Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: Defense Rests. Resisting the urge to go full HT and just purge this crapshow of a thread. (9 Viewers)

[squistion]

Nonsense from you, as usual.  Her words and her intent were crystal clear.  In your own little mind you see something different, but what she said wasn’t mischaracterized by Conservatives at all.  Stop being such a hack.  Seriously.

Here again are her exact words, perhaps you should read them before calling someone a hack. Seriously.

Rawlings-Blake clarified her remarks in a Facebook post, writing, "I did not instruct police to give space to protesters who were seeking to create violence or destruction of property. Taken in context, I explained that, in giving peaceful demonstrators room to share their message, unfortunately, those who were seeking to incite violence also had space to operate"

 

[unckeyherb]

What part of that do you think is political vs safety/lack of resources? 

Prior to the last few years I'd lean on safety.  More recently I am convinced that politics plays a part in every damn decision made.  

 

[matuski]

The one who actually killed is the one who would be on trial. I’m not a fan of anyone who brings guns into this and definitely anyone who was rioting, looting etc should go to jail IMO. 

That Rittenhouse was hanging with Proud Boys and flashing this OK sign was what I was reacting to yesterday which is what I think you are referring to as me singling Rittenhouse out. I had forgotten about this until it was brought up yesterday by another poster, it is a horrible look I think we’d agree there. It’s not part of this trial. 

You are hanging onto the pretrial narrative fed to us by the media - I recognize it as I shared it before paying attention to the facts.  Please take a few minutes to do so yourself.

Your narrative does not, at all, matchup with reality.  Not even the reality presented to us by a guy Kyle shot.

 

[The General]

In an attempt to parse context for my own understanding:

If I had to go to work at a business in the middle of this that night, would you be against me carrying a firearm for self defense? 

Great question. I think this is a right you could not take away from someone. 

 

[dkp993]

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in and then there are a bunch of people who sit at home in their pajamas on their keyboard telling you how the world should be.

No kidding you wouldn’t have gone there. I wouldn’t expect the majority of you defending a child molester to stand up for your own self much less your company or your business or your own property.

I won’t use the adjectives that describe you people because it will get me in trouble on this board and I like this place. I’m just happy there are people out there who stand up for what they believe in.

It’s makes us folks who don’t rape little boys feel safer. 

Sure.  But there’s one big piece of information being left out of this, he was a child.  Now if your talking about a 35 year old man, sure, maybe. But an untrained unsupervised 17 yr old boy who admitted on stand that he wanted the AR because it “was cool” is not what this society should want (or be encouraging) deciding to go play vigilante.   If you wouldn’t want your own kid doing it you should want others kids too.  

 

[[icon]]

Great question. I think this is a right you could not take away from someone. 

Okay. Thanks!
 

Next question. 

Do you have an issue with "good samaritans" trying to provide medical care or put out fires in these situations?

With the assumption of their being a lack of official resources (FD, Paramedics) 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Prosecution has asked the Court to instruct the jury on multiple lesser included offenses.  They're arguing it now.  Somewhat interesting for law geeks but probably no one else.  The judge likely won't rule on this today, but may show his leaning somewhat in his comments.

 

[HellToupee]

One source for live streaming of the trial this morning is Youtube.

Correction- this looks like a replay from yesterday.

https://youtu.be/kugIqK6yhoM
 

Rekieta law. This is the stream I’ve been watching. Which one are you using?

 

[Phil Elliott]

https://youtu.be/kugIqK6yhoM
 

This is the stream I’ve been watching. Which one are you using?

Yes I found the stream for today. Thx.

 

[ekbeats]

The timelime is....Kyle walking down the street with his fire extinguisher headed towards the infamous Car Source and saying, "medic, medic"....

Rosenbaum is in the middle of the street with a group of people burning a trash can and hears Kyle coming and understands Kyle is headed towards the Car Source and hurries off to that location ahead of Kyle.

Rosenbaum sees his buddy Josh Liminski and shouts to him, "Let's get him!"  

Rosenbaum hides between the vehicles, Josh Liminski stands on the side of the vehicles and Josh's wife Kelly stands in the middle of the sidewalk so she can force Kyle to run into her husband Josh.  

Kyle is forced to turn the corner as Kelly blocks his path.  Kyle turns into the parking lot right where Josh is standing there with a hand gun in his hand, shouting at Kyle, "you won't do sh@t mother f-er!"   

Kyle stops, drops his fire extinguisher. He hears Rosenbaum running at him from behind shouting, "WAH!  Wah!  WAH!"   

Kyle pivots and quickly escapes the ambush just before Rosenbaum gets to him and the chase begins.

Kyle was a dead man if he did not run.  

Rosenbaum was not a mastermind, but Liminski was a smart psychopath with a lengthy rap sheet who has managed to negotiated his way out of numerous felonies and only had a few misdemeanors on his record.  Liminski was the 'smart' one who knew how to avoid felonies but liked to start trouble. 

You forgot the most important part.  Josh Ziminski fired his gun from behind Kyle while he was running away.  I mean, anyone in their right mind would be absolutely terrified at that moment, especially considering that the child molester and others were threatening him all night,  “Wait till we get you alone…”. Guys - this isn’t even debateable.

 

[GordonGekko]

.....That Rittenhouse was hanging with Proud Boys and flashing this OK sign was what I was reacting to yesterday which is what I think you are referring to as me singling Rittenhouse out. I had forgotten about this until it was brought up yesterday by another poster, it is a horrible look I think we’d agree there. It’s not part of this trial. 

Direct Headline: Survivor of Kyle Rittenhouse Shooting Testifies He Tried to Surrender to Teen

'I HAD TO DO SOMETHING"

Pilar Melendez Updated Nov. 08, 2021 4:47PM ET

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gaige-grosskreutz-testified-in-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-that-he-was-trying-to-surrender-during-deadly-shooting

*****

Speaking of horrible looks, how about a national publication cooking an article from another source then repackaging it with a bait headline that doesn't address the main issues of the controversy.

How does pointing a handgun at someone suddenly and magically become "surrendering"?

The point was to push the shock marketing value of the headline to incite low information voters passing by and passing through. Not the actual truth but a specific agenda based on a specific highly structured strategy built upon lies.

If the MSM can just say and do whatever they want, then there is no longer a public safeguard against open tyranny. Whether you think Rittenhouse is guilty or not guilty and no matter what side of the political aisle you belong, the reality of nearly the entire media establishment showing clear complicity to egregious activism means the death of real freedom.

The crucifixion of actual freedom is a "horrible look"

 

[djmich]

Just circling back to my point that people seemed to be against police reform, but saying that the police kinda suck for these situations and we need the KR's of the world to protect our towns.   

I don't have the answers, but no - I am not suggesting letting towns burn.   Maybe we need to have police less involved in traffic stops and minor drug offenses and instead more training for extreme events like this?   Not 100%, because that might increase the militarization of some depts more that I or others are comfortable with as well.   Maybe we need to review protocols of how cities are reacting to these events?  I am open for ideas, at least ones that don't include having people like KR take the reins for protecting the towns.  

At the end of the day you have to pick your poison...I'm not saying you but there is a lot of fantasyland stuff that has gone on the past 18 months around how policing of citizenry can and should occur.  When fantasy land meets real life you get #### like what happened in Wisconsin.

Ideas:  Well if you don't want to militarize the police (which think in isolation can be a reasonable objective), you need to be ready to execute a plan B when you need to.  Here is a plan B, which was turned down.  Pick a poison, social workers with badges aren't stopping this.

Liberal Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers turned down President Trump’s offer to dispatch additional National Guard troops to the city of Kenosha after the first two nights of rioting.  The Rittenhouse shooting happened on night 3.  The Government failed to protect its citizens so vigilantes filled in the void. 

Here's another Plan B, encourage people to do bad #### and handcuff your local police agencies.  This poison was chosen.

This is pretty funny, the direct quote is there and then in a subsequent clarification she basically contradicted her quote.  That's not called context that's called changing your story.  She changed her story which is all well and good and maybe that's what she really meant...but the results of those few days speak for themselves. 

Context is everything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Rawlings-Blake

In a press conference addressing the riots, Rawlings-Blake stated, "It’s a very delicate balancing act. Because while we try to make sure that they were protected from the cars and other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. And we worked very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to de-escalate".[23] The phrase "we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well" was taken out of context by some conservative-leaning news sources to imply that the mayor was giving permission to protesters to destroy property.[24][25] Some conservative outlets disagreed with that interpretation, however, such as Breitbart News contributor John Sexton, who wrote, "when you look at the full context, it’s clear the Mayor meant something different (though it’s also true she didn’t say it very clearly)".

Rawlings-Blake clarified her remarks in a Facebook post, writing, "I did not instruct police to give space to protesters who were seeking to create violence or destruction of property. Taken in context, I explained that, in giving peaceful demonstrators room to share their message, unfortunately, those who were seeking to incite violence also had space to operate".[26] [...]

 

[The General]

Okay. Thanks!

Next question. 

Do you have an issue with "good samaritans" trying to provide medical care or put out fires in these situations?

With the assumption of their being a lack of official resources (FD, Paramedics) 

Nope.

 

[Phil Elliott]

If you are going to request lessor charges, shouldn't you have the specific evidence to support? Prosecution is generalizing  KR's testimony and judge wants to see specific testimony.

 

[ekbeats]

Why would you be walking into that situation to begin with?

Because it’s your town?  And you have the right to be there?  I just don’t get this line of thought from you guys - at all.  You don’t want to be raped?  Then don’t wear a skirt or go to a bar.  Wtf?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

It seems highly unlikely the judge will instruct the jury on a second-degree reckless endangerment count as the prosecution has requested.  Judge indicated he thinks it would be reversible error if the jury acquitted on 1st degree but convicted on second degree based on the evidence in the record. 

One takeaway from this argument this morning is it seems having the defendant take the stand and testify - a controversial decision - seems extremely important to the judge in this ruling as he has referred repeatedly to Rittenhouse's own testimony in his comments.  He's going to deny this request.

 

[ekbeats]

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in and then there are a bunch of people who sit at home in their pajamas on their keyboard telling you how the world should be.

No kidding you wouldn’t have gone there. I wouldn’t expect the majority of you defending a child molester to stand up for your own self much less your company or your business or your own property.

I won’t use the adjectives that describe you people because it will get me in trouble on this board and I like this place. I’m just happy there are people out there who stand up for what they believe in.

It’s makes us folks who don’t rape little boys feel safer. 

Good post buddy.  Just for that I’ll can my toilet humor (no pun intended)

 

[JAA]

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in and then there are a bunch of people who sit at home in their pajamas on their keyboard telling you how the world should be.

No kidding you wouldn’t have gone there. I wouldn’t expect the majority of you defending a child molester to stand up for your own self much less your company or your business or your own property.

I won’t use the adjectives that describe you people because it will get me in trouble on this board and I like this place. I’m just happy there are people out there who stand up for what they believe in.

It’s makes us folks who don’t rape little boys feel safer. 

Can you clarify a bit on who are "you people"?

 

[Phil Elliott]

It seems highly unlikely the judge will instruct the jury on a second-degree reckless endangerment count as the prosecution has requested.  Judge indicated he thinks it would be reversible error if the jury acquitted on 1st degree but convicted on second degree based on the evidence in the record. 

One takeaway from this argument this morning is it seems having the defendant take the stand and testify - a controversial decision - seems extremely important to the judge in this ruling as he has referred repeatedly to Rittenhouse's own testimony in his comments.  He's going to deny this request.

The argument  that prosecution is giving seems like it should have been part of the original charges. It's almost like double jeopardy but I have no legal expertise.

ETA:  seem to be arguing what the jurie's logic might be. Not sure that applies to if the charges should be included or not.

 

[ekbeats]

If I’m Rittenhouse I don’t make any deals.  He’s got them in the ropes.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

41 minutes ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in and then there are a bunch of people who sit at home in their pajamas on their keyboard telling you how the world should be.

No kidding you wouldn’t have gone there. I wouldn’t expect the majority of you defending a child molester to stand up for your own self much less your company or your business or your own property.

I won’t use the adjectives that describe you people because it will get me in trouble on this board and I like this place. I’m just happy there are people out there who stand up for what they believe in.

It’s makes us folks who don’t rape little boys feel safer. 
Expand  

Good post buddy.  Just for that I’ll can my toilet humor (no pun intended)

Please explain what belief is being stood up for by running downtown to where you expect there will be riot with military style armed weaponry?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The argument  that prosecution is giving seems like it should have been part of the original charges. It's almost like double jeopardy but I have no legal expertise.

I think the state can always ask the jury to be instructed on lesser included offenses based on the evidence after everything is in, as they are doing.  The argument on reckless endangerment regarding McGinnis is really odd.  It now seems the judge might include it.  This judge is very bright, but his demeanor at times is odd.

The argument about Blue-Hoodie Man / Jump-Kick Man has these guys twisted - its oddly fascinating. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Why would you be walking into that situation to begin with?

To protect your business/property.

What he said 

Your property (including your business) is more valuable to you then your life?  Or the rest of it?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Case in point.

Feel free to not include me in your ridiculous posts.  I am not defending a child molester, and Rittenhouse wasn't defending his company/property.   

 

[Phil Elliott]

Your property (including your business) is more valuable to you then your life?  Or the rest of it?

"Give me Liberty or give me death"?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

If I’m Rittenhouse I don’t make any deals.  He’s got them in the ropes.

If he wouldn't make a deal a month ago, there's nothing that's happened the past two weeks that would change that, other than the prosecution making a much better offer.  With a jury involved, nothing is certain.  But I think the state's hands are tied at this point. 

 

[Insein]

Not to dampen anyone's mood for the trial, but round 2 is brewing. The media has been sowing the seeds of hate for a year either by incompetence or intentionally through falsely reporting information to the public. So now if Kyle receives a just decision of not guilty, people are going to say it's rigged. Most already are. 

So now police forces that have been short staffed due to retirements and vaccine mandates are bracing for new waves of violence in every major city. Who knows maybe we even will get another Rittenhouse somewhere and we can do it all again next year. The media is our enemy.

https://rumble.com/vp3srf-police-departments-brace-for-rioting-following-rittenhouse-trial-conclusion.html

 

[matuski]

Your property (including your business) is more valuable to you then your life?  Or the rest of it?

Than.

This is a weird angle.  You are acknowledging the threat is coming from the rioters, but your criticism is aimed at those wanting to defend themselves from it.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I think the state can always ask the jury to be instructed on lesser included offenses based on the evidence after everything is in, as they are doing.  The argument on reckless endangerment regarding McGinnis is really odd.  It now seems the judge might include it.  This judge is very bright, but his demeanor at times is odd.

The argument about Blue-Hoodie Man / Jump-Kick Man has these guys twisted - its oddly fascinating. 

Sounds like judge and prosecution are trying to do the jury's job.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How many mayors and other relevant local leaders are re-elected after peaceful protests turn into out of control riots?

This isn't a gotcha question to prove a point but a question which I think would have an informative answer but I don't know how to feasibly get to that answer short of taking on the research project.  Not asking anyone else to do the research either, but if this community had a link they know about it would be great.  I'd guess that more often than not that the political fortunes are greatly harmed but I could also talk myself into some rallying around a leader  type of end results instead.

I have no doubt that is part of the calculation, but I don't think we can pretend that safety and resources are also not part of the equation.  

 

[Witz]

That people think this post is funny is exactly the problem with this country. 

Or it could be that folks who actually believe this drivel are the problem with this country, 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Not to dampen anyone's mood for the trial, but round 2 is brewing. The media has been stowing the seeds of hate for a year either by incompetence or intentionally through falsely reporting information to the public. So now if Kyle receives a just decision of not guilty, people are going to say it's rigged. Most already are. 

So now police forces that have been short staffed due to retirements and vaccine mandates are bracing for new waves of violence in every major city. Who knows maybe we even will get another Rittenhouse somewhere and we can do it all again next year. The media is our enemy.

https://rumble.com/vp3srf-police-departments-brace-for-rioting-following-rittenhouse-trial-conclusion.html

I don’t see it. The people who were shot are white

 

[Insein]

I don’t see it. The people who were shot are white

Some people STILL think the people he shot were black. 

 

[The General]

There are people in this world who stand up for what they believe in and then there are a bunch of people who sit at home in their pajamas on their keyboard telling you how the world should be.

No kidding you wouldn’t have gone there. I wouldn’t expect the majority of you defending a child molester to stand up for your own self much less your company or your business or your own property.

I won’t use the adjectives that describe you people because it will get me in trouble on this board and I like this place. I’m just happy there are people out there who stand up for what they believe in.

It’s makes us folks who don’t rape little boys feel safer. 

Did Rittenhouse do a background check on this guy? He just shot another dope who injected himself into this situation.

I don't want a naive kid running around my neighborhood with an AR "protecting me". Thanks in advance internet saviors!

 

[ekbeats]

Please explain what belief is being stood up for by running downtown to where you expect there will be riot with military style armed weaponry?

I really have to explain this to you?  Why aren’t you questioning all the protesters putting their lives in danger?  If I didn’t have a son who still needed me I’d be out there protecting people and property as well.  There are some things worth fighting for.  When these towns get burnt to the ground there is real suffering involved.  It’s not just a building that burns down.  That is someone’s livelihood - someone’s life’s work.  There are other ancillary effects.  I work for an insurance company.  We lost a lot of money in those riots and that directly impacted my bonus.  Probably cost me $25k.  But that’s ancillary - the bigger concern is the damage done to communities - where people live and work.  Also the loss of life.  25 people were killed in the 2020 riots.

In the end it doesn’t matter.  I have a right to be there and I have a right to bear arms to protect myself.  End of story.

 

[beef]

The media is our enemy.

It would be nice if the country turned off Fox, CNN, MSNBC at night, but I doubt that will ever happen.  

Thanks to @CletiusMaximus and other legal experts here I don't feel the need to have to listen to or read the far-sided opinion pieces.  

 

[ekbeats]

Not to dampen anyone's mood for the trial, but round 2 is brewing. The media has been sowing the seeds of hate for a year either by incompetence or intentionally through falsely reporting information to the public. So now if Kyle receives a just decision of not guilty, people are going to say it's rigged. Most already are. 

So now police forces that have been short staffed due to retirements and vaccine mandates are bracing for new waves of violence in every major city. Who knows maybe we even will get another Rittenhouse somewhere and we can do it all again next year. The media is our enemy.

https://rumble.com/vp3srf-police-departments-brace-for-rioting-following-rittenhouse-trial-conclusion.html

100% spot on.  Enemies of the people - all of them (including Fox)

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Than.

This is a weird angle.  You are acknowledging the threat is coming from the rioters, but your criticism is aimed at those wanting to defend themselves from it.

I am asking why would anyone grab a gun and run into what is expected to be a riot.  The answers so far are to "stand up to beliefs" and to "protect a business or property".  I don't get the cost-benefit analysis where running to protect a vulnerable property (even if part of one's business) is worth the risk to life and limb or the liability that would follow from actually protecting that business.  Sure spend the day removing everything of value. shutting of the gas pumps, etc. to lessen the risk but I don't see much point in sticking around if you don't live there.  Not much good can come from it and a whole lot of bad.  "Its my town" or "its my right" are just platitudes that add no real value to the benefits side.   I also see no belief here actually being expressed.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I really have to explain this to you?  Why aren’t you questioning all the protesters putting their lives in danger?  If I didn’t have a son who still needed me I’d be out there protecting people and property as well.  There are some things worth fighting for.  When these towns get burnt to the ground there is real suffering involved.  It’s not just a building that burns down.  That is someone’s livelihood - someone’s life’s work.  There are other ancillary effects.  I work for an insurance company.  We lost a lot of money in those riots and that directly impacted my bonus.  Probably cost me $25k.  But that’s ancillary - the bigger concern is the damage done to communities - where people live and work.  Also the loss of life.  25 people were killed in the 2020 riots.

In the end it doesn’t matter.  I have a right to be there and I have a right to bear arms to protect myself.  End of story.

How many times do people have to post that they think all the people were in the wrong? it's just people like you trying to frame it in a Rittenhouse vs rioters way.  I say punish them all.  

Also, is this the Rittenhouse thread or the riots thread? 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I am asking why would anyone grab a gun and run into what is expected to be a riot.  The answers so far are to "stand up to beliefs" and to "protect a business or property".  I don't get the cost-benefit analysis where running to protect a vulnerable property (even if part of one's business) is worth the risk to life and limb or the liability that would follow from actually protecting that business.  Sure spend the day removing everything of value. shutting of the gas pumps, etc. to lessen the risk but I don't see much point in sticking around if you don't live there.  Not much good can come from it and a whole lot of bad.  "Its my town" or "its my right" are just platitudes that add no real value to the benefits side.   I also see no belief here actually being expressed.

Some people believe in the things they say and take action:

-Some people protest.

-Some people defend their property….

Most people sit at home and wonder what are these people doing outside my home?! 

 

[ekbeats]

There are dozens of far more biased irrational folks on your side including you.  I don't fall for bullcrap arguments like you.  I didn't fall from bullcrap from Trump.  My opinions are based on facts and will change if facts change.  People who still think Kyle went there to kill people are bigots. Period. 

Dude - you are in a whole different league than those two.  Don’t play down to the competition.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Your property (including your business) is more valuable to you then your life?  Or the rest of it?

My home and livelihood are worth more to me than some idiot  trying to burn them down

I hope I’m never faced with the decision 

 

[ekbeats]

I don’t see it. The people who were shot are white

Biden characterized Rittenhouse as a white supremicist.  There are a lot of low information voters on the Left who don’t stray outside their bubble.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I don`t even know who was shot.  Were any black people shot?

 

[[icon]]

Nope.

Gotcha.
 

So is the issue with those good samaritans carrying, or just Rittenhouse? Or is it the open Carry that you don't like? 
 

again, just curious whether the line is… To be clear I'm not necessarily a big fan of open carry either, even if it is within rights.

 

[ekbeats]

How many times do people have to post that they think all the people were in the wrong? it's just people like you trying to frame it in a Rittenhouse vs rioters way.  I say punish them all.  

Also, is this the Rittenhouse thread or the riots thread? 

Was Josh Ziminski convicted of any crimes?

 

[unckeyherb]

I don`t even know who was shot.  Were any black people shot?

Not sure if you are asking tongue in cheek but no.  There were only white people involved in this incident.  Which makes me question why media, pundits and the President himself referred to Rittenhouse as a white supremecist; ok hand gestures notwithstanding.

 

[ekbeats]

Not sure if you are asking tongue in cheek but no.  There were only white people involved in this incident.  Which makes me question why media, pundits and the President himself referred to Rittenhouse as a white supremecist; ok hand gestures notwithstanding.

Biden referred yo Rittenhouse as a white supremicist BEFORE the ok hand gesture took place.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Not sure if you are asking tongue in cheek but no.  There were only white people involved in this incident.  Which makes me question why media, pundits and the President himself referred to Rittenhouse as a white supremecist; ok hand gestures notwithstanding.

Not tongue in cheek.  Actually glad as there should not be any riots if found not guilty.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Some people defend their property….

How would you effectively defend your property after two nights of rioting prior to the expected third night?  Grabbing a gun and running into the situation doesn't seem like the most productive way to accomplish this.  .