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Do You Believe That The Modern "Tipping" Culture Has Gone Completely Out Of Control? (1/30) (1 Viewer)

*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
Despite the good advice in this thread I simply can’t break my tipping guilt. Went to Firehouse subs yesterday for lunch, when they turned that little screen around with the tip options on there this thread ran through my head. I stared at the screen for probably 15 secs (girl working the counter probably thought I was nuts) then pressed the 20%. I hated myself for it but at the same time was like “that $2.50 means nothing to you. Don’t be a ****.”
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
Despite the good advice in this thread I simply can’t break my tipping guilt. Went to Firehouse subs yesterday for lunch, when they turned that little screen around with the tip options on there this thread ran through my head. I stared at the screen for probably 15 secs (girl working the counter probably thought I was nuts) then pressed the 20%. I hated myself for it but at the same time was like “that $2.50 means nothing to you. Don’t be a ****.”
Sucker. 😜
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
Servers know when they give good or bad service and when they're rewarded for it or not. Not sure about other countries but like it or not there's a tipping culture in the US. To suggest to give the standard or zero is frankly, idiotic.
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
Servers know when they give good or bad service and when they're rewarded for it or not. Not sure about other countries but like it or not there's a tipping culture in the US. To suggest to give the standard or zero is frankly, idiotic.
Did you bother to read the whole comment?
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
Servers know when they give good or bad service and when they're rewarded for it or not. Not sure about other countries but like it or not there's a tipping culture in the US. To suggest to give the standard or zero is frankly, idiotic.
Did you bother to read the whole comment?
yes what did i miss?
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
Servers know when they give good or bad service and when they're rewarded for it or not. Not sure about other countries but like it or not there's a tipping culture in the US. To suggest to give the standard or zero is frankly, idiotic.
Did you bother to read the whole comment?
yes what did i miss?
I mean the entire context. Not sure who you are or if you are known to be intentionally obtuse.
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
No, I don't think servers are doing math on the fly to determine if their performance is up to the standard of their customers.

On a $100 bill you think someone is seeing $18 and going "well I should have filled their water up faster"?

So no, I don't and I find the whole tipping band absurd. Tip a standard amount, or leave nothing and talk to the manager. There's no requirement to say you left zero, just say the service wasn't up to your own standards and it needs to be looked at. Then leave. Anything else is asking way too much of someone to be clairvoyant.
Servers know when they give good or bad service and when they're rewarded for it or not. Not sure about other countries but like it or not there's a tipping culture in the US. To suggest to give the standard or zero is frankly, idiotic.
Did you bother to read the whole comment?
yes what did i miss?
I mean the entire context. Not sure who you are or if you are known to be intentionally obtuse.
I don't know who you are either. Either reply to the question or don't.
 
It’s out of hand. Especially for take out counter service. I complied for awhile but going to go the other way now. I’m generous when I’m actually getting service.


Direct Headline: Delivery driver takes away customer’s food after discovering he had given an $8 tip

Greg Evans 3/5/23

A delivery driver who made a 40 minute trip to deliver food for a customer refused to give the customer his order after discovering that he had tipped her just $8 dollars ....for the 12-and-a-half mile trip. In viral footage captured by the homeowner’s doorbell camera, the clearly annoyed driver asks to speak to him before handing the food over....The DoorDash driver tells the man that he “must not realize” how far the food had come. As she explained his house is in Smithtown, Long Island and the restaurant which had ordered from is in Commack, which she claims takes 40 minutes to drive. The man disputed this saying that it was between 15-20 minutes by car....

....The driver then asks the man to adjust his tip to which he responds “What the hell are you looking for? I gave an $8 tip.” At this point the driver explains that she is going to return the food and starts walking back down the path towards her vehicle....The video shared on YouTube has been viewed more than 800,000 times. The comments are mostly critical of the woman saying that she acted inappropriately and that $8 was more than enough ....

...One user who claims to have worked for DoorDash explained “I deliver with DD as well and sometimes they send me orders for something that's 10-15 miles away for about $10-12 bucks. The mileage they show on the app is the distance to pick up the food and then to the customers home, NOT counting the mileage back! If I don't get at least $1 dollar a mile for there AND back mileage, I decline the order....”

....A spokesperson from DoorDash is quoted by The Mirror as saying: “We take the safety of our community extremely seriously, and such inappropriate behavior is never tolerated on the DoorDash platform...."Any behaviour that violates this zero tolerance policy is grounds for deactivation, and the Dasher involved has been removed from our platform. We have been in touch with the customer to offer support, and sincerely regret that this incident fell short of the experience we strive to provide every day...."


https://www.indy100.com/viral/delivery-driver-takes-away-food-tip-viral



VIDEO: Doordash Driver Confronts Customer about $8 tip Dec 29, 2020

"I also like how she keeps shaking her head to agree with herself. This woman is priceless..."

"As a veteran driver myself, the best advice I can say is set virtual boundaries of where you're willing to go, and don't accept outside those boundaries. Never take a call under $7, and that's only if it's very local. Refuse low ball calls, DD doesn't care if you only have a 25% acceptance rate. If they won't respect your time and vehicle, you don't have to take the call...."

"This is why my acceptance rate on Doordash is 1%. Doordash doesn’t pay drivers for distance...."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od5oQROVbrw



*********


I would say the above situation is out of hand, but it also has some context to it.

Doordash will put it's foot on the throats of it's drivers, that's clear, as much as possible. But it's also not acceptable to lay into a customer, when the issue is between the dynamics of the drivers and how Doordash handles them.

I guess the silent question is if she actually just "took it back" or just ate the meal herself. Don't know. Considering the overall situation, there's a glaring erosion of basic social boundaries now in our society.

I'm at the point now where I wouldn't blame delivery drivers, all of them, and including Uber and Lyft drivers too, if they decided to be armed full time. And I wouldn't blame potential passengers and customers too, as well, if they also chose to be armed full time.

This instance was bizarre and it went viral. What happens the next time when someone drives their car through your front door?
 
It’s out of hand. Especially for take out counter service. I complied for awhile but going to go the other way now. I’m generous when I’m actually getting service.


Direct Headline: Delivery driver takes away customer’s food after discovering he had given an $8 tip

Greg Evans 3/5/23

A delivery driver who made a 40 minute trip to deliver food for a customer refused to give the customer his order after discovering that he had tipped her just $8 dollars ....for the 12-and-a-half mile trip. In viral footage captured by the homeowner’s doorbell camera, the clearly annoyed driver asks to speak to him before handing the food over....The DoorDash driver tells the man that he “must not realize” how far the food had come. As she explained his house is in Smithtown, Long Island and the restaurant which had ordered from is in Commack, which she claims takes 40 minutes to drive. The man disputed this saying that it was between 15-20 minutes by car....

....The driver then asks the man to adjust his tip to which he responds “What the hell are you looking for? I gave an $8 tip.” At this point the driver explains that she is going to return the food and starts walking back down the path towards her vehicle....The video shared on YouTube has been viewed more than 800,000 times. The comments are mostly critical of the woman saying that she acted inappropriately and that $8 was more than enough ....

...One user who claims to have worked for DoorDash explained “I deliver with DD as well and sometimes they send me orders for something that's 10-15 miles away for about $10-12 bucks. The mileage they show on the app is the distance to pick up the food and then to the customers home, NOT counting the mileage back! If I don't get at least $1 dollar a mile for there AND back mileage, I decline the order....”

....A spokesperson from DoorDash is quoted by The Mirror as saying: “We take the safety of our community extremely seriously, and such inappropriate behavior is never tolerated on the DoorDash platform...."Any behaviour that violates this zero tolerance policy is grounds for deactivation, and the Dasher involved has been removed from our platform. We have been in touch with the customer to offer support, and sincerely regret that this incident fell short of the experience we strive to provide every day...."


https://www.indy100.com/viral/delivery-driver-takes-away-food-tip-viral



VIDEO: Doordash Driver Confronts Customer about $8 tip Dec 29, 2020

"I also like how she keeps shaking her head to agree with herself. This woman is priceless..."

"As a veteran driver myself, the best advice I can say is set virtual boundaries of where you're willing to go, and don't accept outside those boundaries. Never take a call under $7, and that's only if it's very local. Refuse low ball calls, DD doesn't care if you only have a 25% acceptance rate. If they won't respect your time and vehicle, you don't have to take the call...."

"This is why my acceptance rate on Doordash is 1%. Doordash doesn’t pay drivers for distance...."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od5oQROVbrw



*********


I would say the above situation is out of hand, but it also has some context to it.

Doordash will put it's foot on the throats of it's drivers, that's clear, as much as possible. But it's also not acceptable to lay into a customer, when the issue is between the dynamics of the drivers and how Doordash handles them.

I guess the silent question is if she actually just "took it back" or just ate the meal herself. Don't know. Considering the overall situation, there's a glaring erosion of basic social boundaries now in our society.

I'm at the point now where I wouldn't blame delivery drivers, all of them, and including Uber and Lyft drivers too, if they decided to be armed full time. And I wouldn't blame potential passengers and customers too, as well, if they also chose to be armed full time.

This instance was bizarre and it went viral. What happens the next time when someone drives their car through your front door?
Orders should be charged by the mile, then buyers can tip on top of that if they choose. This is clearly on DD.
But it’s also a reason I never use DD or any food delivery service.
 
I do feel like the entire premise that tipping is a reward for excellent service is flawed, and relies on a server taking data in real time that isn't there and making sense of it. A high or low tip is much more likely to be due to the tipper, not the service received. Or in many cases bad math.

I bet if you look at it the main driver across a staff is who is hottest. Hotter waitresses probably rake, and nothing else matters.
This
 
Thinking about this thread this morning, went into a local bakery where i'm a regular customer get bagels breads, pastries, etc., it's a bit of a drive so i stock up and prob spend $50 every few weeks. Never had a tipping option but this morning now have the typical options, 15%, 20%, 25%, other. Did no tip but felt like kind of an a-hole b/c I'm a regular there. But they're seriously asking me to tip 20 or 25% so an extra 10-12 bucks every few weeks. For putting some bagels and pastries in a bag. Now i would be fine with tipping 2 or 3 bucks but there's no point in that because am still gonna feel like an a-hole. There's no distinction between that kind of service and going for a full meal where a waiter provides service for potentially a couple hours. It's completely nuts.
 
Direct Headline: Opinion Diners don’t want to be surprised by service fees

By Chris J. Kennedy March 16, 2023

.... In May, restaurants and bars will begin to gradually raise the base wage they pay tipped employees, with the “tip credit” set to disappear in about four years....Fortunately, customers have kept restaurant owners, including me, afloat. At first, they purchased to-go cocktails at restaurant prices and navigated a complicated network of delivery services. When restaurants and bars reopened, customers adapted to QR codes, counter service and varying pandemic protocols. And then came the service charges....

....Before the pandemic, to “auto-grat” — preemptively adding a 15 to 20 percent tip to a customer’s bill — was controversial and generally reserved for large groups, usually at the discretion of the server. Three years later, service charges — now ranging from 18 to 24 percent — have become the norm and, though some have heralded this as a step toward a post-tip utopia, the reality is that tips are still encouraged at most establishments and charges have multiplied as supply chain issues and general inflation have further increased costs....

....Why haven’t restaurants simply raised prices? Well, there is evidence that consumers are less sensitive to “shrouded” costs — fees or taxes requiring a bit of mental calculation. In an industry long resistant to raising prices, many owners decided service charges were a better option for the bottom line. But this approach is both an unsustainable way to address background inflation and a crude method of pricing across a menu. More important, it is corrosive to one of the core features of our industry: trust.....

....The restaurant industry is stuck in a “prisoner’s dilemma” that has led to behavior more typical of predatory lenders or airlines. Frankly, many owners would like to simply raise prices, but they know they are competing with others who play the “shrouded cost” game, and, as such, they feel the sticker shock that comes with honesty will put them at a competitive disadvantage. So, fees proliferate, and customers who have stuck with us through the pandemic are increasingly exasperated by charges for service, employee wellness and covid-19 recovery, all with no discernible improvement in service and an increasingly impersonal experience.....

...As restaurant receipts look more and more like used car dealership invoices, can we really expect first-time customers to become regulars? When a bartender forgets to mention a service charge is included in a check that still has a tip line, does that have a deeper, more corrosive impact? Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to ask customers enjoying a night out to read the fine print after we fought to rein in delivery services and their usurious fees? And, when internal conflicts over service-charge sharing spill into public view — often with an insinuation of wage theft — what does that do to our image as trusted members of the community?...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/16/dc-tipped-wage-initiative-service-fees/



******


This WaPo article highlights part of the issue that no one is talking about.

If you don't cook your pricing on the back end, and your competitors do it, does that hurt you from people not walking in the door in the first place. Many restaurants aren't thinking about their reputation two years from now or even six months from now, they are looking at how to survive today. Many are just scraping by and barely staying afloat.

Chains can take some hits and ride out the storm. But the small businesses that will be massacred first are the small independents. Which appears to be part of the overall design.

The only thing that appears clear is just walking through the front door is going to subject you to some kind of hit. This is bad. Bad for the economy in general and bad for many small businesses.

So it's not just tips is a vacuum, it's widespread changes across the entire industry and the problem with tipping may be a lagging indicator of something more insidious.
 
Thinking about this thread this morning, went into a local bakery where i'm a regular customer get bagels breads, pastries, etc., it's a bit of a drive so i stock up and prob spend $50 every few weeks. Never had a tipping option but this morning now have the typical options, 15%, 20%, 25%, other. Did no tip but felt like kind of an a-hole b/c I'm a regular there. But they're seriously asking me to tip 20 or 25% so an extra 10-12 bucks every few weeks. For putting some bagels and pastries in a bag. Now i would be fine with tipping 2 or 3 bucks but there's no point in that because am still gonna feel like an a-hole. There's no distinction between that kind of service and going for a full meal where a waiter provides service for potentially a couple hours. It's completely nuts.
**** them. I would never tip for that, ever, and I find it offensive because it's nothing more than guilt tipping.
 
Direct Headline: Opinion Diners don’t want to be surprised by service fees

By Chris J. Kennedy March 16, 2023

.... In May, restaurants and bars will begin to gradually raise the base wage they pay tipped employees, with the “tip credit” set to disappear in about four years....Fortunately, customers have kept restaurant owners, including me, afloat. At first, they purchased to-go cocktails at restaurant prices and navigated a complicated network of delivery services. When restaurants and bars reopened, customers adapted to QR codes, counter service and varying pandemic protocols. And then came the service charges....

....Before the pandemic, to “auto-grat” — preemptively adding a 15 to 20 percent tip to a customer’s bill — was controversial and generally reserved for large groups, usually at the discretion of the server. Three years later, service charges — now ranging from 18 to 24 percent — have become the norm and, though some have heralded this as a step toward a post-tip utopia, the reality is that tips are still encouraged at most establishments and charges have multiplied as supply chain issues and general inflation have further increased costs....

....Why haven’t restaurants simply raised prices? Well, there is evidence that consumers are less sensitive to “shrouded” costs — fees or taxes requiring a bit of mental calculation. In an industry long resistant to raising prices, many owners decided service charges were a better option for the bottom line. But this approach is both an unsustainable way to address background inflation and a crude method of pricing across a menu. More important, it is corrosive to one of the core features of our industry: trust.....

....The restaurant industry is stuck in a “prisoner’s dilemma” that has led to behavior more typical of predatory lenders or airlines. Frankly, many owners would like to simply raise prices, but they know they are competing with others who play the “shrouded cost” game, and, as such, they feel the sticker shock that comes with honesty will put them at a competitive disadvantage. So, fees proliferate, and customers who have stuck with us through the pandemic are increasingly exasperated by charges for service, employee wellness and covid-19 recovery, all with no discernible improvement in service and an increasingly impersonal experience.....

...As restaurant receipts look more and more like used car dealership invoices, can we really expect first-time customers to become regulars? When a bartender forgets to mention a service charge is included in a check that still has a tip line, does that have a deeper, more corrosive impact? Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to ask customers enjoying a night out to read the fine print after we fought to rein in delivery services and their usurious fees? And, when internal conflicts over service-charge sharing spill into public view — often with an insinuation of wage theft — what does that do to our image as trusted members of the community?...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/16/dc-tipped-wage-initiative-service-fees/



******


This WaPo article highlights part of the issue that no one is talking about.

If you don't cook your pricing on the back end, and your competitors do it, does that hurt you from people not walking in the door in the first place. Many restaurants aren't thinking about their reputation two years from now or even six months from now, they are looking at how to survive today. Many are just scraping by and barely staying afloat.

Chains can take some hits and ride out the storm. But the small businesses that will be massacred first are the small independents. Which appears to be part of the overall design.

The only thing that appears clear is just walking through the front door is going to subject you to some kind of hit. This is bad. Bad for the economy in general and bad for many small businesses.

So it's not just tips is a vacuum, it's widespread changes across the entire industry and the problem with tipping may be a lagging indicator of something more insidious.
It appears to me that this is not a "problem with tipping", but a problem with owners adding service fees.

The difference between tips and service fees, is that restaurants can legally keep service fees. Tips are illegal to keep, but service fees can be kept by the owner, and guests are fooled into believing Service Fees are gratuity for the server. Which I have already pointed out in this thread.

Notice the Service Fees are about the same amount as a tip. DO YOU THINK THIS IS A COINCIDENCE? Or do you think maybe restaurants are counting on the guests assuming this is gratuity, and not some nebulous, random "service charge", like a random Ticketmaster fee.

Restaurants have begun engaging in shady practices involving "fees", and this is a tipping problem? Mmm, I don't think so.
 
Didn’t realize how much I hate the whole tipping BS until I went to Ireland for a week.

Drivers politely load and unload your bags expecting nothing more than a “thanks”. Bartenders run your tab and there’s not even any place/step to add a tip. You simply tap your card and go. Waiters/waitresses actually help each other out so service/attention is 100x better than what we’re used to. It’s so smart and efficient. When you’re ready to leave, you go to the bar, or front desk, or pay anyone you see. It’s so easy. And fast. And cheap (I was continually amazed by our check total every time we went out to eat). Everyone is just happier without all the dumb “rules” and hassle. It adds so much unrealized time, money and stress to every transaction. You don’t even realize it until you experience life without it.

I can only imagine what Europeans think when they come to America and buy some overpriced food item at a fast food counter and are handed an iPod expecting a 15% tip for absolutely no reason. It’s seriously beyond ridiculous.
 
I never order food for delivery anymore because of the "pressure" and expectations of giving the "right" tip. I'd rather just go pick it up and not deal with it.

I hate to break it to you, but the person handing you your takeout order is probably expecting to be tipped like a waiter so you've just got to do the same thing at the counter instead of your porch.
 
Direct Headline: Opinion Diners don’t want to be surprised by service fees

By Chris J. Kennedy March 16, 2023

.... In May, restaurants and bars will begin to gradually raise the base wage they pay tipped employees, with the “tip credit” set to disappear in about four years....Fortunately, customers have kept restaurant owners, including me, afloat. At first, they purchased to-go cocktails at restaurant prices and navigated a complicated network of delivery services. When restaurants and bars reopened, customers adapted to QR codes, counter service and varying pandemic protocols. And then came the service charges....

....Before the pandemic, to “auto-grat” — preemptively adding a 15 to 20 percent tip to a customer’s bill — was controversial and generally reserved for large groups, usually at the discretion of the server. Three years later, service charges — now ranging from 18 to 24 percent — have become the norm and, though some have heralded this as a step toward a post-tip utopia, the reality is that tips are still encouraged at most establishments and charges have multiplied as supply chain issues and general inflation have further increased costs....

....Why haven’t restaurants simply raised prices? Well, there is evidence that consumers are less sensitive to “shrouded” costs — fees or taxes requiring a bit of mental calculation. In an industry long resistant to raising prices, many owners decided service charges were a better option for the bottom line. But this approach is both an unsustainable way to address background inflation and a crude method of pricing across a menu. More important, it is corrosive to one of the core features of our industry: trust.....

....The restaurant industry is stuck in a “prisoner’s dilemma” that has led to behavior more typical of predatory lenders or airlines. Frankly, many owners would like to simply raise prices, but they know they are competing with others who play the “shrouded cost” game, and, as such, they feel the sticker shock that comes with honesty will put them at a competitive disadvantage. So, fees proliferate, and customers who have stuck with us through the pandemic are increasingly exasperated by charges for service, employee wellness and covid-19 recovery, all with no discernible improvement in service and an increasingly impersonal experience.....

...As restaurant receipts look more and more like used car dealership invoices, can we really expect first-time customers to become regulars? When a bartender forgets to mention a service charge is included in a check that still has a tip line, does that have a deeper, more corrosive impact? Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to ask customers enjoying a night out to read the fine print after we fought to rein in delivery services and their usurious fees? And, when internal conflicts over service-charge sharing spill into public view — often with an insinuation of wage theft — what does that do to our image as trusted members of the community?...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/16/dc-tipped-wage-initiative-service-fees/



******


This WaPo article highlights part of the issue that no one is talking about.

If you don't cook your pricing on the back end, and your competitors do it, does that hurt you from people not walking in the door in the first place. Many restaurants aren't thinking about their reputation two years from now or even six months from now, they are looking at how to survive today. Many are just scraping by and barely staying afloat.

Chains can take some hits and ride out the storm. But the small businesses that will be massacred first are the small independents. Which appears to be part of the overall design.

The only thing that appears clear is just walking through the front door is going to subject you to some kind of hit. This is bad. Bad for the economy in general and bad for many small businesses.

So it's not just tips is a vacuum, it's widespread changes across the entire industry and the problem with tipping may be a lagging indicator of something more insidious.

Does Doordash not show the drivers the tip before the delivery? You have to put the tip in upfront on the app, before you place the order.

Which is another thing that grinds my gears. DD drivers screw up pretty often (only picking up half the order and leaving the other bag behind, dropping at the wrong house, etc), but I've already put my tip in ahead of time when they're clearly mailing it in..
 
I never order food for delivery anymore because of the "pressure" and expectations of giving the "right" tip. I'd rather just go pick it up and not deal with it.

I hate to break it to you, but the person handing you your takeout order is probably expecting to be tipped like a waiter so you've just got to do the same thing at the counter instead of your porch.
I’ve been in the industry forever. This ain’t happening. Few dollars, sure. But not 20% or even 10%
 
Does Doordash not show the drivers the tip before the delivery? You have to put the tip in upfront on the app, before you place the order.

Which is another thing that grinds my gears. DD drivers screw up pretty often (only picking up half the order and leaving the other bag behind, dropping at the wrong house, etc), but I've already put my tip in ahead of time when they're clearly mailing it in..

This is why I can't wrap my arms around third-party meal-delivery services yet. It's too much of a high-wire walk, and getting mistakes fixed is an order of magnitude more difficult with an unaffected middleman in the way.
 
This is why I can't wrap my arms around third-party meal-delivery services yet. It's too much of a high-wire walk, and getting mistakes fixed is an order of magnitude more difficult with an unaffected middleman in the way.
It's bad for the guest, bad for the restaurant (percentage taken is normally higher than most profit margins), bad for the delivery person.

it's only good for Door Dash/Uber Eats.

Unless it's 9 degrees on your day off, and you wake and bake, and then it's the best dang thing in the world.
 
I’ve been in the industry forever. This ain’t happening. Few dollars, sure. But not 20% or even 10%

Tell you what, though. I worked at a national chain place in the mid-90s (since you're in the industry: a Darden property) and the people packing and bagging take-out orders were definitely complaining about a few dollars on, say, $40-$50 orders.

This is where individual restaurant dynamics can come into play. At our place, new/inexperienced wait staff would be put on take-out-prep duty during busy shifts, otherwise the bartender(s) would take care of them. With that set-up, there was sometimes resentment from the take-out person: wait staff saw it as losing out on the money they'd have made that night with a proper 3-4 table station or an expediter** shift; bartenders sometimes saw it as PITA overhead work that got in the way of taking care of their main bar duties [they had to leave the bar area to pull food, pack & bag, etc.].

Conversely, a few of our local Chinese-cuisine places do so much take-out that they have people dedicated to working the phones and prepping take-out orders. Sometimes it's elderly employees (family sometimes for sure) that don't need to be walking a floor all night but can handle counter work. Sometimes it's teens/college kids (sometimes also family) that can't sell alcohol yet and so won't be waiting tables anyway. At places like that, you can get away with dropping $3 on a $50 order -- the overall ethic surrounding the take-out transaction is entirely different.


** Expediters were tipped out at our restaurant. Usually just staffed during busy shifts.
 
I never order food for delivery anymore because of the "pressure" and expectations of giving the "right" tip. I'd rather just go pick it up and not deal with it.

I hate to break it to you, but the person handing you your takeout order is probably expecting to be tipped like a waiter so you've just got to do the same thing at the counter instead of your porch.
They aren't "refusing to deliver my order" when I go pick it up. It's ok if they expect 20%, they're never to young or old to learn life is full of disappointment.
 
I never order food for delivery anymore because of the "pressure" and expectations of giving the "right" tip. I'd rather just go pick it up and not deal with it.

I hate to break it to you, but the person handing you your takeout order is probably expecting to be tipped like a waiter so you've just got to do the same thing at the counter instead of your porch.
But you've already paid at that point and are just picking up the food.
 
Direct Headline: Opinion Diners don’t want to be surprised by service fees

By Chris J. Kennedy March 16, 2023

.... In May, restaurants and bars will begin to gradually raise the base wage they pay tipped employees, with the “tip credit” set to disappear in about four years....Fortunately, customers have kept restaurant owners, including me, afloat. At first, they purchased to-go cocktails at restaurant prices and navigated a complicated network of delivery services. When restaurants and bars reopened, customers adapted to QR codes, counter service and varying pandemic protocols. And then came the service charges....

....Before the pandemic, to “auto-grat” — preemptively adding a 15 to 20 percent tip to a customer’s bill — was controversial and generally reserved for large groups, usually at the discretion of the server. Three years later, service charges — now ranging from 18 to 24 percent — have become the norm and, though some have heralded this as a step toward a post-tip utopia, the reality is that tips are still encouraged at most establishments and charges have multiplied as supply chain issues and general inflation have further increased costs....

....Why haven’t restaurants simply raised prices? Well, there is evidence that consumers are less sensitive to “shrouded” costs — fees or taxes requiring a bit of mental calculation. In an industry long resistant to raising prices, many owners decided service charges were a better option for the bottom line. But this approach is both an unsustainable way to address background inflation and a crude method of pricing across a menu. More important, it is corrosive to one of the core features of our industry: trust.....

....The restaurant industry is stuck in a “prisoner’s dilemma” that has led to behavior more typical of predatory lenders or airlines. Frankly, many owners would like to simply raise prices, but they know they are competing with others who play the “shrouded cost” game, and, as such, they feel the sticker shock that comes with honesty will put them at a competitive disadvantage. So, fees proliferate, and customers who have stuck with us through the pandemic are increasingly exasperated by charges for service, employee wellness and covid-19 recovery, all with no discernible improvement in service and an increasingly impersonal experience.....

...As restaurant receipts look more and more like used car dealership invoices, can we really expect first-time customers to become regulars? When a bartender forgets to mention a service charge is included in a check that still has a tip line, does that have a deeper, more corrosive impact? Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to ask customers enjoying a night out to read the fine print after we fought to rein in delivery services and their usurious fees? And, when internal conflicts over service-charge sharing spill into public view — often with an insinuation of wage theft — what does that do to our image as trusted members of the community?...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/16/dc-tipped-wage-initiative-service-fees/



******


This WaPo article highlights part of the issue that no one is talking about.

If you don't cook your pricing on the back end, and your competitors do it, does that hurt you from people not walking in the door in the first place. Many restaurants aren't thinking about their reputation two years from now or even six months from now, they are looking at how to survive today. Many are just scraping by and barely staying afloat.

Chains can take some hits and ride out the storm. But the small businesses that will be massacred first are the small independents. Which appears to be part of the overall design.

The only thing that appears clear is just walking through the front door is going to subject you to some kind of hit. This is bad. Bad for the economy in general and bad for many small businesses.

So it's not just tips is a vacuum, it's widespread changes across the entire industry and the problem with tipping may be a lagging indicator of something more insidious.

Does Doordash not show the drivers the tip before the delivery? You have to put the tip in upfront on the app, before you place the order.

Which is another thing that grinds my gears. DD drivers screw up pretty often (only picking up half the order and leaving the other bag behind, dropping at the wrong house, etc), but I've already put my tip in ahead of time when they're clearly mailing it in..
Yep, tipping before the service is rendered is no longer a tip, it's just an extra charge, albeit somewhat voluntary.

And really that completely defeats the purpose of tipping. When I get good service at a restaurant and have a nice overall experience, when I leave a good tip it's a way to say thank you and to let the server know that their efforts are appreciated and valued.
 
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I’ve been in the industry forever. This ain’t happening. Few dollars, sure. But not 20% or even 10%

Tell you what, though. I worked at a national chain place in the mid-90s (since you're in the industry: a Darden property) and the people packing and bagging take-out orders were definitely complaining about a few dollars on, say, $40-$50 orders.

This is where individual restaurant dynamics can come into play. At our place, new/inexperienced wait staff would be put on take-out-prep duty during busy shifts, otherwise the bartender(s) would take care of them. With that set-up, there was sometimes resentment from the take-out person: wait staff saw it as losing out on the money they'd have made that night with a proper 3-4 table station or an expediter** shift; bartenders sometimes saw it as PITA overhead work that got in the way of taking care of their main bar duties [they had to leave the bar area to pull food, pack & bag, etc.].

Conversely, a few of our local Chinese-cuisine places do so much take-out that they have people dedicated to working the phones and prepping take-out orders. Sometimes it's elderly employees (family sometimes for sure) that don't need to be walking a floor all night but can handle counter work. Sometimes it's teens/college kids (sometimes also family) that can't sell alcohol yet and so won't be waiting tables anyway. At places like that, you can get away with dropping $3 on a $50 order -- the overall ethic surrounding the take-out transaction is entirely different.


** Expediters were tipped out at our restaurant. Usually just staffed during busy shifts.
Darden. 😜

all of that is correct. I’m still not tipping full freight on to go orders. Don’t want to work the To go counter? Be better at your job.
 
Went to West Palm beach / Singer Island area last week and I don’t think I’ve seen so much where gratuity was included in the check. Usually 18%. I actually save money because I tip the after tax total at 20% most of the time. They did this with just my wife and I, not a large group, which is where I’ve seen this practice in the past.
 
Went to West Palm beach / Singer Island area last week and I don’t think I’ve seen so much where gratuity was included in the check. Usually 18%. I actually save money because I tip the after tax total at 20% most of the time. They did this with just my wife and I, not a large group, which is where I’ve seen this practice in the past.
I noticed this the last time I was in the usvi. definitely saved Me a little money as well!
 
Picked up a pizza at a nearby place. You have to order online in advance and then can pick it up. You have to enter your credit card on the site, but they still make you sign when you pick it up.

Get there to get my pizza and the guy tells me that their printer isn't working so they can't print a receipt for me to sign. He tells me I can just take the pizza and it will still batch out at close of day.

I am backing into the exit door to open it since I have both hands on my pizza and the guy shouts at me "wait sir, did you want to leave a tip?"
 
Picked up a pizza at a nearby place. You have to order online in advance and then can pick it up. You have to enter your credit card on the site, but they still make you sign when you pick it up.

Get there to get my pizza and the guy tells me that their printer isn't working so they can't print a receipt for me to sign. He tells me I can just take the pizza and it will still batch out at close of day.

I am backing into the exit door to open it since I have both hands on my pizza and the guy shouts at me "wait sir, did you want to leave a tip?"

That is crazy.....no tipping on any orders you pick up......we usually tip 25 -30 % in cash when my wife and I sit and booze and eat at the bar ( usually because the bartender has sponsored 1 or 2 drinks ).....also still only order pizza over the phone and tip the driver cash when I get the Za.....
 
Picked up a pizza at a nearby place ...

I am backing into the exit door to open it since I have both hands on my pizza and the guy shouts at me "wait sir, did you want to leave a tip?"

I don't how it was in the non-chain family pizza joints in the Northeast (e.g. NYC, Philly, Boston, etc.), but:

In 1990, I worked a summer at a national pizza delivery chain. I was store help, not delivery. We had regular coupons for discounted pizza if customers picked up in the store. Plenty of people took advantage of those coupons. Paying by cash was typical and tips were almost never left on in-store pickups. I'd say "no tips ever", but I might have forgotten some (maybe on big orders). In any case, tips were in no way an expectation if we were handing a pie over the counter.

Expectations are different now. Whether customers play ball or not seems to be an individual decision.
 
Picked up a pizza at a nearby place. You have to order online in advance and then can pick it up. You have to enter your credit card on the site, but they still make you sign when you pick it up.

Get there to get my pizza and the guy tells me that their printer isn't working so they can't print a receipt for me to sign. He tells me I can just take the pizza and it will still batch out at close of day.

I am backing into the exit door to open it since I have both hands on my pizza and the guy shouts at me "wait sir, did you want to leave a tip?"

That is crazy.....no tipping on any orders you pick up......we usually tip 25 -30 % in cash when my wife and I sit and booze and eat at the bar ( usually because the bartender has sponsored 1 or 2 drinks ).....also still only order pizza over the phone and tip the driver cash when I get the Za.....
that’s sitting at the bar And getting free drinks.
 
What about tow truck drivers?

I had a car towed about 80 miles yesterday via AAA roadside. I don't know what the protocol is for tow truck drivers, or if one even exists. So I gave him a $20. He was appreciative, but didn't seem to be surprised to be getting it.
 
What about tow truck drivers?

I had a car towed about 80 miles yesterday via AAA roadside. I don't know what the protocol is for tow truck drivers, or if one even exists. So I gave him a $20. He was appreciative, but didn't seem to be surprised to be getting it.
I’ve always given a 20 every time
 
What about tow truck drivers?

I had a car towed about 80 miles yesterday via AAA roadside. I don't know what the protocol is for tow truck drivers, or if one even exists. So I gave him a $20. He was appreciative, but didn't seem to be surprised to be getting it.

Ive tipped a roadside tow truck or two.

On the flip side - Tow companies who steal peoples cars and hold them for ransom are lower than pond scum imo. Takes a special kind of sociopath to do that kind of work.
 
Sandwich shop in my town - type of place where you walk up, order, get a number, get your own drink, sit down, then they call out your number and you go up to a counter and pick up your food. You get your own refills, there's a bar to the side with extra napkins/forks/crackers/etc. You never see a server except when they holler your # and hand you a tray.

Went there Friday for lunch and the lady that took my order leaned over the counter while I'm doing the card swipe at the little terminal thing. I assume she's watching to see if I tip. When it gets to the tip screen her hand shoots across the counter and she taps 0%, smiles at me and says "don't tip these fools, they mess up too much", then casually taps the little plastic TIPS jar sitting next to her computer and says "if you want to leave a tip you can put it right here".

I didn't mean to, just one of those situations where you feel your mouth start talking and you find yourself knee deep in it without realizing.

Me: What am I tipping in this jar for?
Her: For good service.
Me: No I mean what's the difference between tipping in the jar vs. on the card reader?
Her: The jar is mine.
Me: But you're not the one serving me...you're just taking the order...
Her: Yeah but I got the order exactly like you wanted it.
Me: So you typed in #4 with chips and a tea and I'm supposed to tip for that? His job is to make the sandwich. Her job is to call my number and hand me the tray. I should be tipping him because he's the only one that actually touches my food...
Her: Yeah but I make the same $ as them so we all need the tips. And he messes up the sandwiches too much.
Me: *shook my head, walked off, probably ate a spit sandwich after this*
 
What about tow truck drivers?

I had a car towed about 80 miles yesterday via AAA roadside. I don't know what the protocol is for tow truck drivers, or if one even exists. So I gave him a $20. He was appreciative, but didn't seem to be surprised to be getting it.
Honestly has never really crossed my mind to tip for that. Have been a AAA member for a long time and have had my car towed a handful of times. Most years don't use it all so when I do don't feel any obligation to tip the driver.
 
What about tow truck drivers?

I had a car towed about 80 miles yesterday via AAA roadside. I don't know what the protocol is for tow truck drivers, or if one even exists. So I gave him a $20. He was appreciative, but didn't seem to be surprised to be getting it.
Honestly has never really crossed my mind to tip for that. Have been a AAA member for a long time and have had my car towed a handful of times. Most years don't use it all so when I do don't feel any obligation to tip the driver.

Same, except for yesterday. That's what prompted the question. It's interesting to see what is SOP for others. To me, it's kinda a tipping grey area.

I just figured that the 80 miles and the difficult pickup location, maybe I should. I know it makes zero sense, because the driver is going to get paid by the hour, and one long trip is probably easier than several short ones.
 
I refuse to use delivery services. I'll get in my car and make the 6 minute trek to pick up my Thai food. And I love places that you just pick it up already paid for so there's no talk with the counter. I also skip those with the tip jar.

My opinion is 18-25% tips are for service that a waiter/waitress provides.

If you are taking my order at a cash register or making my food, the labor cost is in the food cost. I may drop a buck or two if I feel like you are being super nice. But if you don't like your job, there are others out there. Move on.
 
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).

I just wonder if people tip more and leave no context. These perceived % ranges are likely lost on the people they intend to incentivize.
You don’t think they can figure out whether they’ve got a good or bad tip or not? It’s pretty easy to tell without even being able to do the math.
*Counter service for carry out = $1-$3
*Counter service for sushi carry out = 20%

Dining In:

8-10% Awful to bad service
10-15% adequate to average service.
15% Above average service. The new floor for tips.
15-20% Good to very good service.
25% and up - exceptional service.

* does my money actually go to the hostess or sushi chefs? It better! :rant:

People that do this, do you do something on the check to annotate your tip with your rating of service? What makes you think the servers think your baseline is whatever you tipped? Or do you actually think the servers even bother doing the % math in their head and instead look at the raw #?


I don’t do or think about any of the things you thought of. If you want to debate if a percentage of the cost of goods sold should not be the main factor I would listen. I can see an argument there.

Im reading your post as if you’re suggesting that there is something weird about tipping more for better service? Among my friends and myself, whom all worked in the service industry this has always been the method. I’m fact, until about 10-15 years ago, 10% was considered the baseline. Now it’s 20%.

So, why do you think it’s weird to tip more for better service? (If that’s not what you’re saying then apologies).
10%? What country do you live in?

In order for me to leave somebody 10%, they would have to have have been egregiously bad. Waited 15 minutes to greet us, not bring silverware, get the food wrong, etc. I wouldn’t even consider giving less than that. I’ve probably given somebody 10% tip 3 times in my life. They weren’t new. They weren’t overworked. They were experienced and they just plain sucked/didn’t care.

I’d say the other 80 percent of the times I tipped at minimum 20% and rounded up. We generally get good servers or they’re new and we make it work.

The other 19.999% of the time I tipped obscenely high. These are the pros, pros. Huge parties and everything came out perfect. A true culinary maestro.
Despite the good advice in this thread I simply can’t break my tipping guilt. Went to Firehouse subs yesterday for lunch, when they turned that little screen around with the tip options on there this thread ran through my head. I stared at the screen for probably 15 secs (girl working the counter probably thought I was nuts) then pressed the 20%. I hated myself for it but at the same time was like “that $2.50 means nothing to you. Don’t be a ****.”

Would you do the same at McDonalds or Arbys?
 
I’ve been in the industry forever. This ain’t happening. Few dollars, sure. But not 20% or even 10%

Tell you what, though. I worked at a national chain place in the mid-90s (since you're in the industry: a Darden property) and the people packing and bagging take-out orders were definitely complaining about a few dollars on, say, $40-$50 orders.

This is where individual restaurant dynamics can come into play. At our place, new/inexperienced wait staff would be put on take-out-prep duty during busy shifts, otherwise the bartender(s) would take care of them. With that set-up, there was sometimes resentment from the take-out person: wait staff saw it as losing out on the money they'd have made that night with a proper 3-4 table station or an expediter** shift; bartenders sometimes saw it as PITA overhead work that got in the way of taking care of their main bar duties [they had to leave the bar area to pull food, pack & bag, etc.].

Conversely, a few of our local Chinese-cuisine places do so much take-out that they have people dedicated to working the phones and prepping take-out orders. Sometimes it's elderly employees (family sometimes for sure) that don't need to be walking a floor all night but can handle counter work. Sometimes it's teens/college kids (sometimes also family) that can't sell alcohol yet and so won't be waiting tables anyway. At places like that, you can get away with dropping $3 on a $50 order -- the overall ethic surrounding the take-out transaction is entirely different.


** Expediters were tipped out at our restaurant. Usually just staffed during busy shifts.

Are people bagging and packing making the same hourly wage as servers? If so they should be sharing tips just like they do with bus boys and bartenders. If not they know what their job is coming in.

My daughter works as a hostess and she packs to go food, she is in HS and makes 12 bucks an hour. The servers get about 3 bucks and hour and have a much tougher job than bagging a carry out order.
 
I wish you could take tips back. I went through the Burgerville drive thru and ordered a Colossal but with no cheese. I get to the window and pay and did a 15% tip. I get home, and there's ****ing cheese on the burger.
 

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