Why not consider using actual game stats of either week 18 if the game is not resumed or the game itself if it is resumed? Then at least you are ensured of getting a game played for the player in question.
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Fantasy Football Implications from MNF Game (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dwayne Hoover
- Start date
Deepster
Footballguy
Fair point. Thanks for the suggestion.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
......and I would fart on you on my way out
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think what people aren't willing to admit (since we're all on a fantasy football message board) is that fantasy football is like 90% luck - we don't control what happens and bad beats happen often. This was a bad beat - accept it and move on.
That's just my view, every league can handle it as they see fit of course.
That's just my view, every league can handle it as they see fit of course.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Good Post SB22
Dwayne Hoover
Footballguy
Unlucky draw with weather? Player gets hurt in practice prior to game?
Why do you have to assign a point value? You can just use week 18 stats. Then you get the point range potential and an actual game played. Plus you are not assigning a known point value which can be deemed someone choosing it because it benefits them (knowing they will win or knowing they will lose)
FWIW, I'm Commish & in champion game. Was losing by 32 in full ppr with Burrow & Chase to his done. Reached out with 3 thoughts Tues AM to other owner. 1.Combine pot, split most, leave 10%. If game is played add those stats and winner takes the remainder. 2.Combine, split 50/50. 3.Let the NFL & the host site (MFL) decide. He chose option 1 without hesitation and graciously. Gave our secondary playoff teams these same options & have not heard what they would like to do yet. League is 25+ years strong, we are both OG's, so this was a pretty easy decision process. Simply put, neither one of us felt like having that much money riding on a game that felt pretty unimportant in the scheme of things.
There’s a guy in one of my leagues that was down 10 points with Burrow and Diggs still to go. It doesn’t affect me personally, and I am not the commissioner, but if I were it’d be real tough for me to look at him and say,”welp, them’s the breaks. Better luck next year.”
This is not akin to a player getting hurt in the first quarter and missing the remainder of the game. This is something completely unprecedented. What makes it tough is each situation is different. In another league the player who was down in the championship has already agreed to concede. However, it was VERY unlikely he was coming back. The aforementioned league above is a completely different beast because that guy was heavily favored and probably would’ve ended up winning by 30+.
This is not akin to a player getting hurt in the first quarter and missing the remainder of the game. This is something completely unprecedented. What makes it tough is each situation is different. In another league the player who was down in the championship has already agreed to concede. However, it was VERY unlikely he was coming back. The aforementioned league above is a completely different beast because that guy was heavily favored and probably would’ve ended up winning by 30+.
So why not use week 18 stats? They are unknown and it will be an actual game played. Seems much more fair then zeros or an average that everyone already knows
I have one local league that decided to split the pot between the two teams in the championship game. Then both owners donated their share to Mr. Hamlin's charity. Granted it's not a big money league,but every owner just wanted to get past this and remember the reason why we had to discuss other options in the first place.
The problem with using averages is it doesn’t take some relevant factors into account. Things like matchup, how the player is trending lately with his stats, weather, injuries, etc.
Just subbing in week 18 stats for both teams sounds good on the surface, but does Baltimore have any reason to start their regular starters if they aren’t making up the Bills-Bengals game? Again doesn’t take into other factors, too, but I think it’s less of an issue than it is with averages.
For me, I think splitting the difference between first and second based on % likelihood to have won makes most sense. Assuming they don’t make up the game. If they end up playing the game in week 19, then just sub in the scores back to week 17.
Just subbing in week 18 stats for both teams sounds good on the surface, but does Baltimore have any reason to start their regular starters if they aren’t making up the Bills-Bengals game? Again doesn’t take into other factors, too, but I think it’s less of an issue than it is with averages.
For me, I think splitting the difference between first and second based on % likelihood to have won makes most sense. Assuming they don’t make up the game. If they end up playing the game in week 19, then just sub in the scores back to week 17.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The effect is the same whether people want to admit that or not.
fightingillini
Footballguy
Agree.....the guy with Diggs and Burrow is like a 95% chance to win. I was in my league's championship, up 15......opponent has Singletary and I have Chase. CBS had me as a 92% favorite. My opponent conceded even though I don't have an issue with playing Week 18 as Week 17. No way you wait until after Week 18......good chance the Bills and Bengals will rest players and have nothing to play for since their seeding could be locked in.
heckmanm
Footballguy
One of my leagues, the 2 guys in the championship had 5 players combined. They proposed a 50/50 split before any of the officers had even started talking about it.
Other league, one guy had a 50+ lead vs Allen/Diggs. The guy with Allen/Diggs will not accept using their averages (since they've combined for 50+ 3 times this year), and the guy with the lead won't agree to a 50/50 split. For now we're waiting for the NFL to decide. Really glad I'm not the commish anymore - I take care of the website (MFL) but not the decision-making. I think the commish is leaning toward using week 18 for Bengals/Bills players unless the NFL reschedules the CIN/BUF matchup.
Other league, one guy had a 50+ lead vs Allen/Diggs. The guy with Allen/Diggs will not accept using their averages (since they've combined for 50+ 3 times this year), and the guy with the lead won't agree to a 50/50 split. For now we're waiting for the NFL to decide. Really glad I'm not the commish anymore - I take care of the website (MFL) but not the decision-making. I think the commish is leaning toward using week 18 for Bengals/Bills players unless the NFL reschedules the CIN/BUF matchup.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
No. I agree it stinks, but I play fantasy baseball too and this wouldn’t even be a discussion. I know there are more games but sometimes it does come down to Sunday night.
One week ends when the next week begins
Those aren't the only two options. You can use week 18 stats if the game is not resumed. Then you get an actual game played that nobody knows the outcome of yet.
heckmanm
Footballguy
The effect here is more like every player on both teams getting hurt in the first quarter (well, every starter anyway)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes, agreed. Does that change what I said?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You two were having an interesting debate I felt and then it got pulled off the rails.
I agree with SB22, taking the week's prior stats is absurd, Assuming the Finals were a 1 week event, you're talking about taking the stats from the Semi-Finals?
I can't even wrap my head around that
Johnny, you would quit a league over what specifically in regards to this topic?
We are treating that situation like it would be for week 12 going into week 13. The team can replace the injured or rested player with someone off his bench playing in that game. Just like you would during any other week of the season. Yes it's unfortunate that he only has two team's worth of players available but it's still better than a zero.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If he didn't get his way, he would quit.
heckmanm
Footballguy
I guess only in terms of the breadth of the effect. If you happen to have the one guy that gets hurt in your lineup, then it's the same regardless of what happens to the other 80-some players' stats for that game.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
The main downside that I see with using Week 18 is could set some kind of precedent that could be pointed to in future years. Hope we never see something like this again on the field, but good to have guidelines in place if it does.
To the extent rulebooks are not clear on the topic, I do think need to be clear whether this just applies in Championship game, or other weeks. Also, distinctions between games suspended after kickoff versus postponed to another week prior to kickoff.
I think there may be limited opposition to using Week 18 points for Bengals and Bills this year because we were expecting Week 17 to be a high-scoring game. I could see situation where team may have been playing a great defense (e.g., San Fran) in Week 17 and getting a benefit, if you want to call it that, with lighter defense in Week 18.
But if Rulebook clearly spells out how to handle situation in advance, then even if some kind of benefit, can just point to the rule.
To the extent rulebooks are not clear on the topic, I do think need to be clear whether this just applies in Championship game, or other weeks. Also, distinctions between games suspended after kickoff versus postponed to another week prior to kickoff.
I think there may be limited opposition to using Week 18 points for Bengals and Bills this year because we were expecting Week 17 to be a high-scoring game. I could see situation where team may have been playing a great defense (e.g., San Fran) in Week 17 and getting a benefit, if you want to call it that, with lighter defense in Week 18.
But if Rulebook clearly spells out how to handle situation in advance, then even if some kind of benefit, can just point to the rule.
joey
Footballguy
In 2 of my leagues where I was either a) in the championship game and the score was very close, or b) I commish the league and the score was very close, I proposed a split of the 1st and 2nd place prizes, and in both cases, the team that “knew” they were going to lose said “no thanks, the other team was going to win it all, so it’s not fair letting me split the pot. I’ll happily take 2nd place”.
I think the real people involved used avg or projected points in their heads and resigned to losing. We all do it every week going into MNF up by a few points but the other team has a couple of studs. We mentally move on to next week and take the L. neither 2nd place team wanted to win by whichever way the hosting site arbitrarily decided to score the game (some use the partial game stats, some zero out the score).
I think/hope that private leagues all go some friendly route and I assume many will have no drama at all and just end the season with a “logical” (likely) outcome. It’s the big contests and site-commished sites where it feels like most of the drama will exist.
I think the real people involved used avg or projected points in their heads and resigned to losing. We all do it every week going into MNF up by a few points but the other team has a couple of studs. We mentally move on to next week and take the L. neither 2nd place team wanted to win by whichever way the hosting site arbitrarily decided to score the game (some use the partial game stats, some zero out the score).
I think/hope that private leagues all go some friendly route and I assume many will have no drama at all and just end the season with a “logical” (likely) outcome. It’s the big contests and site-commished sites where it feels like most of the drama will exist.
zamboni
Footballguy
I hadn’t thought of this. It would delay the title crown, but would at least reflect actual performance and all the Bengals/Bills should be playing unless injured in week 18.
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So what is different in that then just getting a zero based on official stats or any other game throughout the year? Those happen all the time in an NFL season. It's not really a problem based on using week 18 stats or the actual game stats if the game is resumed and not cancelled.
However, we did think of that scenario and have a provision that if a player sits in week 18 (inactive) that you can substitute for them just like you would in any other week and use those points to count for week 17.
HomerSimpson
Footballguy
What sucks is it was MNF. If it was a 10am game on Sunday. I could text my commish and be like “hey something crazy happened can you swap Allen for my backup QB” and he would probly be cool with it. But now we already know that my backups score would get me the win. It’s the perfect storm of fantasy WTF.
psychobillies
Footballguy
Right. What's the hurry anyway? If you go this route, and a guy gets hurt next week, make sure that it is understood that it will be treated like an injury on the first play, and it's just bad luck.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I had this idea as well (doesn't affect my league, but this is an interesting puzzle to solve). You'd be guaranteed both teams would be going all out and have everything to play for.
Runnyb
Footballguy
I am commish past 16 years and was in the championship. I was leading by about 30pts and had Burrow and Gabe Davis going. He had Allen and Chase going. The odds were in my favor (roughly 70% chance to win at the start of the game). Decided to split the $2k pot and just leave it alone and forget it. Could have been a whole lot worse.
I mainly look at this from a national contest angle but even in a local type league I prefer hard rules that don't bend. So to me this does in fact fall under the category of tough injury break, horrible weather event, etc,etc.
In the first year of the FFPC a hurricane hit Houston and cancelled the Texans vs Ravens game, was moved to a different week. That was back when waivers only ran on Friday(I think, maybe Wedensday), game got cancelled the next day and my only D was the Ravens. I assumed an accommodation would be made for an unusual event and was furious when my attempts to get waivers open to pick up a D or have the stats for that game added retroactively when it was actually played. When that game was eventually played the Ravens scored 9 points, I took a zero at D that week and missed the playoffs by 2 points. And you know what? The FFPC was 100% right and I've said this numerous times. Rules are rules and when you start bending them, most especially when you are able to directly see who it might benefit that's a horrible slippery slope to go down.
Some people bring up some rules changes brought along in-season by COVID as bending the rules but a major distinct difference exists. The main rule change brought by COVID was simply adding a second waiver run. The major difference is that is a not direct benefit to particular team(s). The operators of the contest can't play favorites, see who it helps, who it does not. It's a rule change made available to all.
So to me for the national type contests it should be really simple but honestly I'd feel the same way in any league, even a local. Which to me is even if the game is continued another week it does not count. If the game is never continued and the NFL deems the game a no contest and does not officially award stats from that game then the stats don't count. If the NFL labels it a complete game then the stats count as is.(which so far is NOT what the FFPC is doing and I think they are handling this poorly)
To me it's really that simple. Now if anyone in a local type league impacted said to the commish go ahead and let my opponent use week 18 or whatever that's fine but these type of decisions should not voted on or decided by the commissioner IMO as you now get into popularity contest, personal bias, whatever. Rules are rules. That's how I like my fantasy leagues run.
In the first year of the FFPC a hurricane hit Houston and cancelled the Texans vs Ravens game, was moved to a different week. That was back when waivers only ran on Friday(I think, maybe Wedensday), game got cancelled the next day and my only D was the Ravens. I assumed an accommodation would be made for an unusual event and was furious when my attempts to get waivers open to pick up a D or have the stats for that game added retroactively when it was actually played. When that game was eventually played the Ravens scored 9 points, I took a zero at D that week and missed the playoffs by 2 points. And you know what? The FFPC was 100% right and I've said this numerous times. Rules are rules and when you start bending them, most especially when you are able to directly see who it might benefit that's a horrible slippery slope to go down.
Some people bring up some rules changes brought along in-season by COVID as bending the rules but a major distinct difference exists. The main rule change brought by COVID was simply adding a second waiver run. The major difference is that is a not direct benefit to particular team(s). The operators of the contest can't play favorites, see who it helps, who it does not. It's a rule change made available to all.
So to me for the national type contests it should be really simple but honestly I'd feel the same way in any league, even a local. Which to me is even if the game is continued another week it does not count. If the game is never continued and the NFL deems the game a no contest and does not officially award stats from that game then the stats don't count. If the NFL labels it a complete game then the stats count as is.(which so far is NOT what the FFPC is doing and I think they are handling this poorly)
To me it's really that simple. Now if anyone in a local type league impacted said to the commish go ahead and let my opponent use week 18 or whatever that's fine but these type of decisions should not voted on or decided by the commissioner IMO as you now get into popularity contest, personal bias, whatever. Rules are rules. That's how I like my fantasy leagues run.
Or you could let them substitute a player from his roster in for their place just like it would be if you were going from week 12 to week 13. If he doesn't have a player playing then he is SOL but at least he might be able to have someone available.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Could open a can of worms though if you let them substitute an injured a Bill/Bengal for another player playing that week. If you started singletary, he gets injured next week, are you going to let the team start Derrick Henry (if the titans make it)?
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Looks like Yahoo is treating the Week 17 results as provisionally final. That means they locked in the points that had been accrued in the game to the point of Hamlin's injury and crowned champions based on that. But they say they reserve the right to go back and change them if the game is finished/replayed. They also say that commissioners can go in and manually adjust scores if they want to
Has to be someone that wasn't already in your week 17 lineup (although Henry is an interesting example since he didn't play week 17) or you can simplify it more and say it has to be someone from Buffalo or Cincy
jabarony
Footballguy
As some have noted - FFPC wants doesn't want to delay anything. They want to get the payouts made out so their customers can use it for playoff contests entries.
And they probably don't want to do the leg work to edit their scoring software.
Lame.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Leave it to @Joe Bryant to make the most important point in this Washington Post article on how fantasy leagues are handling the Hamlin situation:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Are the Bills gonna play in week 18?
Travieso
Footballguy
Apologies if this was discussed earlier - dynasty league questions more about draft pick order than $. If u split the pot how are you determining who gets the better pick in next year draft. Splitting pot doesn’t answer that. Coin flip? To me that is part of this. Not just the $
I assume so. Is there talk that they are not? I suppose if that happens you can also treat it like an inactive and allow the owner to put in a substitute off his roster that wasn't in his week 17 lineup already
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
instead of a coin toss...
or a coin toss is fine too. no wrong answer there imo, whatever the two teams can agree on amicably rather than commish making a decision is probably better.
Doug B
Footballguy
In the home private league I mentioned a few pages back:
We split the pot. My title game opponent was ahead at the time of MNF game's suspension, so he is essentially the league champion for draft order purposes. He'll draft last next year, and I'll draft second to last.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
Exactly what we did. Easy peasy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
We simply chopped and left the Title-Winner vacant or if you want to look at it as "Co-Champs"
Is that the lazy route ye speak of? I won't be salty if you say yes, just wanted clarity on some of the discussions I've been reading
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Thinking about this more, the reason Singletary was probably in your lineup was because Henry was sitting week 17 because that game didn't matter so maybe it is justified to allow Henry to replace an injured Singletary.
theplayer11
Footballguy
it's called having an opinion. If someone thinks a league is choosing a ridiculous way in resoling this, they can say so. This is a discussion forum. So, no everyone doesn't have to think the same way.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ok
The league where I’m in the championship, against the commish, he conceded. The league where I am commish we’re using average for Burrow, chase and Boyd unless they play.
