Milwaukees_best
Footballguy
Jones will stay off the PUP. The Lions have too much riding on this season. He will remain off the pup and will continue to work on his agility and conditioning and will be available to them in about a month.
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Kevin Jones (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gethugefast1
- Start date
Or week 10. Or week 13. Or not until 2008.Just because he can come off PUP for week 7 doesn't mean he'll be ready to start the very next game.
az_prof
Footballguy
What makes you suggest week 10 or 13? What is your rationale to suggest that he might not return at all in 2008?We'll know Thursday if he will miss the first five games (week six is their bye), but the fact that other injured players have already gone on PUP as teams have made cuts and the Lions are waiting for a medical opinion tells me that he is close. He is running and cutting but the last step is to do it in action with contact. I don't know why one would assume that he might miss the season, given the positive recovery he has had and the team's obvious deliberations about whether he is ready right now to come off PUP.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
You've got some rose-colored glasses there. The PUP deadline is September 1, and I'm sure we'll see a lot more players put on the list between now and then. The fact that a few teams are a little early doesn't tell me anything -- most of the names I've seen are no-brainers, and if Detroit wanted to save a roster spot for a few more days, so what? It's not like they had to cut a player who had any possible chance of making the roster.
Lots of players can run and cut without pads and without contact. That doesn't mean that they're anywhere near ready to play, let alone start, let alone carry the load.I've said this before, but there is way too much optimism in this thread. Even if Jones is ready to put on a uniform in week 4 or week 7 or week 10, that doesn't mean he'll be ready to start, and it doesn't mean he'll be getting 20 touches a game from that moment forward. And if Detroit starts out 1-5, where is the urgency to push Jones on the field if he's not 100%?
az_prof
Footballguy
So basically, your rationale that he might not start until week 10 or might not play at all this season is based upon:a) he hasn't had contact yetb) too much "positive energy on the board"c) if the team loses, as you suspect, why push himDid I miss anything?Of theses:a) it is a valid point that he hasn't had contact yet; but he has met every other recovery stage ahead of schedule so far. How long after you are ready for contact does it take to be ready to play? I would say two weeks if you are in shape, and it appears he is. It certainly wouldn't take ten weeks or a whole season.b) our positive or negative opinions about this have no bearing on reality one way or the other. It is your opinion that we are too positive, but that proves nothing. c) The fear of losing the first five may be a reason to get him back asap and to not put him on PUP. Coaches like to win because otherwise they lose their job. Even if they lose the first five I would assume they would want to field the best team possible for their own sakes.As far as I see it, your only valid point is that he hasn't experienced contact yet. It is a valid point because he could suffer a set back when he does have contact. But I don't see that being a reason for him not to play until week 10 or later unless he gets reinjured.
(b) is an observation, not a rationale.
On (a) You say that it would take two weeks for KJ to be ready to play, but what do you base that on? It could take longer (or shorter) depending on how the foot responds. It can take a month of training camp for healthy players to be "ready to play", why should it take any less time for an injured player? And, to reiterate, "ready to play" is not the same as "ready for 20+ touches per game".
On ©, if there is any doubt about KJ's readiness by game 7, this would be as much the GM's decision as the coach's -- not that we have any reason to expect Millen to make a good decision here, but he hasn't shown much of an interest in fielding "the best team possible for their own sakes". But if they do rush to get him on the field, that increases the odds of a setback. And considering the injury, it may only take one setback to put him on the shelf for the year, if the Lions are already out of the hunt by the time he might otherwise be ready again.
On (a) You say that it would take two weeks for KJ to be ready to play, but what do you base that on? It could take longer (or shorter) depending on how the foot responds. It can take a month of training camp for healthy players to be "ready to play", why should it take any less time for an injured player? And, to reiterate, "ready to play" is not the same as "ready for 20+ touches per game".
On ©, if there is any doubt about KJ's readiness by game 7, this would be as much the GM's decision as the coach's -- not that we have any reason to expect Millen to make a good decision here, but he hasn't shown much of an interest in fielding "the best team possible for their own sakes". But if they do rush to get him on the field, that increases the odds of a setback. And considering the injury, it may only take one setback to put him on the shelf for the year, if the Lions are already out of the hunt by the time he might otherwise be ready again.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
I own jones and was trying to remain hopeful but this does`nt sound good........
News: The Detroit News reports that unless Lions RB Kevin Jones wows his doctors and training staff with a workout on Thursday, he's going to end up on the Physically Unable to Perform list for the start of the season. That designation forces him out of the first six games of the season and requires activation between Weeks 7 and 10 before being ruled out for the full year. "Right now I don't know where I'm at," Jones said. "My body is telling me to go and get in there and play. But it really isn't my decision. It is up to the doctors and the guys upstairs. The doctors say it is getting better but that it is better to take more time than less time. People can go out there too early and get hurt. They don't want me to go out and re-injure it again."
Analysis: Let's be honest: Jones is not expected to be ready for the start of the 2007 season. Is it still a possibility? Sure, but keep in mind that the Lisfranc injury he suffered was severe and difficult to come back from 100 percent. When he does play again, chances are he won't have the same ability he had before getting hurt. Tatum Bell is the safest bet in Detroit's backfield with T.J. Duckett working with him. When and if Jones returns, he won't be supplanting both of them. Expectations should be kept low, making Jones a reserve Fantasy RB worth a late-round pick in all leagues.
News: The Detroit News reports that unless Lions RB Kevin Jones wows his doctors and training staff with a workout on Thursday, he's going to end up on the Physically Unable to Perform list for the start of the season. That designation forces him out of the first six games of the season and requires activation between Weeks 7 and 10 before being ruled out for the full year. "Right now I don't know where I'm at," Jones said. "My body is telling me to go and get in there and play. But it really isn't my decision. It is up to the doctors and the guys upstairs. The doctors say it is getting better but that it is better to take more time than less time. People can go out there too early and get hurt. They don't want me to go out and re-injure it again."
Analysis: Let's be honest: Jones is not expected to be ready for the start of the 2007 season. Is it still a possibility? Sure, but keep in mind that the Lisfranc injury he suffered was severe and difficult to come back from 100 percent. When he does play again, chances are he won't have the same ability he had before getting hurt. Tatum Bell is the safest bet in Detroit's backfield with T.J. Duckett working with him. When and if Jones returns, he won't be supplanting both of them. Expectations should be kept low, making Jones a reserve Fantasy RB worth a late-round pick in all leagues.
Do you think he'll play next year?
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Sp you're 100% certain he'll play next year. Cool... $5 bet... 1000-1 odds then?
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Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
He seems likely to play no later than week 7 this year.TDavi118 said:
I agree, and when he does come back to play, I hope he goes off and I'll use him for some serious "trade bait" come week 9 or 10 in my dynasty. I know Dunn and Westbrook come back after their respective lis franc injuries, but KJ's injury scares me to death. All it would take is a 300 pound lineman to fall on that foot awkwardly and ot's all over with for KJ.
maxwell1295
Footballguy
I hope he's PUP'd because I will grab him in every league I can in hopes that he will be money down the stretch. He's definitely worth a spot on the roster, especially in leagues where he can be parked on IR...
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Would you please get a football avatar ICON, and I tend to agree with you on this. Jones owners are looking through rose colored glasses right now.[icon] said:
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I'm hoping he doesn't play this season.
Banger
Footballguy
why?
Koya
Footballguy
They seem pretty intent on trying everything to get him back WITHOUT putting him on the PUP (though that is where he is headed imo). With that in mind, unless the Lions are totally out of it (certainly possible) I can't see them not having Jones as their starter second half of the season.I am actually looking to trade for Jones as a stowaway #4 with huge upside for the stretch run. Could be had cheap enough to not hurt if he doesnt come back, or doesnt come back well, this season.
maxwell1295
Footballguy
Probably drafted Tatum Bell...
Banger
Footballguy
aaahhh...
suchislife
Footballguy
Maybe because those of us who have him on our Dynasty team got him dirt cheap and see tremendous value over the next 2,3,4 years. We want him 100% healthy. Its not like we're counting on anything for '07 (or shouldn't be anyway).
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I'm a Jones owner actually, just traded to get him in a large dynasty league. If he doesn't play this year...1. Dynasty - great buy low candidate. My team is being "revamped" for '08 as I also have acquired Mikey Turner and Peterson, so I'd prefer JOnes get healthy for next year as opposed to coming in too soon this year and risking further injury.2. Redraft '07 - if you haven't drafted yet, no harm done. 3. Redraft '08 - his value will be in the tank, and we'll debate him to death next offseason. But I am pretty sure Tatum Bell isn't going to do anything great enough to take Jones role in 2008.
But isn't anyone afraid of KJ reinjuring the foot? I'd rather trade him at the sell high time rather than crossing my fingers hoping he doesn't reinjure it.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
The sell high time was about 2/3 of the way through last year. That ship has sailed.
suchislife
Footballguy
No. KJ's value this year was dirt cheap. I got him for 2% of my salary cap. He's got the potential to be at least top 20 next season and beyond. And a much higher ceiling. If he busts or reinjures his foot, what did I miss out on...a WR5 for this year? Besides, even if he comes back and has a couple of decent games I don't think you'd get enough in return to offset his potential ceiling.Buy low, let him get healthy and hope for the best.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
His recovery is way ahead of schedule and they expect him to fully recover. It's more a matter of when then if. There is a better than average chance (based on local reports) that he will be close to 100% this year.
I still think he starts on PUP, but also think he will be ready to go in week 7.
I would be looking to buy in dynasties.
I still think he starts on PUP, but also think he will be ready to go in week 7.
I would be looking to buy in dynasties.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I reached for Tatum Bell a bit in my drafts this year with the strategy that he's a potential impact player if he suddenly "gets it" in the Martz offense, knowing that I could still grab KJ really late as a handcuff and effectively own the Martz RB all season as a great RB3.
Unfortunately, clowns in both of my leagues reached for KJ far earlier than expected, hanging me out to dry.
Unfortunately, clowns in both of my leagues reached for KJ far earlier than expected, hanging me out to dry.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
:( This is what I've been saying all along.
TheBradyBunch
Footballguy
After many years of watching the Lions, I'm guessing that whatever decision they make on KJ will be the wrong one!
Assuming KJ misses the first half of the season, how do you envision Bell and Duckett being used? Even if Bell runs well at the start, will he still lose goal line duty to Duckett?
Assuming KJ misses the first half of the season, how do you envision Bell and Duckett being used? Even if Bell runs well at the start, will he still lose goal line duty to Duckett?
NYRAGE
Footballguy
He will start on the PUP according to this:
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/conten...NFL&id=2659
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/conten...NFL&id=2659
TheBradyBunch
Footballguy
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2007/...y_on_pup_m.html
Kevin Jones will stay on PUP, miss first five games of the season
by Tom KowalskiThursday August 30, 2007, 1:10 PM
For Lions fans, it's good news, but not great news.
According to a source close to the situation, the surgeon who performed the Lisfranc surgery on the left foot of running back Kevin Jones has agreed with Lions trainers that Jones should start the season on the Physically Unable to Perform list. Dr. Richard Anderson re-examined Jones this afternoon and then discussed the situation with Lions officials.
Because the Lions have a bye week in the sixth week of the season, Jones will only miss five games. Jones will be eligible to return on Oct. 21 in the home game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The medical report on Jones is that his foot is almost completely recovered, but team official want to err on the side of caution and make sure he's in the best possible football condition before he returns to the field. Again, according to a source close to the situation, Jones is expected to return without losing any of his original speed or running ability.
Kevin Jones will stay on PUP, miss first five games of the season
by Tom KowalskiThursday August 30, 2007, 1:10 PM
For Lions fans, it's good news, but not great news.
According to a source close to the situation, the surgeon who performed the Lisfranc surgery on the left foot of running back Kevin Jones has agreed with Lions trainers that Jones should start the season on the Physically Unable to Perform list. Dr. Richard Anderson re-examined Jones this afternoon and then discussed the situation with Lions officials.
Because the Lions have a bye week in the sixth week of the season, Jones will only miss five games. Jones will be eligible to return on Oct. 21 in the home game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The medical report on Jones is that his foot is almost completely recovered, but team official want to err on the side of caution and make sure he's in the best possible football condition before he returns to the field. Again, according to a source close to the situation, Jones is expected to return without losing any of his original speed or running ability.
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Great logic. You've converted me- I now hope that *ALL* of my Dynasty players sit out this season! Come on Westy, don't risk injury, just ride the pine. Maurice Jones-Drew, just save yourself for next season. Ben Roethlisberger, you're only a year removed from a motorcycle accident, give yourself the season off.
I seriously don't get this logic. Kevin Jones isn't going to be on the field until there's minimal chance of re-injury, so I'd rather him get back and start scoring points for me ASAP. The sooner he gets back, the more total fantasy points he's going to score over his remaining career- which, as a Dynasty owner, is pretty much all I worry about.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I appreciate you ignoring some of the facts in my post and following up with a rolleyes smilie. :whoosh:I was saying that for my team - specifically - I was hoping he didn't play. However, for everyone else, regardless of format, the time is ripe to buy low on a player with top-10 upside. Regarding my "Year 2" strategy, Kevin Jones is a PERFECT example.Great logic. You've converted me- I now hope that *ALL* of my Dynasty players sit out this season! Come on Westy, don't risk injury, just ride the pine. Maurice Jones-Drew, just save yourself for next season. Ben Roethlisberger, you're only a year removed from a motorcycle accident, give yourself the season off.I seriously don't get this logic. Kevin Jones isn't going to be on the field until there's minimal chance of re-injury, so I'd rather him get back and start scoring points for me ASAP. The sooner he gets back, the more total fantasy points he's going to score over his remaining career- which, as a Dynasty owner, is pretty much all I worry about.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
Sp you're 100% certain he wont play at all this year. Cool...I think saying you're not sure if he'll play NEXT year is pretty laughable. I'd at least give it a "it's very likely" type response.Sp you're 100% certain he'll play next year. Cool... $5 bet... 1000-1 odds then? :whoosh:
I just don't see the logic, even in your specific situation. I mean, I tend to operate under the assumption that if a player is on the field, there's no risk of exacerbating the injury. I think NFL players are too big of an investment for coaches and owners to risk them like that for a slightly improved shot at another win. I still remember the Eagles trying to prevent Terrell Owens from playing in the SUPERBOWL, the biggest game of the entire year, simply because they DIDN'T believe there was pretty much no chance of him exacerbating his injury. If teams try to hold players out of the biggest game of the year for fear that the injury will worsen, then it only makes sense that they'd be more apt to do so during the mundane regular season games.Operating under that assumption, I don't see any logical reason to want Jones to sit out this entire season. Even if your RB corps consists of Tomlinson, S-Jax, LJ, Gore, and Fast Willie Parker, having KJ playing will, if nothing else, increase his trade value (which in turn increases his value to your team). And if you don't have quite such a pantheon at RB, then having KJ on the field scoring points helps solidify your position. Even if you're counting on him to be a backup, if he plays well enough to make your starter expendable, then once again, you've gotten a net positive value from KJ being on the field.I can see not being too beaten up if Jones sat out the entire season, but I can't see the reasoning behind hoping Jones sits the entire year, regardless of league setup and roster composition, unless you either get points for players going on IR, or unless you believe that coaches will play a player when it is possible for that player to aggravate and worsen his injury.I appreciate you ignoring some of the facts in my post and following up with a rolleyes smilie.I was saying that for my team - specifically - I was hoping he didn't play. However, for everyone else, regardless of format, the time is ripe to buy low on a player with top-10 upside. Regarding my "Year 2" strategy, Kevin Jones is a PERFECT example.
when has he ever been a stud??? Never even made it through a season healthy....
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
He was a top 10 fantasy RB last year before being hurt. That sounds like a stud to me.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I'M PASSIVELY TANKING.I have an RB that should be a star somewhere next year (Turner), the #1 pick who will take a season or two to totally displace Taylor, and receiver who is suspended for 8 games. Having Jones on the PUP will increase my chances of being bad this year, which means I'll have a higher pick in a draft that COULD rival 1999 for QB depth.
az_prof
Footballguy
Anthony, can you explain this news:Lions | Marinelli mum on K. Jones Published Fri Aug 31 1:56:00 a.m. ET 2007 (KFFL) Detroit Lions head coach Rod Marinelli would not say what decision the team was making regarding the status of RB Kevin Jones (foot) Thursday, Aug. 30. "We'll meet Monday. We'll meet after the game like we do each week. We'll have a chance to meet with the doctors, our doctors, the doctors that they've talked to, Kevin (Jones), the trainers, myself, and Matt (Millen). We'll have a chance to sit down and talk," Marinelli said Why won't the team make the official announcement until Monday? Could Kowalski, who reported that KJ is definitely staying on PUP, have spoken too soon? I don't understand this. We had been told there would be a decision after the Thursday meeting with the doctors. We heard. But now Marinelli won't say?Anthony Borbely said:
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Kowalski said that sources stated he would be on PUP. Then he said afterward that the decision had not been made. The decision seems to be trying to nail down a specific time that they think he could be healthy enough to play. The points made by the doctors and trainers is that he needs time to strengthen other areas, such as leg muscles, hip, etc. Basically, to get into football shape. The doctors said his foot is structurally and healing wise, close to 100%. But they have concerns about the other things, and the doctors think they should play it safe and leave him on PUP. It would be for 7 1/2 weeks from today. I think the feeling among coaches, namely Martz is that they should take him off PUP, believing that he may only miss 2-3 games. But I believe he will go on PUP so they can be more sure and strengthen the other muscles during the next 7 weeks.
Kowalski said that sources stated he would be on PUP. Then he said afterward that the decision had not been made. The decision seems to be trying to nail down a specific time that they think he could be healthy enough to play. The points made by the doctors and trainers is that he needs time to strengthen other areas, such as leg muscles, hip, etc. Basically, to get into football shape. The doctors said his foot is structurally and healing wise, close to 100%. But they have concerns about the other things, and the doctors think they should play it safe and leave him on PUP. It would be for 7 1/2 weeks from today. I think the feeling among coaches, namely Martz is that they should take him off PUP, believing that he may only miss 2-3 games. But I believe he will go on PUP so they can be more sure and strengthen the other muscles during the next 7 weeks.
When does he have to be officially on the PUP list? I thought it was this Saturday but maybe I miss understood.
When does he have to be officially on the PUP list? I thought it was this Saturday but maybe I miss understood.
It looks like the team is thinking about keeping KJ off the PUP list and just deactivating him every week like any other injured player. That would tie up a roster spot, but they wouldn't need to follow NFL rules on what a PUP'ed player can or can't do during those six weeks. If this happens, that might get KJ on the field a week or two earlier than if he were barred from any team practices for six weeks, but I still wouldn't expect to see him on the field until after the bye week, at the very earliest.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I believe the deadline is 4pm EST on Saturday.
Every site I have seen has reported that he is "officially" on the PUP. But sounds like from the above that may or may not be that case?
1huskerfan
Footballguy
Kowalski is a tool.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Why is that?
