Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

[snogger]

I hate hate hate having to go to the office if there is any kind of commute. Left a job last year when the CEO changed his deal with me around working remote. It's just soul sucking to spend 2-3 hours a day on a freeway. Will never do it again in my career.

Agreed..
Been working remote for over 5 years. The two hours a day I use to spend in a car are now spent being more productivity. As I told my management team, there are many days I work 9 to 10 hours, which would never happen if I had to drive into an office.

 

[AAABatteries]

I'll share what some of you don't want to hear or must have jobs that are outside of what I'm going to share.

-Mrs and I went back to Univ of Miami after a 6-7 year stint at a smaller non-profit in Palm Beach. Even thru the pandemic, the Palm Beach spot, they were in the office a lot and the President was very involved with staff, didn't allow for more than a 3-2 ratio of in office and at home, always wanting to get folks back fully in the office and felt strongly that production suffered. I'm talking after the vaccines.

-FF to the new/old spot and the first thing we encountered were staff that we'll say are below the 6 figure level-Admin Asst in one form or another, lot of fancy titles these days that mean the same thing...but they were always sick and stayed home often. There were very few folks who regularly showed up and the work/production was bad, my wife and I gave them every opp to show their true colors. Emails not answered for 24-48+ hours on some of the most simplest of tasks, unacceptable. Don't answer their phones when they are called as they work out of their home, unacceptable. Anything that differs from what unfolds in the office is unacceptable. Mrs and I work 3 days a week out of the home office and I can promise you that we don't stop from about sun up to sun down in the evening. All calls and emails are handled promptly

-We have had to move some folks on their way, luckily the ones we had the most issues with decided to voluntarily quit! It doesn't get much easier than watching someone with a terrible work ethic and attitude quit...you don't even have to offer unemployment or deal with any potential HR issues, it's great.

-Our experience has been most folks who stayed home thru the pandemic and never returned to full time back in the office, they cause disruptions when they are being forced back into the office, they tend to be terrible workers in terms of production.

-It sounds arrogant to read posts of people that want to just up and quit because they are required to work in the office. I doubt many of you actually work harder at home or get more done to whoever owns or runs your company as the CEO. To me it's like the FBGs who proclaim great things charging up $5,000-$10,000 a month on high interest credit cards because they pay it all off and get free limos and Gulfstreams to take them around everywhere so they can pick up free groceries but the reality is a lot of this country is in debt and credit cards should not be in the hands of most average Americans.

If you could trust humans then you wouldn't need police, that's the truth. Not everyone follows the law or follows the rules without some consequences in place to deter them.
People need to be held accountable, that's a lot harder to measure when they are just sitting at home on Zoom calls and not even showing their face, just a background so they can sit in their jammies all day.

Humans tend to do the wrong thing when they have access/a choice in making bad decisions and if you think every person working at home is more productive then they would be under the thumb of their boss at a traditional office or cubical then I think you are fooling yourselves.

If you have a cushy WFH and feel like you've made it in this world and can do 8 hours of work in the actual 1-2 hours you now sit at a desk or couch at home, be my guest.
But to act as though production is better with everyone working from home is a bunch of nonsense
Anyone who is actually witnessing it first hand and has to manage/lead teams can see it.

And if you must know, the University seems to be pushing people back into their home office, they are sizing down work spaces for each department and team, where we might go 2 days a week down to Miami, they want us maybe 1 day every other week for the bigger meetings.

So in the end I'm telling you it's more productive working in an office with good leadership vs working from a home office and yet...
We're going to be working from home even more than we already are now, SMH

I don't know if this is a troll or if you really feel like your beliefs on this apply to everyone? You are objectively and unequivocally wrong.

I would like to ask, is there some sort of fear factor of potential sickness or something?
Are any of you wearing N-95 masks into the office?
I don't see it here in Florida but sometimes I see court cases unfolding in spots like Los Angeles as an example and people are wearing masks
What is the tug of war with having to go into the offices like most did prior to 2020/2021?

-I have no doubt that people "IN THEIR MINDS" think that more work gets done by folks just logging in at home, it's natural to want to believe that.
But it's objectively and unequivocally wrong as you say

And I only pulled your post (i know it's a joke) because I thought it was relevant to some of the things I wanted to share.
Yeah some of it's laid on a little thick Score, you know who I am.

Silence is complicit and I wanted to see what the temperature truly was in here, I'm starting to get a much better understanding of what is really driving this thread.

It's simply not needed anymore in a lot of industries. I'll use mine as an example.

1. I no longer have to commute 1 hour in each direction. For me, that's a lot of extra time I get back, and for the company, some of it does go to them. I no longer have to leave the office by a certain time to get home to do whatever it is I need to do there. I end up logging in a bit earlier and logging off a bit later. Everyone wins.

2. Internet/video tech is now allowing us to meet without the need to reserve conference rooms or be in the same office/state/country. Logistics like this makes things move faster overall.

3. Time is not wasted with office BS like celebrating birthdays, impromptu meetings that could have been an email, leaving early for happy hours, talkative co-workers. I have a dog and two cats, do the laundry during the day, etc and these are still WAY fewer distractions than being in an office.

Again, things like this will be highly dependent on the industry. Of course there are many jobs that cant be done remotely. I would never make a claim that it's best for everyone to work from home. But it's just as ridiculous for you to make a blanket statement that it's best for everyone to be working in an office. That is just not true anymore.

Edited to add: And yes, I have had way less colds/flus since WFH so that's another benefit for everyone.

2. I disagree on Zoom calls and the like, think it would be much easier to have a 5 minute F2F meeting and get right to the point vs endless hours on these zoom calls. I prefer all my fundraising prospects meet me in person, I can cut thru a lot of the red tape faster when I'm in front of someone. But again, we're in different verticals and I have no doubt it works well for you. I

I don’t understand this one. Teams is way easier. No need to check which conference room is available, you can meet with people in other offices without the hassle of conference call numbers and passcodes, etc. I don’t see any advantage to on site meetings. I don’t know how a 5 minute F2F turns into “endless hours” via Teams. If anything it’s the opposite.

There’s also the chat feature that lets you quickly get some info without having to find the person and meet in the first place.

Almost every meeting I have someone is sharing slides or sharing their screen. Quick teams calls and screen shares saves me a ton of time - not to mention half those calls are with people in other countries. Also, when on a Teams call I can record it - I can take notes in the chat and if I have Co-Pilot I can have AI spit out meeting meetings. MoP thinks a quick 5 minute face to face is superior - he probably knows better - let me shoot off an email to Satya Nadella and let him know.

 

[snogger]

Why are most of these companies that are going to 3 days in the office forcing Tue, Wed, Thur? What is the difference? Our president initially came back with full in the office and got tremendous push back. Enough so that he came back with 3 days in the office and 2 WFH. Our company also allows for ultimate flexibility. You have your set 3 days in the office and it doesn't have to match up with anyone else. You can also switch and adjust as necessary including partial days in the office. With all of that being said, the flexibility would go away if you aren't getting your work done. We actually prefer to be spread out over the full work week so at least 1 person is there to do daily tasks such as mail. You also get different mixes of people to interact with.

the idea is the point of having to come into the office is to be able to collaborate with others, if the office is only half full then not really collaborating with everyone, or the people you need to. also meetings where 1/2 the people are in office and 1/2 at home really don't work great, it's better if either everyone in house or on zoom. Now for some jobs maybe it won't matter a ton but I do see why my co. (financial) is doing it this way.

Hear this same thing from the ELT's.. When our Manager mentioned that our team consists of me in NW Wisconsin, a person in Dallas, a person in Florida, 1 in Maine and one in Connecticut so those that drive into an office would be collaborating through Teams.. You know, like we do today.

Their answer..
Well they'll be able to collaborate with others in the office.. Yea, just what I miss, hearing about how little Johnny is playing soccer, and little Judy is starting to skate.. Yea, that helps my productivity

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'll share what some of you don't want to hear or must have jobs that are outside of what I'm going to share.

-Mrs and I went back to Univ of Miami after a 6-7 year stint at a smaller non-profit in Palm Beach. Even thru the pandemic, the Palm Beach spot, they were in the office a lot and the President was very involved with staff, didn't allow for more than a 3-2 ratio of in office and at home, always wanting to get folks back fully in the office and felt strongly that production suffered. I'm talking after the vaccines.

-FF to the new/old spot and the first thing we encountered were staff that we'll say are below the 6 figure level-Admin Asst in one form or another, lot of fancy titles these days that mean the same thing...but they were always sick and stayed home often. There were very few folks who regularly showed up and the work/production was bad, my wife and I gave them every opp to show their true colors. Emails not answered for 24-48+ hours on some of the most simplest of tasks, unacceptable. Don't answer their phones when they are called as they work out of their home, unacceptable. Anything that differs from what unfolds in the office is unacceptable. Mrs and I work 3 days a week out of the home office and I can promise you that we don't stop from about sun up to sun down in the evening. All calls and emails are handled promptly

-We have had to move some folks on their way, luckily the ones we had the most issues with decided to voluntarily quit! It doesn't get much easier than watching someone with a terrible work ethic and attitude quit...you don't even have to offer unemployment or deal with any potential HR issues, it's great.

-Our experience has been most folks who stayed home thru the pandemic and never returned to full time back in the office, they cause disruptions when they are being forced back into the office, they tend to be terrible workers in terms of production.

-It sounds arrogant to read posts of people that want to just up and quit because they are required to work in the office. I doubt many of you actually work harder at home or get more done to whoever owns or runs your company as the CEO. To me it's like the FBGs who proclaim great things charging up $5,000-$10,000 a month on high interest credit cards because they pay it all off and get free limos and Gulfstreams to take them around everywhere so they can pick up free groceries but the reality is a lot of this country is in debt and credit cards should not be in the hands of most average Americans.

If you could trust humans then you wouldn't need police, that's the truth. Not everyone follows the law or follows the rules without some consequences in place to deter them.
People need to be held accountable, that's a lot harder to measure when they are just sitting at home on Zoom calls and not even showing their face, just a background so they can sit in their jammies all day.

Humans tend to do the wrong thing when they have access/a choice in making bad decisions and if you think every person working at home is more productive then they would be under the thumb of their boss at a traditional office or cubical then I think you are fooling yourselves.

If you have a cushy WFH and feel like you've made it in this world and can do 8 hours of work in the actual 1-2 hours you now sit at a desk or couch at home, be my guest.
But to act as though production is better with everyone working from home is a bunch of nonsense
Anyone who is actually witnessing it first hand and has to manage/lead teams can see it.

And if you must know, the University seems to be pushing people back into their home office, they are sizing down work spaces for each department and team, where we might go 2 days a week down to Miami, they want us maybe 1 day every other week for the bigger meetings.

So in the end I'm telling you it's more productive working in an office with good leadership vs working from a home office and yet...
We're going to be working from home even more than we already are now, SMH

I don't know if this is a troll or if you really feel like your beliefs on this apply to everyone? You are objectively and unequivocally wrong.

I would like to ask, is there some sort of fear factor of potential sickness or something?
Are any of you wearing N-95 masks into the office?
I don't see it here in Florida but sometimes I see court cases unfolding in spots like Los Angeles as an example and people are wearing masks
What is the tug of war with having to go into the offices like most did prior to 2020/2021?

-I have no doubt that people "IN THEIR MINDS" think that more work gets done by folks just logging in at home, it's natural to want to believe that.
But it's objectively and unequivocally wrong as you say

And I only pulled your post (i know it's a joke) because I thought it was relevant to some of the things I wanted to share.
Yeah some of it's laid on a little thick Score, you know who I am.

Silence is complicit and I wanted to see what the temperature truly was in here, I'm starting to get a much better understanding of what is really driving this thread.

It's simply not needed anymore in a lot of industries. I'll use mine as an example.

1. I no longer have to commute 1 hour in each direction. For me, that's a lot of extra time I get back, and for the company, some of it does go to them. I no longer have to leave the office by a certain time to get home to do whatever it is I need to do there. I end up logging in a bit earlier and logging off a bit later. Everyone wins.

2. Internet/video tech is now allowing us to meet without the need to reserve conference rooms or be in the same office/state/country. Logistics like this makes things move faster overall.

3. Time is not wasted with office BS like celebrating birthdays, impromptu meetings that could have been an email, leaving early for happy hours, talkative co-workers. I have a dog and two cats, do the laundry during the day, etc and these are still WAY fewer distractions than being in an office.

Again, things like this will be highly dependent on the industry. Of course there are many jobs that cant be done remotely. I would never make a claim that it's best for everyone to work from home. But it's just as ridiculous for you to make a blanket statement that it's best for everyone to be working in an office. That is just not true anymore.

Edited to add: And yes, I have had way less colds/flus since WFH so that's another benefit for everyone.

2. I disagree on Zoom calls and the like, think it would be much easier to have a 5 minute F2F meeting and get right to the point vs endless hours on these zoom calls. I prefer all my fundraising prospects meet me in person, I can cut thru a lot of the red tape faster when I'm in front of someone. But again, we're in different verticals and I have no doubt it works well for you. I

I don’t understand this one. Teams is way easier. No need to check which conference room is available, you can meet with people in other offices without the hassle of conference call numbers and passcodes, etc. I don’t see any advantage to on site meetings. I don’t know how a 5 minute F2F turns into “endless hours” via Teams. If anything it’s the opposite.

There’s also the chat feature that lets you quickly get some info without having to find the person and meet in the first place.

Ok, I'll tell you why I don't like it.
Many times all I see is a background, don't even get a face to face live stream, just a voice.

-I thrive on reading body language when I'm speaking and when I'm listening.
People can say one thing when their body language says something much different.

-And we've asked people to please be dressed and presentable on Zoom calls to which some folks say "If we have to do all that, why don't we just come into the office?!"
And that alone should tell you that they already view being home as some sort of Disney World escape from the office/Boss.

Again Score, I have no doubt you thrive working at home.
But not everyone is as disciplined as you are.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I’ve experienced variance in my own productivity in working from home. For me it is beneficial for some types of tasks to be in person. 40 minutes each way to the office is ok. Only really did 5 days in office for a couple of months before cold and flu season seems to have created a mess. Thought I was past my cold, ended up getting others sick. Sort of a disaster, partly due to pressure to show up. Ended up apologizing for behavior and ripping people that insinuated that I needed to show up. Boss is relatively lenient for being 75

 

[belljr]

I'll share what some of you don't want to hear or must have jobs that are outside of what I'm going to share.

-Mrs and I went back to Univ of Miami after a 6-7 year stint at a smaller non-profit in Palm Beach. Even thru the pandemic, the Palm Beach spot, they were in the office a lot and the President was very involved with staff, didn't allow for more than a 3-2 ratio of in office and at home, always wanting to get folks back fully in the office and felt strongly that production suffered. I'm talking after the vaccines.

-FF to the new/old spot and the first thing we encountered were staff that we'll say are below the 6 figure level-Admin Asst in one form or another, lot of fancy titles these days that mean the same thing...but they were always sick and stayed home often. There were very few folks who regularly showed up and the work/production was bad, my wife and I gave them every opp to show their true colors. Emails not answered for 24-48+ hours on some of the most simplest of tasks, unacceptable. Don't answer their phones when they are called as they work out of their home, unacceptable. Anything that differs from what unfolds in the office is unacceptable. Mrs and I work 3 days a week out of the home office and I can promise you that we don't stop from about sun up to sun down in the evening. All calls and emails are handled promptly

-We have had to move some folks on their way, luckily the ones we had the most issues with decided to voluntarily quit! It doesn't get much easier than watching someone with a terrible work ethic and attitude quit...you don't even have to offer unemployment or deal with any potential HR issues, it's great.

-Our experience has been most folks who stayed home thru the pandemic and never returned to full time back in the office, they cause disruptions when they are being forced back into the office, they tend to be terrible workers in terms of production.

-It sounds arrogant to read posts of people that want to just up and quit because they are required to work in the office. I doubt many of you actually work harder at home or get more done to whoever owns or runs your company as the CEO. To me it's like the FBGs who proclaim great things charging up $5,000-$10,000 a month on high interest credit cards because they pay it all off and get free limos and Gulfstreams to take them around everywhere so they can pick up free groceries but the reality is a lot of this country is in debt and credit cards should not be in the hands of most average Americans.

If you could trust humans then you wouldn't need police, that's the truth. Not everyone follows the law or follows the rules without some consequences in place to deter them.
People need to be held accountable, that's a lot harder to measure when they are just sitting at home on Zoom calls and not even showing their face, just a background so they can sit in their jammies all day.

Humans tend to do the wrong thing when they have access/a choice in making bad decisions and if you think every person working at home is more productive then they would be under the thumb of their boss at a traditional office or cubical then I think you are fooling yourselves.

If you have a cushy WFH and feel like you've made it in this world and can do 8 hours of work in the actual 1-2 hours you now sit at a desk or couch at home, be my guest.
But to act as though production is better with everyone working from home is a bunch of nonsense
Anyone who is actually witnessing it first hand and has to manage/lead teams can see it.

And if you must know, the University seems to be pushing people back into their home office, they are sizing down work spaces for each department and team, where we might go 2 days a week down to Miami, they want us maybe 1 day every other week for the bigger meetings.

So in the end I'm telling you it's more productive working in an office with good leadership vs working from a home office and yet...
We're going to be working from home even more than we already are now, SMH

I don't know if this is a troll or if you really feel like your beliefs on this apply to everyone? You are objectively and unequivocally wrong.

I would like to ask, is there some sort of fear factor of potential sickness or something?
Are any of you wearing N-95 masks into the office?
I don't see it here in Florida but sometimes I see court cases unfolding in spots like Los Angeles as an example and people are wearing masks
What is the tug of war with having to go into the offices like most did prior to 2020/2021?

-I have no doubt that people "IN THEIR MINDS" think that more work gets done by folks just logging in at home, it's natural to want to believe that.
But it's objectively and unequivocally wrong as you say

And I only pulled your post (i know it's a joke) because I thought it was relevant to some of the things I wanted to share.
Yeah some of it's laid on a little thick Score, you know who I am.

Silence is complicit and I wanted to see what the temperature truly was in here, I'm starting to get a much better understanding of what is really driving this thread.

It's simply not needed anymore in a lot of industries. I'll use mine as an example.

1. I no longer have to commute 1 hour in each direction. For me, that's a lot of extra time I get back, and for the company, some of it does go to them. I no longer have to leave the office by a certain time to get home to do whatever it is I need to do there. I end up logging in a bit earlier and logging off a bit later. Everyone wins.

2. Internet/video tech is now allowing us to meet without the need to reserve conference rooms or be in the same office/state/country. Logistics like this makes things move faster overall.

3. Time is not wasted with office BS like celebrating birthdays, impromptu meetings that could have been an email, leaving early for happy hours, talkative co-workers. I have a dog and two cats, do the laundry during the day, etc and these are still WAY fewer distractions than being in an office.

Again, things like this will be highly dependent on the industry. Of course there are many jobs that cant be done remotely. I would never make a claim that it's best for everyone to work from home. But it's just as ridiculous for you to make a blanket statement that it's best for everyone to be working in an office. That is just not true anymore.

Edited to add: And yes, I have had way less colds/flus since WFH so that's another benefit for everyone.

2. I disagree on Zoom calls and the like, think it would be much easier to have a 5 minute F2F meeting and get right to the point vs endless hours on these zoom calls. I prefer all my fundraising prospects meet me in person, I can cut thru a lot of the red tape faster when I'm in front of someone. But again, we're in different verticals and I have no doubt it works well for you. I

I don’t understand this one. Teams is way easier. No need to check which conference room is available, you can meet with people in other offices without the hassle of conference call numbers and passcodes, etc. I don’t see any advantage to on site meetings. I don’t know how a 5 minute F2F turns into “endless hours” via Teams. If anything it’s the opposite.

There’s also the chat feature that lets you quickly get some info without having to find the person and meet in the first place.

Almost every meeting I have someone is sharing slides or sharing their screen. Quick teams calls and screen shares saves me a ton of time - not to mention half those calls are with people in other countries. Also, when on a Teams call I can record it - I can take notes in the chat and if I have Co-Pilot I can have AI spit out meeting meetings. MoP thinks a quick 5 minute face to face is superior - he probably knows better - let me shoot off an email to Satya Nadella and let him know.

What is this Witchcraft

 

[Mitchie]

Why are most of these companies that are going to 3 days in the office forcing Tue, Wed, Thur? What is the difference? Our president initially came back with full in the office and got tremendous push back. Enough so that he came back with 3 days in the office and 2 WFH. Our company also allows for ultimate flexibility. You have your set 3 days in the office and it doesn't have to match up with anyone else. You can also switch and adjust as necessary including partial days in the office. With all of that being said, the flexibility would go away if you aren't getting your work done. We actually prefer to be spread out over the full work week so at least 1 person is there to do daily tasks such as mail. You also get different mixes of people to interact with.

the idea is the point of having to come into the office is to be able to collaborate with others, if the office is only half full then not really collaborating with everyone, or the people you need to. also meetings where 1/2 the people are in office and 1/2 at home really don't work great, it's better if either everyone in house or on zoom. Now for some jobs maybe it won't matter a ton but I do see why my co. (financial) is doing it this way.

Hear this same thing from the ELT's.. When our Manager mentioned that our team consists of me in NW Wisconsin, a person in Dallas, a person in Florida, 1 in Maine and one in Connecticut so those that drive into an office would be collaborating through Teams.. You know, like we do today.

Their answer..
Well they'll be able to collaborate with others in the office.. Yea, just what I miss, hearing about how little Johnny is playing soccer, and little Judy is starting to skate.. Yea, that helps my productivity

well for some businesses/ companies/ teams doesn't make sense probably but for some it adds value, just speaking for my business i do see the company perspective

 

[Ministry of Pain]

D-I-S-C
It's one of those 4 when we're talking business.

Most of the Shark Pool is either a "D" (strong will, results oriented) or a "C" (analytical, precision oriented) in here.
MoP wishes he fit into one of those two categories but unfortunately does not.
At least 60-70%+ of most companies and organizations are filled with those 2 types of people, you are one of them, Mass.
And these people mostly get annoyed with folks like me.

I have no idea what this means, or what the last thing meant when you applied some statements to me, and implied I was laying it on thick. I don't speak MOP.

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You wanna audition for the next monthly column for Reader's Digest, knock yourself out, but none of these pretty nasty things you are saying bout WFH people is backed up with any data.

There are no studies showing that WFH hurts productivity, short of Mumbai call centers. Read the piece above.

I either described/called you an independent strong willed results oriented Dominant "D" or an analytical Conscientious "C" systematic precisionist
Neither of those are anywhere near as mean as how you like to paint me

BTW: What's wrong with taking the high road once in a while?
I unleashed a lot of
I expected some push back in here

-PTSD is how I would describe a lot of folks not wanting to go back into the office
I never said it was wrong to feel that way but its clear some fear of a virus, cold or whatever is what motivates some to stay home

That's a long way from being "more productive"
That's building a business model based on fear

Maybe I don't know people as you say
-But I know their tendencies

 

[MAC_32]

So nobody works for the government one way or the other? Nobody works for a "Non Profit" in here?

I've been working for non-profits in education for over a decade - what's this about?

 

[Mitchie]

D-I-S-C
It's one of those 4 when we're talking business.

Most of the Shark Pool is either a "D" (strong will, results oriented) or a "C" (analytical, precision oriented) in here.
MoP wishes he fit into one of those two categories but unfortunately does not.
At least 60-70%+ of most companies and organizations are filled with those 2 types of people, you are one of them, Mass.
And these people mostly get annoyed with folks like me.

I have no idea what this means, or what the last thing meant when you applied some statements to me, and implied I was laying it on thick. I don't speak MOP.

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You wanna audition for the next monthly column for Reader's Digest, knock yourself out, but none of these pretty nasty things you are saying bout WFH people is backed up with any data.

There are no studies showing that WFH hurts productivity, short of Mumbai call centers. Read the piece above.

I either described/called you an independent strong willed results oriented Dominant "D" or an analytical Conscientious "C" systematic precisionist
Neither of those are anywhere near as mean as how you like to paint me

BTW: What's wrong with taking the high road once in a while?
I unleashed a lot of
I expected some push back in here

-PTSD is how I would describe a lot of folks not wanting to go back into the office
I never said it was wrong to feel that way but its clear some fear of a virus, cold or whatever is what motivates some to stay home

That's a long way from being "more productive"
That's building a business model based on fear

Maybe I don't know people as you say
-But I know their tendencies

People who are motivated to do a good job/ excel at work are going to work like that whether they are at home or the office, people who are trying to skate by and not get fired are going to work like that whether they are at home or the office.

 

[Scoresman]

D-I-S-C
It's one of those 4 when we're talking business.

Most of the Shark Pool is either a "D" (strong will, results oriented) or a "C" (analytical, precision oriented) in here.
MoP wishes he fit into one of those two categories but unfortunately does not.
At least 60-70%+ of most companies and organizations are filled with those 2 types of people, you are one of them, Mass.
And these people mostly get annoyed with folks like me.

I have no idea what this means, or what the last thing meant when you applied some statements to me, and implied I was laying it on thick. I don't speak MOP.

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You wanna audition for the next monthly column for Reader's Digest, knock yourself out, but none of these pretty nasty things you are saying bout WFH people is backed up with any data.

There are no studies showing that WFH hurts productivity, short of Mumbai call centers. Read the piece above.

IMaybe I don't know people as you say
-But I know their tendencies

No you don’t, at least not people outside of your bubble. But you’re posting like you do, making broad generalizations. That’s why people are taking issue.

There’s a whole thread of people here who are successfully WFH proving you wrong. I work with dozens of WFH co-workers who are proving you wrong. I have family and friends who WFH successfully who are proving you wrong. It’s really widespread and it works.

Again, it’s been three years of this. If WFH was really the productivity killer you say it is, widespread RTO would’ve happened as soon as the COVID numbers dipped originally.

 

[MAC_32]

well for some businesses/ companies/ teams doesn't make sense probably but for some it adds value, just speaking for my business i do see the company perspective

Teams meetings have their place, but I generally much prefer in-person when possible. There are exceptions and it's industry/work place specific though.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Well they'll be able to collaborate with others in the office.. Yea, just what I miss, hearing about how little Johnny is playing soccer, and little Judy is starting to skate.. Yea, that helps my productivity

There was so much time wasted in the office when you sit and think about it.

I do go in once a week just to maintain a presence, see people, and my boss usually goes in same day so I can run by stuff with him. Every time I do go in I wonder why since workwise I did the same exact things I do at home and drove 45 minutes each way to do it. I guess the one advantage is their printers are much better and faster so if I have to print a large document I can do it there.

Back when we were all in and teams sat together everyday, you’d talk about sports for a bit, celebrate birthdays, have Ray from accounting stop by and make inappropriate jokes, sit through useless meetings where you couldn’t multi-task, etc etc. There’s different perspectives on everything but we should be open to the fact that both sides work.

Our businesses CEO does want people to come in - he’s not my boss really since I’m corporate but it’s the leader of the group I support. He was talking to the Company in a Town Hall and lamenting about the empty office and how great it used to be when we were all in the office collaborating and how we had such a good thing going. Then a minute later he talks about how 2021 was our best year ever.

Uhh…the year we were all still home every day?

 

[NutterButter]

Teams meetings are the worst. Its so awkward talking to people in that way. Whenever the convo becomes more multi-person, it gets so clumsy. I'd much rather meet in person, but I'll also be glad if that never happens again.

 

[nightmare]

The math says M.O.P. is wrong.
Since M.O.P. doesn't do math you guys are in for a long fight.

 

[The Z Machine]

I'll share what some of you don't want to hear or must have jobs that are outside of what I'm going to share.

-Mrs and I went back to Univ of Miami after a 6-7 year stint at a smaller non-profit in Palm Beach. Even thru the pandemic, the Palm Beach spot, they were in the office a lot and the President was very involved with staff, didn't allow for more than a 3-2 ratio of in office and at home, always wanting to get folks back fully in the office and felt strongly that production suffered. I'm talking after the vaccines.

-FF to the new/old spot and the first thing we encountered were staff that we'll say are below the 6 figure level-Admin Asst in one form or another, lot of fancy titles these days that mean the same thing...but they were always sick and stayed home often. There were very few folks who regularly showed up and the work/production was bad, my wife and I gave them every opp to show their true colors. Emails not answered for 24-48+ hours on some of the most simplest of tasks, unacceptable. Don't answer their phones when they are called as they work out of their home, unacceptable. Anything that differs from what unfolds in the office is unacceptable. Mrs and I work 3 days a week out of the home office and I can promise you that we don't stop from about sun up to sun down in the evening. All calls and emails are handled promptly

-We have had to move some folks on their way, luckily the ones we had the most issues with decided to voluntarily quit! It doesn't get much easier than watching someone with a terrible work ethic and attitude quit...you don't even have to offer unemployment or deal with any potential HR issues, it's great.

-Our experience has been most folks who stayed home thru the pandemic and never returned to full time back in the office, they cause disruptions when they are being forced back into the office, they tend to be terrible workers in terms of production.

-It sounds arrogant to read posts of people that want to just up and quit because they are required to work in the office. I doubt many of you actually work harder at home or get more done to whoever owns or runs your company as the CEO. To me it's like the FBGs who proclaim great things charging up $5,000-$10,000 a month on high interest credit cards because they pay it all off and get free limos and Gulfstreams to take them around everywhere so they can pick up free groceries but the reality is a lot of this country is in debt and credit cards should not be in the hands of most average Americans.

If you could trust humans then you wouldn't need police, that's the truth. Not everyone follows the law or follows the rules without some consequences in place to deter them.
People need to be held accountable, that's a lot harder to measure when they are just sitting at home on Zoom calls and not even showing their face, just a background so they can sit in their jammies all day.

Humans tend to do the wrong thing when they have access/a choice in making bad decisions and if you think every person working at home is more productive then they would be under the thumb of their boss at a traditional office or cubical then I think you are fooling yourselves.

If you have a cushy WFH and feel like you've made it in this world and can do 8 hours of work in the actual 1-2 hours you now sit at a desk or couch at home, be my guest.
But to act as though production is better with everyone working from home is a bunch of nonsense
Anyone who is actually witnessing it first hand and has to manage/lead teams can see it.

And if you must know, the University seems to be pushing people back into their home office, they are sizing down work spaces for each department and team, where we might go 2 days a week down to Miami, they want us maybe 1 day every other week for the bigger meetings.

So in the end I'm telling you it's more productive working in an office with good leadership vs working from a home office and yet...
We're going to be working from home even more than we already are now, SMH

How many people work in an environment where they would see the boss daily/weekly? Field sales - we weren't allowed in the office other than Mondays. Multiple jobs were my boss lived in other states. I had employees in LA, SF, Seattle, Denver, Phoenix. I work with groups in Michigan, Hungary, India. I'm on my laptop at 5am somedays, 11PM others, and I'll go workout for an hour at 9:30am or 2pm.

In 2012 I had 70+ flight segments. In 2023 I haven't been to a corporate facility or left my house for work. Under which scenario do you think I am more productive?

The one where you show up to my office and try to sell me stuff. On Zoom I can ignore or dodge you more easily.

That said, if I really wanted your product, I'm not waiting for you to come to my office. I'm doing a conference call right away and trying to place a PO because I'm sure the lead time is 6-8 weeks.

 

[The Z Machine]

The fact of the matter is that we've now had over three years of WFH to root out the people who are not productive at home. If your company is not able to do this and can't tell if people are productive or not, that's a problem with upper management.'

Also, being in in an office by itself does not mean people will be productive. I'd bet a lot that people who are not productive at home probably weren't very productive at the office either.

* slaps table * THANK YOU!
I work for an electric utility as an engineer and have been WFH since March 2020. Management saw ZERO loss in productivity from the arrangement and decided my fellow engineers and I could do either. I elected to stay home and will never go back to 0700-1530 office time.

I'm jealous. I'm an engineer that has to touch, build, test, and physically set up things in order to do my job. My dad was an engineer at a power company as well, so I remember visiting his office when I was a kid.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

D-I-S-C
It's one of those 4 when we're talking business.

Most of the Shark Pool is either a "D" (strong will, results oriented) or a "C" (analytical, precision oriented) in here.
MoP wishes he fit into one of those two categories but unfortunately does not.
At least 60-70%+ of most companies and organizations are filled with those 2 types of people, you are one of them, Mass.
And these people mostly get annoyed with folks like me.

I have no idea what this means, or what the last thing meant when you applied some statements to me, and implied I was laying it on thick. I don't speak MOP.

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You wanna audition for the next monthly column for Reader's Digest, knock yourself out, but none of these pretty nasty things you are saying bout WFH people is backed up with any data.

There are no studies showing that WFH hurts productivity, short of Mumbai call centers. Read the piece above.

IMaybe I don't know people as you say
-But I know their tendencies

No you don’t, at least not people outside of your bubble. But you’re posting like you do, making broad generalizations. That’s why people are taking issue.

There’s a whole thread of people here who are successfully WFH proving you wrong. I work with dozens of WFH co-workers who are proving you wrong. I have family and friends who WFH successfully who are proving you wrong. It’s really widespread and it works.

Again, it’s been three years of this. If WFH was really the productivity killer you say it is, widespread RTO would’ve happened as soon as the COVID numbers dipped originally.

D-I-S-C is a "Bubble" you say?
-I don't think so...
Dominance
Influence (only about 7% of the population)
Steadiness
Conscientiousness

There are 4 personality types
You all should at least learn what it is you despise about MoP

...And there was more that I edited and will start a separate thread and see how far I can go with it
Viruses are still what's driving many to stay home, PTSD from the pandemic is how I would describe it
Going to be hard to discuss certain issues, not sure we really can any more around here but it's big factor in all of this.
It's obvious

-Please don't take what I wrote personally, it's not meant that way, Scores.

 

[Atomic Punk]

This thread took a weird turn. The main point that I think needs to be understood is that you can’t assume what works for one, works for all. Just because one likes things in person to read people, doesn’t mean everyone does, etc.

We have gone full flexible hybrid, with all staff required to work three days per week (exemptions can be requested and many have been approved). Individuals can pick whatever three days they like and try to choose days where it makes sense to collaborate with colleagues. As the Director General for the 300 staff I have in three different offices across the country, I would say we are about even productivity wise. There are absolutely some slackers that take advantage of the situation and we coach managers in how to deal with them. OTOH we have a bunch of superstars that are putting in more time because they don’t have to commute. If I was to bet, I would say overall, we are much better off and will be able to reduce our lease expenditures and make a positive impact on the environment to boot.

To suggest this is a one size fits all situation is asinine.

 

[shuke]

To suggest this is a one size fits all situation is asinine.

Agreed. Way too many generalizations being thrown around in this thread. I have a team of about 30 people. A few of them are full time WFH, because they are more productive that way. A large majority are in the office most of the time because we do a lot of hands-on work (engineering). And I have a small group that is hybrid, based on the work they are doing. I really think flexibility is key.

I personally don't like WFH unless I have to. I'm less productive at home for whatever reason. And I do think collaboration is way more effective in-person.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm 64 and working from home as an IT Professional. I'm way past the point of caring. I'm retiring soon, so who cares what they decide?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This thread took a weird turn

Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Tom Servo]

The fact of the matter is that we've now had over three years of WFH to root out the people who are not productive at home. If your company is not able to do this and can't tell if people are productive or not, that's a problem with upper management.'

Also, being in in an office by itself does not mean people will be productive. I'd bet a lot that people who are not productive at home probably weren't very productive at the office either.

* slaps table * THANK YOU!
I work for an electric utility as an engineer and have been WFH since March 2020. Management saw ZERO loss in productivity from the arrangement and decided my fellow engineers and I could do either. I elected to stay home and will never go back to 0700-1530 office time.

I'm jealous. I'm an engineer that has to touch, build, test, and physically set up things in order to do my job. My dad was an engineer at a power company as well, so I remember visiting his office when I was a kid.

My engineering relates to extending service to new customers, power quality issues, etc. It’s funny because not only do I to be an engineer, but a forester, an accountant, and a public relations person. I was not taught about those things in college. LOL

 

[culdeus]

In an engineering landscape there are people that need to be in, want to be in, and don't need to be in.

It is creating a tough world to recruit people that need to be in, especially covid kids.

In our office we have a mix of maybe 10% full remote, 50% hybrid 2-3 days in/out and 40% in most days. What is different is few meetings before 9 or after 4 anymore. Even when people do come in it's for a shorter time and they knock out stuff later into the night. Is this better? Probably for most.

Is for me.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'm 64 and working from home as an IT Professional. I'm way past the point of caring. I'm retiring soon, so who cares what they decide?

I’ll be 60 on the 22nd, and I’m right there with you. I avoid inter office drama and controversies and my stress is way down.
We’re at the age where we value peace, and look for situations that give us this.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I hear you guys. I’m 53 but plan on retiring next year. I am coming in my three days a week as per our policy but it definitely is a drag in the winter and a waste of (work) time to shovel the driveway and deal with idiots on the road who forget how to drive in the winter.

 

[massraider]

I hear you guys. I’m 53 but plan on retiring next year. I am coming in my three days a week as per our policy but it definitely is a drag in the winter and a waste of (work) time to shovel the driveway and deal with idiots on the road who forget how to drive in the winter.

It's all worth it, when you get to the office, right? And get that camaraderie, the fellowship. The culture. You get to see, in person, your coworkers, and have the warm knowledge that you have a freshly shoveled driveway at home.

Can't put a price on that, people.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I’d say 50/50. Some days I’m still on Teams calls all day, so my interaction with live people is limited. But you are right, on the days I am not glued to the screen, it is actually good to have the interaction with my colleagues.

 

[Instinctive]

This thread is pretty skewed by demographics. We've done a ton of work trying to find the solution, and a couple things have jumped out:
1. For people who already know how to do the job, remote work is highly effective
2. In an industry like mine (management consulting) that is heavily team, collaboration, relationship, and youth reliant - it's super critical to have in person time. The 22 year old high achiever, even from top schools, just doesn't develop without real in person time for us - they miss out on the random 10 mins after a client meeting walking back down the hall and getting to ask questions about what happened, they miss out on body language in the room, it's harder to speak up in a team discussion when all on zoom...tons more
3. So much of what we do with clients, especially relationship building, is better in person

So at the end of the day, we're in this interesting spot where analysts and associates are clamoring for in person time, whereas the partner level is like "pick our spots, focus on clients" and slowly recognizing it's limiting the development of our next generation of talent. So we're pretty hybrid, but going more to a "default in-person, with flexibility to be remote when you need it," - which I think is the right answer for our firm anyway.

 

[the moops]

This thread took a weird turn

Probably just a coincidence.

Gotta be

 

[massraider]

Nothing really to do with this, but I figured everyone in this thread would find it funny. Got this from my Matt Levine email this morning:

Now, with WeWork in bankruptcy and his remaining shares near worthless, there is a potential for further financial gain for Neumann worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

In late 2019, SoftBank committed billions of dollars to bail out WeWork after the office company’s failed attempt at an initial public offering left it low on cash and heavy on losses. Neumann was ousted by the company’s board, but before he surrendered control of the company he founded, Neumann negotiated significant concessions and payments from SoftBank.

One concession was a roughly $430 million loan from SoftBank to Neumann that had a key feature: Neumann wasn’t personally on the hook for paying it back. Instead, if he stopped paying, SoftBank would be able to seize his shares in WeWork as collateral.

The value of that collateral has plummeted. With WeWork’s stock price near zero, Neumann’s WeWork shares are currently worth $4 million, down from around $500 million in fall 2021, according to FactSet. SoftBank executives worry that Neumann may elect to simply walk away with the money he was lent and hand over the shares, people familiar with the situation said.

Adam Neumann took SoftBank for a ride.

 

[dino259]

In the office today and just had a conversation about what socks to where with your Keens or Crocs and how cool it is to get the underlying suntan on your feet through your Crocs or Keens.

 

[Mitchie]

In the office today and just had a conversation about what socks to where with your Keens or Crocs and how cool it is to get the underlying suntan on your feet through your Crocs or Keens.

let us know when you go to lunch

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Stealing from the company is good actually.

 

[dgreen]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

 

[belljr]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require no but our team meetings we waste 10 minutes of our lead complaining about it lol. So my manager "requires" it for team meeting. It's the only time I ever have it on. One hour a week lol and half the time I leave it off until he says something....it's my weekly game now..... O/u how long until it's mentioned

 

[Scoresman]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Never. The only people who do are the execs presenting at our monthly all hands meetings.

 

[culdeus]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Never. The only people who do are the execs presenting at our monthly all hands meetings.

Same

 

[hagmania]

It doesn't matter where I'm working, I endeavor to do as little as possible and still walk in the light, so to speak.

 

[Poke_4_Life]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

 

[NutterButter]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Yes, but I frequently turn it off/on during the meeting to move about to do things like get food or something to drink.

 

[jobarules]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

In small meetings (especially 1x1s) its recommended. Large meetings, they recommend leaving off.

 

[Scoresman]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

 

[jobarules]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

Im in a tee shirt or hoodie for all my meetings

 

[Poke_4_Life]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

Putting on a dress shirt for camera is not a big ask. We're completely hybrid, and routinely have folks from home and office on calls.

To me looking decent on a video call is just common courtesy. It also sets the tone that WFH is still working.

To each their own.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

I gave a veterans day TEAMS presentation to the company on Friday, so I threw on a button down dress shirt - but I've been on camera wearing a T-Shirt a few times. Most meetings, I am not on camera at all but I follow the lead in smaller meetings and if some one goes on camera, I will. If I'm wearing a T-shirt, sobeit.

 

[fruity pebbles]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

Putting on a dress shirt for camera is not a big ask. We're completely hybrid, and routinely have folks from home and office on calls.

To me looking decent on a video call is just common courtesy. It also sets the tone that WFH is still working.

To each their own.

Seriously. You want people on zoom calls in their pajamas? At least put a little effort in. Same people wondering why they’re being asked to come back to the office,

 

[AAABatteries]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

No. I turn mine on frequently because I’m too beautiful to be off camera.

 

[Scoresman]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

Putting on a dress shirt for camera is not a big ask. We're completely hybrid, and routinely have folks from home and office on calls.

To me looking decent on a video call is just common courtesy. It also sets the tone that WFH is still working.

To each their own.

I agree it's a small ask, I just see it as pointless. I'm not suggesting taking zoom calls in a stained undershirt or anything, but requiring a dress shirt just seems silly to me for most office jobs.

And how many people are sitting there in their dress shirt, but also not wearing pants? Do the managers and executives make everyone stand up and prove they're all wearing pants? They should if the point is to keep WFH aesthetically professional.

But I have a bias because I've always been an advocate of casual office attire even before WFH. I work better if I'm more comfortable. I can be in jeans and a polo and still come across as professional by my demeanor, actions, and quality of work. The idea of formal attire for the office seems so outdated to me.

 

[belljr]

For those who work remotely or have a lot of online meetings (Zoom, Teams, etc.), does your organization require cameras to be on?

Require is a strong term. For really large meetings, not so much. For meetings w/ less than 20 or if presenting/supporting, definitely encouraged to be on camera. Also, we expect basically office level attire when on camera. I keep a dress shirt near my desk for impromptu calls.

This is how you know these policies are simply old executives clinging to their familiar office lifestyles and pushing it on everyone else without any basis in increased productivity. There is absolutely zero reason to have to dress up for a zoom call.

Putting on a dress shirt for camera is not a big ask. We're completely hybrid, and routinely have folks from home and office on calls.

To me looking decent on a video call is just common courtesy. It also sets the tone that WFH is still working.

To each their own.

What if you don't wear dress shirts to the office?....