Favre...I beg you (1 Viewer)

[Phurfur]

Turns out he wants to be sure his arm is up to it so he doesn't have to play in pain or let the team down.

Bull.He wants lots of money.He wants lots of press coverage.He wants to practice a little as possible.He wants a guaranteed starting job.He wants a ready-made excuse to avoid criticism (the health of his arm).He wants the streak alive.

Yep, nothing but love here. Love, love, and more love. No hate. Got it now, moving on.

and what part of that post do you disagree with? Maybe your Prejudice for Favre is getting in your way? There is an obvious lesson here!

 

[fatness]

for the record, i dont hate favre. but im watching sportscenter this morning and they're doin their "favre update" and i'm thinkin how ridiculous this is.

it takes up too much airtime. why doesnt he just make a ####ing decision? he comin off like a drama queen.

Norman Chad has a thorough Favre update, from 2006 until today

 

[ookook]

Turns out he wants to be sure his arm is up to it so he doesn't have to play in pain or let the team down.

Bull.He wants lots of money.

He wants lots of press coverage.

He wants to practice a little as possible.

He wants a guaranteed starting job.

He wants a ready-made excuse to avoid criticism (the health of his arm).

He wants the streak alive.

Yep, nothing but love here. Love, love, and more love. No hate. Got it now, moving on.

and what part of that post do you disagree with? Maybe your Prejudice for Favre is getting in your way? There is an obvious lesson here!

Okay, I'll bite.I will rate each on my agreement on a 1 to 10 scale where '1' indicates strongly disagree a '10' strongly agree.

1. He wants lots of money.

7: But so does almost every NFL player and non-player I have ever met, so is not very discriminating. In response to Favre in particular, his decisions have not seemed very money oriented to me. (e.g., Offering to take less money to sign Moss)

2. He wants lots of press coverage.

3: Here is where I most strongly disagree with most people. I think he tolerates the media and tries to use them to get what he wants (e.g., release last year) but does not desire the press attention for its own sake very much. Almost every claim otherwise lacks much support IMHO. With that said, we probably all do to some extent and he is probably not an exception. I still believe he would rather not had the media filming him working out at the HS where he always had and not have had to answer questions about the decision until after it was made. But I sincerely doubt he is dragging it out to generate more, it is just an uninetended consequence.:

3. He wants to practice a little as possible.

5: Not really sure. I have heard mixed stories here, although most veterans seem to feel this way, so I am not sure he is much more or less than many other vets that tries to limit this. So I will go middling here.

4. He wants a guaranteed starting job.

8: This seems very likely to me. I assume there had been some reassurance of this. Whether it was solicited or unsolicited, I know not. But I imagine it was understood there would be no real competition.

5. He wants a ready-made excuse to avoid criticism (the health of his arm).

1. I find this one very distasteful and shows the "bias" (since I am not allowed to say hate). I see no reason to think he is sandbagging. I know when I had perfed my MCL playing football I was VERY apprehensive about when I would play again or making any cuts. It is perfectly reasonable to not be sure after playing (poorly) in pain and having recent surgery. To say it is probably sandbagging is really choosing an unlikely explanation with a low baserate about a guy with no evidence of it in the past. Bad form, really, but not one of the more common criticisms.

6. He wants the streak alive.

4. Not sure about this one, but I suspect it is that he has a tough time walking away from the game and that riding a tractor was less interesting. I think he is proud of his streak, but I not think adding to it is involved much in his decision to play with the Vikings or not. For example, proving to people he can still play or winning another SB I woudl guess are like 5 times more imporant than the streak we fans talk about but he never brings up.

And to add one:

7. He is not sure whether his arm is up to playing another season as he is still experiencing some pain after the surgery.

8: We have a winner. This seems very likely to me, as I believe any reasonable person having played the end of last season in pain, having had recent surgery, and if still experiencing some pain would feel this way.

 

[ookook]

I do realize that many people have a negative opinion based on being tired of hearing about it. I am tired of it too.

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

If he does not decide before camp, or if it comes out that he knew his decision the whole time and was dissimulating, I will be disappointed. That would not be the media, but him.

Basically, if he cannot give word before camp, he should say he is done for the season.

 

[fatness]

2. He wants lots of press coverage.

3: Here is where I most strongly disagree with most people. I think he tolerates the media and tries to use them to get what he wants (e.g., release last year) but does not desire the press attention for its own sake very much. Almost every claim otherwise lacks much support IMHO. With that said, we probably all do to some extent and he is probably not an exception. I still believe he would rather not had the media filming him working out at the HS where he always had and not have had to answer questions about the decision until after it was made. But I sincerely doubt he is dragging it out to generate more, it is just an uninetended consequence.:

Favre to do Sears commercials

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could be paid handsomely for being indecisive? Brett Favre is turning it into a cottage industry.

Besides still not disclosing whether he'll be back for another NFL season, the potential future quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings has a commercial coming out in September that mocks his wavering ways. And no, it's not for Waffle House.

Favre will appear in a Sears ad where a sales clerk tells him about a service the store has "to help guys who have a tough time making decisions."

Says Favre: "Yeah, I hate those guys."

 

[ookook]

2. He wants lots of press coverage.

3: Here is where I most strongly disagree with most people. I think he tolerates the media and tries to use them to get what he wants (e.g., release last year) but does not desire the press attention for its own sake very much. Almost every claim otherwise lacks much support IMHO. With that said, we probably all do to some extent and he is probably not an exception. I still believe he would rather not had the media filming him working out at the HS where he always had and not have had to answer questions about the decision until after it was made. But I sincerely doubt he is dragging it out to generate more, it is just an uninetended consequence.:

Favre to do Sears commercials

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could be paid handsomely for being indecisive? Brett Favre is turning it into a cottage industry.

Besides still not disclosing whether he'll be back for another NFL season, the potential future quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings has a commercial coming out in September that mocks his wavering ways. And no, it's not for Waffle House.

Favre will appear in a Sears ad where a sales clerk tells him about a service the store has "to help guys who have a tough time making decisions."

Says Favre: "Yeah, I hate those guys."

The motivation here would seem that of any athelete who agrees to do endorsements: easy money. Not media attention for the sake of the attention.

 

[fatness]

The motivation here would seem that of any athelete who agrees to do endorsements: easy money. Not media attention for the sake of the attention.

It's making money by drawing more attention to the amount of attention he has already drawn for his "indecision".

 

[ookook]

The motivation here would seem that of any athelete who agrees to do endorsements: easy money. Not media attention for the sake of the attention.

It's making money by drawing more attention to the amount of attention he has already drawn for his "indecision".

Agreed, although I am not sure of the relevance to "wants a lot of press coverage" versus "gets a lot" or "gets paid to capitalize upon"...

 

[Doug Drinen]

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

Speaking only for myself....It's not the un-retiring every July that bothers me. It's the fake retiring every February.

I understand feeling different in July than you do in February. That's completely understandable. But after playing for 15 years, don't you have to eventually have enough self knowledge to be able to peek ahead a few months and realize that you might change your mind? In March of 2008, if he had simply said, "I'm beat. Right now I feel like I don't ever want to touch a football ever again. Talk to me in a few months," we're not having this conversation. Instead, he started weeping and swore he'd never play again. Then in early 2009, even after he knew what had happened the previous year, he decided to look straight into the camera and swear that he would not change his mind this time.

I don't understand how you can look at that and not conclude that he likes the attention.

 

[Das Boot]

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Favre is the only one, out of thousands of players, to have difficulty with his decisions regarding his playing future year after year?

 

[bcr8f]

Elway said it seems like he's been retiring for a decade.

 

[ookook]

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Favre is the only one, out of thousands of players, to have difficulty with his decisions regarding his playing future year after year?

I think he is exceptionally indecisive about what his life will be like after football. Very few top QBs get to leave on their own terms when tehy are still capable of playing. Most retire when injured. But lots move to new teams after they are passed their prime and the situations often get sticky. This adds lots of factors to the equation.But the last two years have been sort of different than the previous. Originally, at GB I thought he started trying use it as leverage to force management to bring in better FAs.I think his first retirement was sincere, for pretty much the reasons he stated at the time.Then he changed his mind and things got complicated. Clearly, at some point after changing his mind he was using the media to try to pressure the Packers into releasing him.Yeah, it is now de facto that in these situations the press releases always read the same for all players "at this time I cannot conceive...blah, blah, blah". He said it this year, but probably was not all that sincere. THe Jets had moved on. The coach was fired and they were going with a new offense and offensive coordinator. He retired from the Jets so he could better ask for his immiediate release. Whic they gave him, no hard feelings.But to play for the Vikings or not required successful surgery and rehab. He clearly would like to, but is undecided.Do I care when he decides? Not really, as long as it is before training camp.But "retirement" is just a contractual option used by players like "buying out your contract". Really means little else to me.So, why is he so much more indecisive than others? I guess he is a flake that has a hard time deciding to retire. We knew that. BTW, just a reminder, I think the Vikings should not try to sign him. But if I am Favre and a playoff-caliber team comes courting me for the 2nd year in a row, and I am recovered and think I can stay healthy, go for it.If I had to bet, I would say he made his decision a short while ago and the plan is to announce it when he comes to training camp.If it is not resolved this weekend, the Vikings should decide for him.

 

[ookook]

Among the MANY resons I think this has nothing to do with craving the media attention, but rather is a tough decision when you played (poorly) hurt and just had surgery, is that it just makes him look bad. Each time he appears to waffle.

He is not stupid and knows this; I beleive he is media savvy. Nor do I think he just cannot help himself. His delay again has made him look bad. It would be pathological to plan to get bad public relations this way on purpose and I do not believe he is that. So I think his motives are otherwise.

I think if he had not been injured last year, he would be jumping to go to the Vikings. Then again, if he had not been injured the Jets probably make the playoffs, Mangenious has a job, and Favre doesn't retire this last time.

 

[ookook]

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

Speaking only for myself....It's not the un-retiring every July that bothers me. It's the fake retiring every February.

I understand feeling different in July than you do in February. That's completely understandable. But after playing for 15 years, don't you have to eventually have enough self knowledge to be able to peek ahead a few months and realize that you might change your mind? In March of 2008, if he had simply said, "I'm beat. Right now I feel like I don't ever want to touch a football ever again. Talk to me in a few months," we're not having this conversation. Instead, he started weeping and swore he'd never play again. Then in early 2009, even after he knew what had happened the previous year, he decided to look straight into the camera and swear that he would not change his mind this time.

I don't understand how you can look at that and not conclude that he likes the attention.

Well, he has retired twice. Do you believe the first time he was lying or sincere tehn changed his mind?

 

[ookook]

It seems to me that presuming that because the media covers it ad nauseum that that is why Favre does something is a logical fallacy known as Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

That is, assuming that sequence indicates causality is the mistake made by this Latin-named fallacy. Translated, the name means "after, therefore caused by."

An example is: My cousin drank the town water and got leukemia. It must be the town water that caused her illness. The sequence of drinking town water and subsequently falling ill from leukemia does not in and of itself lead to a valid conclusion that the water was the causal agent in the illness. Thus, this is a cause and effect fallacy.

 

[fatness]

It seems to me that presuming that because the media covers it ad nauseum that that is why Favre does something is a logical fallacy known as Post hoc ergo propter hoc.That is, assuming that sequence indicates causality is the mistake made by this Latin-named fallacy. Translated, the name means "after, therefore caused by."

Hannah Montana isn't' really popular then. It's just that darned media coverage. Sorry, I'm not buying that. When people, Favre included, seek media coverage and then get it, you can't say the fault is with the media.Hannah Mississippi works the media like a well-honed tool.

 

[bcr8f]

But I also think he has earned the right to decide anytime before training camp. Sometimes decisions take time, especially if it si based on how rehab goes.

Speaking only for myself....It's not the un-retiring every July that bothers me. It's the fake retiring every February.

I understand feeling different in July than you do in February. That's completely understandable. But after playing for 15 years, don't you have to eventually have enough self knowledge to be able to peek ahead a few months and realize that you might change your mind? In March of 2008, if he had simply said, "I'm beat. Right now I feel like I don't ever want to touch a football ever again. Talk to me in a few months," we're not having this conversation. Instead, he started weeping and swore he'd never play again. Then in early 2009, even after he knew what had happened the previous year, he decided to look straight into the camera and swear that he would not change his mind this time.

I don't understand how you can look at that and not conclude that he likes the attention.

Well, he has retired twice. Do you believe the first time he was lying or sincere tehn changed his mind?

Or he's always wanted to play for Brad Childress.

 

[Doug Drinen]

It seems to me that presuming that because the media covers it ad nauseum that that is why Favre does something is a logical fallacy known as Post hoc ergo propter hoc.That is, assuming that sequence indicates causality is the mistake made by this Latin-named fallacy. Translated, the name means "after, therefore caused by." An example is: My cousin drank the town water and got leukemia. It must be the town water that caused her illness. The sequence of drinking town water and subsequently falling ill from leukemia does not in and of itself lead to a valid conclusion that the water was the causal agent in the illness. Thus, this is a cause and effect fallacy.

I think the difference of opinion here is that you see Favre's behavior as drinking town water, and a lot of other people would compare it more to working in a coal mine and eating raw asbestos for breakfast every morning.We'll never really know what Favre's true motivations are. You are absolutely right to note that one does not strictly need to invoke a need for attention to explain Favre's actions. Nonetheless, for a lot of people it is the most logical explanation for them.

 

[Ray_T]

well, if Farve takes his time, he may lose his starting gig to Michael Vick.... I'd say the chances of this are low (<10%) but wouldnt that be a story!!!

 

[ookook]

You may be right Doug. I think there is much to be critical of Favre for (throwing INTs like they are going out of style, having a big ego), I think that although he uses the media he does not seek the attention for its own sake.

I think the issue genuinely is being afraid his arm is not up to it following the injury and surgery.

If it had been perfectly healthy, I believe he would have signed with Minny ASAP. It is what he wanted last year too.

I therefore conclude the delay is primarily due to health concerns not media attention generated by delaying.

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

 

[renesauz]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

 

[ScottyFargo]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

He was the same guy then, now his fans are just having to see him in the harsh light of day. His legacy as a football player is the same regardless of how far the "hero worship" has fallen. Your definition of legacy is hindered by perception. No matter how you percieve him as a person, you can't take away what he did on the field.

 

[Phurfur]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

He was the same guy then, now his fans are just having to see him in the harsh light of day. His legacy as a football player is the same regardless of how far the "hero worship" has fallen. Your definition of legacy is hindered by perception. No matter how you percieve him as a person, you can't take away what he did on the field.

I agree, 1 SB in 18 years.

 

[ookook]

(1) I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

(3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

He was the same guy then, now his fans are just having to see him in the harsh light of day. His legacy as a football player is the same regardless of how far the "hero worship" has fallen. Your definition of legacy is hindered by perception. No matter how you percieve him as a person, you can't take away what he did on the field.

I agree, 1 SB in 18 years.

1 SB victory, 2 appearances, ya. Could be worse, right? Marino didn't get a SB win, people still thought he had a good arm.

 

[Myasis Dragons]

Face facts. He will play for all 32 NFL teams before he retires at the age of 75. If you don't get him this year, don't worry. Your turn will come.

 

[Phurfur]

(1) I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

Sorry but I don't care how many tds, yds, ints, etc. he has, the only thing important to me is SB wins. I think feeling this is my right as a football fan. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you but I missed the part where you were anointed god.

 

[Reaper]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

I may be in the minority but, I"M A NEW BRETT FAVRE FAN....

As a Jets fan and an east coaster, I really didn't see him too much over those 18 years. Yeah, the MNF games and a lot of highlighted games but, not the Saturation I'm sure others, especially in the NFC had over those years...

I thought last year was "Fun". The Jets were a 4 win team the year before and for a moment there looked like a team with a chance beating Tenn and the Pats in big games and looking good doing it - they had upside IMO if healthy...And, personally I blame coaching a lot more than Favre for the fall and that can be debated for sure...

And surely, some media accounts will talk about what a bad teammate he was... But, IMO there's a lot more unwritten and not highlighted stuff that was Good to Great with him here - Take Dustin Keller for example - This guy as a rook caught TD passes from Brett Freaking Favre!!!!!!, ask him if it was fun - Cotchery said it was the most fun of his career.... Mike Westoff said he came back from surgery early to work with Favre and would have been 100% for keeping Favre another year....

But, none of that is spotlighted.. Only a Disgruntled Thomas Jones interviewed after the season melted down gets some quotes for all to see.....

No doubt in my mind, if my team didn't have a QB, I'd take Brett Favre right now and roll with it.

Legacy Smegacy - When it's all over, Brett Favre will be the Risky Gunslinger who loved the game, couldn't give it up and Won a Super Bowl...

THANK YOU BRETT FAVRE....

- A new Fan.

 

[MOAT]

Back to the thread topic, if he wins with Minny and takes them to the playoffs again, his legacy will be (a) ironman, (b) thowing lots more INTS, © throwing bullets. No change.

If he loses, he will be remembered for playing poorly when he should have called it quits, whether he had "been indecisive" or not.

Indisputable fact:Favre had LEGIONS of fans 4 years ago.

INDISPUTABLE FACT:

Many of his fans are no longer fans, and can't stand him. (Argue this all you want, but there are several good examples right in this thread!)

IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF:

His legacy has therefore, been tarnished.

We can argue whether said tarnishment is permanent, or mere surface rust easily cleared away (someday in the future)....but please, for the love of all things football....STOP DENYING THAT THE LEGACY IS ISN'T EFFECTED!

I don't get it. Isn't it HIS legacy? I am continually trying to teach my kids that if you live your life to please others you will wind up disappointed. Why shouldn't Favre handle his career as he sees fit? I honestly don't see how this impacts any fans other than those of the Vikings. And then, only minimally. I understand being curious but there are way too many fans worked up into a frenzy over this. In the long run, it just doesn't matter.In my opinion, anyone that doesn't see Favre as one of the all time greats at the QB position is just plain wrong. IRONCLAD UNAVOIDABLE PROOF: He will be a first ballot hall of famer and is seen as such by his peers, the media, coaches, and fans.

That said, all fans are entitled to their opinion. This is mine regardless of the outcome with the Vikings.

 

[Doug Drinen]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

Despite apparently stalking you for a couple of days in here, I pretty much agree with the above. In particular, I think you're right that what he does on the field this year will have an effect on how this episode will be remembered.I'd only add that Legacy Tarnishment [TM] isn't a binary concept. There are degrees. Ultimately, I think Favre's Legacy Tarnishment Index will probably be similar to Barry Sanders': after a few years have passed it won't generally be part of the conversation about him, but some people will continue to bring it up.

 

[ookook]

(1) I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

Sorry but I don't care how many tds, yds, ints, etc. he has, the only thing important to me is SB wins. I think feeling this is my right as a football fan. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you but I missed the part where you were anointed god.

You may think what you want, but few would agree that a career is well summarized by the number of Superbowls.And the God crack is way out of line based on:I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?Your definition of "be excellent" is a lot different than mine. Please now creatively define that as well for me.

 

[Not Sure]

(1) I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

Sorry but I don't care how many tds, yds, ints, etc. he has, the only thing important to me is SB wins. I think feeling this is my right as a football fan. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you but I missed the part where you were anointed god.

You may think what you want, but few would agree that a career is well summarized by the number of Superbowls.And the God crack is way out of line based on:I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?Your definition of "be excellent" is a lot different than mine. Please now creatively define that as well for me.

Being that you are the one calling people names and acting like a tool, how do you define "being excellent to each other"???

 

[sho nuff]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

(1) I would think that # of SB wins is a pretty deficient index of his on-the-field performance. But you have been leading the pack in selective citation of statistics, so why quit now? Add in leading thower of INTs without mentioning TDs too, would you please?(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

Sorry but I don't care how many tds, yds, ints, etc. he has, the only thing important to me is SB wins. I think feeling this is my right as a football fan. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you but I missed the part where you were anointed god.

None of this comes as a surprise coming from you. You are one of the biggest Favre detractors here.You are really missing reality if you want to dismiss Favre's career as a Packer because he has only one SB win. You haters can rip on him for his issues dealing with retirement but to dismiss what Favre did on the field and how he played the game is a complete joke. You may want to go look back and see how many Super Bowls the Packers won after 1967 or their record in the 70s and 80s.He's one of the best QBs to ever play the game and he has a Super Bowl win, 3 MVPs, and numerous records to back that up. His legacy will turn out just fine just like Willie Mays, Johnny Unitas, and Joe Namath did after they finished with other teams.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy. (3) PR nightmares are often trumped by good or bad on the field play. If, for example, Favre won a SB as a Viking this stuff will be forgeotten in the annals of historical legacy. Similarly, if he TOTALLY SUCKS this season I think he willbe remembered for sucking. However, if this is his exit from the game, such as if he decided not to play and has strung the Vikings along, it IS what he will be remembered for.

I'd only add that Legacy Tarnishment [TM] isn't a binary concept. There are degrees. Ultimately, I think Favre's Legacy Tarnishment Index will probably be similar to Barry Sanders': after a few years have passed it won't generally be part of the conversation about him, but some people will continue to bring it up.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

 

[sho nuff]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?After the pursuit of Favre not only by management...but then by their teammates?I think its scrambling back in a way where they saw they might not have what they want in the other two...but now have to sort of "settle" for them.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?

"mentally"?

 

[sho nuff]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?

"mentally"?

So no answer from you either? Just a poor attempt to mock?It obviously will not affect them physically...but do you now deny there is a mental aspect tothe game...especially at the QB position?

 

[FunkyPlutos]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?After the pursuit of Favre not only by management...but then by their teammates?I think its scrambling back in a way where they saw they might not have what they want in the other two...but now have to sort of "settle" for them.

I understand your point, but Favre isn't just a run of the mill QB that is sitting out there. If they didn't explore the option of Favre with his resume, they wouldn't be trying to make the team better. They didn't get involved in the Cutler sweepstakes, which showed that they had some confidence in what they had, but a HOF QB has to be worth looking into. Again, I understand your point, I just don't think it is as big of a deal as some make of it.

 

[sho nuff]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?After the pursuit of Favre not only by management...but then by their teammates?I think its scrambling back in a way where they saw they might not have what they want in the other two...but now have to sort of "settle" for them.

I understand your point, but Favre isn't just a run of the mill QB that is sitting out there. If they didn't explore the option of Favre with his resume, they wouldn't be trying to make the team better. They didn't get involved in the Cutler sweepstakes, which showed that they had some confidence in what they had, but a HOF QB has to be worth looking into. Again, I understand your point, I just don't think it is as big of a deal as some make of it.

I agree that they should be able to explain it...but I can see it being a little bit...especially with the texts from Vikings players last week hitting the media.Id say the two are not quite feeling the love.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

sho....They aren't children. They can go into training camp with the opportunity to win the starting job. I think they will be mentally focused on winning the starting job and not worrying that the team tried to bring Favre in.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

And why do you think they should feel the love? They haven't done squat in the NFL.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

(2) I would think although he CLEARLY HAS LOST FANS (is why I commented that much of this is bad PR), this is a similarly poor index of his eventual legacy. Much as picking a low point in presidential approval ratings is a poor index of presidential legacy.

Might have gained some fans back by playing around toying with the Vikings all summer and leaving them to have to scramble back with Sage and Tarvaris.

They thought that they would probably have him, but they didn't practice with anyone but Sage and Tarvaris, so I don't know how they are "scrambling" at this point.

Do you honestly believe Sage and Tarvaris are just fine mentally after this?After the pursuit of Favre not only by management...but then by their teammates?I think its scrambling back in a way where they saw they might not have what they want in the other two...but now have to sort of "settle" for them.

I understand your point, but Favre isn't just a run of the mill QB that is sitting out there. If they didn't explore the option of Favre with his resume, they wouldn't be trying to make the team better. They didn't get involved in the Cutler sweepstakes, which showed that they had some confidence in what they had, but a HOF QB has to be worth looking into. Again, I understand your point, I just don't think it is as big of a deal as some make of it.

 

[sho nuff]

sho....They aren't children. They can go into training camp with the opportunity to win the starting job. I think they will be mentally focused on winning the starting job and not worrying that the team tried to bring Favre in.

No...they are not children...but even grown men have their confidence shaken by such things.How they handle it will be the interesting part. Some take it as a challenge and rise to the occasion...others fold.But to deny any effect on those two is a bit naive IMO.

 

[Phurfur]

I am 43 years of age.

I stand by the statement, although I would add that he probably wants to wait right before camp to announce so there is one hooplah, not 2.

I think you are also aware by comments in other threads that I think signing him is probably a poor idea for the Vikings with regard to long term benefits to the team and that delaying the announcement is not great for the team either.

But we are speaking of his motivation, and I thin he actually does want to be sure his arm is right. It is a psychology thing and although you might call it "gullible", and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express, I do have a Ph.D. in psychology and have watched about every play he has ever made including every snap last season.

All the hatred does is push you toward the Dark Side, my friend

Edited to add: And if you read my characterization of his legacy above I also do not think it is blind fandom-type material. But I think self-interested as his delay might be (or not) I think it is not at all about the drama and he would prefer it was all quietly handled.

If Favre had his way he would live in Miss. and fly in every Sunday for games. This is Favre's MO, he loves playing the game but hates the prep (who doesn't). Just because I don't believe his excuses any more doesn't make me a hater. HTHThat hater crap gets real old and it is really sad that a guy with a Ph.D. in psychology uses it.

You are one of the biggest Favre haters here and you have openly embraced that.

I have absolutely no reason to hate Favre, I don't even know him.

You are pathetic. You have been quoted in this forum stating you hate Favre. You also have accused Favre have of having press conferences during Super Bowl week for many years even though it only happened ONE year. You are one of the biggest Favre haters here. Why do you deny that?

So that is how you remember it? Let me help you out here. I stated in one thread that I was "beginning to hate brett favre", nothing more.I also remember stating that Favre announced his return during SB week, to which a half dozen posters told me I was crazy and to prove it. I then owned you all with this link:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...007.html?cat=14

Nice try!

 

[fatness]

Vikings coach says QB Brett Favre not coming back

Brett Favre won't be coming out of retirement to play for Minnesota. Vikings coach Brad Childress confirmed to The Associated Press in a text message Tuesday that the three-time MVP quarterback for the Green Bay Packers would not join his team when training camp opens later this week. Favre's decision was first reported by The Star Tribune on its Web site.

Childress told the paper Favre did not want to put himself through the grind of a 19th NFL season.

Stay tuned.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

lolz

Thank god this is finally over --- the stake has been driven into that black shriveled heart.

Mods -- lock all favre threads, plz.

 

[fatness]

I doubt it's over.