people in the front office / coaching ranks for the Browns feel they are on the hot seat. They're not being patient and adding pieces later. They are not worried about the future draft - its time to win now.

I don't look at it that way at all. They added a player they consider a 1st or 2nd round talent for a future 2nd. A similar comparison, although under somewhat different circumstance, is the Quinn selection (different regime obviously). They used their 2nd round pick that year to make their next 1st round selection a year early. It didn't work out, but getting the player in house a year early is the motive. We didn't have to give up an additional pick here so it seems to make even more sense. Whether their projection is correct is the question and we'll certainly have that answer over the next few seasons.

Actually you support my point. Savage picked Quinn because he knew he and Crennell were on the hot seat. Future drafts didnt matter. They had come into town in 2005 and gone 6-10 and 4-12. It was year 3 and it was time to win. So they traded future picks for Brady late in round 1. the trade was a bust but Derek Anderson came outta nowhere for a year and they go 10-6 in 2007. If not for Derek, i imagine the odds were strong that Lerner cleans house.This move for Gordon is similar. Its a strong hint that there is pressure to win now several years into Holmgrens tenure.

Actually, I don't support your point at all. There's rarely no pressure in the Nfl. Pressure didn't drive the move, improving the team at what they think is the right price, or even a bargain, did.

 

[Fensalk]

I get the feeling that there is way too much optimism in the Browns thread this year. Usually the way it plays out is, once posters here realize the season is lost, they will take their frustrations out on me and attack me personally. Prove me wrong.

 

[Fensalk]

Is there a more miserable person on the board than Fensalk? Seriously. Dude is angry and/or whiny 24/7. What a sad way to go through life.

Is it being miserable, angry, or whiny to concur with just about every experts' views on the 2012 Browns? Vegas doesn't favor the Browns to win a game all year. I'm being a realist, nothing more. This season will, in all likelihood, be brutal. I'm sorry this upsets you so much. Don't blame me. I'm just a poster. Blame the people running the team.