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January 6th - what will happen? (1 Viewer)

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The Commish said:
Apparently, the fun isn't over.  Tonight at 9pm, Trump is giving a broadcast exposing the entire thing.  All the child sex offenders, all the people in our government bought and paid for by foreign/domestic terrorists and all the people who were Antifa acting as MAGA people yesterday.

Of course, yesterday was supposed to be THE DAY where it was all exposed.  I guess he's running a little bit behind. :popcorn:  
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This reminds me of Corey Feldman's revealing. 

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
Fair enough.   What do you think will?
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I'm not really sure there is a finality to it.  To use a tired cliche or two - the genie is out of the bottle, and we're through the looking glass.  This is all fueled by social media, a distrust of the mainstream media, self-contained thought bubbles, etc.  Trump is the de facto figurehead at the moment, but the Q conspiracy theories and all that jazz don't disappear when he's gone.  If Trump held a press conference today and laid out openly that he was lying X or Y, whatever people would want him to denounce - the fringe sectors of the internet would be convinced that the swamp or Deep State was holding him hostage.  I suppose it's what happens when we, collectively, can no longer agree on what is the truth.

 
GroveDiesel said:
And I don’t know why people think that Antifa is to blame. Trump supporters on Twitter and Parler were quite clear for weeks that they were going with plans of violence:

Link
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Because it can't possibly be Trump supporters :shrug:

That's how these conspiracy theories work apparently.....have the narrative and ignore/dismiss everything that doesn't fit it and make stuff up for the glaring gaps.....rinse/repeat.

 
This is my congressman. My god...

https://twitter.com/CongressmanHice/status/1347165869802205184

Yesterday was a day to lawfully & peacefully fulfill our sacred duty to defend election integrity. Instead, a peaceful protest was hijacked by bad actors — some reportedly masquerading as Trump supporters. I CONDEMN political violence. God bless America & US Capitol Police.
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https://twitter.com/CongressmanHice/status/1347240046479470594

I led 74

@HouseGOP

Members in objecting to GA's electors on the basis that the Nov 3 was faulty & fraudulent — largely due to unilateral & unlawful changes to the election by

@GaSecofState

. Unfortunately, no Senator joined us. We must lawfully & peacefully fight election fraud!
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The Dude said:
Historians tend to rely on fact
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Facts will almost always come out.  It has been squashed by the courts and the media, but it will come out 1 year from now or 10 years from now, or 50 years.  

What is sad in all of this if and when the facts do come out.  Will any of you people on this board change their minds?

 
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parasaurolophus said:
He was lying. He claimed that 80% of the people causing trouble were from out of state. Arrest records dont bavk that up at all. That ivan harrison dude is one guy that was arrested. 

Officials said the shooting happened as other people, believed to be looters, were inside the building.

He fired 13 shots into the side of a building that was already taken over. To act like he is the reason is silly. It is exactly the same mindset as people blaming antifa for yesterday. 

Just like umbrella man. Guy breaks some windows and two hours later the place gets looted. But it is all his fault that target and autozone got looted.

An anonymous tip comes in saying umbrella man is a white supremacist guy. Police want to investigate the tip. File for a search warrant. Reporters treat that afidavit for a search warrant as what actually happened and even say "according to police". It should have said according to a police filing based on an anonymous tip. The only actual police statements centered around how in the video you can see he is tall and talk about a past arrest. It is now 5 months later, no arrest and i dont even actually know if they got the search warrant. 

It is all misdirection from what we could obviously see.
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OK, so you've kind of moved the goalposts here. Initially you said Walz said it was orchestrated by out of state folks. Some of it was - not all of it and probably a small minority of it. But there was some minimal orchestration by far right groups.  So calling Walz a liar there seems questionable.

When I pointed that out, you said he lied about 80% being out of state. Sure, he did. But if I remember right, even the folks reporting that (KARE-11? FOX-9? I forget who did the analysis) said their data was incomplete. They had all arrest data. And that showed something like 15 to 20% of arrests were out of state actors. Were the violent acts in-state or out-of-state? They couldn't definitively say. 

The police, if I remember right, even backed up Walz. They said that people often lie about where they live when they're arrested and they'd found arrest records for some of these people in other states. So Walz may have lied or he may have relied on the data he was given by law enforcement. Mayor Carter I know walked back a statement that all St. Paul arrests were not from St. Paul.

I agree with everything else you've said - though, to be fair to Minneapolis, there WERE far right actors there from out of state who orchestrated violence.  Right now, I don't believe they've charged any Antifa in DC. They might in the future. And when they do you can compare the two.

Right now, you should probably just go with "It's misdirection to say it's antifa in DC." 

Yes, I'm being anal. Sorry.

 
parasaurolophus said:
And I would agree with that and wouldnt have a problem with that and would defend any cop in that situation. 

Doesnt mean it should be the desired outcome and more often than not it isnt the outcome. As we have seen. Repeatedly. 

In real time during this it was perfectly acceptable to advocate for stronger response. You could make the argument that you dont know how thirsty for blood the group charging the capitol was. You dont know how armed they were. Etc.

But now that we know the results, I dont understand how anybody thinks they should have shot more people. The vast majority of these people were unarmed, (or if they were armed never drew weapons since I am sure somebody will argue they could have been concealed). 

If they were heavily armed and had intent to use, the moment a woman gets shot in the neck and it doesnt turn into a shooting fest should be enough proof that wasnt the case. 

But I also have zero problems with the shooting of her either since you dont know the actual intent or results until it is all finished so in the moment you make a decision.
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Given that black people sitting patiently in their cars get shot during traffic stops, it seems weird that bullets weren’t fired in the video in question.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
He’d just fire her. This doesn’t work piecemeal. 
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I was wondering about that. Would the next person in line (under secretary?) have the authority to help invoke the 25th amendment? Could a President really avoid having the 25th Amendment invoked by firing all (or at least 8 ) cabinet members?

 
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GroveDiesel said:
Just ugly

“This is not America,” a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. “They’re shooting at us. They’re supposed to shoot BLM, but they’re shooting the patriots.”
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For some reason....

 

Around the plaza, there were tables hawking all manner of Trump and MAGA regalia. T-shirts, $15. Hats, $15. I asked if those were clearance prices; not yet.
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:lmao:

 
GroveDiesel said:
And I don’t know why people think that Antifa is to blame. Trump supporters on Twitter and Parler were quite clear for weeks that they were going with plans of violence:

Link
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Trump literally begged for supporters to be in DC on the 6th.  This has been everywhere.  There should be no surprise, no shock, and I'm amazed that there wasn't better security.

I know many of you disagree, but this turned out a lot better than I thought it would once it started, because one of the big themes on social media was that they can't stop an armed rebellion.  

One of the issues that Obama talks about a lot are the echo chambers.  He referred to it in his speech yesterday.  It's a huge issue.  I brought up something around this a few weeks ago when warning of what could happen and a number of people on this board laughed and said to stay off right-wing twitter.  Yeah, well that's a terrible idea.  They may be wackos, they may believe different things than you, but if anyone had spent 20 minutes there they would have known that a ton of people were coming and that there was the potential for something serious to happen.

Media is a bit to blame as well.  Instead of sounding the alarm yesterday morning, they tried to show camera angles that made it seem like there weren't many people there.  They refused to air Trump's speech, which could have woken people up as to what was about to go down.

 
Pelosi tried to call VP Mike Pence this morning to urge him to remove President Trump. She was kept on hold for 25 minutes before she was told Pence would not take her call (CNN).

 
Can I just mention one little pet peeve from yesterday and today? Certain people keep using the phrase “BLM/Antifa”. The two are NOT the same. They have very different goals and very different methods for achieving those goals.

Black Lives Matter has a small number of core people who actually belong and millions of sympathizers who believe in the phrase as a general idea, if not necessarily specific aspects of the movement. Black Lives Matter protests are generally peaceful and tend to be well organized, though because they are open to all comers sometimes they become unruly. After the murder of George Floyd, BLM protests became large and widespread and many of these became the scenes of violence, looting and burning, but these incidents almost always took place AfTER the BLM protests were concluded. 

Antifa is one of several left wing anarchist groups, we don’t know how many and how big their actual membership is but most law enforcement experts think it’s far less than being presented on right wing media. They can be violent but it’s still more unlikely than not. They’re actually pretty rare. 

The violence of the summer was largely caused not by BLM or Antifa, but by angry individuals who like to burn, and opportunistic individuals who like to loot. These thugs are not members of any organization (just as those who broke in to the Capitol were very likely individual thugs with no official group affiliation.) 
 

 
HellToupee said:
Someone needs to throw a net over Lin Wood or ban him from Twitter 
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He's been banned, but he's posting on Parler and people are pasting screenshots of it.  He now claims Pence is going to arrest and execute Trump. 

I half expect him to announce that he's a democrat and was just trolling Trump supporters the whole time.  Crazy thing is, he may have been responsible for the GA senate loss.  He had a rally there a few weeks ago and made comments that were negative about the GOP and supporting the GOP that many think resonated to some degree in Georgia. 

He's just really a wacko, but in the last month, Trump has elevated a lot of wackos to prominence.

 
As a history nerd I enjoy reading thoughts on the timeline of the Roma’s Republic vs our republic.  Yesterday was the first time I’ve seriously had a “oh ####” moment.  I was waiting for someone to get clubbed to death by a table leg.  We really gotta get our crap together.  Hopefully some smart people can bridge the gap. 

 
timschochet said:
Can I just mention one little pet peeve from yesterday and today? Certain people keep using the phrase “BLM/Antifa”. The two are NOT the same. They have very different goals and very different methods for achieving those goals.
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I use Blm/Antifa instead of writing out blm protest and antifa rioter . I don’t think anyone confuses that they are the same and Antifa represents blm people. Just like I assume people don’t think yesterday’s rioters represent all trump supporters 

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Amazing that some guy on Twitter could see this happening, but somehow both Fed & local law enforcement couldn't.
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I was reading freerepublic.com over the holidays and it was very evident the intent was going to be there.  I just didn’t think they would be able to execute since I believed law enforcement would stop them.

 
uwillbsoon said:
OK, so you've kind of moved the goalposts here. Initially you said Walz said it was orchestrated by out of state folks. Some of it was - not all of it and probably a small minority of it. But there was some minimal orchestration by far right groups.  So calling Walz a liar there seems questionable.

When I pointed that out, you said he lied about 80% being out of state. Sure, he did
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I actually initially said he was a liar because he said it was ALL orchestrated by out of state folks. Now obviously I got my politicians mixed up there since it was the ST Paul mayor that declared ALL and  Walz declared 80% of it was, which isnt really any different. Saying 80% was caused by out of state troublemakers when only a small % was isnt any different substantively than saying all of it was from out of state troublemakers. 

And in either case bringing up a one off doesnt counter anything since I didnt say he lied by saying any of it was orchestrated by out of state folks. So no I am not moving the goalposts.

 
Andrew74 said:
As a history nerd I enjoy reading thoughts on the timeline of the Roma’s Republic vs our republic.  Yesterday was the first time I’ve seriously had a “oh ####” moment.  I was waiting for someone to get clubbed to death by a table leg.  We really gotta get our crap together.  Hopefully some smart people can bridge the gap. 
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I've been reading the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough. I cannot recommend them enough.  Try one and I bet you'll love it.  It's historical fiction, but she really makes that world comes alive in a way that is unbelievably accurate.

Anyway, I'm currently on a book that is set at the beginning of Sulla's reign as dictator and when Caesar is 18 and headed off to war for the first time.

The change of Rome from a republic to a dictatorship was definitely eye-opening and there are some parallels.  Their entire culture was against a King and was structured around that, yet it still happened.  I've definitely had some "wow" moments reading it when thinking about modern life, just as I had similar moments when reading Shirer's book about HItler. 

 
lakerstan said:
Leroy Hoard said:
Amazing that some guy on Twitter could see this happening, but somehow both Fed & local law enforcement couldn't.
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I was reading freerepublic.com over the holidays and it was very evident the intent was going to be there.  I just didn’t think they would be able to execute since I believed law enforcement would stop them.
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Honestly, I think it went about as well as it could have.  Do I wish LEOs would have prevented them from entering the chamber and offices?  Yes, of course.  The alternative, dead people all over the place, is much worse though.

 
lakerstan said:
I was reading freerepublic.com over the holidays and it was very evident the intent was going to be there.  I just didn’t think they would be able to execute since I believed law enforcement would stop them.
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And it's not exactly like the police were going up against some elite force. These people seemed to have no clue what they were doing.

 
beef said:
Courtjester said:
Looking at the demographic of the crowd, I bet many of them are heart attacks. This crowd had a large portion of elderly protestors who just stood around and held their signs and flags, but when the agitators did their thing, they got caught in this storm and paid the price. 

I could be wrong—just a sad day all Around. 
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Thought I heard two of the deaths we're from falls.  One off the wall and another from the scaffolding.  
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Following up: one of the deaths was a 55-year-old from Alabama who had a heart attack.

The names of the other 2 people have been released, but I can't find any info about how they died.

 
Andrew74 said:
As a history nerd I enjoy reading thoughts on the timeline of the Roma’s Republic vs our republic.  Yesterday was the first time I’ve seriously had a “oh ####” moment.  I was waiting for someone to get clubbed to death by a table leg.  We really gotta get our crap together.  Hopefully some smart people can bridge the gap. 
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Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo. spoke about the comparison to Rome in his speech last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDikXUisFg

 
Andrew74 said:
As a history nerd I enjoy reading thoughts on the timeline of the Roma’s Republic vs our republic.  Yesterday was the first time I’ve seriously had a “oh ####” moment.  I was waiting for someone to get clubbed to death by a table leg.  We really gotta get our crap together.  Hopefully some smart people can bridge the gap. 
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This was published by Politico on November 3rd but it's even more relevant today:

"America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall"

 
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