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How Much Voter Fraud Happened In 2020? (1 Viewer)

How much voter fraud do you think happened in 2020?

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the outcome.

    Votes: 8 1.7%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the outcome.

    Votes: 4 0.8%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a real impact

    Votes: 65 13.7%

  • I voted for Biden and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impact at all

    Votes: 269 56.9%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the outcome.

    Votes: 26 5.5%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the outcome.

    Votes: 23 4.9%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a real impact

    Votes: 14 3.0%

  • I voted for Trump and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impact at all

    Votes: 8 1.7%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was rampant - enough to impact the ou

    Votes: 7 1.5%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was real - enough to maybe impact the

    Votes: 11 2.3%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was minimal - not enough to make a re

    Votes: 20 4.2%

  • I voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote and I think Voter Fraud was virtually non existent - no impac

    Votes: 18 3.8%
  • Total voters
    473
Godsbrother said:
It seems like it would be pretty simple to open up the voting machines and dump out the code and examine if any algorithm was in place that manipulated votes.   Makes a heckuva lot more sense than what Rudy is trying to do.
Click to expand...
Or subpeona the voting machine maker for an examination of the source code. 

 
Of course it would be easy to figure out...but that isn't the point.  They know their claims are bogus...they know they will keep losing in court.  But they have to play it out in the media first to get their base further entrenched so that any court losses don't matter...just keep new theories in the media long enough to milk more division and ore money from the supporters.

 
Is there any doubt at this point that Trump’s only goal here is to lineup subscribers for his new TV channel?

 
Alex P Keaton said:
If he doesn’t have compelling evidence/proof, he should be charged with treason.
Click to expand...
I don't know about treason, I'll leave that to you guys to speculate on.  But Trump's lawyers are being quite clear that they have definitive proof of major wrongdoing and that the election was stolen and they are about to prove it.  If they are really doing nothing but waiting on evidence to come out, or trying to manipulate opinion, it's going to look really bad on their side.

I know this board laughs about it and treats this as nothing, but Trump has a lot of supporters and they are all buying into this.

Both sides of this are quite concerning.

1. If the allegations are true, it would be the biggest political scandal.....of all time.

2. If they aren't true, or if Trump and team are basically just floating conspiracy theories to see if they stick, that's incredibly damaging in itself.  It also opens up the nefarious possibility that they know they have nothing, but are trying to influence public opinion.  But if that's true, why?  It makes no sense to make claims that the fraud is this bad, if they have nothing.  Unless the goal is simply to convince their followers (and state legislatures) of the scope of the fraud, without ever providing the damning evidence that backs up their claims?  I've already seen some on the right talking about marches and protests in front of the state legislatures of PA/WI/MI/GA, but would those state legislatures even consider making the bold moves of sending Trump electors based on twitter conspiracies and innuendo?  It's hard to imagine that they would.  

So to me, I think this is Trump trying to stay relevant and eventually conceding, claiming it was fraud, and taking his shtick (and as many viewers as possible) to his television networks.  But that's a fine line he's walking....

 
Marc E. Elias

@marceelias

·

17m

BREAKING: Plaintiffs DISMISS lawsuit claiming that illegal ballots were counted to change the results and seeking to exclude presidential-election results from Wayne, Washtenaw, and Ingham counties. Trump and allies are now 1-21 in court.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marceelias

 
Marc E. Elias

@marceelias

BREAKING: Plaintiffs DISMISS Georgia lawsuit claiming election officials included illegal results and seeking to to stop the certification of presidential election results from certain counties. Trump and allies are now 1-23 in court.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marceelias

 
Mile High said:
Marc E. Elias

@marceelias

BREAKING: Plaintiffs DISMISS Georgia lawsuit claiming election officials included illegal results and seeking to to stop the certification of presidential election results from certain counties. Trump and allies are now 1-23 in court.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marceelias
Click to expand...
It's not often you lose 3 court cases before you're done with your pot of Monday morning coffee. 

 
shader said:
If they aren't true, or if Trump and team are basically just floating conspiracy theories to see if they stick, that's incredibly damaging in itself.  It also opens up the nefarious possibility that they know they have nothing, but are trying to influence public opinion.  But if that's true, why?  It makes no sense to make claims that the fraud is this bad, if they have nothing.  Unless the goal is simply to convince their followers (and state legislatures) of the scope of the fraud, without ever providing the damning evidence that backs up their claims? 
Click to expand...
To me, the parts in red are right on. These suits are being filed cynically, by lawyers and Trump staffers that absolutely know there's no basis.

Can't prove it, but it wouldn't shock me in the least to eventually hear Giuliani and other Trump staffers confess to thwarting this election-overturning effort via filing of superfluous no-chance lawsuits.

 
On Friday, a Michigan state court dismissed one of Trump's lawsuits regarding election fraud, having determined that the affidavits submitted in support of the lawsuit were hearsay and lacked credibility.  Today, the Trump team appealed that order and asked for immediate summary reversal of the lower court's decision, without argument. (link)  These lawyers are just stealing money from gullible Trump donors at this point.  Appealing a trial court's factual determination on credibility?  Its a near-zero chance of success. 

 
shader said:
I don't know about treason, I'll leave that to you guys to speculate on.  But Trump's lawyers are being quite clear that they have definitive proof of major wrongdoing and that the election was stolen and they are about to prove it.  If they are really doing nothing but waiting on evidence to come out, or trying to manipulate opinion, it's going to look really bad on their side.

I know this board laughs about it and treats this as nothing, but Trump has a lot of supporters and they are all buying into this.

Both sides of this are quite concerning.

1. If the allegations are true, it would be the biggest political scandal.....of all time.

2. If they aren't true, or if Trump and team are basically just floating conspiracy theories to see if they stick, that's incredibly damaging in itself.  It also opens up the nefarious possibility that they know they have nothing, but are trying to influence public opinion.  But if that's true, why?  It makes no sense to make claims that the fraud is this bad, if they have nothing.  Unless the goal is simply to convince their followers (and state legislatures) of the scope of the fraud, without ever providing the damning evidence that backs up their claims?  I've already seen some on the right talking about marches and protests in front of the state legislatures of PA/WI/MI/GA, but would those state legislatures even consider making the bold moves of sending Trump electors based on twitter conspiracies and innuendo?  It's hard to imagine that they would.  

So to me, I think this is Trump trying to stay relevant and eventually conceding, claiming it was fraud, and taking his shtick (and as many viewers as possible) to his television networks.  But that's a fine line he's walking....
Click to expand...
The bolded is what he's been doing for 4 years. I will be floored if this time is any different.

 
shader said:
Alex P Keaton said:
If he doesn’t have compelling evidence/proof, he should be charged with treason.
Click to expand...
I don't know about treason, I'll leave that to you guys to speculate on.  But Trump's lawyers are being quite clear that they have definitive proof of major wrongdoing and that the election was stolen and they are about to prove it.  If they are really doing nothing but waiting on evidence to come out, or trying to manipulate opinion, it's going to look really bad on their side.

I know this board laughs about it and treats this as nothing, but Trump has a lot of supporters and they are all buying into this.

Both sides of this are quite concerning.

1. If the allegations are true, it would be the biggest political scandal.....of all time.

2. If they aren't true, or if Trump and team are basically just floating conspiracy theories to see if they stick, that's incredibly damaging in itself.  It also opens up the nefarious possibility that they know they have nothing, but are trying to influence public opinion.  But if that's true, why?  It makes no sense to make claims that the fraud is this bad, if they have nothing.  Unless the goal is simply to convince their followers (and state legislatures) of the scope of the fraud, without ever providing the damning evidence that backs up their claims?  I've already seen some on the right talking about marches and protests in front of the state legislatures of PA/WI/MI/GA, but would those state legislatures even consider making the bold moves of sending Trump electors based on twitter conspiracies and innuendo?  It's hard to imagine that they would.  

So to me, I think this is Trump trying to stay relevant and eventually conceding, claiming it was fraud, and taking his shtick (and as many viewers as possible) to his television networks.  But that's a fine line he's walking....
Click to expand...
You seem to believe that telling lies and unapologetically promoting conspiracy theories are somehow "damaging" to the Republican party.

You would be wrong.

It's not 1956 anymore. Truth and integrity are dead. There are no consequences for lying or for being conspiratorial anymore.

 
Joe Summer said:
You seem to believe that telling lies and unapologetically promoting conspiracy theories are somehow "damaging" to the Republican party.

You would be wrong.

It's not 1956 anymore. Truth and integrity are dead. There are no consequences for lying or for being conspiratorial anymore.
Click to expand...
Exactly.  @shader, tell me when your republican friends stop supporting the party based on the lies they've perpetuated.  And mark my words, these claims in court of massive vote rigging and election altering fraud are lies.

 
The Z Machine said:
huh?  I don't understand this.
Click to expand...
I would assume he means everyone who supports Biden or is pushing the idea that the election was legitimate is about to look dumb because their is some major info that’s about to drop they will swing it for Trump. 

 
Not fraud/conspiracy per se, but I can account for a neighbor who went to vote and was told he had already voted 4 hours earlier.  This is why I don't like the idea of not having to present ID when you vote. To me, this isn't really a workable scheme to pull off on a large scale, but whatever the reason it happened, my neighbor's right to vote was taken from him when it shouldn't have been.

 
I assume many are watching OAN who still haven’t called Michigan or Penn or Arizona and say Trump still has a chance of winning. They don’t have any kind of election staff or data people or decision desk and admit it’s just that they “feel like Trump still has a chance of winning”.  

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Not fraud/conspiracy per se, but I can account for a neighbor who went to vote and was told he had already voted 4 hours earlier.  This is why I don't like the idea of not having to present ID when you vote. To me, this isn't really a workable scheme to pull off on a large scale, but whatever the reason it happened, my neighbor's right to vote was taken from him when it shouldn't have been.
Click to expand...
Did he challenge it and provide ID? He certainly can make a case right there. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Did he challenge it and provide ID? He certainly can make a case right there. 
Click to expand...
As of now, all we know is that he left the polls without voting and looking into challenging, but haven't heard anything since.  His wife and my wife are friends, so I heard it through her but I'll ask about it. 

Showing ID didn't seem to be the policy; I showed my ID as a reflex but the guy next to me just told them his name and address and they gave him a ballot without seeing any proof.

 
Ilov80s said:
Charlie Steiner said:
Not fraud/conspiracy per se, but I can account for a neighbor who went to vote and was told he had already voted 4 hours earlier.  This is why I don't like the idea of not having to present ID when you vote. To me, this isn't really a workable scheme to pull off on a large scale, but whatever the reason it happened, my neighbor's right to vote was taken from him when it shouldn't have been.
Click to expand...
Did he challenge it and provide ID? He certainly can make a case right there. 
Click to expand...
We are asked for a picture ID but a utility bill will work too and your signature has to match.  Never realize there was anywhere you could just show up tell them you're John Smith at 123 Elm Street, and they give you a ballot.  That seems really weird.  Not to mention they throw you in prison for a long time if you are committing voter fraud and it almost certainly has no impact on the election.

Anyhow, just chiming in that every day Trump doesn't concede is costing us lives.   Biden and his administration needs to be involved now with the distribution of the Covid vaccine.  Every day he doesn't concede is one more day of hell we all have to live through.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
2Squirrels1Nut said:
We are asked for a picture ID but a utility bill will work too and your signature has to match.  Never realize there was anywhere you could just show up tell them you're John Smith and they give you a ballot.  That seems really weird.  Not to mention they throw you in prison for a long time if you are committing voter fraud and it almost certainly has no impact on the election.
Click to expand...
I've been voting since '84 and this is the first time I recall not needing to show ID. In fact, the volunteer at the polls seems surprised I gave my ID.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
I've been voting since '84 and this is the first time I recall not needing to show ID. In fact, the volunteer at the polls seems surprised I gave my ID.
Click to expand...
In PA only first time voters need to provide ID.  Once they have your signature on record they just compare it to your new signature when you come to vote.  Personally I think IDs would be easier but then they can be faked too.

 
Godsbrother said:
In PA only first time voters need to provide ID.  Once they have your signature on record they just compare it to your new signature when you come to vote.  Personally I think IDs would be easier but then they can be faked too.
Click to expand...
They weren't asking for/comparing signatures either.

I have nothing against making voting as easy as possible, but there has to be some standard.

 
The Z Machine said:
Exactly.  @shader, tell me when your republican friends stop supporting the party based on the lies they've perpetuated.  And mark my words, these claims in court of massive vote rigging and election altering fraud are lies.
Click to expand...
I have republican friends?  I'm not a republican. I mean, I guess I work with republicans, but I try not to talk politics irl.  I don't even consider this politics, just current events...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I went to vote, my address on my license didn’t match the one on my voter registration (but still in the same town). I have lived in my house for 20 years and voted in pretty much every election since I moved in. That shows you how little effort they make here in terms of verifying voter information. Does that mean I committed voter fraud in all those other elections?

 
Godsbrother said:
In PA only first time voters need to provide ID.  Once they have your signature on record they just compare it to your new signature when you come to vote.  Personally I think IDs would be easier but then they can be faked too.
Click to expand...
In Miami-Dade  (and I think elsewhere in Florida) a picture ID is required for early voting. They already have your address on file, so no address ID is required, unless you've moved. The software prints out the proper ballot based on your address, so you can go to any of the 20+ early voting sites in the county during the nearly 2 week period. Really convenient. And it provides supplemental income for a few hundred mostly older adults at polling sites,  plus the crews that setup and breakdown. 

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Not fraud/conspiracy per se, but I can account for a neighbor who went to vote and was told he had already voted 4 hours earlier.  This is why I don't like the idea of not having to present ID when you vote. To me, this isn't really a workable scheme to pull off on a large scale, but whatever the reason it happened, my neighbor's right to vote was taken from him when it shouldn't have been.
Click to expand...
I have no idea with the right is doing, but it feels like they are trying to establish "reasonable doubt" that the election was fair.  Stories such as this one, claims that the software is built in a way that COULD be rigged, claims that votes weren't supervised, claims that ballots came in without addresses and that weren't stamped....It feels like they are trying to show that fraud COULD have happened, without actually showing that it did happen.  

 
shader said:
I have no idea with the right is doing, but it feels like they are trying to establish "reasonable doubt" that the election was fair.  Stories such as this one, claims that the software is built in a way that COULD be rigged, claims that votes weren't supervised, claims that ballots came in without addresses and that weren't stamped....It feels like they are trying to show that fraud COULD have happened, without actually showing that it did happen.  
Click to expand...
Mistakes absolutely happen every national election, and probably affect a number of people/ballots nationwide in the low 5 digits.

Intentional fraud is another matter entirely.

EDIT: I am referring to in-person balloting -- the mistake rate with mail-in ballots is higher, chiefly due to unsigned ballots and ballots mailed too late.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
shader said:
I have republican friends?  I'm not a republican. I mean, I guess I work with republicans, but I try not to talk politics irl.  I don't even consider this politics, just current events...
Click to expand...
Yes, I assume you have republican friends.  I have lived in very liberal areas and I have republican friends.

 
shader said:
I have no idea with the right is doing, but it feels like they are trying to establish "reasonable doubt" that the election was fair.  Stories such as this one, claims that the software is built in a way that COULD be rigged, claims that votes weren't supervised, claims that ballots came in without addresses and that weren't stamped....It feels like they are trying to show that fraud COULD have happened, without actually showing that it did happen.  
Click to expand...
Reasonable doubt is not the standard that is required to disenfranchise entire states, cities, or populations.

 
Mile High said:
Maggie Haberman

@maggieNYT

NEW - Trump has put Rudy Giuliani in charge of his campaign lawsuits related to the outcome of the election, as well as all public communications
Click to expand...
The decision to put Rudy in charge tells me two things:

ONE: that Trump's fundraising grift has been a total failure, and he has not raised enough money to pay for the best law firms.

and

TWO: that Trump knows he can't win.

It's just political theatre now.

 
Sea Duck said:
The decision to put Rudy in charge tells me two things:

ONE: that Trump's fundraising grift has been a total failure, and he has not raised enough money to pay for the best law firms.

and

TWO: that Trump knows he can't win.

It's just political theatre now.
Click to expand...
The "best" law firms might also pass because of the merits and the risk to their reputation.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
Not fraud/conspiracy per se, but I can account for a neighbor who went to vote and was told he had already voted 4 hours earlier.  This is why I don't like the idea of not having to present ID when you vote. To me, this isn't really a workable scheme to pull off on a large scale, but whatever the reason it happened, my neighbor's right to vote was taken from him when it shouldn't have been.
Click to expand...
This is the exception that proves the rule.  If we were seeing in person voter fraud on a mass level, shouldn't we be hearing about 100s of thousands of people having the exact same problem as your neighbor?  But we're not.

As for your neighbor, I'd guess that the most likely error is that the poll work checked the wrong box when s/he handed the in person ballot to likely the person just above or below the name of your neighbor on the voter roll.  Far more likely for human clerical error than someone intentionally committing in person voter fraud. 

 
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