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Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)

MAC_32 said:
I'd rather retain the draft capital and target Winovich or Ferguson. 
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i get the heart concers, but sweat is an elite talent, that we will have no shot at for several years (as we'll likely be picking back end of draft from now on)

so, trade your first next year (a late first) + 2nd rounder this year and get sweat if he freefalls.

 
Soulfly3 said:
i get the heart concers, but sweat is an elite talent, that we will have no shot at for several years (as we'll likely be picking back end of draft from now on)

so, trade your first next year (a late first) + 2nd rounder this year and get sweat if he freefalls.
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It's paramount that team's with a young core due to be paid soon retain their draft picks.  Players like Sweat and Simmons may be great and trading future priority draft capital for them would still be the wrong move.  If it costs 49, 80, and one of those extra 5's?  Given the makeup of this class I don't think it's ideal, but I get it.  Future top 100 picks are a deal breaker though.

I think the sweet spot of this draft for rotational DL's and safeties are sometime in the middle of day two.  Both of which are positions this team needs to address.  So target two of them in that range and call it a day.

 
Would it really be a great move to give up a lot for an edge rusher when we already have two really good ones?  Bang might not be worth the buck, at least not for 2-3 years.  

Heck, if you told me right now we could take pick 49 and another pick in the 4th or whatever and get a future 1st, I do it.  

We will need those picks in a year or so.  

If I really thought there was a player we could move up for that gave us a huge impact now then sure.  Not sure I see that though.  

 
Getting sweat in the 1st, if he drops, means a 5th year option. 

Pretty important come around that time, imo.

Anyways, we'll see. My mouth is just watering at the prospect that he may drop to a point that we could nab him

 
  • Rumor of Damarius Randall extension talks not going well and that he removed all Browns references from social media.  
  • Rumor of Joe Schobert being shopped seems dated. (Kirksey has been mentioned and that seems more-likely IMHO)
  • IF we move up then speculation is up to one of the Raiders late 1st round spots. 
  • Duke asking for trade.
  Raiders likely partner if Browns trade up in draft  

... “If I deem it will help the Cleveland Browns, surely I will (trade up). But the compensation on the back end can’t be outrageous,” Dorsey said. “It has to work on both sides.”

Dorsey can offer more than draft picks as barter. He can also trade running back Duke Johnson, linebacker Joe Schobert or linebacker Christian Kirksey.

The Oakland Raiders are a potential trade partner if Dorsey does want to move into the first round. The Raiders own picks 4, 24 and 27. Dorsey would lay the groundwork for a swap but wouldn’t do anything until Oakland is on the clock at 24.
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Doesn't sound  like Dorsey would part with next year's 1st and nothing would take place unless Dorsey's target was available which means things 'could' get interesting late in the draft when Oakland is on the clock if Dorsey's guy is still on the board.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Getting sweat in the 1st, if he drops, means a 5th year option. 

Pretty important come around that time, imo.
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Next year's #1 also comes with a 5th year option.

Cost control is about to become very important to this team getting better.  Without draft ammunition the roster is what it is going from one year to the next.  If anything it'd actually get worse as players leave.

 
MAC_32 said:
Next year's #1 also comes with a 5th year option.

Cost control is about to become very important to this team getting better.  Without draft ammunition the roster is what it is going from one year to the next.  If anything it'd actually get worse as players leave.
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Right.  And how much better would sweat make us the next couple years as opposed to the other player we take with the picks?  Sweat doesn't even start this year

 
MAC_32 said:
Next year's #1 also comes with a 5th year option.

Cost control is about to become very important to this team getting better.  Without draft ammunition the roster is what it is going from one year to the next.  If anything it'd actually get worse as players leave.
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Sure does. But odds of us getting a Sweat like talent is unlikely. Heck, we may not even get a shot this draft. 

If he drops, it's solely due to medical. He's a top 5 talent on my board

 
ghostguy123 said:
Right.  And how much better would sweat make us the next couple years as opposed to the other player we take with the picks?  Sweat doesn't even start this year
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He probably has a higher ceiling than whoever we'd pick using 49 and use next year's #1 to acquire and the expectation would be he would have an impact this year.  Where I disagree with @Soulfly3 and others pounding the table for Sweat (or Simmons) is the combo of that player's risk and the impact it'd have on building the rest of the roster.  If a top end talent slides there are usually sound reasons for that happening.  They aren't a sure thing.  If they were then they'd be a top 5-10 pick and this conversation isn't happening.

I'm not adverse to taking risks on talent sliders, but using multiple premium picks?  Needlessly reckless.  The more darts you throw the greater the room for error.  Shoving all your chips into one player eliminates that room for error.  It's justifiable at QB because if you get that player wrong you're getting fired anyway, but it isn't at any other position.

 
The primary need position is S. 

Mike Clay's positional need chart has us with the 2nd worst safety positional grade in the league.

Mike Clay's UPDATED positional grade chart

He has us at a top-ten team based on grades of overall positions but safety is our primary need.

I love the idea of a top talent like Simmons or Sweat falling to us because it would be like trading a mid 2nd round  pick for a top-ten talent next year  but I don't like the idea of buying on credit and paying down the line.  

Dorsey has made  judicious FA signings without digging a hole with the cap and I think he'll do the same with his future draft picks.

He won the OBJ deal and that might be the best trade he'll  ever make in his career so I hope he's not trying to top that move.  It would be like Pink Floyd trying to to Dark Side of the Moon, or the Beatles trying to force Magical  Mystery Tour after Sgt Pepper.  Know  when to fold em Dorsey. 

You already won so don't push in all yer chips.  I think Simmons will fall into the 2nd and Miami has  the pick right in front of us and would be the team we'd have to move ahead of and a 5th to move up two spots seems like a great deal if he falls that far.  Someone will  fall but I don't think we should mortgage the future moving up too far.

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
The primary need position is S. 

Mike Clay's positional need chart has us with the 2nd worst safety positional grade in the league.

Mike Clay's UPDATED positional grade chart

He has us at a top-ten team based on grades of overall positions but safety is our primary need.

I love the idea of a top talent like Simmons or Sweat falling to us because it would be like trading a mid 2nd round  pick for a top-ten talent next year  but I don't like the idea of buying on credit and paying down the line.  

Dorsey has made  judicious FA signings without digging a hole with the cap and I think he'll do the same with his future draft picks.

He won the OBJ deal and that might be the best trade he'll  ever make in his career so I hope he's not trying to top that move.  It would be like Pink Floyd trying to top Black Side of the Moon, or the Beatles trying to force Magical  Mystery Tour after Sgt Pepper.  Know  when to fold em Dorsey. 

You already won so don't push in all yer chips.  I think Simmons will fall into the 2nd and Miami has  the pick right in front of us and would be the team we'd have to move ahead of and a 5th to move up two spots seems like a great deal if he falls that far.  Someone will  fall but I don't think we should mortgage the future moving up too far.
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I bet the black side is really dark.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The primary need position is S. 

Mike Clay's positional need chart has us with the 2nd worst safety positional grade in the league.

Mike Clay's UPDATED positional grade chart

He has us at a top-ten team based on grades of overall positions but safety is our primary need.

I love the idea of a top talent like Simmons or Sweat falling to us because it would be like trading a mid 2nd round  pick for a top-ten talent next year  but I don't like the idea of buying on credit and paying down the line.  

Dorsey has made  judicious FA signings without digging a hole with the cap and I think he'll do the same with his future draft picks.

He won the OBJ deal and that might be the best trade he'll  ever make in his career so I hope he's not trying to top that move.  It would be like Pink Floyd trying to to Dark Side of the Moon, or the Beatles trying to force Magical  Mystery Tour after Sgt Pepper.  Know  when to fold em Dorsey. 

You already won so don't push in all yer chips.  I think Simmons will fall into the 2nd and Miami has  the pick right in front of us and would be the team we'd have to move ahead of and a 5th to move up two spots seems like a great deal if he falls that far.  Someone will  fall but I don't think we should mortgage the future moving up too far.
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I'm really hoping they can grab Amani Hooker at some point on Day 2.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The primary need position is S. 
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Between the quality of talent likely to be available and our current depth chart this is why I don't think moving up from our 2 for a DL is ideal.  If we're moving up day 2 then I think the right play is to move up from our 3.  Get a S and a DL.  You could talk me into several different safeties, but my preference is Abram.

Not to get ahead of myself, but to get ahead of myself, if we still have our 4 and Isabella remains on the board deep into round 3 I'd be on board with a move up for him.

 
mr fancypants said:
Nice selection of DB's tomorrow both CB's & S's
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SAFETIES

  • S Juan Thornhill, Virginia – 6”, 205 lbs, 4.42 forty, 44” vert. almost a CB, dunk champion, 13 INTs (6 in 2018), ballhawk, great instincts, has some missed tackles but is willing in run support, does everything well, Marcus Maye 
  • S Taylor Rapp, Wash. – ran a bad 40 time: 4.7 but on tape is super quick and had the 2nd fastest 20 yd shuttle and fastest 60yd of the entire combine; Rapp can do a lot of different things and plays run, nickel, can blitz and be the 8th man in the box. 
  • S Chauncey Gardner Johnson, Florida - 5.11”, 210 lbs. 4.48 forty, 36” vert. played slot CB last year but in 2017 played single high safety, he will hit, aggressive in the run, stocky build, Nate Allen type 
  • S Nasir Adderley, Del. – forty time unknown, 5.11”, 206 lbs. good in coverage, a free safety that played at a smaller school vs. lesser competition, looked good a Senior Bowl but tape is a little inconsistent, 11 career INTs with lots of zone experience. Was a team captain. DJ Swearinger type.
CORNERBACKS

  • CB Greedy Williams, LSU - added him after 1st round, didn't expect him to be there but he is a possible trade up project. 
  • CB Byron Murphy, Wash. - added him after 1st round, didn't expect him to be there but he is a possible trade up project.  
  • CB Rock Ya-Sin, Temple – 6 ft 192 lbs. great frame, perfect CB body,, 4.51 forty, 39.5” verty tough and feisty CB, great Senior Bowl, not huge against the run, best as a Cover 3, only one year at Temple, great on the ball, big upside 
  • CB Justin Layne, Mich. St. - 6.2” 192 lbs. 4.5 forty, 37.5” cover 3 CB with outstanding length, vert. patient, good hands, WR turned CB, junior with not a lot of experience and bad technique, good ball skills & route recognition, lacks long speed 
  • CB Amani Oruwairye, Penn St. – 6.2”, 205 lbs. 4.47 forty, 36.5” vert. great ball skills, a little tight, inexperienced and raw, bad tackler but willing, good for cover 3 scheme and zone, can play big WRs and press, he could take a little development time. 
  • CB Lonnie Johnson, Kentucky – 6.2” 213 lbs. , 4.52 forty 38” vert., tall corner not tested, doesn’t have the best technique but has the attitude and physical assets to be really great, raw and inconsistent, may take a year or 2 because he has some flaws that need worked out. Better in cover 3 zone than man. Good at Senior Bowl; only 1 INT in 2 seasons. 
  • CB Trayvon Mullen, Clemson - 6.1 ½” 199 lbs. 4.46 forty, 34.5” vert. Lovecousin of Lamar Jackson, great in press, man to man CB, not as good in zone; good tackler in the run game; great game against Alabama 
  • CB Julian Love – Notre Dame – 5.11’” 195 lbs. not as long as the rest of this group, also lacks long speed 4.54 forty 36” vert. but he is very consistent; great technique for both man and zone and further along in development than most of the other CBs he could be good in zone, 16 pass breakups in 2018. 
 
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You can talk me into each safety except Rapp.  Since speed's so important to Dorsey I doubt he's on the radar anyway.

I think there's a fall-off after the first three CB's and would rank Mullen #4.  I like Love, but because of his lack of speed coupled with his other physical traits I doubt he's on Dorsey's radar this early. I feel better about an under developed CB from Kentucky than I do one from Michigan State.  If you don't develop under Dantonio that's a red flag to me.

But, most importantly...

...and.

 
What are the odds that Dorsey moves up and gets 2 picks in the 2nd round?  With all of those 5's sitting out there, I'd have to think it's an option on the table.

Aside from CB/S, I also like that Dre'Mont Jones is still available.  I know Dorsey and team have had their eyes on him the last month or so as well. 

 
Peak said:
What are the odds that Dorsey moves up and gets 2 picks in the 2nd round?  With all of those 5's sitting out there, I'd have to think it's an option on the table.

Aside from CB/S, I also like that Dre'Mont Jones is still available.  I know Dorsey and team have had their eyes on him the last month or so as well. 
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Khalen Saunders > Dre'Mont Jones.

I thought it before, but based on this I think Dorsey will be trying to use those 5's to move up all night.  And if he still has them and his 4 in his pocket as round 3's coming to a close then he'll try to make another move then.  Possible he re-assesses due to a particular player or two falling out of round one today, but Layne doesn't usually put something like that out there then ends up being wrong later.

 
MAC_32 said:
Khalen Saunders > Dre'Mont Jones.

I thought it before, but based on this I think Dorsey will be trying to use those 5's to move up all night.  And if he still has them and his 4 in his pocket as round 3's coming to a close then he'll try to make another move then.  Possible he re-assesses due to a particular player or two falling out of round one today, but Layne doesn't usually put something like that out there then ends up being wrong later.
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Good point, and agree about LA's takes.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5th packaged with 80 to move up into the 2nd round.  I think he meant trading down out of 80, but I can definitely see Dorsey moving up - especially if he sees value in guys still available.  Either way, there are too many 5th round picks for them to keep.  Plus they have Duke as another bargaining chip for the right situation.  Not sure he'll get moved, but there has been buzz around him for the last month.  I could see him being a trading chip as well.  I don't think Dorsey would trade Duke for a pick, but I could see him packaged for another player.

 
Peak said:
Good point, and agree about LA's takes.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5th packaged with 80 to move up into the 2nd round.  I think he meant trading down out of 80, but I can definitely see Dorsey moving up - especially if he sees value in guys still available.  Either way, there are too many 5th round picks for them to keep.  Plus they have Duke as another bargaining chip for the right situation.  Not sure he'll get moved, but there has been buzz around him for the last month.  I could see him being a trading chip as well.  I don't think Dorsey would trade Duke for a pick, but I could see him packaged for another player.
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Yep - I think everything below the 4 is preferably trade ammo, only.  There isn't enough room for many rookies this year, so use the excess to go get the guys you want.

 
MAC_32 said:
You can talk me into each safety except Rapp.  Since speed's so important to Dorsey I doubt he's on the radar anyway.

I think there's a fall-off after the first three CB's and would rank Mullen #4.  I like Love, but because of his lack of speed coupled with his other physical traits I doubt he's on Dorsey's radar this early. I feel better about an under developed CB from Kentucky than I do one from Michigan State.  If you don't develop under Dantonio that's a red flag to me.

But, most importantly...

...and.
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I don't know the scheme that Wilks is going to run but I don't see a 3-4 base with Garrett and two 3-tech DTs so even though I like the 3-4 OLB/DE Chase a lot, I am not sure he fits the scheme.  

The thing that I sse of the CBs is that Baltimore drafted Hollywood and his speed is terrifying.I'm Greedy so I'd seriously consider moving up for this guy. >>>  Greedy Williams posts a 4.38 40  

...At 6’2″, Williams has good height to go with that speed and picked off eight passes at LSU while knocking away 19 other pass attempts. Those are some of the biggest reasons why he’s slated to be a high pick. As Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Media explained last week, tackling won’t be one of those reasons.

“I’m sure he’s answering a million questions about that this week,” Jeremiah said, via the Detroit Free Press. “He just hasn’t been — sometimes you miss a tackle here or there, but he hasn’t been interested. Hanging onto blocks and not really making an effort at times.”

With passing numbers robust around the league, Williams’ athleticism and skills in coverage will likely trump the tackling issues for enough teams that he won’t be waiting long to hear his name called come April.
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Bracie Smathers said:
I don't know the scheme that Wilks is going to run but I don't see a 3-4 base with Garrett and two 3-tech DTs so even though I like the 3-4 OLB/DE Chase a lot, I am not sure he fits the scheme.  
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I think he's versatile enough to play both 4-3 and 3-4.  I get that setting the edge against the run isn't a strength, so him not being out there on obvious run downs would be a good thing.  But on this depth chart that can be easily administered.

 
MAC_32 said:
I think he's versatile enough to play both 4-3 and 3-4.  I get that setting the edge against the run isn't a strength, so him not being out there on obvious run downs would be a good thing.  But on this depth chart that can be easily administered.
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I like Chase, I really do but I fear Marquise Brown's speed/burst/explosion.  

We have a hole in the secondary and got rid of slow dudes.

Dorsey's second pick was a speedy corner.

I want Greedy if at all possible.

 
i agree with the notion that Dorsey will be busy in rounds 2 and 3.  

i was honestly a bit surprised (and relieved) that he didn’t trade back into the first round.  

 
amnesiac said:
i agree with the notion that Dorsey will be busy in rounds 2 and 3.  

i was honestly a bit surprised (and relieved) that he didn’t trade back into the first round.  
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The way the trades were coming in, I thought it was us more than once.  Glad he didn't though.

Would love to come out of today with a solid defensive player and Isabella like Mac has said.  Been alot of talk about Andy here locally, like super local within Mayfield (not Baker) school system, for over a year now.  Would be a good story for the area and IMO a perfect fit with Baker moving forward learning from Jarvis in the slot and ultimately taking over for him.

 
Based on the trades last night at the end of the 1st, it seems picks 49/80 would have landed us one of those picks if we wanted.   

Still a lot of nice players left at the top of the 2nd, and I would imagine we are gonna get up around 40.

Hoping for a bit of a run on QB/RB/WR/OL.  I am hoping for a DB

How high would pick 8 and three 5ths get us ?  :banned: :excited:

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
I don't know the scheme that Wilks is going to run but I don't see a 3-4 base with Garrett and two 3-tech DTs so even though I like the 3-4 OLB/DE Chase a lot, I am not sure he fits the scheme.  

The thing that I sse of the CBs is that Baltimore drafted Hollywood and his speed is terrifying.I'm Greedy so I'd seriously consider moving up for this guy. >>>  Greedy Williams posts a 4.38 40  
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Ka boom

 
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