MAC_32
Footballguy
Younger doesn't necessarily mean better.I'm glad to see everyone agrees that we now have better talent on the field.
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Cleveland Browns (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
I agree with this. I think Heckert will go. I think he has done pretty well in the draft, even with some of the later guys like Pinkston, Hagg, Winn, etc. He does reach quite often if he really likes a guy which I'm not a huge fan of. But to almost completely ignore free agency is irresponsible. And to stick with guys just because you drafted them higher (Hardesty? Marecic? Come on) is just being stubborn and prideful. Shurmur is poo and may not survive the season. Holmgren should go with him for bringing him in. Terrible good ol' boy hire.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I'm with you guys...but Hardesty hasn't played a down this year in the regular season. I'm not sure what you think they are sticking with besides holding extra depth behind TRich. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Could the roster spot be used better? Maybe, maybe not. But it's pretty clear if a move needs to be made then Hardesty is one of the players closest to the door.Forgot about this, maddening.
daveR
Footballguy
So, you guys have talked to them and they told you they are sticking with guys because they drafted them? Do you think there might be more reasons involved maybe? Maybe???Here's the line of "logic" detailed above...
A couple guys on the team aren't performing to the standards I have set. They are still on the team. I have decided thay are still on the team only because the GM is too prideful to cut them. Therefore he is stubborn. Therefore he is hurting the team. Because he is hurting the team, he and his boss should be fired.
Ultimately, I want to resart the rebuilding process all over again because a couple guys on the team aren't performing to my standards.
beer 302
Footballguy
Alright Dave, you're going off the rails now bud. GLSo, you guys have talked to them and they told you they are sticking with guys because they drafted them? Do you think there might be more reasons involved maybe? Maybe???Here's the line of "logic" detailed above...
A couple guys on the team aren't performing to the standards I have set. They are still on the team. I have decided thay are still on the team only because the GM is too prideful to cut them. Therefore he is stubborn. Therefore he is hurting the team. Because he is hurting the team, he and his boss should be fired.
Ultimately, I want to resart the rebuilding process all over again because a couple guys on the team aren't performing to my standards.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm happy Ogbonnaya has been getting the non-Richardson snaps, but since Hardesty has been active and Jackson a healthy scratch despite neither helping on special teams these guys still see Hardesty ahead. I don't know if Jackson helps or not, I think he could if Richardson went down, but I know Hardesty won't. This is his last year in the league, he'll be cut this offseason, get in camp somewhere next year, not make the team and end up in Canada.I'm with you guys...but Hardesty hasn't played a down this year in the regular season. I'm not sure what you think they are sticking with besides holding extra depth behind TRich. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Could the roster spot be used better? Maybe, maybe not. But it's pretty clear if a move needs to be made then Hardesty is one of the players closest to the door.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
I just.. wow.. I don't even know where to start with this.So, you guys have talked to them and they told you they are sticking with guys because they drafted them? Do you think there might be more reasons involved maybe? Maybe???Here's the line of "logic" detailed above...
A couple guys on the team aren't performing to the standards I have set. They are still on the team. I have decided thay are still on the team only because the GM is too prideful to cut them. Therefore he is stubborn. Therefore he is hurting the team. Because he is hurting the team, he and his boss should be fired.
Ultimately, I want to resart the rebuilding process all over again because a couple guys on the team aren't performing to my standards.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Alright Dave, you're going off the rails now bud. GLSo, you guys have talked to them and they told you they are sticking with guys because they drafted them? Do you think there might be more reasons involved maybe? Maybe???Here's the line of "logic" detailed above...
A couple guys on the team aren't performing to the standards I have set. They are still on the team. I have decided thay are still on the team only because the GM is too prideful to cut them. Therefore he is stubborn. Therefore he is hurting the team. Because he is hurting the team, he and his boss should be fired.
Ultimately, I want to resart the rebuilding process all over again because a couple guys on the team aren't performing to my standards.
If you were brought in by Heckert you get more rope to hang yourself and the job is yours until you have proven you cannot do it, no competition, just here's your job. While I think they've made some puzzling picks I love the way Seattle has been running their team since Schneider and Carroll have taken over. Preach competition everywhere and don't be afraid to bring in cost effective risks. If they don't pan out - buh bye. If they do - great! Young players need competition, motivation, direction, to be pushed - I think that's happening elsewhere - I don't think it's been happening here.
daveR
Footballguy
Your perception. At any rate, I'm gonna give this a rest. Late.Alright Dave, you're going off the rails now bud. GLSo, you guys have talked to them and they told you they are sticking with guys because they drafted them? Do you think there might be more reasons involved maybe? Maybe???Here's the line of "logic" detailed above...
A couple guys on the team aren't performing to the standards I have set. They are still on the team. I have decided thay are still on the team only because the GM is too prideful to cut them. Therefore he is stubborn. Therefore he is hurting the team. Because he is hurting the team, he and his boss should be fired.
Ultimately, I want to resart the rebuilding process all over again because a couple guys on the team aren't performing to my standards.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Baltimore 87
Cleveland 3
Cleveland 3
amnesiac
beer is good
35 Ravens9 Brownsalso on the strength of Dawson's leg.'wadegarrett said:Baltimore 87Cleveland 3My prediction, on the strength of Phil Dawson's mighty legBrowns 30Ravens 28Yes, I am calling for 10 FG's
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daveR
Footballguy
WOOT!'wadegarrett said:Baltimore 87Cleveland 3
beer 302
Footballguy
See? We're all on the same pageWOOT!'wadegarrett said:Baltimore 87
Cleveland 3
Browns 30
Ravens 28
Yes, I am calling for 10 FG's
GAMEDAY BABY!!!!!!GO BROWNS
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
THEYRE STILL ####TY
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
MAC_32
Footballguy
I got tired of losing years ago. #### draft picks, I want to win. Problem is I have zero faith in this team winning under this regime. So, yeah, rock bottom is probably the way to go. Just can't root to lose.
beer 302
Footballguy
I don't understand the play calling. I get they were behind but not far enough to go to the catch-up offense with the way Trent was running. The dude is a beast, you moved up in the draft to get him, run him until his legs fall off! Early on, the screen they threw to him where he got a block, up-ended the defender, then turned around and got the pass for a 10 yard gain
BEAST
Well done Pat, at least he showed some emotion. Can't wait to hear the presser this week.This sums up the game pretty wellWas that the 2nd penalty called on Shurmur himself this season? Is that some kind of record or something?
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daveR
Footballguy
The Browns ran 19 first down plays through three quarters. One was a run by OB, nine went to TRich, nine were passes to someone else. Pretty balanced!'beer 302 said:I don't understand the play calling. I get they were behind but not far enough to go to the catch-up offense with the way Trent was running. The dude is a beast, you moved up in the draft to get him, run him until his legs fall off! Early on, the screen they threw to him where he got a block, up-ended the defender, then turned around and got the pass for a 10 yard gain'MAC_32 said:Well done Pat, at least he showed some emotion. Can't wait to hear the presser this week.This sums up the game pretty well'nxmehta said:Was that the 2nd penalty called on Shurmur himself this season? Is that some kind of record or something?
beer 302
Footballguy
Is it sad that I'm encouraged they had 19 first downs?
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
minus opening kick and 4 post-score kicks
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes, while we were always hanging around it never felt like we were going to win. I mean, just look at that last play, didn't even give our guys a chance to catch the ball. An offense full of kids that don't know how to win led by a guy in over his head, just unreasonable expectations coming into the season from the top. This team is not built to win now yet that's how they're being evaluated.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Gordon isn't ready either. Last night is what you get when your WR/TE corps is made up of over-the-hill vets (Watson), mediocre depth (Massaquoi, Cribbs, Alex Smith), and raw athletes still learning their positions (Benjamin, Little, Gordon, Cameron). It's not the first game they'll blow (although it's the first one this year) and other youthful units will be the issues other weeks.Most people in Cleveland saw this specific issue though, but the bull-headed and narrow-minded front office didn't. Just repeating the mistakes made with Evan Moore (didn't fit what they wanted to do, so why keep him around?) and Robiskie (he just sucks and it took these guys 2 years to see what we already knew).#### this team.
dancingbones
Footballguy
Tough to lose, but it is encouraging that this team is really a few plays away from winning on any given week.
We're young & having a bit of baptism by fire. I think we'll pull out a few shockers before the season is over once it all starts to click.
I liked what I saw from Benjamin, Winn, Skrine, and Richardson of course.
I'm not ready to throw all these guys out yet. We've tried that several times and it hasn't worked any better than what is happening now.
And yes, hurry back Haden!
We're young & having a bit of baptism by fire. I think we'll pull out a few shockers before the season is over once it all starts to click.
I liked what I saw from Benjamin, Winn, Skrine, and Richardson of course.
I'm not ready to throw all these guys out yet. We've tried that several times and it hasn't worked any better than what is happening now.
And yes, hurry back Haden!
jurb26
Footballguy
I agree and I don't think Clev is nearly as bad as many seem to think. They have essentially been in every game they've played this year. They've just lost them all. Seeing that they have rookies starting at every skill position on offense, including and most importantly QB and they have been w/o their best defensive player for all but 1 game that isn't all bad. I really think this team could be only a few critical peices away from turning the corner. The most glaring of which is at WR IMO. The D is pretty solid and the Oline is as well. There is just an overall lack of experience and playmakers.I don't know that the current staff are the ones to be able to get it done, but they could be only a few key players away.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I've been disappointed by the OL play, expected that to be a strength and it hasn't. JT took a step back last year and he looks like he's taken another one this year. I expect mistakes from the rook at RT, but not from JT and there seems to be an equal amount from both each game. The guard play hasn't improved either, thought both made progress late last year but they've flat lined. The pocket collapses too quickly and with a QB that frequently holds onto the ball too long and makes the throw a half second late that's a big issue. Thankfully we have a QB that runs well through trash though.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Are there any veteran FA WRs who could help mentor the young guys? Somebody like Plaxico Burress or anybody else who could actually catch the ball and show the young guys the ropes to being a actual real NFL caliber WR. Especially with Cribbs and MoMass having head injuries.
Anybody?
Anybody?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Guys like Plax, Ocho, TO, etc. are not mentors. They think they're starters and have never done the little things to help others, they'd only stunt their development. The time to bring in a vet was March and this regime ignored all of them. Hopefully the new one doesn't. These guys need a Joe Jurevicius, our WR play has been putrid and consistently inconsistent ever since he went down.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
This is the bitter sweet fact we need to start concentrating on. One thing our QBs have not had over the years is stability. I'm actually more on the pleasantly surprised side when it comes to Weeden rather than the I told you so side. I think he can develop into a nice QB once the game slows down for him. The Oline and WRs are not helping him much though...and another regime change isn't ideal, but is unfortunately necessary.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I agree. Weeden looks like he will develop into a good QB, but needs a couple of WRs in the worst way. Plax might not have been the best example to use, but there has to be a WR available who could help this team.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Here's your list for next year, currently anyway - cuts will happen toohttp://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=WR&y=2013
beer 302
Footballguy
Hey Debbie Downer, quit raining on my ####### parade here.
Gordon is worse, still lost in space.I like what I see (in potential) from Weeden. He can put the ball on spot but then he pulls the rookie thing and makes you wonder wtf was he thinking? Being a rookie I'm ok with that, he's going to make mistakes. Dude got smacked around a little and popped back up, ran around in the pocket a little bit and made some throws. If the O-Line gets back to where they actually give him some time I think he'll be ok. They need to balance the game plan to get Richardson involved, that will also help advance Weeden's ability.The WR's are bad. Benjamin and maybe Cribbs are about the only thing I've seen that resemble WR's and they are, at best #2 or #3's on any other team. Little & Morgan have the physical talents but two WR's that share the dubious honor of not having played the year before they were drafted is not what you want in your starting lineup as your go-to guys.The "system" needs to be re-vamped to the talent you have. Square pegs in round holes and, here is the optimist, they've been in ever game so far. I want wins too but it's encouraging to at least see most of these guys playing their asses off out there. Dawson is nails and that D is over performing something fierce right now without their best player. Imagine the last two games if that idiot Haden had been on the field.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I don't want to wait until the off season. They need a veteran presence now.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Too bad, the current free agent list is ugly on top of ugly, it's why they're unemployed as of week 4. Now had the idiots in Berea realized this in March we may be in a better place right now, but, here we are.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I understand I'm not being realistic. It just seems like the situation is dire enough that some of those ugly on top of ugly guys would actually be able to teach the young guys on the Browns roster and catch a football.
MAC_32
Footballguy
We have a coaching staff littered with former coaches, should be a non-issue, since it is I'm not sure how a vet WR would make a difference - at least one that's currently available.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Is it me or have we not see this yet? <_<Was out at camp this morning. We'll be seeing this Weeden to Gordon deep sideline route for a long time. Did it twice today and Gordon made great catches both times. Love Weeden's arm.
beer 302
Footballguy
Hooley was saying that same thing today. Run the fade to Gordon once in a while, if he drops it or it's not there what do you lose? Ain't nobody else catching anything.Is it me or have we not see this yet? <_<Was out at camp this morning. We'll be seeing this Weeden to Gordon deep sideline route for a long time. Did it twice today and Gordon made great catches both times. Love Weeden's arm.
MAC_32
Footballguy
And then Grossi said they rarely practice it, despite having success with it in camp.Hooley was saying that same thing today. Run the fade to Gordon once in a while, if he drops it or it's not there what do you lose? Ain't nobody else catching anything.Is it me or have we not see this yet? <_<Was out at camp this morning. We'll be seeing this Weeden to Gordon deep sideline route for a long time. Did it twice today and Gordon made great catches both times. Love Weeden's arm.
beer 302
Footballguy
Yes but let's not question the coaching staff, they have a system.And then Grossi said they rarely practice it, despite having success with it in camp.Hooley was saying that same thing today. Run the fade to Gordon once in a while, if he drops it or it's not there what do you lose? Ain't nobody else catching anything.Is it me or have we not see this yet? <_<Was out at camp this morning. We'll be seeing this Weeden to Gordon deep sideline route for a long time. Did it twice today and Gordon made great catches both times. Love Weeden's arm.
