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[icon]'s whiskey flipping thread (1 Viewer)

So my wife just called me from the liquor store and said they have Pappy 12 for $330 and 20 for $1000/bottle. These are ludicrous numbers right? Or do I have to buy this no matter the cost???

 
The last time I ordered 20 year Pappy from a distributor, and that was last year, the cost was $134

This whole bull#### that they are pulling about 27K being stolen from the distillery is doing exactly what they want. It is great bourbon but I am not giving them anywhere near what they want. #### 'em, I have been pouring Breckenridge bourbon lately anyway.

 
Saw a ridiculous attempt at gouging last week, Stopped into a random local liquor store and saw a Pappy 20 up out of reach with a sign asking $1895. Sheesh.

 
Reaper said:
Ilov80s said:
Angels Envy is very good. I'm not sure it's better than Eagke Rare, but can't go wrong with either.
Click to expand...
Bought a bottle of Angles Envy at Costco - I think it was about $34

Thinking about buying a case....lol
Click to expand...
Picked up a bottle of Angels Envy day before Thanksgiving - it's almost gone - absolutely delicious. I'm a Macallan guy but Angels Envy is definitely now in the rotation.

 
Reaper said:
Ilov80s said:
Angels Envy is very good. I'm not sure it's better than Eagke Rare, but can't go wrong with either.
Click to expand...
Bought a bottle of Angles Envy at Costco - I think it was about $34

Thinking about buying a case....lol
Click to expand...
Did you see their 40 year Kirkland-branded Glenlivet? 40 years in the cask, normally $700, marked down to just $400 at my store. Its still more than I'll ever spend for a bottle, but I did stare at it for a while until my wife dragged me away.

 
Managed to get a Four Roses Small Batch Limited Edition, Pappy 20, ORVW10, Willett Family Reserve 9, Willett Family Reserve 10, and Old Forester Birthday Bourbon this fall release season. Can't imagine how much I would spend on bourbon if I lived in an area where I could actually find these sorts of things on shelf instead of having to "win" raffles for the right to buy

 
Guster said:
Happy Repeal day :banned:
Click to expand...
:cheers:

I've been burning through Boardwalk Empire this week and think I'd be happier if Prohibition were still in effect. I'll take a whiskey and a woman at a speak any day over the current typical bar scene.

 
In regards to the pappy on the retail side, the distributors have made it more difficult to get at a reasonable price. They make you buy ___ cases of something that they are having a hard time selling just to get a few bottles of pappy. Stores also deal with many calls Daily asking if it's available. If people Are going to pay that high amount so be it

 
GroveDiesel said:
This article may have already been posted, but I found it very interesting.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html

In short, a huge percentage of "craft" whiskey is actually bought from large bulk companies in Indiana and Canada and simply bottled locally.
Click to expand...
This is much of the reason I just don't see the need for craft whiskey the way there's a need for craft beer.

Bourbon and all types of American whiskey are very clearly defined. For the most part, they are all very, very good.

You just won't see the difference in a craft bourbon vs. something like Evan Williams White label, as you will in say Bell's Two Hearted and Bud Light. Beer drinkers needed craft breweries to get, in their mind, proper beer. Not the case for whiskey at all.

The only possible need I see is for somebody to help stop this stupid tide towards 80 proof whiskey, but the craft guys are just as likely to go down to 80-proof as the big boys. Either way, that one is still up to the public to not accept watered down 80-proof whiskey.

I'm all for competition and innovation, and I don't have a problem with "label only brands" (works well for Bulleit). But Idoubt that many of these craft distilleries make it. There's just not much need for them.

 
pollardsvision said:
GroveDiesel said:
This article may have already been posted, but I found it very interesting.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html

In short, a huge percentage of "craft" whiskey is actually bought from large bulk companies in Indiana and Canada and simply bottled locally.
Click to expand...
This is much of the reason I just don't see the need for craft whiskey the way there's a need for craft beer.

Bourbon and all types of American whiskey are very clearly defined. For the most part, they are all very, very good.

You just won't see the difference in a craft bourbon vs. something like Evan Williams White label, as you will in say Bell's Two Hearted and Bud Light. Beer drinkers needed craft breweries to get, in their mind, proper beer. Not the case for whiskey at all.

The only possible need I see is for somebody to help stop this stupid tide towards 80 proof whiskey, but the craft guys are just as likely to go down to 80-proof as the big boys. Either way, that one is still up to the public to not accept watered down 80-proof whiskey.

I'm all for competition and innovation, and I don't have a problem with "label only brands" (works well for Bulleit). But Idoubt that many of these craft distilleries make it. There's just not much need for them.
Click to expand...
Craft bourbon is especially :crazy: Most places get it from the same source (MGPI, near the Cincinnati airport) and put a fake historical story around it.

Craft beer is entirely different in that it started more from home brewers

If craft bourbon were more like craft beer (think more places like Balcones, Willett's 2 year rye, etc), then you might see more differentiation in the market. As it stands, I expect several of these places to be boarded up before they ever release a 6 year or older bourbon they made themselves

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Guster said:
pollardsvision said:
GroveDiesel said:
This article may have already been posted, but I found it very interesting.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html

In short, a huge percentage of "craft" whiskey is actually bought from large bulk companies in Indiana and Canada and simply bottled locally.
Click to expand...
This is much of the reason I just don't see the need for craft whiskey the way there's a need for craft beer.

Bourbon and all types of American whiskey are very clearly defined. For the most part, they are all very, very good.

You just won't see the difference in a craft bourbon vs. something like Evan Williams White label, as you will in say Bell's Two Hearted and Bud Light. Beer drinkers needed craft breweries to get, in their mind, proper beer. Not the case for whiskey at all.

The only possible need I see is for somebody to help stop this stupid tide towards 80 proof whiskey, but the craft guys are just as likely to go down to 80-proof as the big boys. Either way, that one is still up to the public to not accept watered down 80-proof whiskey.

I'm all for competition and innovation, and I don't have a problem with "label only brands" (works well for Bulleit). But Idoubt that many of these craft distilleries make it. There's just not much need for them.
Click to expand...
Craft bourbon is especially :crazy: Most places get it from the same source (MGPI, near the Cincinnati airport) and put a fake historical story around it.

Craft beer is entirely different in that it started more from home brewers

If craft bourbon were more like craft beer (think more places like Balcones, Willett's 2 year rye, etc), then you might see more differentiation in the market. As it stands, I expect several of these places to be boarded up before they ever release a 6 year or older bourbon they made themselves
Click to expand...
Bourbon is tough for a "craft distillery" for sure, but I think there's a place for them. One near me makes a basic "American whisky" (blending raw whisky with bourbon they buy from Kentucky) a gin and vodka that are both good, but what sets them apart is the unique stuff they are constantly doing - a tasty pumpkin spirit released every fall, a couple grappas, two different absinthe flavors, a really interesting maple rum, and then blending and barrel aging several of those as special releases. The barrel aged gin and grappa are both very interesting.

 
Guster said:
pollardsvision said:
GroveDiesel said:
This article may have already been posted, but I found it very interesting.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html

In short, a huge percentage of "craft" whiskey is actually bought from large bulk companies in Indiana and Canada and simply bottled locally.
Click to expand...
This is much of the reason I just don't see the need for craft whiskey the way there's a need for craft beer.

Bourbon and all types of American whiskey are very clearly defined. For the most part, they are all very, very good.

You just won't see the difference in a craft bourbon vs. something like Evan Williams White label, as you will in say Bell's Two Hearted and Bud Light. Beer drinkers needed craft breweries to get, in their mind, proper beer. Not the case for whiskey at all.

The only possible need I see is for somebody to help stop this stupid tide towards 80 proof whiskey, but the craft guys are just as likely to go down to 80-proof as the big boys. Either way, that one is still up to the public to not accept watered down 80-proof whiskey.

I'm all for competition and innovation, and I don't have a problem with "label only brands" (works well for Bulleit). But Idoubt that many of these craft distilleries make it. There's just not much need for them.
Click to expand...
Craft bourbon is especially :crazy: Most places get it from the same source (MGPI, near the Cincinnati airport) and put a fake historical story around it.

Craft beer is entirely different in that it started more from home brewers

If craft bourbon were more like craft beer (think more places like Balcones, Willett's 2 year rye, etc), then you might see more differentiation in the market. As it stands, I expect several of these places to be boarded up before they ever release a 6 year or older bourbon they made themselves
Click to expand...
I think that's only partially true. I didn't read the article, but my brother works at a local very popular distillery and they produce a good portion (not sure of the exact percentage, but it is much less than half) of their bourbon in house, and most of what we get locally is made at their distillery. They are currently in the works to upgrade/enlarge both their storage area and their still so they can up their own production. I believe they started producing all of their own bourbon and they couldn't keep up with demand so they outsourced much of it. They still produce 100% of their own rum, but that seems to be something of a seasonal/occasional thing. Their vodka is shipped into their distillery and mixed with water and bottled.

On a side note, I went there a couple months ago for a bottling party. Tons of fun. Bottled for a few hours while drinking all the booze we wanted, got a break for dinner which they supplied and then they sent each of us (I think there were 10 of us total) on our way with a bottle of bourbon. Not a bad way to spend a night.

Whiskey is in such high demand that none of these small distilleries can keep up. I can't imagine many of them starting with the idea of some mass distiller half way across the country making their booze for them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kev4029 said:
Guster said:
Craft bourbon is especially :crazy: Most places get it from the same source (MGPI, near the Cincinnati airport) and put a fake historical story around it.

Craft beer is entirely different in that it started more from home brewers

If craft bourbon were more like craft beer (think more places like Balcones, Willett's 2 year rye, etc), then you might see more differentiation in the market. As it stands, I expect several of these places to be boarded up before they ever release a 6 year or older bourbon they made themselves
Click to expand...
I think that's only partially true. I didn't read the article, but my brother works at a local very popular distillery and they produce a good portion (not sure of the exact percentage, but it is much less than half) of their bourbon in house, and most of what we get locally is made at their distillery. They are currently in the works to upgrade/enlarge both their storage area and their still so they can up their own production. I believe they started producing all of their own bourbon and they couldn't keep up with demand so they outsourced much of it. They still produce 100% of their own rum, but that seems to be something of a seasonal/occasional thing. Their vodka is shipped into their distillery and mixed with water and bottled.

On a side note, I went there a couple months ago for a bottling party. Tons of fun. Bottled for a few hours while drinking all the booze we wanted, got a break for dinner which they supplied and then they sent each of us (I think there were 10 of us total) on our way with a bottle of bourbon. Not a bad way to spend a night.

Whiskey is in such high demand that none of these small distilleries can keep up. I can't imagine many of them starting with the idea of some mass distiller half way across the country making their booze for them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get that there are some craft places that make their own, but my point was that most do not sell stuff they produce (Templeton, Jefferson's, Whistle Pig, High West, Buillet, Angel's Envy, etc) and many of them have no operating distillery now, so are still years off from selling their own stuff.

 
Guster said:
Kev4029 said:
Guster said:
Craft bourbon is especially :crazy: Most places get it from the same source (MGPI, near the Cincinnati airport) and put a fake historical story around it.

Craft beer is entirely different in that it started more from home brewers

If craft bourbon were more like craft beer (think more places like Balcones, Willett's 2 year rye, etc), then you might see more differentiation in the market. As it stands, I expect several of these places to be boarded up before they ever release a 6 year or older bourbon they made themselves
Click to expand...
I think that's only partially true. I didn't read the article, but my brother works at a local very popular distillery and they produce a good portion (not sure of the exact percentage, but it is much less than half) of their bourbon in house, and most of what we get locally is made at their distillery. They are currently in the works to upgrade/enlarge both their storage area and their still so they can up their own production. I believe they started producing all of their own bourbon and they couldn't keep up with demand so they outsourced much of it. They still produce 100% of their own rum, but that seems to be something of a seasonal/occasional thing. Their vodka is shipped into their distillery and mixed with water and bottled.

On a side note, I went there a couple months ago for a bottling party. Tons of fun. Bottled for a few hours while drinking all the booze we wanted, got a break for dinner which they supplied and then they sent each of us (I think there were 10 of us total) on our way with a bottle of bourbon. Not a bad way to spend a night.

Whiskey is in such high demand that none of these small distilleries can keep up. I can't imagine many of them starting with the idea of some mass distiller half way across the country making their booze for them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get that there are some craft places that make their own, but my point was that most do not sell stuff they produce (Templeton, Jefferson's, Whistle Pig, High West, Buillet, Angel's Envy, etc) and many of them have no operating distillery now, so are still years off from selling their own stuff.
Click to expand...
I really think that is more the exception than the rule, at least here in Colorado. The biggest whiskey distillers around here that send stuff nationwide (Stranahan's, Leopold Brothers, Breckenridge, Peach Street - I don't know if they sell much outside of Colorado) all have operating distilleries. I would imagine that the small time distillers that just sell stuff locally almost all make their own whiskey, too.

 
Yeah, Colorado is the exception...

For reference, here is Sku's most recent list of "craft" brands I could find that are sourced from MGP Ingredients:

31 N 50 Bourbon (Dry Diggings)

4 Spirits Bourbon (4 Spirits)

1888 Bourbon (Diversa Brands)

99 Bottles Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

Angel's Envy Rye (Louisville Distilling Co.)

Backbone Bourbon (Crossroads Vitners/Strong Spirits)

Belle Meade Bourbon (Nelson's Greenbriar)

Big ### Bourbon (Strong Spirits)

Big Bottom Bourbon (Big Bottom)

Big House Bourbon (Underdog Spirits)

Big Y Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

Bone Snapper Rye (Strong Spirits)

Breaker Bourbon (Ascendant Spirits)

Bulleit Rye (Diageo)

Chattanooga Whiskey 1816 Reserve (Chattanooga Whiskey Co.)

Clarion Bourbon and Blended Whiskey (Distilled Spirits Epicenter)

Cleveland Rye Whiskey (Cleveland Whiskey)

Coney Island Carlo Bourbon (Terresentia)

Copper City Straight Bourbon (Arizona Distilling Co.)

Corn Star Corn Whiskey (Bardstown Barrel Selections)

Cotton Hollow Rye (Cotton Hollow/Strong Spirits)

Cougar Bourbon & Rye (Foster's)

Defiance Whiskey (Crown Valley Distilling)

Filibuster Rye (M.S. Trading LP)

George Dickel Rye (George Dickel)

George Remus Bourbon & Rye (Queen City Whiskey/Strong Spirits)

Henderson Rye (North Texas Distillers)

High Liquors Bourbon & Rye (High Liquors)

High West (an an element of many of their whiskeys blends)

Homestead Bourbon (Homestead American whiskey)

Hooker's House (some of their bourbons and their rye; Prohibition Spirits)

J. Green Bourbon and Rye (Shadow Beverage Group)

James E. Pepper 1776 Rye (James E. Pepper/Strong Spirits)

J.R. Revelry Bourbon (La Bodega Internacional/Speakeasy Spirits)

Knotter Bourbon & Rye (Blaum Bros.)

LeMont Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

Mosswood American Light Whiskey (Mosswood Distillers)

O.K.I. Bourbon and Rye (New Riff Distilling)

Pinhook Bourbon (CJS Beverage Corp.)

Prichard's Rye (Prichard's)

Redemption Bourbon & Rye (Bardstown Barrel Selections)

Riverboat Rye (Bardstown Barrel Selections)

Rough Rider Bourbon & Rye (Long Island Spirits)

Seagram's 7 Blended Whiskey (Diageo)

Single Track Rye (Range and River Distilling)

Smokin' Joe's Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

Smooth Ambler Old Scout Bourbon, Rye and Corn Whiskey (Smooth Ambler)

Smuggler's Notch Rye

Spirit of America Bourbon (Hobson & Roberts)

Spring Mill Bourbon (Heartland Distillers)

Taos Lightning (KGB Spirits)

Temperance Trader (Bull Run Distilling)

Templeton Rye (Templeton)

Temptation Bourbon (Bardstown Barrel Selections)

The Saloon Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

Tin Cup Whiskey (Proximo Spirits)

Troubadour Bourbon (The Original Texas Legend Distillery)

WH Harrison Bourbon (Tipton Spirits)

Widow Jane Rye (Cacao Prieto)

Willett Rye (Indiana ryes)

Winghart's Bourbon & Rye (PA Private Label Spirits)

 
Guster said:
Yeah, Colorado is the exception...

For reference, here is Sku's most recent list of "craft" brands I could find that are sourced from MGP Ingredients:
Click to expand...
Between MGPI and Sazerac/Buffalo Trace there are a lot of outsourced craft whiskey brands, but Sku's has a list of hundreds of distilleries currently producing whiskey. The list of bottlers to distilleries has to be at least 3 to 1,

 
1) Pappy Van Winkle 15 Year

2) Booker's

3) Woodford Reserve

4) Blanton's

5) Baker's

6) Eagle Rare

7) Jim Beam Black Double Aged

8) Buffalo Trace

9) Maker's 46

10) Old Granddad 114
11) Maker's Mark

12) Lexington

13) Ridgemont Reserve
14) Bulleit

15) Rebel Yell

16) Four Roses

Well, yeah. I tried to downplay it in my head before I drank it, thinking it was probably overhyped.

it was not. Just so unbelievably smooth.

 
Finally broke into the Wild Turkey Diamond on Christmas Eve. Probably the best smelling bourbon I've ever had. The flavor was really really good too - a little thin, but really drinkable neat. Wouldn't dare to put ice in it as it would end up too watered down.

 
10 Best Budget Bourbons

This article is a year old but figured I'd share it here for any of you guys who aren't afraid to reach for those middle shelves.

Old Forester

Buffalo Trace

Elijah Craig 12

Wild Turkey 101

1792 Ridgemont Reserve

Bulleit

Old Weller Antique 107

Four Roses Small Batch

McAffee's Benchmark

Evan William's Single Barrel

Most of these bottles are listed in the $25-$30 range. I honestly didn't know these were "budget bourbons" before now, I must be poorer than I thought. The bolded bourbons make up probably 80% of the bottles I buy and are all solid. Never tried the others.

 
anyone want to give a little help to someone who knows nothing about whiskey? have a friend who always says be on lookout for pappy's for him, but he also drinks buffalo trace. would angels envy be a good fit taste wise for him as a house warming gift?

 
chauncey said:
10 Best Budget Bourbons

This article is a year old but figured I'd share it here for any of you guys who aren't afraid to reach for those middle shelves.

Old Forester

Buffalo Trace

Elijah Craig 12

Wild Turkey 101

1792 Ridgemont Reserve

Bulleit

Old Weller Antique 107

Four Roses Small Batch

McAffee's Benchmark

Evan William's Single Barrel

Most of these bottles are listed in the $25-$30 range. I honestly didn't know these were "budget bourbons" before now, I must be poorer than I thought. The bolded bourbons make up probably 80% of the bottles I buy and are all solid. Never tried the others.
Click to expand...
EC12 would be right up your alley. It's EWSB's cousin and another Heaven Hill gem in the $25 range.

 
HellToupee said:
chauncey said:
kutta said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Had a bit too much of Angels Envy Rye this weekend. Really enjoyed it.
Click to expand...
This is amazing stuff! It's finished in old rum barrels and you can really taste the molasses and vanilla. Probably the best tasting whiskey I've ever had.
Click to expand...
I've never tried this but will pick up a bottle this weekend after hearing nothing but good reviews.
Click to expand...
Its real nice but pricey. At my costco its $79
Click to expand...
Can not find a bottle of it in Pa for the life of me :(

 
steelerfan1 said:
anyone want to give a little help to someone who knows nothing about whiskey? have a friend who always says be on lookout for pappy's for him, but he also drinks buffalo trace. would angels envy be a good fit taste wise for him as a house warming gift?
Click to expand...
AE is much sweeter than BT but a very good middle of the road Bourbon.

Good luck with the Pappy, just about everyone is on the look out for it :cry:

 
Megla said:
steelerfan1 said:
anyone want to give a little help to someone who knows nothing about whiskey? have a friend who always says be on lookout for pappy's for him, but he also drinks buffalo trace. would angels envy be a good fit taste wise for him as a house warming gift?
Click to expand...
AE is much sweeter than BT but a very good middle of the road Bourbon.Good luck with the Pappy, just about everyone is on the look out for it :cry:
Click to expand...
thanks megla,

the sweetness is what I'm worried about. I tried some of the buffalo trace he was drinking at his wedding and thought it was nasty. His son however gave me some of his basil Hayden and I actually thought it was pretty good. Don't want to drop $70 on something he won't enjoy so may just go with what I know he drinks.

I was amazed at the pappy thing. I figured I just drive the hour or so to frugal McDougal 1 day and grab a bottle for him. Yeah...about that,..

Thanks again for your help

 
If your buddy likes Buffalo Trace (which is my fav value bourbon) but you want to get something nicer get Eagle Rare. same distillery, Eagle is the higher end, but not too pricey. It's fantastic.

 
I tried some Old Forrester 1870 Small Batch the other day. It was only released in six states. This stuff was smooooooooth. My buddy and I both looked at each with a WTF look on our faces because we just couldn't believe it. He was able to find a couple bottles online and ordered them up. It's a bit hard to find, but well worth the trouble.

 
steelerfan1 said:
Who Dat Ninja? said:
If your buddy likes Buffalo Trace (which is my fav value bourbon) but you want to get something nicer get Eagle Rare. same distillery, Eagle is the higher end, but not too pricey. It's fantastic.
Click to expand...
thank you sir.
Click to expand...
And for something even a little more special, look for a bottle of the Buffalo Trace Single Oak Project. It's an awesome project they are doing to try to find the perfect combination of oak barrels, age, etc. It makes a great gift for someone into bourbon. http://www.singleoakproject.com
 
kutta said:
steelerfan1 said:
Who Dat Ninja? said:
If your buddy likes Buffalo Trace (which is my fav value bourbon) but you want to get something nicer get Eagle Rare. same distillery, Eagle is the higher end, but not too pricey. It's fantastic.
Click to expand...
thank you sir.
Click to expand...
And for something even a little more special, look for a bottle of the Buffalo Trace Single Oak Project. It's an awesome project they are doing to try to find the perfect combination of oak barrels, age, etc. It makes a great gift for someone into bourbon. http://www.singleoakproject.com
Click to expand...
Most of those are kinda terrible, especially at that price point.

 
kutta said:
I tried some Old Forrester 1870 Small Batch the other day. It was only released in six states. This stuff was smooooooooth. My buddy and I both looked at each with a WTF look on our faces because we just couldn't believe it. He was able to find a couple bottles online and ordered them up. It's a bit hard to find, but well worth the trouble.
Click to expand...
It's releasing national this month, so should become easier to find

 
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