I believe the economy may be really bad right now. (1 Viewer)

[NutterButter]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

i think $14 per hour for a teenage job is pretty solid. i wouldn't recommend trying to support a family on it though.

And what's a bad wage for a teen?

Your wages 30 years ago, aren't really relevant are they?

Not sure. Probably a lot of grey like anything. I can say that $14 for a teen is solid. And why aren't my wages from 30 years ago relevant? I was stating those to try to compare min wage increase vs the cost of a McDonald's #3 value meal increase even though I don't recall the price of that. I don't even know what a #3 is. I guess the same comparison can be made for something like gas which is another big expense for a teenager. That's about in line with the min wage increase.

 

[NutterButter]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

Yeah, that seems like an awful job but I also don't love children like some people do. Maybe if you substitute the kids for dogs, I'd be cool with that.

 

[jobarules]

I feel the shifting of priorities amongst people is often overlooked regarding spending habits.

Millennials and GenZ will complain to anyone who will listen that buying a home is simply out of reach for them. But, compare them to someone in the 70's - perhaps most of the 90's and you'll find a person who spends like crazy on daily comforts compared to their elders.

Nobody used to spend $200 month at Starbucks, another $500 month on DoorDash, drop $250 on a concert once a month. The reason many are able to do this is they are willing to live with Mom & Dad into their 30's. 'In my day' we still wanted to get out on our own as fast as possible. Just doesn't seem to be a priority for many young people anymore. Maybe the return of the multi-generational household is coming back? That might not be all bad.

GET OFF MY LAWN

This is nonsense. People cant afford a home and it has nothing to do with buying coffee. Please your numbers are an exaggeration. $200 a month would be 40 $5 coffees a month. $500 a month on DoorDash? Thats $125 a week. Why would a single person spend that much on food in a week especially if they are living at home.

 

[Todem]

I know right. These teenagers just standing there helping us geezers with the self checkout getting paid $16 bucks per hour.

If they work 40 hours they take home about $450 then?

You think this is a lot of money where, and for who?

We are talking about teenagers.....in high school, not adults in the work force.

So yeah a teenager working part time making 16 bucks an hour living at
home is fine.

An adult working 40 hours a week at that wage is in trouble. Unskilled workforce workers are in a heap of trouble.

In fact where I live it's becoming a crisis finding help in the restaurant industry because no one can afford the rents here.

It's out of control.

 

[Orange&Blue]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

 

[-OZ-]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

It’s sad that teachers being underpaid is considered political.
But yeah.

 

[Peggy]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

i think $14 per hour for a teenage job is pretty solid. i wouldn't recommend trying to support a family on it though.

And what's a bad wage for a teen?

Your wages 30 years ago, aren't really relevant are they?

Not sure. Probably a lot of grey like anything. I can say that $14 for a teen is solid. And why aren't my wages from 30 years ago relevant? I was stating those to try to compare min wage increase vs the cost of a McDonald's #3 value meal increase even though I don't recall the price of that. I don't even know what a #3 is. I guess the same comparison can be made for something like gas which is another big expense for a teenager. That's about in line with the min wage increase.

1986 Big Mac $1.60
1Wage $3.35

Mac/Wage Ratio: 0.478

2023 Big Mac $5.60
Wage $14.00

Mac/Wage Ratio: 0.400

They are about in line like you said.

Two adults working at that wage full time gets you to median household income in the US.

 

[The Z Machine]

You can't directly compare wages though, right? It's really the total benefit package. Things have changed pretty dramatically in health insurance and retirement since 1986.

 

[the moops]

If they work 40 hours they take home about $450 then?

You think this is a lot of money where, and for who?

For a teenager this is absolutely a lot of money

 

[culdeus]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

 

[Orange&Blue]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

 

[culdeus]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

 

[the moops]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

60K is garbage pay for what teachers do. That is like Walmart assistant manager pay. And pension at 20 years is not what you are making it out to be. You would retire with like 20K a year tops after just 20 years of teaching

 

[culdeus]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

60K is garbage pay for what teachers do. That is like Walmart assistant manager pay. And pension at 20 years is not what you are making it out to be. You would retire with like 20K a year tops after just 20 years of teaching

They also don't in Texas pay into social security (last I checked) so if they manage to grab a spouse they can double dip. It's certainly not awful pay in Texas if the cards are played right.

 

[the moops]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

60K is garbage pay for what teachers do. That is like Walmart assistant manager pay. And pension at 20 years is not what you are making it out to be. You would retire with like 20K a year tops after just 20 years of teaching

They also don't in Texas pay into social security (last I checked) so if they manage to grab a spouse they can double dip. It's certainly not awful pay in Texas if the cards are played right.

Oh that sweet sweet social security pay which is averaging 1700 bucks a month right now

 

[culdeus]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

60K is garbage pay for what teachers do. That is like Walmart assistant manager pay. And pension at 20 years is not what you are making it out to be. You would retire with like 20K a year tops after just 20 years of teaching

They also don't in Texas pay into social security (last I checked) so if they manage to grab a spouse they can double dip. It's certainly not awful pay in Texas if the cards are played right.

Oh that sweet sweet social security pay which is averaging 1700 bucks a month right now

Curious how much you think people are entitled to?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

lol...that is heavily dependent upon location.

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that and those in poorer states make a lot less. For example, mean for south dakota, Mississippi, and west Virginia is around 50k.

And that is working 53 hours a week per Rand study.

Survey: Teachers Work More Hours Per Week Than Other Working Adults | NEA

Higher pay is crucial, but working conditions and well-being must also be addressed to attract and retain educators.

www.nea.org

I mean laugh at you want, like I said most districts post their pay scales. Places with decent economies, shockingly pay their teachers. Funny how that works.

60K is garbage pay for what teachers do. That is like Walmart assistant manager pay. And pension at 20 years is not what you are making it out to be. You would retire with like 20K a year tops after just 20 years of teaching

They also don't in Texas pay into social security (last I checked) so if they manage to grab a spouse they can double dip. It's certainly not awful pay in Texas if the cards are played right.

Oh that sweet sweet social security pay which is averaging 1700 bucks a month right now

Curious how much you think people are entitled to?

pretty sure moops is commenting on how $1700 isn't that much money....

 

[-OZ-]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

That’s probably true in many places. My wife is preschool teacher with lesson plans and high expectations. Almost every person that works there has a college degree, or at least an associate’s.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

the mean across US is 62k as of 2022. Higher cost of living areas can't live on that

Teachers that live where the cost of living are higher don’t have to live on that - their wages are higher there. Thats how averages work

My friend and his wife each make a little over 100k as teachers (they’re in their 50s now though, so it’s been over time).

 

[3C's]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

My daughter was a school teacher. She with a bachelors+ made less than my son who works at Walmart and there was no pension. Adjusted for hours worked she was making just above what many fast food places are apparently paying now.

And when you say "decent" money, sure they are making decent money but it's considerably less than other college educated professions, and those other professions don't have the headaches of dealing with 30 kids on a daily basis. According to the Economic Policy Institute teachers earn 23.5 percent less before benefits adjustment than comparable college graduates. https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/

You don't go into teaching for the money; you can make more for less effort doing a lot of other jobs.

 

[Todem]

teenagers someone mentioned their teenagers worked at 5 guys and that they get paid crap.

If minimum wage isn't crap, what's crap?

Preschool teachers here make $10-15/hr. To deal with 1-5 year old kids. And ridiculous parents. That’s getting paid crap for the work they do. And they don’t get tips other than the occasional gift, like twice a year if that.

almost all teachers are criminally underpaid. when you can make more at a damn gas station that is all you need to understand why our country sucks at education.

yes, i know we spend a lot on education. but it isn't going to teachers. moving on to avoid political discussion.

Preschool teachers are daycare people, it's called pre-school for marketing.

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

My daughter was a school teacher. She with a bachelors+ made less than my son who works at Walmart and there was no pension. Adjusted for hours worked she was making just above what many fast food places are apparently paying now.

And when you say "decent" money, sure they are making decent money but it's considerably less than other college educated professions, and those other professions don't have the headaches of dealing with 30 kids on a daily basis. According to the Economic Policy Institute teachers earn 23.5 percent less before benefits adjustment than comparable college graduates. https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/

You don't go into teaching for the money; you can make more for less effort doing a lot of other jobs.

And that's a tragedy.

 

[ChiefD]

If they work 40 hours they take home about $450 then?

You think this is a lot of money where, and for who?

For a teenager this is absolutely a lot of money

Yeah, my 18 year old son makes about $17.00 an hour at Home Depot and works about 20 hours a week. Brings home about $450 every two weeks. He's been there for two years and has saved up almost $10K.

So he will use that for college and he also pays most of his car bills (we pay the insurance). He actually has enough credits to graduate high school so he can work in the afternoons this next semester and then full time this summer until he goes to college. So he should be able to bank another $5k hopefully.

The nice thing is Home Depot also will let you transfer to a store near your college so those opportunities are available for him. Oh, and he's also been in their 401k for two years even as a part time employee.

If any of you guys have kids who need their first job at 16 you could do worse than Home Depot.

 

[belljr]

Man my daughter $12 camp counselor job is getting screwed lol

 

[massraider]

https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1737112877667123636

The number of people describing the economy as "very good" just hit its highest levels in almost 3 years. (That being said it's remarkable how highly people rated the economy in 2019. We're nowhere close to those levels)

 

[MAC_32]

You don't go into teaching for the money; you can make more for less effort doing a lot of other jobs.

Right, which is all the more reason to be alarmed about what teaching in 2023 is like and the shortage its having on those coming up through the pipeline. It was one thing when they were paid on the low end of the college grad scale, but were providing the value that caused them to go into teaching in the first place. That's no longer the case, so why would any rationale and reasonably intelligent person go into the profession - the lack of a question mark is intentional.

 

[3C's]

You don't go into teaching for the money; you can make more for less effort doing a lot of other jobs.

Right, which is all the more reason to be alarmed about what teaching in 2023 is like and the shortage its having on those coming up through the pipeline. It was one thing when they were paid on the low end of the college grad scale, but were providing the value that caused them to go into teaching in the first place. That's no longer the case, so why would any rationale and reasonably intelligent person go into the profession - the lack of a question mark is intentional.

My daughter went into teaching after spending a few years/summers working in pre-k. Before that she was pursuing criminal justice. She found her calling to be helping kids and to make matters "worse" she intentionally chose to take a job at a Title I school. I blame her mom cuz she definitely didn't get that from me.

 

[Stoneworker]

https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1737112877667123636

The number of people describing the economy as "very good" just hit its highest levels in almost 3 years. (That being said it's remarkable how highly people rated the economy in 2019. We're nowhere close to those levels)

Very good = 7%

Very bad = 38%

 

[Battersbox]

I feel the shifting of priorities amongst people is often overlooked regarding spending habits.

Millennials and GenZ will complain to anyone who will listen that buying a home is simply out of reach for them. But, compare them to someone in the 70's - perhaps most of the 90's and you'll find a person who spends like crazy on daily comforts compared to their elders.

Nobody used to spend $200 month at Starbucks, another $500 month on DoorDash, drop $250 on a concert once a month. The reason many are able to do this is they are willing to live with Mom & Dad into their 30's. 'In my day' we still wanted to get out on our own as fast as possible. Just doesn't seem to be a priority for many young people anymore. Maybe the return of the multi-generational household is coming back? That might not be all bad.

GET OFF MY LAWN

This is nonsense. People cant afford a home and it has nothing to do with buying coffee. Please your numbers are an exaggeration. $200 a month would be 40 $5 coffees a month. $500 a month on DoorDash? Thats $125 a week. Why would a single person spend that much on food in a week especially if they are living at home.

These numbers are far more realistic than you give credit for. Coffees/drinks at Starbucks are not $5 anymore. Every bit of $8 on average. And $125/week on Doordash...absolutely. I'm guessing you don't know many urban 20-somethings or inspect what they're doing with their money. They are often doing exactly this. Heck, even college kids are spending crazy amounts per month on doordash...my daughter in her dorm spent 200-300 per month on door dash while she HAD A MEAL PLAN PAID FOR. I know for a fact many, many kids do exactly the same.

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

 

[massraider]

Come on.

Pretending young people are bad with their money while older people aren't is simply silly.

 

[Battersbox]

If they work 40 hours they take home about $450 then?

You think this is a lot of money where, and for who?

For a teenager this is absolutely a lot of money

also 40 x 16 = 640. No way that should be down to 450 take-home.

Teens don't lose that much from taxes & withholding. Not even close.

I feel like $16 per hour is a lot for a 16 year old to flip burgers.

 

[Battersbox]

Come on.

Pretending young people are bad with their money while older people aren't is simply silly.

If that's aimed at me, I'm not saying that at all. I think most people suck with money, no matter their age.

I'm saying if people in their 20's wanted to buy a home, their priorities would change. I'm saying people didn't spend on frivolities in past decades like they do now.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

 

[Battersbox]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

 

[Keerock]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Yep... agreed. But if that's your choice, don't cry victim when you can't afford a house

 

[beer 30]

You can't directly compare wages though, right? It's really the total benefit package. Things have changed pretty dramatically in health insurance and retirement since 1986.

You're saying McD's employees are getting health insurance & retirement? I don't think that's true for the shift worker

Real teachers are making decent money. Most school districts don't hide their pay scale, the one we are in are like 60-85k depending on seniority and a pension at 20yrs. Very few college jobs have a pension behind it anymore.

My daughter is a real teacher, been one since she graduated cum laude in 2016. She gets paid $38,000 in South Carolina in one of the best school systems in the state. Her entire life, all she's wanted to do is teach. She is one of the best teachers on staff and after one more year her contract will be up and she will either try to re-locate to chase $$$ or just quit the profession. There are some states that pay teachers, there are plenty that don't. I hate to see her dream just crushed like this but there is no future for her in teaching in SC. The amount of teachers from her university (Winthrop, considered to be one of the best in the Southeast for education) is abysmally low. I think her graduating class was 400-500? Last year it was less than 100. There is a growing teacher crisis in the US that no one wants to acknowledge but is going to happen all of a sudden and the collective, "oh my, how did that happen?" will be much too late to fix it.

 

[massraider]

I feel like $16 per hour is a lot for a 16 year old to flip burgers

Compared to what?

What's bad pay for a teen? I keep asking this

 

[massraider]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

 

[Battersbox]

I feel like $16 per hour is a lot for a 16 year old to flip burgers

Compared to what?

What's bad pay for a teen? I keep asking this

Well, bad pay would be $10 an hour for that job given how pricing has moved the past few years.

Not seeing your point.

 

[Battersbox]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

What's bad pay for a teen? I keep asking this

My daughter's first job was $8/hr at a movie theater. Second was $12.50/hr to tutor math up through Calculus. I would say both of those were bad pay, particularly the movie theater which was run by a bunch of morons.

 

[Stoneworker]

Evidently millennials can spend, but have difficulty saving.

67% of millennials have $0 saved for a house down payment. 83% have less than $10K. Source: 2023 Apartment List

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My wife and I have always lived fairly frugally -- our first house was a "starter house" that we ended up raising both kids in. And the interest rate that we paid on our first mortgage wasn't that much lower than what people are stuck paying today. But the difference is that we expected a 7.5% interest rate and saved accordingly. If I were in my mid-20s looking for a house today, after growing up with near-zero interest rates and watching them spike for reasons that had nothing to do with me, I'd be pissed about it.

I mean, yeah obviously ditch the Door Dash and Starbucks. But the underlying reality is that first-time homebuyers really have sort of taken it in the ### here.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Yeah, for the record the housing market sucks right now for first time buyers. Some areas are better than others of course, but there's no doubt most young people are going to have to spend a larger percentage of their salary on a home than previous generations. What I think is overblown is this idea that it's just impossible. The level of consumption that has grown to be the baseline expectation of people in this country really is out of whack with 30 years ago, and this is a contributor to the issue.

 

[Battersbox]

I'd be curious to see data on discretionary spending as a percentage of net earnings.

A 24 year old directly out of college making $50k/year, maybe brings home $40k. If that kid spends $1k/month on eating out/Starbucks/doordash/ etc...that's 30% of their take home earnings.

How would that compare to the average 24 year old in 2010, 2000, 1990, etc. I assume kids today are more profligate, but I could be wrong.

 

[jobarules]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

Even if this were true, it would take your daughter 5 years of saving that $8 per day instead of spending it on coffee to save enough for a 5% downpayment on a $300k house.

ITS NOT THE COFFEE

 

[Battersbox]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

Even if this were true, it would take your daughter 5 years of saving that $8 per day instead of spending it on coffee to save enough for a 5% downpayment on a $300k house.

ITS NOT THE COFFEE

Is coffee the only thing I cited? Is $300k the cheapest house in America?

Stop being a doosh and laughing at my posts. If you'd like to disagree, do so in a respectful manner. That or ignore me, whatever.

 

[jobarules]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

Even if this were true, it would take your daughter 5 years of saving that $8 per day instead of spending it on coffee to save enough for a 5% downpayment on a $300k house.

ITS NOT THE COFFEE

Is coffee the only thing I cited? Is $300k the cheapest house in America?

Stop being a doosh and laughing at my posts. If you'd like to disagree, do so in a respectful manner. That or ignore me, whatever.

This was a laughable statement

I'm saying people didn't spend on frivolities in past decades like they do now.

 

[Battersbox]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

Even if this were true, it would take your daughter 5 years of saving that $8 per day instead of spending it on coffee to save enough for a 5% downpayment on a $300k house.

ITS NOT THE COFFEE

Is coffee the only thing I cited? Is $300k the cheapest house in America?

Stop being a doosh and laughing at my posts. If you'd like to disagree, do so in a respectful manner. That or ignore me, whatever.

This was a laughable statement

I'm saying people didn't spend on frivolities in past decades like they do now.

I disagree.

If you disagree, that's fine. Say so. Maybe even explain your thinking.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

my experience today:

The places I visited today would be absolutely jam packed in years past. Would be bumper-to-bumper traffic just getting into the parking lot in the parking lot so full people are parking on the grass.

Instead, there was plenty of parking and I was able to get in and get out with no lines.

Overheard multiple people complaining about how everything is so expensive.

My sticker shock moment was Christmas lights.$25.99 for 300 (small) Christmas lights?!?!? if I recall correctly, I used to buy these things for like five bucks each Max.

 

[jobarules]

If people prioritize buying a house, it can still be done absolutely. Some places are harder to buy than others, of course. But don't tell me people in their 20's aren't commonly blowing $1k a month on frivolities. They are. Obviously they are, or we wouldn't have these consumer spending numbers staying where they are.

My sister-in-law went through this with her son and his wife. Both college educated with decent jobs and they were saying they couldn't afford anything in their not very expensive area. Turns out $800/month in entertainment was non-negotiable. Which hey, their money, their choice, but it's a little rich to cry poverty when you're taking multiple vacations a year and eating out all the time.

To be fair, I know older people who spend like drunken idiots too (got to have that new car every two years!). It seems like it might be a little worse with the younger crew, but I'd like to see data.

Yes. This.

And I'll agree 100% with 'their money, their choices'. They prioritize vacationing & eating out & fancy coffees. That's fine. Nobody says they have to have the same priorities as their parents & grandparents did. But the context matters and is often overlooked.

Context of what?

There is much data that college and a home are significantly more out of reach for young people.

This is not disqualified because young people buy coffee

It's not that young people buy coffee.

It's that young people buy coffee at exorbitant prices.

I buy coffee, every single day. But I pay cents per cup, rather than $8 per cup. My daughter feels no regret spending $8 every day at Starbucks.

Even if this were true, it would take your daughter 5 years of saving that $8 per day instead of spending it on coffee to save enough for a 5% downpayment on a $300k house.

ITS NOT THE COFFEE

Is coffee the only thing I cited? Is $300k the cheapest house in America?

Stop being a doosh and laughing at my posts. If you'd like to disagree, do so in a respectful manner. That or ignore me, whatever.

This was a laughable statement

I'm saying people didn't spend on frivolities in past decades like they do now.

I disagree.

If you disagree, that's fine. Say so. Maybe even explain your thinking.

I have no idea how old you are but when you were in your 20s you stayed home every weekend and saved all your money instead of hitting up the clubs, going out to eat, going to movies, spending money on new CDs, etc?